BlogHer - gender identity - Comments

Pride of being a man

Fred00 — Tue, 10 Nov 2009 11:03:26 -0600

Why is it that women on the most part can see and understand the possibilities of a youngster being given opportunities to learn as from being given a doll, or given things of the opposite sex - female, to use these opportunities to 'use' and to 'learn' from? That there is no fear of what may happen to a boy, to his phsyic, or his mentality, or his gender? But men on the other hand, seem to be afraid, or are gun-ho in trying to 'make' the boy a he-man by giving him guns, trucks, baseball bats, etc., instead of letting the child decide somewhat what he wants to play with, or having the child be open to girls things? Women seem to have an intuitive mind, and seem not to be so fearful of 'what a child may become', instead of men being fear of what a child has 'become'! Maybe it comes down to, that a man is too proud of being a male (though nothing initially wrong with that), but it overbears the child and his feelings to a point where the child is not allowed to feel any emotions. He is not allowed to cry (Men do not cry), is not soft and tender, cannot express love, is not considerate of others and mainly the so-called weaker-sex, females. I think myself, that a real man knows these things. These though, are usually taught by the mother!

William's Doll

Lisen Stromberg — Mon, 09 Nov 2009 22:18:02 -0600

There is a wonderful children's book about a young boy who wants a doll. His father is resistant and his brother teases him but his grandmother understands . She buys him a doll so he can practice being a father. The book is called William's Doll by Charlotte Zolotow. It's a classic.

"The first problem for all of us, women and men, is not to learn but to unlearn." - Gloria Steinem

Lisen Stromberg

A boy who liked girls toys and didn't know what gender was

Fred00 — Mon, 09 Nov 2009 15:29:05 -0600

I notice I may be the only male here on this website. But I found the articles very interesting and found the things comparable to my own life as a child and now as an adult. One of the earliest experiences I had when I was young, was of being given a doll. I do not know who it was that gave this to me, other than it was a neighbor. We were living in New York City on the east side. I was happy in receiving this gift. My mother did not seem to mind at all. In fact, said I could take it with us when we went out to the store. We wrapped it up, so that it wouldn't get cold. Then we went to the green-grocer. My mother said, while she was looking for vegetables, I could look for a box suitable for to put the doll in as a bed. I found one. An old orange box. It fit perfectly. We then went home. My Dad came home and saw the doll. He took it away and said I shouldn't have that. That was the last I saw of it!!! I had lost my gift! I didn't know why!

I do not see all the problem of trying to either be a man or trying to be a woman. Women, these days can wear either women's clothing or men's. Society does not bat an eye when they do this. But with men, it is looked down on, when a man wants to wear a skirt, or have a handbag, or even wear a pink shirt. Why?? I am so glad to see women here on this website who are open-minded. By the way, I am still young at heart, and still act much like a kid. (I hope I never lose this!), and I still do not see any gender differences. I appreciate when boys can wear girls clothing, or be able to play with girls toys. Thank you parents or mothers who are open-minded like this. I wish I could know you personally as friends. It would fill the void in my heart of the times and of the things I missed when I was growing up!

I know a boy who likes my daughter's toys.

Rita Arens — Fri, 04 Sep 2009 11:50:25 -0500

One of my friend's sons used to be very into playing with dolls, dressing up in gorgeous gowns and coloring with pink crayons, but unlike Jen's daughter, he never thought inside he was really a girl. He just really liked tactile things, and "girl" things do tend to be flashier. He also liked cars and trucks and things that go vroom. When he came to our house? The siren song of the dress-up clothes was just really hard to resist. She's got some good ones.

My daughter noticed he likes her toys. It's brought up some interesting talks between my daughter and me. She wants to make sure he is invited to watch her dance in The Nutcracker. The part that bothered me was that she said, "He likes girl things." So then that prompted the conversation about how girls do not exclusively own the domain of dolls just because Mattel markets them that way. And then she started talking about how she likes Hot Wheels and the conversation moved on to how marketing works, and I'm sure she stopped listening, especially when I got into the part about demographic segmenting.

When we see my friend's son, I make sure I bring some good stuff he would really like. And I'll be inviting him for sure to The Nutcracker.

Rita Arens writes at Surrender Dorothy and BlogHer and is the editor of Sleep is for the Weak.

Fearful of the feminine

Southerngirl — Wed, 02 Sep 2009 09:20:02 -0500

I think that statmet seems to say it all. It seems that even women are afraid of being too girly. I am one of those women. Having a very curvy figure has led me to loudly proclaim that I am not a girly or frilly girl. There is no hidding the fact that I am a girl but being girly has somehow become an insult. My sisters tease that I got the body I did because God knew I was not going to decorate it so he need to make sure everyone knew who I was. At forty I am still akward in accepting praise for my looks or my clothes but I am Ok with praise for ability. I am not sure when we decided that feminine was bad, but it seems we have.

Michelle

I blog at http://www.mommycan.blogspot.com/

Feminine = worse

Suzanne Reisman — Wed, 02 Sep 2009 08:28:06 -0500

I totally agree with you. Because "masculine" activities are admirable, we love when girls take on those "go getter" qualities. It's also OK for girls to be engaged in "feminine" things, like playing with dolls, since they are girls. It's natural for girls to be interested in "boys'" activities since they are obviously better, but dear God! Why on earth would a boy want to do "girl" things unless there is something wrong with him (i.e. - he's gay).

I'm glad that feminism opened doors for girls to get out of restrictive gender roles. Getting traditionally "feminine" activities to be respected as much as "masculine" ones is something that we have to work on. But I want to see it happen. Gender and sex are not dichotomies, and neither should be "better" than the other. Both have enormous value.

Suzanne Reisman, Contributing Editor - Feminism & Gender
Campaign for Unshaved Snatch (CUSS) & Oth

i agree

mashadutoit — Wed, 02 Sep 2009 03:55:26 -0500

Suzanne, I want to echo your concern. I dont agree with this statement:

The feminist revolution appears to have successfully helped foster an environment that makes it "cool" to be a girl.

I might be misunderstanding things here, but it seems to me that the OP is saying that we are easier on girls than boys, because we accept girls doing masculine things, but not vice versa. In fact what seems to be happening is that we value the masculine in boys and girls, and are fearful of the feminine, particularly when it is expressed in the behaviour of boys.

My friend's son

Suzanne Reisman — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 23:22:41 -0500

My friend's son is just like Lisen's. His parents are amazing and encourage him to explore what interests him. Their parents? Like Lisen's, not accepting at all.

It is horrifying how much we denigrate girls' interests - when they are pursued by boys. I think the world will be a better place with more parents like Lisen and my friend. Thanks for reprinting this article.

Suzanne Reisman, Contributing Editor - Feminism & Gender

Campaign for Unshaved Snatch (CUSS) & Other Rants

I am alwasy baffled when

ItsyBitsyKC — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 20:04:10 -0500

I am alwasy baffled when people are concerned when a young child is not acting within his/her gender roles. Since gender roles are constructed and imposed by our culture, why would a young child naturally be born with knowing how to act based on gender? I'm glad you stood your ground; there is nothing more sad than constraining a child's curiosity and development because it's the "wrong" direction. Let a kid enjoy innocence and the lack of social constraints - it's a luxury that may not last forever as time passes.

My fiance still laughs about how he used to love playing My Little Pony - his parents remembers being baffled why people felt the need to express their concerns over him enjoying a "girl" toy- he says he was too young to understand the funny looks, but it never upset him or stop him from playing however he wanted.

Michelle, An update, one

Lisen Stromberg — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 17:58:10 -0500

Michelle,

An update, one that would really do justice to the journey my son, my family, and I have travelled is worthy of a memoir. The short answer is that my son, now fifteen, is becoming the kind of man i would like to meet in the world - engaged, aware, and conscious of the constraints of societal pressure to be true to yourself and still manage to "fit in." I couldn't be more proud of him.

Lisen

Jen, I could not agree with

Lisen Stromberg — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 17:52:44 -0500

Jen,

I could not agree with you more. I believe children should be supported to explore in all ways. Isn't that the essence of childhood? For some children, their gender exploration is more than just curiosity but a deep reflection of the knowledge that they were born into the "wrong" gender. The challenge we face as parents is to know the difference and to support our children into adulthood and selfhood that allows them to reach their fullest selves. Your daughter has clarity and the support of parents who understand and respect her clarity. She is lucky to have you.

Lisen

Update

Southerngirl — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 10:12:51 -0500

I would love an update on your son. I am going through the same thing with my 8 year old. I thought he was just growing out of it but I walked into the room a few days ago and he was playing with a barbie that he threw down when I walked in. Now I am wondering if all the fuss has just taught him to hide. I really do not want that but we have got to get through elementary school and family functions.

Michelle

I blog at http://www.mommycan.blogspot.com/

Gender Spectrum

ecochicorganizer — Mon, 31 Aug 2009 19:35:40 -0500

I am someone who knows, because I am the mother Rita wrote about. Your article talks about one aspect on the gender spectrum; however, I think it sounds closed minded not to respect children who are at other areas of that spectrum. Your criticism of Rita's article sounds harsh.

Everyone has a different and unique situation. My daughter is not a cross dresser. She is not gender fluid or gender variant. She identifies as a girl inside and we support and embrace that.

Jen

Agree, sort of....

Denise — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 09:17:10 -0500

I'm in agreement with you on "it depends on how they feel about it". There are of course trans men who would be ok with being included on such a list, just as there are M2Fs who would be ok with being on a Hot Femme Men list.

But, because we live in a society that doesn't have a good grasp on what gender identity is or what it means to be trans, the community is very sensitive to anything that looks like it isn't recognizing the fact that trans men are MEN.

If we can get to that point, then I don't think the community would have pushed back on Sinclair about the inclusion of the trans guys.

:-)

~Denise
BlogHer Community Manager

Flamingo House Happenings

It is grey

Denise — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 08:50:27 -0500

I think as long as you know that it's grey, then you understand all you need to. What is the hard part is trying to figure out how to accept that grey and how to embrace it.

~Denise
BlogHer Community Manager

Flamingo House Happenings