BlogHer - sex education - Comments

I agree.

abgirl — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 02:43:23 -0500

I posted my comment before reading yours, but I totally agree. Masturbation is a private thing that everyone discovers on their own. Certainly don't tell your kids that it's wrong or dirty, but there's another extreme too. I'm not a prude for thinking that I have no place giving my (hypothetical) 14 year old daughter a vibrator and I'm not going to feel bad for being uncomfortable with the idea. It's just a very private, intimate thing.

I was comfortable talking to my mom about most things too, but I could never imagine talking about masturbation. I don't think that's a bad thing. The aim that Dr. Berman was talking about seemed to be to make sure your teenage girl is confident, in control of her body and not going to seek acceptance from boys by being pressured into sex. My mom, and you, must have found another way to do that because that's certainly how I was and how I'm sure your daughters were. :)

Reality check...

abgirl — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 02:26:43 -0500

First off, I don't have kids and I probably won't ever have them, so I don't want to seem presumptuous. But I'm also 20 years old and not far away from being a kid/teen myself so I think I can speak with a reasonable perspective on a touchy issue like this one.

My mom did a great job talking to me about feelings and making sure I had a realistic view on love and relationships, and let me know I could ask her about anything I wanted. But as far as the practical aspects of things went, i.e. protection from pregnancy and STDs, she didn't cover it, and I quite frankly didn't need my mother for that. Perhaps we have better sex-ed in Canada or something, but I received lots of reliable information from school about safe sex. I also learned about it in magazines like Seventeen and the other teen magazines my mother bought for me. It was on TV. It was in pamphlets at the doctor's office. It was on the internet. It was in books at the library. It was quite frankly in my face everywhere I went. Lack of reliable information is not an issue here.

Of course, teen pregnancy and STDs certainly ARE an issue in my area of the world, but I'm telling you--it's not a lack of education or information. Kids know that if they don't use a condom correctly bad things can happen, they know about birth control, they know the morning after pill is available if something went wrong, they know they can get tested for STDs, etc. If there is an issue with information it's that kids are so oversaturated with it that they're not paying attention anymore.

The problem is what has always been the problem with teenagers: they think they're invincible. Something like getting pregnant, or contracting HIV may happen to other people but it won't happen to THEM. Laziness is a factor too. And then there's the issue of girls purposely getting pregnant, which is happening all over the place, but of course that's another blog post and a couple of books on top of that.

Now, as far as masturbation, well, same thing. My mom didn't talk about masturbating or encourage me to do it, but the magazines I read, the information I read on the Internet, and the TV shows I saw sure did. I don't think my mom could have told me anything about masturbation or vibrators at 14 or 15 that I didn't already know. It would have been a totally pointless exercise in awkwardness.

It's all well and good to go on Oprah and talk about giving your daughter a vibrator or to write a blog post about it. But I fully agree with the commenter Atena: get over your ego as a parent and realize that you don't control the information your daughter gets nor how she thinks about it. Someone else is likely teaching your daughter about masturbation and vibrators and loving her body as we speak. She'd probably be mortified if you did it and the conversation wouldn't accomplish anything. For Pete's sake don't needlessly embarrass your kids.

Wow

ShoreBookworm — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 16:03:35 -0500

Wow again. On just so many levels.

I just came to this thread from the bump it got today and I am really glad I did, it is so thought provoking.

My first reaction is shock at how much passion (no pun intended) this subject induced. I can see it being somewhat controversial and arguable, but I am truly surprised by the level of contentiousness the discussion rose to. That is rather disappointing actually. Sexuality and reproductive responsibility are such crucial subjects for our society. Hearing each other and listening to different points of view can be so valuable to our growth as a culture. 'Cause we're not doing such a spectacular job right now, are we?

Then there is my personal reaction. Personal, as in right for ME, not something you have to take and apply to your own life. And not such an outlandish point of view that I am likely to do any great harm to the world by it.

Personally, by my own standards and the boundaries that exist in our little family, graphically discussing the merits of masturbation is not what would work for us.

I have been a single mother since I was widowed when my four children were young. I discussed sex with my sons (the older two) as best I could. They were around when their sisters were born at home. They grew up with me nursing their siblings. It was all very matter-of-fact. I was a childbirth educator, comfortable with the subjct in general, but I discussed sexuality mostly with adult students, not my own teenage sons. They were not comfortable. I was clumsy. But we muddled through without too much damage done. Love, humor and good intentions go a long way. :)

The boys were ten years older, so by the time the subject came up with the girls it was just the three of us. They also had grown up around nursing mothers and birthing. I believed that modesty was form of manners in one's household, but that did not mean the body was hidden or shameful in anyway. We were comfortable in talking about reproduction, menstruation and they tell me now ( they are grown women, 21 and 23) they always felt they could ask me anything.

Exploring our sexuality can be a joy, but I feel it is a private and personal one. I really believe that my daughters can fully enjoy their sexuality without having had anything graphically modelled by me. Sex is a pleasure. It is not too far of a stretch to consider that sex with oneself can be likened to other pleasurable things, a bubble bath, an ice cream sundae, a movie. I don't presume to tell my girls how to enjoy those things, why would masturbation be any different? Some things you have explore on your own and make your own mind up about.

Even as I type that I can see giving any of those things for a birthday or holiday gift, but not a vibrator. Maybe I am talking our of both sides of my mouth. But I prefer to think it is because there is just a line between public pleasure and private pleasure. Not shameful. Private.

So another 'wow'. I did not think I would have so much to say about masturbation on the World Wide Web. lol But there you have it.

My final two cents: chill out everyone! Be respectful. Listen. We have a lot to learn from one another. :)

Marie

www.nourishourselves.blogspot.com

www.theshorebookworm.blogspot.com

Or worse than pregnant

Nordette — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 11:38:40 -0500

Teens are contracting AIDS and other sexually-transmitted diseases because they have unprotected sex and don't have the information they need. Thank you, Bill.

Nordette Adams is a BlogHer CE & you can find her other stuff through Her 411.

Use It or Lose It

Bill Cammack — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 07:06:39 -0500

Basically, people that don't educate their kids about sex are throwing them to the wolves. "The Streets" are just waiting for more people to have fun with and/or take advantage of.

It might have made sense (probably not, though) back in the 1950's to NOT educate your kids, because all of the media was controlled. There was no "cable television" or sex sites on the internet or MTV and BET's latest "Sex on the dance floor" videos for kids to watch and become either interested in or curious about.

At this point in time, whatever you don't teach your kids, they're gonna learn in the street. You're better off feeling uncomfortable and talking to them NOW than finding out your kid's pregnant or got some other kid pregnant a few months or years from now.

~ Bill
I blog at billcammack.com

What correlation are we supposed to assume between

She Who — Wed, 29 Apr 2009 08:53:20 -0500

"completed their education" and "clever"...particularly in an age range 18-49?

#researchfail :D

http://www.blogher.com/blog/she-who

And if I don't have trouble?

shelleybean2u — Wed, 29 Apr 2009 08:06:58 -0500

So if I don't have any trouble, does that mean I'm not so clever?

A Doctor Talks to 9-12 year olds!

Liz Henry — Tue, 28 Apr 2009 14:02:08 -0500

Wow, you made me laugh so hard, because I had this booklet! My parents left the 5-8 year old one around for me when i was 5, but I had already read the one for 9-12 year olds, I think in the doctor's office during an appointment. It wasn't very informative, but it also wasn't awful.

We have something else in common - being embarrassing. I recall my mom when I got my period, saying "Do you need me to show you how to put in a tampon?". I rolled my eyes and said super sarcastically, "Moommmm! I'm 15 years old, I sure as hell know by now how to put things into my vagina!" Which was hilarious, but in retrospect, I regret it because it was my mom's attempt to at least talk with me about that kind of stuff and I instantly shot it down with heavy sarcasm!

-----------------
Liz Henry
lizzard@bookmaniac.net
Contributing Editor, World and Latin America

Catalog or gift certificates might work

Liz Henry — Tue, 28 Apr 2009 13:56:03 -0500

I agree there has got to be some way to mention as a parent that masturbation is a good thing and possible to do different ways, without being creepy about it. One possible way to get the idea across is to get your kid a tasteful catalogue of some kind. Good Vibrations or something of that sort would get the idea across. I wonder if they make, or would consider making, booklets that are a combination of sex ed and catalogue for teenagers, that is as non-embarrassing as possible?

-----------------
Liz Henry
lizzard@bookmaniac.net
Contributing Editor, World and Latin America

Gotcha. :)

She Who — Thu, 23 Apr 2009 22:35:11 -0500

I get pretty passionate, can you tell? ;) I didn't mean to imply that questioning the fear was invalid. If I seemed to, I apologise. It just suddenly struck me that we seemed to be 'siding against mothers' (including Gayle) and stuff like that sets off my alarms.

Tough....um, stuff, these isms. Never quite sure where they're hiding. ;)

Thanks for the discussion, all. I've found it very interesting. :)

http://www.blogher.com/blog/she-who

I can see you have a lot on

Nordette — Thu, 23 Apr 2009 19:04:07 -0500

I can see you have a lot on your mind. I bolded the last sentence of my response so you'd see that I get what you're saying, I just think it's not fair to say that the questioning of the fear is invalid.

Nordette: BlogHer CE and NOLA Lit Examiner. Blogs @ WSATA & UMBOP.

Of COURSE parents, and particularly mothers

She Who — Thu, 23 Apr 2009 18:57:02 -0500

are nervous about sex, and about talking about sex. Look how they're held responsible, even by you.

Oprah's a great example. She wasn't sexually assaulted because no one gave her a vibrator. She wasn't even sexually assaulted because no one gave her perpetrator a vibrator. She was assaulted as an act of violence and control. She was NINE.

I'm all about talking to kids about sex. I was doing the condom on a carrot thing when we were still referring to AIDS as "that gay cancer" , and believe me, darn few of us were discussing it at all. I was trying to get funding for AIDS during the Reagan administration, with the Gay Rights National Lobby. When the poster above talked about the college class with the speculum, my first reaction was 'I wonder if that was me.'

But my question is why these fears are 'unreasonable'. I personally think parents aren't scared enough, sometime. People think "Well, everyone does it, it must be okay." People think, "They're telling them at school." People think, "I'm going to sound stupid." They're scared about the wrong things. Good education doesn't belittle their fears, but we have to keep it in perspective. It's not a bow to patriarchy to acknowledge that mom's aren't calling the shots on some of this, anymore than it's a bow to racism to acknowledge its impact.

In the world we're in, letting the world outside tell your kids about sex is stupid, and potentially dangerous. So the fear is appropriate, and ordinate, and may be poorly assigned. But moms have insight, as well as fear. Beyond the idea "talk to your kids about sex" are a million tiny details about each child, how they learn, and when. When you hear moms expressing reservation about an approach and it's supposedly all about "fear" I'm concerned that the energy for that is not respectful of Motherwit.

It's a line to walk.

http://www.blogher.com/blog/she-who

Not an asummption. Parents are nervous about this topic.

Nordette — Thu, 23 Apr 2009 16:51:04 -0500

We're talking about this in terms of Oprah because that's who most recently put the conversation on the front page and in our living rooms. The survey her magazine conducted with Seventeen Magazine and which I linked to in the post is another indication that mothers are not talking to their daughters as much as they think or anybody else may think that they are.

But fear of the talk is not restricted to the newest generation;
three-quarters of the moms in the survey said they never had the talk
with their own mothers either.
(See story about study here.)

I don't think it matters that Gayle's children are grown or that Oprah does not have children. Oprah, the victim of childhood sexual assault, can have an opinion on talking to children just like anyone else because at one point she herself was child. Dr. Berman has sons but she is a female and a doctor who's done research.

But research and training aside, the people who watched the show saw the fear on the faces of mothers in the audience, not just fear, but strong resistance. Sometimes it's good to challenge fears. If folks hadn't challenged fear we'd still be in caves.

I don't think its patriarchal to wonder if these mothers, including me, are being unreasonable, especially in light of the growing number of teenage pregnancies and AIDs cases. I'm thinking of the saying that "Insanity is defined as doing the same thing over and over and expecting different resutls."

If it's fear that's holding mothers back from speaking to their children about sex or helping their daughters to value and know more about their own bodies, then mothers need to address that fear and the root of it.

In fact, it could be argued that the patriarchal view of sex conditions us to be afraid to talk about sex; consequently, to assume fear of the sex talk is reasonable is itself a bow to patriarchy.

We may very well have to say that when it comes to sex it's not "Mother knows best" nor "Father knows best." Many parents seem to be woefully uncomfortable about talking over sex with children of both genders and that discomfort appears to be doing us all a disservice.

All that said, I do think that we should question "experts" and not assume they know what's best for our own children.

Nordette: BlogHer CE and NOLA Lit Examiner. Blogs @ WSATA & UMBOP.

You've got relatives though so you don't escape

Nordette — Thu, 23 Apr 2009 16:07:06 -0500

Can't get off so easy. Don't be surprised if a relative's child ask you a big sex question and suddenly you're at a loss of words. LOL. Somebody's persistent kid is gonna getcha.

Thank you, Maria, and I hope you saw what I said about you under Noblesse Oblige at my WSATA blog.

Nordette: BlogHer CE and NOLA Lit Examiner. Blogs @ WSATA & UMBOP.

Well, I don't know Gayle from a hole in the wall,

She Who — Thu, 23 Apr 2009 16:02:08 -0500

and I didn't know she was a mother, until this post.

So I read up on her. She has two grown children, one of them a daughter. Oprah, as we know, has dogs, and Dr. Berman has 3 small sons, oldest about 11.

I think it's really interesting that our assumption seems to be "mothers are unreasonably fearful about sex talk" and the other folks are right, rather than "Gee. Pretty patriarchal to be ignoring the voice of mothers who might reasonably be expected to KNOW (as you point out) that these issues are tricky." ;)

http://www.blogher.com/blog/she-who