BlogHer - culture - Comments

A simpler time.

Leighbra — Wed, 07 Oct 2009 15:11:56 -0500

I think that your colleague has Gone with the Wind confused with reality. I know several Southern Belles that can't separate their white petticoat dreams with the suffering that really existed.

Hell yeah, I want to prance around a big ol' mansion all day in pretty dresses, while handsome men court me. Too bad even though I am a white woman, I wasn't born into the southern slave-owning nobility, and would likely be pretty far down the ladder.

What's extra maddening to me is that that "simpler" time also meant they couldn't vote or own land themselves.

What the hell are they wishing for, exactly?

You're right Gena, we need to spread our understanding behind the meaning of the rebel flag. It doesn't mean Scarlett O'Hara's petticoats and it sure as hell doesn't mean Daisy Duke's cut off shorts.

I Try To Stand In Factual Truth

Gena Haskett — Sun, 27 Sep 2009 11:21:53 -0500

History is the documentation of a people, the artifacts and the experiences that make a culture unique. The actual Confederate flag is a part of that shared American history seen from two different perspectives. I, nor any educated person, would want to hide or dismiss the reasons and the cultural connections to the original flag.

I do believe in the right of free speech and expression. But not in advocating violence against another person or group of people. That is what the Rebel flag represents.

It is getting harder to hear moderate conservatives expressing their points of view when you have others parading for the cameras wrapped in the Rebel flag.

The frings and extremists have taken over the public discourse. I don't know if there are a body of moderate conservatives that are willing to stand and say thiat this is way beyond what is acceptable.

Good people on both sides must continue to try understand otherwise, well we do have history to demonstate what can happens to use when we don't.

Gena - Out On The Stoop

This is an utterly

Norma156 — Sun, 27 Sep 2009 09:25:56 -0500

This is an utterly fascinating post. Thank you for the wonderful research. To my shame, I thought that the "Rebel" flag was the Confederate flag and I'm glad to be set straight on this.

There is no excuse for waving the Rebel flag anywhere...in demonstrations, public buildings, in front of your home. It's akin to waving the Swastika. And, just as hateful. The connotations it carries with it are clear and unambiguous.

I appreciate your trying to understand the conservative point of view. It's one of the reasons I stay engaged on this forum. Because I want to understand the liberal point of view. Please, keep trying...don't make the leap to dismissing all conservatives because a few nut jobs insist on their right to be offensive and hateful. They are not representative. Really.

Thank you

Southerngirl — Fri, 25 Sep 2009 10:28:57 -0500

Thank you Gena.

I went into a store in NC to buy gas a looked up and there waas a huge rebel flag in the store I told the clerk that they did not want my business and walked out.

I live near a pond store where I was happily picking out stuff for my pond until my son asked what kind of flag was that? The rebel flag was on the d*mn flag pole. I just left all my stuff and walked away from the owner. He tried to explain to me why he was flying it and I asked him if I tell you that that flag not only scares me but is wayy beyond offensive to me and many like me would you take it down? He said no and I explained that he did not want my business.

For some its ignorance for others it is pure hate. The only problem is that it is hard to tell the difference.

I am still not sure who they are reclaiming America from as this is just as much MY country as yours.

Michelle

I blog at http://www.mommycan.blogspot.com/

When Parents Are Fighting To Allow The Kids To Wear It

Gena Haskett — Wed, 23 Sep 2009 18:59:07 -0500

then I think that there is some need to re-cast the meaning and intent of the flag. It is being re-cast as a symbol of pride, of repecting ancestors and standing in defiance of the federal government.

If they had used the original Confederate flag they would have a better case. The Rebel flag was specifically use to incite fear and harm. So when I see European-Americans rasing high that specific birthright of dominion and death, I get a little twitchy.

I'm not fooled by the use of "reclaiming America" either.

Gena - Out On The Stoop

the rebel flag

Mata H — Wed, 23 Sep 2009 18:18:25 -0500

I find this flag offensive as well. I had a long and serious talk with a business colleague I was meeting with "down south' some years ago. She said it (the rebel flag) was important to her because it reminded her of a simpler time, a better time...."but for whom was it better?" I asked. She didn't know what I meant. It is like slavery had become invisible to her, or part of some quaint Steven-Foster-playing-softly-in-the-background diorama of a fictional graceful time. It all depends where you look. A lot of demythologizing needs to go on. It's like some folks bought their own propoganda.

Check the description of slave quarters in Colonial Williamsburg (makes it sound like a low income camp) -- or the Robert E Lee house that is equally casual in the use of the word "slave" - no negative judgment of slavery at all.

Or, the Loudoun County Va site that has a long article about slavery called "Slave Quarters - A Reminder of Bygone Era " ..makes it sound almost romantic, doesn't it? It goes on to say about the slave quarters :
"About 1950, Fadeley's great grandson, who shared his name, restored the slave quarters and they became guest quarters. They remain in another family's ownership, and in fine condition.
Anyone interested in joining or helping Friends of the Slave Quarters should contact...etc etc etc"

The flag is just the symbol that flies over this tragic and (fill in the blank with something strong) cultural amnesia.

~~ Contributing Editor, Mata H. also blogs right along at Time's Fool

Yes, A Very Long Way To Go

Gena Haskett — Wed, 23 Sep 2009 17:45:15 -0500

I don't necessarily agree with AP but I do understand the point. No one wants to be constantly called a racist or being accused of being one. There are opportunists on both sides of the fence.

Having said that, there is some nasty stuff that is Class-A racist. And some racist behaviors and speech are being embrased as "white pride" and "defending America for Americans." Some of those behaviors have appeared at rallys and town hall meetings. Some are on broadcast and cable media.

I am not a conservative person. I'm am pleading for moderate and independent conservatives to reclaim their party or start a new one.

It might be too late. Because when you use terms like "ethnic cleansing" because people have a disagreement about a flag then the rage level may have risen to a soon to be dangerous level. (See the link for the S.C. news story. I'm not making this up.)

Gena - Out On The Stoop

A few years ago

Denise — Wed, 23 Sep 2009 15:11:05 -0500

That just drives me insane. There should be no children's sports teams (or schools) that have the rebel flag or Dixie as symbols. We should have moved beyond that and people should understand WHY these cannot be symbols to represent us.

~Denise
BlogHer Community Manager

Flamingo House Happenings

Very good post

LadyT — Wed, 23 Sep 2009 13:34:53 -0500

You've so articulately posted what I've been trying to explain. I was at my son's football game a few years ago and the opposing teams flag was this flag and their school song was Dixie. I was so upset and no one understood why ...

Another good post

Denise — Wed, 23 Sep 2009 07:36:57 -0500

American Princess blogged that we need to move past the cries of racism or Conservatives aren't going to come to the table to discuss the problems we're facing.

I see the same thing here, southerners need to stop bringing the Rebel flag with them to townhalls because they are keeping you from attending and participating in those discussions.

We have a long long way to go, don't we.

~Denise
BlogHer Community Manager

Flamingo House Happenings

Education is so much more than school

alyssaroyse — Wed, 02 Sep 2009 00:36:03 -0500

I'm also a big public school advocate. (went to them, taught in them, have a kid in them.) It seems to me that is should go without saying that an education population generally has a better shot at being able to sustain themselves - and I believe there are statistics that illustrate the relationship between education level and over all cost / benefit to society.

That said, those things are very dry and very one-dimensional. I worry that our definition of success has gotten too rooted in the acquisition of titles, money and things. I worry that we have forgotten that, for centuries, people learned trades and were respected for them. That for many people, being a chef or a house painter or a farmer or.... are all wonderful, fulfilling and successful careers.

I had a conversation a few months ago with one of my daughter's friends who wanted, at the time, to be a photographer when she grew up. She insisted that she needed to go to an ivy-league school to learn this trade. I explained to her the basic cost benefit analysis of an ivy-league education compared to the salary of a photographer and the likelihood that the ivy-league education would help anything in that career. And she just said, "but I have to go to a good college."

I think we've ost sight of the fact that an education should teach kids how to think, how to be themselves as adults, how wo be an engaged part of the world. And that for every person that's different.

It's a complicated subject. We actually just released the September Issue of JUST CAUSE Magazine, and it's pretty much all about education, Back To School Issue. (Link to FREE subscription: http://www.zinio.com/justcause)

____________

Alyssa Royse

Just Cause It: A Web Site To Save The World

READ the magazine

Yes, and you are taxed very

audreyh68 — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 18:36:30 -0500

Yes, and you are taxed very heavily to maintain the NHS. 11% I believe, on top of already outlandish tax rates, and then throw in the VAT on top of all that which is a stifling 15% right now but will increase to 17.5% on Jan 1st.

I immigrated to the UK in 2003 and am married to a Brit. Having lived there and experienced the NHS first hand, it was one of the driving reasons I came back to the US and immigrated my husband here.

The US can not afford to do things the way the UK has and is currently running things. My husband is chomping at the bit to reply to your comment, but out of respect for Gena and to keep things on topic, I'm not going to let him...not in this thread anyhow.

My bottom line, education is a right. Our founding fathers knew this. I don't see it as being socialistic when I'm paying for my own child's education, as my taxes have done so, for several years.

Gena, When I have the time,

audreyh68 — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 18:28:45 -0500

Gena,

When I have the time, I'll find the link about not being able to opt your children out of certain classes involving sexual orientation in CA. And I'm not ready for a fight. I have no dog in this fight as it were, in CA. I went to both Private and Public school out there and am better for both. However back then, my mother had the option of opting me out of certain classes without it affecting my GPA and I know for a fact, in a lot of districts down there, that is not the case. She's fighting very hard for two families with children who were punished because they were taken out of class on certain days when material their parents objected to was presented in class.

And it IS germane to the discussion because it has to do with what is being PUBLICLY funded in our schools!

In the end Gena, this isn't a fight. It's a difference of opinion. And for the time being anyhow, you and I are still allowed to freely express those and frankly, whilst I might not agree with you, I'd take up arms to assure you the right to remain free to express your opinion.

Socialist Medicine?

Roxsie — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 12:22:21 -0500

Just a small comment, I live in Britain where we take "socialist" education and healthcare as a matter of course. We managed to set up the NHS right after we'd left the second world war, a war we'd been fighting for a lot of time pretty much on our own. We were heavily in debt to the US (in fact we've only just finished paying off our WWII debts) Our infrastructure had been bombed heavily, we did not have enough housing, food was still rationed and in short supply. And yet we managed to afford to create our welfare state where healthcare was, and still is, free on point of demand, a unemployment benefit sceme so that anyone who is looking for work is still able to meet their bills, social housing for those who cannot afford their own home (not as good as it used to be), education for all which is paid for by the government.

If Britain could afford all that while on the verge of bankruptsy and have manage to maintain it for 60 years surely a richer country such as the US should be able to do the same.

This Isn't A Debate about Sex Ed - Here Is My Proof

Gena Haskett — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 07:24:52 -0500

Really, it is not. I'm not disrespecting your point of view. I try very hard not to say things I cannot prove. I can prove you or any other parent has the right and the option to pull your child out of CA Sex Ed classes. This is from the CA Dept. of Education's Frequently Asked Questions about HIV and Sex Ed:

******************

http://www.cde.ca.gov/ls/he/se/parentnotice.asp

http://www.cde.ca.gov/ls/he/se/faq.asp

15. Do parents and/or guardians need to be informed if their child is to receive sex education or HIV/STD instruction?

Yes. The law recognizes that while parents and guardians support the teaching of medically accurate, comprehensive sex education in schools, they have the ultimate responsibility for teaching their children about human sexuality; they may choose to withdraw their children from this instruction.

EC sections 51937 and 51938 explain that parents or guardians must be notified (passive consent) by the school at the beginning of the school year about planned comprehensive sexual health education and HIV/AIDS prevention education, be given an opportunity to review materials, and be given the opportunity to request in writing that their child not participate in the instruction.

In addition, to facilitate the collection of data needed by researchers to evaluate the effectiveness of sex education and other teen pregnancy prevention efforts, the law has modified the parental consent procedures governing student assessments. This law permits schools to administer anonymous, voluntary, confidential, age-appropriate surveys or questionnaires in which students are asked about their health risk behavior, including sexual activities and attitudes. Parents must be notified of any planned assessments, be given the opportunity to review the assessments and, in grades seven through twelve, and be given the opportunity to request in writing that their children not participate. Prior to seventh grade, parents must give their active consent in order for their child to participate.

These parental notification and consent policies apply only to sexual health education, HIV/AIDS prevention education, and related assessments.

***************

Do with it as you will. I'm kinda sorry I'm telling you this because I do think you ought to hear other ideas and perspectives that you may or may not agree with but you seem so ready to have a fight.

I am not. I believe in the exchange of opinions and points of view.

Gena - Out On The Stoop