BlogHer - vaccines - Comments

Room for improvement

moonfever0 — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 07:52:45 -0500

I agree that vaccines are not perfect and there is room for improvement. But I do believe that research and studies are being done to improve vaccines and not just to cover up issues.

Angela at mommy bytes
BlogHer Contributing Editor in Mommy & Family Cribsheet

Yes, these diseases ARE

Taximom5 — Fri, 26 Jun 2009 12:17:30 -0500

Yes, these diseases ARE highly contagious. So are colds, so is the flu--and those can be deadly to those who do not have proper nutrition, or who suffer from other health issues.

However, the number of children with severe reactions to the vaccines is greater than the number of children in the US who died from the diseases the vaccines are supposed to prevent. Shouldn't that count for something?

I'm not saying that we shouldn't try to prevent these diseases--just that the current way is causing irreparable damage that is either unrecognized or outright ignored, and that we need a safer way. Safer vaccines, and a safer vaccine schedule, with adequate testing, would be a great start.

You do know that there are NO studies of the long-term safety of 36 vaccines by the age of 18 months, right? There are only short-term studies of individual vaccines.

Rubella is such a mild disease, most people don't even know that they've had it. BUT--it can cause horrible birth defects if the mom is exposed while pregnant. So I totally understand wanting to keep that one under control. But there's no good reason why it HAS to be administered together with measles and mumps. How often in real-life exposure does the immune system have to deal with all 3 in the bloodstream at once?

It would be so much wiser to give individual vaccines--from individual ampules, NOT containing preservatives and antibiotic agents--and to give them when the child is a little older.

Did you know that vaccine dosages are not varied per the body weight of the child? So my 4.5 pounder got the exact same dosage that his 9 pound brother got--when he was 4 hours old.

More than one risk

Taximom5 — Fri, 26 Jun 2009 06:53:53 -0500

But, Melissa, most of those who are deemed "militant anti-vaccinationists" have children who have had severe reactions to a vaccine!

Imagine having a perfectly healthy child who, after being given several vaccines at once, nearly died within hours of those vaccines. Or DID die--all you have to do is check VAERS (the Vaccine Adverse Effect Reporting System) to find cases--aned WAY more cases than those who died from measles. In fact, imagine your child has one cousin who DID die from a vaccine reaction, and another who has video footage of the day before vaccination(healthy child joking and coversing with parent) and the day after (child twirling, flapping arms, shrieking, banging head on floor, and refusing all contact with parent, and yes, for some children, it DOES happen just that quickly).

Imagine that every doctor you speak with says that it COULDN'T be the vaccine, vaccines don't cause those reactions, so your child's case (like 90%) and his cousin's case get reported to VAERS.

Imagine that you've had a documented severe reaction as an adult to vaccine, but the doctor still won't even consider that there's some kind of family history.

Imagine that your research has uncovered statement from both the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) and the British Medical Journal saying that the flu shot is ineffective in both children and the elderlly. But if you live in New Jersey, you are not permitted to send your child to school or daycare without it, even though both you and he were hospitalized from the reaction to the last one.

Those of us whom you want to term "non-vaccinating militants" do not want anyone's child to suffer from any illness--but we would like our children to stay alive.

Please do some research on some non-pharmaceutical-sponsored links to see the "other side of the story" (you know that there are always two sides). www.nvic.org is a good place to start.

I'm not trying to convince anyone to stop vaccinating. If your child doesn't have a severe reaction, doesn't suffer from autoimmune issues, then inject away. We won't even get into a detailed discussion of the tainted research and the financial conflict of interest in the agencies that determine the recommended vaccine schedule.

But please don't vilify those of us who have either lost a child, or spent a frightening week or two in the hospital fearing just that, and not wanting a repeat episode. Please don't assume that direct allergy to eggs is the only medical condition that precludes vaccination.

Melissa, just imagine that nobody BELIEVED that your child was really allergic to eggs! For many of the adverse reactions to vaccine ingredients, there is no test available to confirm; the reaction, while potentially deadly, is not a histamine reaction, so it's technically not an allergy.So our child reacts every bit as severely as yours, but the doctors say "it can't POSSIBLY be the vaccine."

Now multiply that by several thousand previously healthy babies, because that's how many similar cases have been reported.

Everything I've asked you to imagine above is not imaginary. It's all really happened, to real people. All of it happened to our family, only the child who died was not related biologically.

I should point out that I have since found several mainstream doctors who agree that vaccines are no longer in the best interest of our children--but the first dozen or so doctors that we saw did their best to make me feel like some kind of hysterical, uneducated, overreacting housefrau. In fact, one of those same doctors laughed at me for bringing my suddenly yellow-skinned 7-week-old in with whathe doctor insisted was either breast-milk jaundice or Asian heritage. It turned out that he was in congestive heart failure and his liver was enlarged due to a large ventricular septal defect.

PLEASE realize that most of us have absolutely no political agenda--we just want our children to stay alive and healthy, too--and we don't want our children sacrificed for herd immmunity.

Highly contagious

moonfever0 — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 08:14:12 -0500

Because these diseases are relatively rare these days, people have forgotten how highly contagious they are. In the measles story, news reports had to remind people that anyone in the same space within 100 feet and within 2 hours of the infected person could contract the measles.

I'm glad that your experience turned out fine. It is scary to think that this would be a more common experience if more people decide not to vaccinate.

Angela at mommy bytes
BlogHer Contributing Editor in Mommy & Family Cribsheet

Our actions impact each other

AmberS — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 23:49:03 -0500

We had a mumps outbreak this summer that started in a religious community that doesn't believe in vaccination. When my son was 6 days old we had to take my preschooler to the ER because she ate some wild mushrooms. We brought the baby because we didn't really have any other option - both kids needed me. It made me more than a little nervous to have my very young child in a hospital during the mumps outbreak. Luckily they were able to find us a place away from the crowd where we were at less risk of exposure to whatever was going around.

Thankfully the baby was fine. But it drove home the point - our actions affect each other more than we think sometimes.

~ Amber

www.strocel.com

Thanks for posting the link to GAVI

moonfever0 — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 12:17:37 -0500

Thank you so much for posting the link to GAVI. I almost did as well when I was doing research for this post, but I wanted to keep it neutral. Parents and children all over the world desperately want vaccines, where here in our privileged country, we've come full circle and refuse it.

Angela at mommy bytes
BlogHer Contributing Editor in Mommy & Family Cribsheet

GAVI

amanda4gavi — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 09:12:32 -0500

First of all, BRAVO! I really enjoyed the perspective of the blog. I think too often in the vaccine debate, children in the poorest countries that need vaccines most are forgotten. I work for the GAVI Alliance, which helps provide vaccines to children in the 72 poorest countries. Thanks so much for bringing this important issue to light! Check out our web site http://everychild.gavialliance.org for more info!

Absolutely

moonfever0 — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 06:33:04 -0500

The whole point of vaccinating the herd is to protect the people who are unable to become vaccinated either because they are too young or have a severe allergy. Once a high enough percentage of the population is vaccinated, the risk of the disease spreading is minimal. But once this percentage gets below a certain percentage, the risk goes up exponentially.

If you don't have a severe allergy to vaccines, you should vaccinate. If you don't, you are relying on the good graces of every one else who does.

Angela at mommy bytes
BlogHer Contributing Editor in Mommy & Family Cribsheet

good point.

Michelle McKinley — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 03:32:11 -0500

I vaccinate my children, but on my own schedule. Wrong to needlessly expose others to disseases we can vaccinate against, I agree.

but

I do wish vaccines were made safe for all.

http://superfabuloushousewife.blogspot.com/

Another Group At Risk

MLOKnitting — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 00:46:27 -0500

There is another population that has already been damaged by the miitant non-vaccinating crowd, those with medical conditions that preclude vaccinations. There is a very small percentage of the population that are severely allergic to the medium that vaccines are grown in. Prior to the militant non-vaccinators, they were not dismissed by their doctors when they brought up their concens. They have been unfairly lumped in with this group of militants.

Imagine having a severely egg allergic child (reactive enough that vaccines are potentially deadly) and being dismissed as a crazy anti-vaccinator. It has happened to some parents of food allergic kids. Their very legitimate medical concern is being dismissed as political. It happens. I blame the anti-vaccination crowd.

MLO / Melissa

Landmines everywhere!

moonfever0 — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 22:04:21 -0500

I don't know when vaccines have become such a hot button issue. I have always believed in the benefits of vaccines. Doesn't anyone remember that smallpox has been eliminated because of vaccines? And how many people are NOT crippled because of the polio vaccine?

I heard a recent episode of This American Life where a ten month old baby contracted measles by going to the same pediatrician's office with a boy who had measles and was not vaccinated. The sheer terror of hearing that baby's struggle to stay alive because of one parent's selfish paranoia moved me firmly into the "you MUST vaccinate" crowd. I agree completely with the mother of the baby who felt that if you're not going to vaccinate your child, you should move to your own infectious diseases island.

People should have a responsibility to society and not just their own agenda. If they don't respect promoting the overall well-being of society at large, then they should move off the grid, have their own doctors, and stay out of public places. Sure they can over-protective and paranoid, but they should also be quarantined to stop them from endangering the lives of innocent babies.

As far as the MMR vaccine, I'm not convinced either way about its link with autism. But the Spock quote which was repeated during that This American Life show still holds, "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few."

(Whew, I'm glad I can vent here, and not post this on my blog only to be flamed to death.)

Angela at mommy bytes
BlogHer Contributing Editor in Mommy & Family Cribsheet

HFCS

1337 — Tue, 10 Mar 2009 17:04:40 -0500

All of you have very interesting perspectives, and it is certain that vaccines are at least as important as penicillin in the Western world's fight against the plagues that have accosted humanity. Now, having said that, is it always a good idea to vaccinate your children against the known and most lethal illnesses? Probably. As a country, America has a pretty good hold on most of the truly scary diseases that once ravaged our ancestors, even our parents. But if we stop vaccinating where there seems to be no need, there will surely be one in the future. Now, should the greedy pharmaceutical companies invest in testing other preservatives other than the harmful agent known as mercury? Absolutely. And it is a crime if they do not. Now, whether or not vaccines actually cause all autism, we know the answer to that is most definitely no. But does it contribute to autism in some cases? Absolutely yes. There are other factors to consider here, though. The main reason that vaccines were attacked for causation of autism is simple: nearly every child in the whole country is vaccinated at least some in their lives. But here's another thing most people aren't thinking about: most children in the United States are also exposed to HIGH FRUCTOSE CORN SYRUP.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/26/AR200901...

(If you don't want to read this report, it basically says that most HFCS has mercury in it.)

Of course the corn companies, as we've all seen on the television lately, have tried to cover their worthless hides after this experiment and many on diabetes, obesity, insulin resistance, and, (don't tell me you're surprised by this one) fibermialgia. Their commercials about HFCS being nutritionally analogous to sugar are lies, and they should be prosecuted for false advertisement, at the very least.

If we think that it's just the vaccines that are debilitating our children, we are very wrong. But also, if we think that it's just the HFCS, we are also, probably, wrong. It is these things together, more than likely catalyzed by other agents present in the American lifestyle that is stealing the life away from these children and their parents.

If more is not done to remedy these two known factors in autism, we as the American people should consider it criminal and prosecute these low-lifes who feel that virtual green stuff with presidents on it is more important than our (and their) children. If more research is not conducted to narrow down the other (and there are others) causes of autism, then someone must pay.

There's no PROOF YET or that they'll make public!

MissICanTell — Sun, 22 Feb 2009 12:15:31 -0600

It's all about politics ladies. Wake up and open your eyes wide enough to take in the whole entire picture.

We are only told about the things they want us to know about. Those parents who had a healthy happy baby one morning, went to get the "scheduled" vaccines that afternoon, returned home with a damaged child. That's all the PROOF I need. Who's fault? there is a whole entire LINE of people responsible, in my personal opinion.

Read The Autoimmune Epidemic, Breakthrough by Suzane Somers, The Reality Behind the Myth ( on Vaccines), DPT: A Shot In The Dark...you'll educate yourself on something no one wants to talk about; the lies we are told every day so someone can make a buck. It's sad that that buck has turned into a TRILLION dollar industry...and who suffers the most? you and I do.

I want to be told the facts and just the facts, problem is they don't even know what the facts are anymore because they've told so many lies.

I just viewed a DVD where Gabriel Cousins M.D.CURES 6 people of diabetes...4 are type 2 and 2 are type one...one wasn't totally cured but was down from 70 units of insulin to 5 units in just 30 days. He fed their bodies what they needed to heal themselves. Why isn't this on the national news? we know why..if everyone was WELL and Healthy and Happy...who would make money on the sick? No one because there wouldn't be any sick people...how many jobs would be lost then?

See we've gotten ourselves backed into a corner or sorts, the way i see it...pretty scary and pretty dang sad. In order for a whole slew of people to keep their jobs, we have to remain sick! What's wrong with this picture?

I'm a mom of 5 wonderfully healthy children. We didn't vaccinate, we had home births for the last 4, I breast fed the last four until they were two, fed them no baby food and we are now going 80% raw organic food as a family. Food will either kill you or heal you.

Immunizations are a joke...for the masses. IF they would develop a test to test a childs immunity from birth, then maybe we could move in the right direction. But until they do that, I would stay as far away from a doctor with needles as I could.

Oh and YES I got all 5 kids into PUBLIC SCHOOL without vaccinations.

My kids, when they do get sick, are sick for hours not days. They are all "tested" geniuses. Have a link to NO vaccines...I think it does.

They don't have proof on the link YET, or they just aren't telling us the truth. No human cell that I know of, is made out of chemicals...so why wouldn't we expect this kind of reaction when we inject a baby by the time they are 1 year old with 19 different shots? We're ORGANIC humans not chemical ones..the body doesn't know what to do with most chemicals ( thus the autoimmune epidemic). MERCURY is poison, so why would we knowingly inject our children with it??

This debate will go on....I just know I did the best thing for my children by not having any vaccinations. They survived whooping cough, one had mumps on the left side and one had the hard measles. We're better served, to learn about health and wellness and the immune system.

Eat well, live well, be well.

~Amy~ From Missouri

Just to add

irelanduser — Sat, 21 Feb 2009 14:25:52 -0600

I have met many who have fully vaccinated children who provide their children with crap diets, virtually no exercise and access to regular fresh air and water. All essentials for a functional immune system

My own experience

irelanduser — Sat, 21 Feb 2009 14:19:14 -0600

I have three children and I suppose when I see the term "crackpot" being used to refer to Ms McCarthy I suppose its one that could and has been applied to me. However, if its a title you earn for providing people with the truth then its one worth wearing. My daughter got all of her early jabs bar the MMR then my son came along he had a very rough delivery and as a result he was a difficult feeder and and a very asymmetrical appearance, we took him to a cranial osteopath and this seemed to get him through this he did very well and at nine months had very normal development. I decided he was ready for his jabs I took him down gave him 5 in 1 AND Men C, within 24 hours MY son was gone he went from 15 hours sleep to nothing, he was screaming at the sound of any white noise, within 3 months he had no babble and spend his days in front of a washing machine. I was a train wreck and I have no idea how myself or my husband were not in a car accident in those months as the lack of sleep was beyond description. At the same time I vaccinated my older daughter with the MMR she developed blood and mucus in her stools within the month that was the beginning of a whole other trauma that unfolded in the following years. At 14 months I took my son back to the cranial osteopath within two weeks he began to babble, and from then on he made great progress and is a great little boy full of empathy and love and very engaging. He is a little shy and very sensitive but he is a good child and I have high hopes for him. As his nightmare ended my daughter's began and her's was much worse she went on to suffer constipation/fecal impaction that was so severe she would spend up to three days trying to move a stool. My daughter suffered far more pain in those years than I ever suffered in childbirth, I have no doubt about that. We tried everything, she wouldn't allow anyone to touch her and consequently could not try the therapy we used on my son, then purely by co-incidence we were in a hotel and she tried crunchy nut cornflakes and almost immediately she said she needed to move her bowel and did so with little discomfort that was a year ago now, since the bowel has settled so too have the social problems and difficulties. Last April a clinical psychologist attempted to label her with Aspergers I refused and she attends OT and SLT for the appropriate interventions now, she is a challenge but we keep working and that is the way it will be. My third girl is not vaccinated. My children will receive some vaccines but only the ones that can be given on a single basis, i.e. tetanus and hib and Men C, this is the first year that I have felt that I can make that trip. People who judge me a crackpot or suggest we should live else where have no idea what they are talking about my kids and us as a family have suffered far more most people know or can imagine. Vaccination is important, what caused it, well after much thought on this I'll tell you what I think, both of those children were ventouse, I think difficult delivery is tough on the child and they need a chance to recover from it. My DH has a chronic low sperm count and is an older dad and this could account for some propensity. My sister has a anaphalactic reaction to her 3 in 1 so heredity factor. Just to confirm my son was diagnosed by the best Paed in the country and it was recommended that he not be given Pertussis again. Some kids can't be vaccinated just like some kids can't eat peanuts, so you who think we should live on our own island I really hope that statement does not come back to haunt you as you have absolutely no idea of the complexity or the sleepless nights people who don't vaccinate put in or the pain people suffer when they have a child with a disability and they don't know what caused it, was it something they did? You can't vaccinate against everything and particularly against accidental death or injury. Myself and my husband come from two very large families (21) brothers and sisters in total, all had measles no-one suffered any damage, we all got chicken pox as did my children. The mothers of all those children would all confirm its not what your children will catch that will kill them but the danger they would get into and many parents will testify to this. Thats just my opinion. This debate will rage. For the parents who read this and still don't know and are torturing themselves remember you are the best judge - YOU know best - follow your instinct.