BlogHer - American Dream - Comments

Interesting

Adriennevh — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 21:31:58 -0600

"I find it interesting that people want strings put on the automakers that have yet to be put in place for any of the financial bailout money. We don't even know and have basically been told we will not be told who got the federal reserve money."

I too find that interesting. I sure as hell wanted strings attached to the money for Wall Street but those senators didn't ask my opinion. It is a thought that perhaps they were so eager to jump on that one with "no strings attached" because alot of THEIR money was in jeopardy. In the auto industry, it doesn't hit any of them personally.

Conditions

Adriennevh — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 21:27:53 -0600

I totally agree that there has to be conditions and compromises in this loan. When I read the Annual FInancial statement and saw that Mullally (FORD CEO) took home the equivalent (in salary and perks and bonuses) of more than $27,000,000 last year my first reaction was WTF? GIVE IT BACK! So that is something that des[perately needs to be addressed.

The hoopla over him (and other CEO'S) using a private jet, I think is unjustified. In this instance they were on their way to a Senate hearing, let's take commercial, oops that flight got cancelled, or delayed or we oversold and YOU got bumped. Not exactly an efficiant way for them to travel.

And yes changes need to be (and have been) made in the types of cars that the Big 3 offer. Specifically for Ford I know that they (as a parent company) are the leader in PZEV vehicles. That the Escape was the first AMerican made Hybrid available in the US and that around the world they have more Hybrids and alternative fuel vehicles. But until the gas prices rose to astronomical heights, the AMerican consumer wasn't interested in Alternative Fuel, they wanted their big ass SUV. Even the Prius, you hate to be put on a waiting list because Toyota didn't manufacture too many because the call wasn't large enough for them.

Sheesh, I coulda made this a whole another post. I'll shut up now.

scary

Adriennevh — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 21:20:13 -0600

That's the part that scares me. The trickle down effect. How many different industries will this hit. If we stop manufacturing in the US, then what will we do?

well said

aftercancer — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 18:15:39 -0600

You've nailed it Wilma, thanks

Kate

I blog at http://www.aftercancernowwhat.wordpress.com

Symptomatic, NOT a seperate issue

Wilma Ham — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 15:40:19 -0600

For the people who are directly affected this migth be hard to accept but this is NOT a seperate issue and it needed to happen.

It shows that companies, us, the world has been living an unsustainable life style for far too long and we all closed our eyes and were hoping or praying for the wrong thing. Kiss it better.

The whole manufactruing and commerce world needs a collapse and total rebuild.
How could we sustain what was going on. More, bigger better for a growing smaller part of the world.

In the book 'Presence' CEOs of large corporation declare in private that the growth they promised to stakeholders was unrealistic. However positive goals and predictions were expected of them, because if they told that a growth of the rate the shareholders expected was beyond possibility, they would get sacked.

So they complied and kept their job until their performance wasn't up with the prediction and another lier was hired.

Oh, how it shows the absurdity of the world we live in.

We need another intent for the American Dream, it is NOT about having things and money, it is about inner and communal abundance and wealth and mental and physical health and good food and love.
This requires a totally different outlook and explanation about life and a total different set of actions, agreements and rules to live by.
We need to work on an explanation of what is communal and inner wealth, and have us no longer being seduced by false promises we deep down know don't serve any of us.

A New American Dream starts with ME, and my willingess to question and learn to live into a new 'we' paradigm, with different intent and different actions.
How about sharing, generosity, and letting go of 'it is all about me'.
Even in relationships we fight for goodness sake, how can we be any better anywhere else.

What we focus on we get.
If we focus on bad depression, we will do bad depression.

If we focus on this is a way to change for the better, we get a change for the better.

Instead of panic and being fearful, be still and focus on what is possible here.
Don't go for false promises that it will all get better, the old way is NOT sustainable.

Einstein said, no problem can be solved at the level it is created.

America, create a total different dream that is humane not economic based.
And be gentle on yourself.
This was how we knew how to act, however with all the literature we can access different ways.
AND we no longer have an excuse for blindly going back to the past ways of greed and looking good and going for the 'having'.

So begin to change the American dream, boldly and purposely for the good of all.
I am doing it here in New Zealand, you are not alone.

Wilma Ham

www.wilmasblog.com

I agree they need support to

aftercancer — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 14:44:25 -0600

I agree they need support to be able to stay viable. I find it interesting that people want strings put on the automakers that have yet to be put in place for any of the financial bailout money. We don't even know and have basically been told we will not be told who got the federal reserve money.

Let's also remember that the reason the automakers made all of these big vehicles what that people were buying them, lots of them. The tax code is written so that people are encouraged to buy them. The CAFE standards are written excluding them so of course they made them.

I don't think the people who oppose this out of hand have any idea what happens if these are actually allowed to crash and burn. Mark my words it will be the worst possible recession anyone has heard of and I wouldn't be surprised if over time it was called a depression. Remember this is not just the automakers but their car dealerships and service techs and financing arms and parts manufacturers and tire makers and well, you get my point.

Kate

I blog at http://www.aftercancernowwhat.wordpress.com

Greed and the auto companies

carol45 — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 14:37:15 -0600

Greed pretty much sums it up, this has been going on since the 1970's. But..... we can't go with the off with their heads model because if these industries go down they take too many with them. About 239000 jobs go if they go down, the list of related industries that would face problems is as follows: iron, steel, plastics, rubber, glass, computer chips. I don't pretend to know the answers here and I don't think they should get a handout with no strings attached, but I think it will be very ugly for this limping economy if they all go down. Capitalism works well until GREED begins to rule all.

Shunned Innovation

ClizBiz — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:38:31 -0600

Excellent post and you've softened my perspective considerably. However, I gotta side with Kristy on this one. Sadly, the willful ignorance of the auto executives is now threatening the livelihood of millions of hardworking Americans. Why? Pure greed.

For decades
now, since the Nixon era actually, there has been a call to lessen our
dependence on foreign oil. How do the Big Three react to this? They
flood the market with SUVs and put out the Hummer.

All along,
these companies have had access to technology that could seriously
reduce our usage of oil and they have dawdled with it. In the end, they
took the low road that led to higher profits for the industry and the
oil companies. They should be ashamed.

In 1990, GM
debuted the EV1 at the Los Angeles Auto Show, the first car with
zero-emissions marketed in the US in over three decades. The vehicles
were marketed through dealers located in only a few regions (e.g.,
California, Arizona, Georgia). The cars were only leased, not sold.
Though demand was high, GM ceased production of the vehicles and all
the EV1's were destroyed or donated to museums or universities.

A colleague reminded me today to view the documentary, "Who Killed the Electric Car?"
which delves into the short life of this GM EV1 electric car. Asks the
film's tagline: "How could such an efficient, green-friendly vehicle
fail to transform our garages and skies?" Once again: Greed. As long as
there are still fossil fuels trapped in the earth, people will pay big
money to find it, sell it and burn it.

I hope and pray that these companies, for the sake of their employees, find a recovery solution but much of this mess was brought on by the companies themselves.

~ClizBiz

BlogHer Contributing Editor, Animal Concerns, Proprietor, ClizBiz

I Am Totally Torn on The Big 3 Getting A "Bailout"

Kristy Sammis — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:23:18 -0600

I am for the "bailout" (which I agree will serve as a bridge loan, not a hand-out) STRICTLY in terms of employment. I think letting these companies go under and putting millions of people -- here and abroad -- out of work would be disastrous.

HOWEVER.

I am really angry at the way the car companies have been managed.

I HIGHLY recommend reading David Halberstam's "The Reckoning." (About the rise of the American auto industry, the unions, and Japanese auto manufacturing.)

The REASON that Chrysler needed a loan almost 30 years ago is the SAME REASON it needs a loan now. Not because times got "hard," but because the organizations REFUSED to innovate. REFUSED -- actively lobbied against, in fact -- to accept that the gas-guzzling models would ultimately do more harm than good. And when consumers could no longer afford the fuel-inefficient, luxury vehicles...well.

In the 80s, they turned to Japanese cars. Just as they turned to Japanese electronics in Adrienne's example.

Now it's 2008 and instead of learning their lesson, the auto executives repeated the exact same mistakes.

The SUV culture propagated in the 90s was not sustainable. Not economically, not environmentally. But the car companies did everything they could to squash alternative-energy vehicle production.

They willfully ignored the cyclical nature of the economy and consumerism, and now they're paying the price. Except they're trying not to.

I don't want to see millions of people out of work, but I would like to see the hundreds of high-level auto executives ousted.

Maybe next time?

---
Kristy Sammis
BlogHer's Conference & Event Planner
e. kristy@blogher.com

It's not just Big 3 that will "die"...

slmagill — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 07:54:27 -0600

I am a child of GM--my dad worked there for over 43 years. So, I am incredibly invested in what happens with this. People sometimes forget that it's not just the employees of these companies (GM, Ford, Chrysler) that will be affected, it's suppliers, their suppliers, other companies who work with these companies, and most importantly, it's entire towns. Millions of people will be affected by this and I wonder if that's not obvious enough to everyone who is against it. You think things are bad now, wait until they go under and see how bad it gets. I am the first to say that things need to change and the companies need to be more competitive and nimble, but lets not throw all of it away.

I hope they survive. I pray that they survive.

suzi

Ooh yes.

GeekMommy — Wed, 19 Nov 2008 01:36:52 -0600

My American Dream has always been leading a life where just a little more was possible than the last one... science, technology, culture, provinder... longer lives, less disease, less struggle to stay alive, more evolved behavior between people, less fear of homelessness, violence and starvation.

The thing is - we usually talk of American Dreams as 'per person' or 'per family' - but we forget that American part. The reason it works here - the reason we don't say Bolivian Dream or Congolese Dream - is because we don't do it alone. We do it as a country.

Is a Mark Twainism that a bank is a place who will loan you an umbrella when it's dry and demand it back when it's raiining?

You need an umbrella when it's raining. Lord have mercy... it's raining.

Lucretia (aka GeekMommy)

Raising a child in a digital world, still a digital girl

Amen!

Erin Kotecki Vest — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 23:10:31 -0600

Amen! Amen!

Politics & News Contributing Editor
Queen of Spain

I Certainly Hope You're Right

Megan Smith — Sun, 30 Dec 2007 20:05:07 -0600

I'll take a look at those links. Thanks Kim.

Megan
Megan’s Minute

I understand your anger, Megan

Kim Pearson — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 15:59:37 -0600

Believe me, I do. And I thank you for the affirmation. Right now, my whole life is about finding ways to tell the story that helps young people get exactly what you are saying. And I also agree with you that the Viacoms are all about a dollar and are essentially amoral.

I think that it's really about vision. My cousins, brother and I were talking about this recently. We can look back four generations and see the progress from one generation to the next. Our great-grandparents made it out of slavery. Our grandparents survived sharecropping and the Great Migration. Our parents defeated Jim Crow and got an entree into the middle class.

But that middle class status was largely depended on government and corporate middle-management staff jobs. Those have been the most vulnerable to the structural upheavals in the economy over the last two decades. Our generation's job has been to solidify that position, diversify our fields of endeavor, and begin the job of creating real wealth and building institutions. And we have to do it while negotiating a constructive relationship with the larger culture. It's a tricky challenge, and it requires a conversation about vision that is taking place in places that get relatively little publicity. Tavis Smiley's Covenant With Black America project is the most visible of those efforts.

But keep an eye on people such as Dr. William A Massey. In addition to having become an internationally recognized mathematician, he is the founder of the Council of African American Research Mathematicians, he has won acclaim for his success at mentoring women and young men of color through doctoral programs in mathematics. In fact, his former proteges are teaching at places such as Duke, Carnegie-Mellon and Spelman. More recently, he brought together African American engineering alumni at Princeton to talk about how to leverage their considerable accomplishments to address such persistent issues as the achievement gap among students of color. As a participant in that gathering, I can tell you that we are still working on following up on the ideas that were generated.

Yes, there is a lot to be frustrated about. But we are not powerless. And I believe that if we each do what we can do, change is gonna come.

Kim
BlogHer Contributing Editor|Professor Kim|

Don't Get Me Started On BET

Megan Smith — Mon, 03 Dec 2007 23:02:30 -0600

First let me say I always find your articles thought provoking and well researched and I appreciate that. And on this issue I think we agree much more than we disagree.

For example, I have to agree with you when you wrote about Whitlock's article:

"I criticized him for asserting that Taylor's behavior contributed to his demise when he had NO evidence to support that assertion."

You're right about that.

But when it comes to the media, the media is all about money. I work in the media and I'm the first to criticize its many shortcomings, but the media doesn't care about criticism unless it gets hit in the pocketbook.

If black people weren't watching those videos on BET and buying the products advertised between those videos, BET would show something else.

We as a community can't control all the destructive media and journalism out there, but we can control what goes on in our own homes and to some extent in our own communities. Sure, we need to do the activist thing and blog and march and vote our protests against this stuff and against the coverage or lack thereof of missing black women, or black murder victims or other important issues in the black community. That goes without saying.

But if we expect the Viacoms of the world to just stop showing the crap because it's wrong and because we protest, we're going to be waiting a hell of a long time. I think our time is often better spent looking at and trying to repair ourselves. Something I don't think we do nearly enough.

When I think of all the black people who fought and died for our right to vote, and all the black people who fought and died for our right to get an education, and all the black people who fought and died to open doors for future generations of black kids, I get very angry and then I want to cry.

I think being brutally honest about ourselves is what will help to get us back on the right path. I just fear it's going to take at least another generation for that to happen.

Keep up the great work.

Megan
www.megansminute.com