BlogHer - Barack Obama - Comments

You're welcome!

Kim Pearson — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 18:51:09 -0500

Also I should have mentioned that the post at Jack and Jill Politics that Erin linked to does a nice job of reflecting on the references Pres. Obama made to the Civil Rights movement.

KimBlogHer Contributing Editor|Professor Kim|

Great post

Candelaria Silva — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 17:05:16 -0500

Thanks, Kim, as always. The roundup of posts from Erin is impressive. I'll check most of them out.

http://blog.candelarisilva.com

http://examiner.com/x-2478-Boston-Domestic-Issues_Examiner

Good and plenty!

The President's silence

Kim Pearson — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 15:58:01 -0500

LaShawn and others seem to think that Obama hasn't condemned the attack on the military recruiter's office because: 1) his base is less sympathetic to the military, and 2) he didn't want to anger his Muslim hosts on the eve of his trip there. I see no evidentiary basis for either conclusion. I don't pretend to now why he hasn't made a statement, but then again, I was surprised that he made a statement so quickly after Dr. Tiller's murder. It struck me that at the time he made his statement, it wasn't even clear that the killer was connected to the anti-abortion movement. Then again, perhaps he'd been given that information before it was made public.

By the way, LaShawn reports today that a there is a statement about the murder of Private William Long on the White House website. She isn't satisfied with it , however.

KimBlogHer Contributing Editor|Professor Kim|

Thanks, Erin

Kim Pearson — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 15:46:15 -0500

That's quite a link roundup, Erin -- thanks!

I'm not sure why Atlas Shrugs didn't note Obama's insistence that Israel's right to exist be recognized, as well as his condemnation of Holocaust denial. By the way, the images of of young girls are beyond horrific.

KimBlogHer Contributing Editor|Professor Kim|

Some additional reaction to the speech

Erin Kotecki Vest — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 11:27:50 -0500

Ranging from all sides:

http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2009/06/the-cairo-speech-and-the-auto...

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2009/06/obama-to-ummah-....

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2009/6/4/83259/55718

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8083171.stm

Politics & News Contributing Editor
Queen of Spain

How Many Ways Can You Split A Toothpick?

Gena Haskett — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 07:52:12 -0500

I'm not going to lie. I have major issues with Cheney. He lied, straight up, unquestionably and irrefutable. American citizens died because of him. Iraqi citizens died because of him.

That PR machine that he engineered became the war in Iraq only helped to further divide the country and the world. Yes, I'd want an investigation on how we find ourselves in the place where we currently stand, a much more dangerous world.

Yes, the media should have been just as loud about the murder of these men. This is the first that I am hearing of it. Home grown terrorism should be condemned.

As for LaShawn I would have liked to have left her a link to http://aheartbreakingchoice.com because if you are gonna use the term baby-killer, slaughter and murder you might want to do a little research before to make sure your blanket statements cover everybody and every possible circumstance.

Unfortunately I could not because there did not seem to be a way to respectfully communicate or show another perspective about the topic.

Gena - Out On The Stoop

what Tiller actually performed

norahsnow — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 14:08:48 -0500

Dr. Tiller routinely performed abortions on viable fetuses for mothers whose physical health was not in jeopardy. He was able to do this under the protection of the law. This does not make it right. Why are pro abortionists so reluctant to discuss the specifics of the very procedure they defend? Case in point - Destiny Lopez on KQED's Forum show this a.m.

It's probable that a majority of Americans know very little about the barbaric procedure used to end the lives of these infants.

tragic and criminal act

Mata H — Tue, 02 Jun 2009 21:57:22 -0500

This is domestic terrorism by certain members of the far evangelical right plain and simple. That doesn't mean all right to life people. It means just what it says..no more, no less. The most horrific thing is that he was killed. But how ugly is it that his killer, proclaiming Godliness, killed him in a church, in front of families, children....? The sick hypocrisy of it just makes my skin crawl.

The members of the church in which Dr Tiller was killed have issued a statement at their site and are also providing resources deal with the trauma of church members.
Reformation Lutheran Church

Lisa -- The Southern Poverty Law Center has an article about the killer's links to hate groups, and also states in this article that hate groups have increased by 54% since 2000.

~~ Contributing Editor, Mata H. also blogs right along at Time's Fool

the issue is when a majority of pro life/Christian groups all

Crunchy Carpets — Mon, 01 Jun 2009 16:22:35 -0500

use similar if not the same language to protest or speak their mind about abortion...they WILL be lumped in as either fundi or extremist.

There is a Catholic school org here that uses the CHILDREN to line up and down the streets with signs proclaiming MURDER! HORROR! CHILD KILLERS!!! etc...

Would they support MURDERING a doctor..probably not...but they are using the same type of rhetoric that inflames those more on the edge of reason when it comes to this issue.

I think that the whole pro life stance has to take a look at what and how they speak about abortion and what they want from the ongoing argument...

Perhaps coming up with SOLUTIONS or at least showing understanding about why people fight for choice would make things better for all.

But calling all pro choice people murderers etc....NOT going to help is it.

Look for me at http://crunchycarpets.com or check out the ladies at www.wetcoastwomen.com

Again, I'd caution.

Jozet at Halushki — Mon, 01 Jun 2009 12:25:12 -0500

Who are you speaking about?

I'd be very clear that all Christians are not fundamentalists, and that all fundamentalists - Christian or otherwise -are not terrorists.

"Chrisian Fundamentalist Terrorist" sounds dangerously close to the kind of long strung-together word that is used by some people to feign confusion - or maybe just to exercise and exorcise their own hatreds - in targeting any and all Muslims as being terrorists.

As a member of a specific Christian denomination that embraces evolution theory, I've had to defend myself time and time again to otherwise intelligent and learned people as not being someone who believed that the earth was only 6,000 years old. I've had to defend myself as not being a "bad parent who should not be teaching children such things." I've had people suggest in front of my children that perhaps they'd be better off with parents who didn't "abuse" them with religion. Etc., etc, ad infinitum.

This is exactly the kind of rhetoric that can get out of control very quickly and set people in their corners. And just when the President is calling for a meeting place. He's set the standard by opening lines of communication with many people and groups that other people in the U.S. would rather not open a dialogue with. And he's not doing it by saying "I hate you, but..." or using borderline expletive pronouncements and tricksy nomneclature.

I get what is being done here by calling a specific group "terrorist" and agree with it to a great extent. I'm just cautioning to be very, very clear in outlining exactly where these people fall inside the Venn diagram of Christians, fundamentalists, and terrorists. Otherwise, the finger is going to keep spinning and pointing, spinnins and pointing.

Halushki.com

I'm not sure that I'm a part of any group that spouts rhetoric.

Jozet at Halushki — Mon, 01 Jun 2009 12:06:00 -0500

Most people I know are not, not essentially. Not IRL.

The number of people I happen to know who spout any kind rhetoric IRL are few and, actually, from all philosophical corners. The people I know who also spout hate-filled rhetoric, have never ceased to suprise me with their hypocritcal opinions and actions on many matters, and again, come from all philosophies and ideologies. When anyone gets to the level of spouting rhetoric, there are no discernable "good guys". They all sound the same...black-and-white thinking, abusive of power, and using group stereotypes as a weapon that is always eventually wielded unfairly against individuals.

Who owns "pro life"? I can almost guarantee that the majority of the people I know IRL who identify as "pro life" would first of all define within different parameters, and second - maybe revealingly - I'd be surprised if any of them even knew what "Operation Rescue" was. And yet all of them would, I feel sure, ultimately condemn the act of the killer.

However, now they too will have - are already having - vile rhetoric thrown their way. Rhetoric that threatens them beyond acts, but that too damns them to uncertain hells. And so, it never ends. Even though everyone says they want it to end.

I know what it's like to feel afraid, to wonder in real anxiety what actions hateful, fearful, single-minded words might incite against me, whether I self-identify with a group or whether I'm identified or assigned group membership by someone else. Depending on which facet of my life you're looking at, which words you're pulling from which statement, at which moment, I can point to shockingly vast and varied groups out there and then point to rhetoric that at one time or another put me at the end of their figurative barrel, even to the point of being actually physically threatened and bullied.

If there is a specific group which openly defines itself specifically according to some tenets which absolutely promote violence against others, then perhaps there is some justification for others who want to condemn *the acts* of all self-identifying individuals who hold membership in that group. To condemn the person even in thought akin to capital punishment: it condemns without hope. Why change actions, if the "soul" itself if condemned? But I'd caution that any condemnation should be laser-beam exact and with full understanding of the full consequences that condemnation also levies according to the tone it takes.

I'm only saying that according to my real life experience with those who openly self-identify as "pro life", I've experienced wide-ranging beliefs, very little rhetoric of any sort, and real life compassion-in-action. I've since, in the past few hours, read enough Internet hatred and ugliness spewed against "pro life" to make me fear for some of the individuals I know IRL, shake my head in hopelessness, and force myself to remember that there is one thing greater than both the hatred and fear coming from both sides. And it's the hardest thing. But it's the only thing and it's the only meeting ground on this.

Is there room for "you go first"? Not to my thinking. I only see perpetuation and everyone giving up saying "I tried as much as I could; I am absolved to go on hating and/or fearing". That's just not good enough.

Halushki.com

Dumb-struck by the statistics in Cristina Page's post

Lisa Stone — Mon, 01 Jun 2009 12:03:55 -0500

She writes that:

"In the last year of the Bush administration there were 396 harassing calls to abortion clinics. In just the first four months of the Obama administration that number has jumped to 1401."

This is a harbinger of danger, indeed, and supports her claim that the nation risks a return to the devastating clinic attacks of the late 1990s during the Clinton Administration, as does the National Abortion Federation's data on incidents of extreme violence.

My heart is breaking for the Tiller family and for the nation. Has anyone else read Shannyn Moore's Christian Fundamentalist Terrorism?

Lisa Stone
BlogHer Co-founder
Surfette

BlogHer is non-partisan but our bloggers aren't! Follow our coverage of Politics & News.

Important statistics

Virginia DeBolt — Mon, 01 Jun 2009 08:14:33 -0500

in this article
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cristina-page/the-murder-of-dr-tiller-a_b_...

Virginia DeBolt
BlogHer CE
Web Teacher
First 50 Words

Murder, pure and simple.

ShoreBookworm — Mon, 01 Jun 2009 05:22:51 -0500

I am not an abortion supporter. I would consider myself pro-life except for the association with the term, which is used pejoratively in the media. I do not believe in abortion, but I also do not believe in harrassment, judgement, vandalism, violence and murder.

Abortion is not right for me, the idea makes me sad for all involved, but I cannot judge the people who make that choice. It is not my place in this world. I have to mind myself.

It mystifies me how anyone can be opposed to abortion yet support the murder of someone in cold blood. And I also wonder how anyone could believe that would win their argument?

This is a horrible tragedy all around, indefensible and unjustifiable.

Rhetoric

Suzanne Reisman — Mon, 01 Jun 2009 00:14:40 -0500

I would agree with your comment except that almost every "mainstream" "pro-life" group spouts rhetoric that does not support your very reasonable position. Until organizations like Operation Rescue stop inflaming followers and inciting violence against doctors and patients, it is very hard for me to see this as a knee-jerk reaction. For god's sake, Operation Rescue (until today) had a "Tiller Watch" section stalking the man. Adele Stan at the Huff Post reports that Ann Coulter said, "abortion-clinic doctors and health care personnel who were murdered as either having been shot, "...or, depending on your point of view, had a procedure performed on them with a rifle."

Obviously, people have the right to believe that abortion is murder as much as I have the right to believe that it is not. But the way anti-choice activists encourage their followers makes me scared. It is not knee-jerk and it is not unfair, for me to feel that way. There's too much evidence out there that proves otherwise. Stop the vile rhetoric that condemns me to hell for my beliefs, and I will stop feeling that way.

Suzanne Reisman, Contributing Editor - Feminism & Gender
Campaign for Unshaved Snatch (CUSS) & Other Rants