BlogHer - torture - Comments

Thanks, Barb

Mata H — Thu, 18 Jun 2009 11:04:55 -0500

Interestingly, when I took Hebrew, the professor told us that the word "Shalom" - usually translated as "peace" really had a deeper meaning -- more like "things in their rightful/best place" -- or "things as they shoud be".

Thanks for your comment -- it can be hard to read sites that are strongly opposed to where one is, especially if they are rage-fueled, but it is needful to understand , so bravo.

~~ Contributing Editor, Mata H. also blogs right along at Time's Fool

Got it. Keep going.

Norma156 — Thu, 18 Jun 2009 08:37:01 -0500

Got it. Keep going.

ah Norma, you misread me

Mata H — Thu, 18 Jun 2009 07:17:06 -0500

In no way was I suggesting that this is a hateful country or castigating the populace or being un-optimistic. In fact, there is much in what I wrote about hope. I apologize if it was not brought enough to the fore. But please re-read this And I need to hang on to hope. There is progress being made. Look around. The ever-present media in 2009 deluges us with information and negative images with such frequency that it can be easy to skip over the fact that we have made progress. And that would be even more dangerous.

~~ Contributing Editor, Mata H. also blogs right along at Time's Fool

Mata--That the electorate

Norma156 — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 19:52:51 -0500

Mata--That the electorate (as opposed to the "populace") is more inclusive is evident by the fact that Obama was elected.This is self-evident and inarguable.

I think we are about the same age...I'm 57...so have been around long enough to actually witness the growth of inclusiveness. Friends of mine who had to go to the "colored" section when they were exactly my age...friends who had to "walk the line" to go to University of Mississippi and many more really heart wrenching examples of bigotry are the stuff of our childhoods, teen years and twenties. If the now increasingly reviled boomers did anything, it was to inaugrate this climate of change and inclusiveness.

But unlike you, I don't believe this is a hateful country, perhaps because of my own experience. My family is from the south. Daddy...now gone...had the wit to move us north when I was six. (And, since your beat is religion, I'll say here, thank God he did.) I went to a prep school in Princeton and to Columbia. All of this at the insistence of my father, the southern patriarch. I marched and I protested. He never objected...and I still think it was right.

But my family's roots are in the south. After Daddy died, Mother married her high school sweetheart and returned to the deep south...much to my horror, frankly. So now I visit there frequently to see her.

And, yes, I sometimes encounter incredible bullshit. People, usually aged, who continue to study the Civil War for accounts of their "glorious" forebearers. People, again, usually aged, who will actually discuss the fact their families owned slaves. (I'm proud to say my family were carpetbaggers...the first one who settled in the south was a Protestant minister who was a Union chaplin. Owning slaves was anathama to my glorious ancestors.)

But, my Mother who grew up with this shit, disdains it. After spending 83 years listening to it, she won't have it around her or as any part of her life. And, most of her friends, friends of the same age and background disdain it as well.

So,my own experience as well as the existential experience of the country suggests that bigotry is on the wane.

The Southern Poverty Law Center has done some good work. But merely saying that there are a "staggering 960 hate groups" isn't persuasive. How is "hate group" defined? How many people belong to the hate group? There are a number of people who suggest that James Van Bruen had links to hate groups. Who are these hate groups? Where are they?

Mata, I think I'm fundamentally more optimistic than you are...I really don't see hate around me. (I guess I should admit here that I am an economic conservative and tend to be conservative on most issues. However, I've never seen a persuasive argument against gay marriage and I supported Planned Parenthood twenty five years ago when I was an editorial writer...despite receiving unthinkable material in the mail.)

So, yes, there is hate. But please, oh please, don't suggest there has been no progress. It's ridiculous on its face to suggest it. Instead of castigating the "populace," perhaps for a change you might applaud it. These changes have taken place within a few decades in our lifetimes...really, Mata...it's not a small achievement.

hello Norma

Mata H — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 11:57:57 -0500

My reference to the inauguration was a hope that a kinder an more enthusiastically inclusive America was about to emerge, one which did not just run on a party line.

I do not agree that history has "passed by" hate groups in ths country. This quote is from the Southern Poverty Law Center "The Southern Poverty Law Center has documented a staggering 926 hate groups operating in our country — a more than 50% increase since 2000.Hate group leaders are exploiting the difficult economic times to swell their ranks, and their anti-Semitic, white supremacist propaganda is promoting violence. A neo-Nazi leader was quoted in USA Today saying, "When the economy suffers, people are looking for answers. ...We are the answer for white people."

As for what does and doesn't get a statement from the White House -- I have no idea - but I suspect if every hate crime got a statement, the press room would be running 24/7.

But my point is, how do we move forward? How do we care for ourselves in the interim?

~~ Contributing Editor, Mata H. also blogs right along at Time's Fool

Mata--I find it interesting

Norma156 — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 10:31:31 -0500

Mata--I find it interesting that you begin this post with your dashed hope of "some immediate transformation of the populace" Why on earth should the populace be transformed???And transformed from what into what???

The killing of Dr. Tiller wasn't a "conservative" act...it was a sociopathic act by an individual. Moreover I would note that the right was far quicker to condemn this act than the left was to condemn the killing of twenty-three year old William Long by Abdulhakim Muhammad. (Did the White House ever issue a statement??) Similarly, the killing of Stephen Johns was a horrifying, but isolated act, by a would-be Nazi.

Politically, I'd mention that nothing on the right compares to the on-going hate spewed at Sarah Palin and her family by members of the left.

But this gets into trading left versus right accusations of hate. My point is that many people tend to take an isolated act and generalize it as representative of groups...groups who are usually right of center. My point is proven by the above post which mentions the "vitriol" by conservative blogs, but doesn't, as usual, name names.

Further, I'd note that the populace, at least the small populace I interact with, is more more concerned and worried about their futures and the futures of their children than seething with hatred. For most people, keeping a roof over their heads trumps the gay marriage issue. Trust me on this.

I know there are still isolated pockets of race hatred in our country. But history has passed them by. They are not representative of any kind of mainstream ideology or the "populace." To suggest that they are is not productive.

Finding Peace

BarbD — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 07:22:51 -0500

"Peace. It does not mean to be in a place where there is no noise, trouble, or hard work. It means to be in the midst of those things and still be calm in your heart. - Unknown"

I struggle with this, too. In my effort to not isolate myself in a world surrounded only by my own views, I've been venturing out to read conservative blogs and websites.

Sometimes the vitriol overwhelms me. And I'm not so naive as to believe that I would not have found the same vitriol hurled against people and policies of the previous administration by those who share my politics.

Buddhism teaches us to be the peace we want to find in the world. Still working on that ;-)

All I can say is Ahhhhh (sigh in relief)

Holly Suso — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 01:33:58 -0500

Thank you!

I'm to overwhelmed "and that's ok". I sat on my sofa staring at a silent TV and thought, "what now?" I'm to overwhelmed to look for a job, to pick up these dang dinasaur toys AGAIN, to eat this little bitty Jenny Craig dinner that I don't want, to pack for our move, to return my friends phone calls.

Uh!

Glad I'm not the only one. Thanks Nordette.

Love and Blessings,

Holly S.

http://mymompreneur.com

Zen it all out or Zen out!

Nordette — Sun, 24 May 2009 16:49:06 -0500

I'd be happy to do either, Maryanne. :-) The world will keep turning. I guess we must all learn how to blance without getting dizzy. Thank you for dropping a line.

Nordette Adams is a BlogHer CE & you can find her other stuff through Her 411.

hit the nail on the head

MaryanneLive — Fri, 22 May 2009 10:37:30 -0500

oh my goodness yes! no matter what sphere you blog in it seems like there's an overwhelming amount of options - so much so that it's crippling sometimes! what's the title of that book called? "more is less?" sure seems fitting! not to mention all the things we tend to be overloaded with in "the real world!"

guess we all need to take some time to just "zen it all out" ... MUCH easier said than done. any advice?! maybe i'll incorporate into a blog ;-)

<3 maryanne

https://www.maryannelive.com

Thank you, Wilma

Nordette — Thu, 21 May 2009 19:04:53 -0500

I appreciate your wisdom.

Nordette Adams is a BlogHer CE & you can find her other stuff through Her 411.

Glad it helped.

Nordette — Thu, 21 May 2009 18:52:29 -0500

I think there's such a pressure to be perfect, especially for women, that we forget it's o.k. to let go and admit we're overwhelmed and have a right to step back.

Thank you.

Nordette Adams is a BlogHer CE & you can find her other stuff through Her 411.

Close the door and that is okay

Wilma Ham — Thu, 21 May 2009 18:06:08 -0500

Nordette, this is so great. It shows you haven't lost your common sense and the ability to listen to a very sensible guide which is your heart.

The world is so complicated, we can let so many things intrude and we are left with what to do with it all.
Why do we feel so bad when we can't do something with it all?

I recently through Wallace D Wattle got an insight that keeping our thoughts close to home, focused on things that are close to us and we can influence and where they belong and can do more good, serves us better.
That was liberating and freeing but it took some doing to get my head around that.
We want to but cannot cope with all these big problems.
Now I get that if I live from integrity and do my little best for the good of the world, whatever I decide that is, is actually helping big time.
I don't have to solve and make sense of problems that are not mine and feel too big to comprehend.
I now feel good to do the things I do and I actually stay away from those big things, I keep my thoughts at home and I am certainly less confused.
So I totally can feel where you are coming from and I don't feel bad about closing the door on those.
Not wanting to know however doesn't mean I don't care. It certainly keep my sane though.
And if I need to know, I make sure to take time to get rid of the influence it all has on my thoughts and then I bring them back home.

Wilma Ham

www.wilmasblog.com

Your post gave me the

artpax — Thu, 21 May 2009 16:51:55 -0500

Your post gave me the courage to post about the overwhelm-ed-ness I've been living with for the last six months when I couldn't figure out where to or what to write. (And I didn't even mention the 2 year house remodel in which I've been living, stepping on hacked up furballs in the middle of the night, or taking the huge step of renting an entire island in Second Life... nor did I mention my utter disgust at seeing Dick and Newt as the new faces of the new (purportedly) Republican Party..... ) I think overwhelmed is just how any sentient being tends to be from time to time in this current complex and cosmic dance of life. I'm off to create world peace. LOL.

Nancy

Build Peace

My Life As An Avatar

Yeah, too much stuff

Nordette — Tue, 19 May 2009 21:31:27 -0500

Thank you for the visit, TW. And I must really be on overload b/c I just realized you do Retro-Food. LOL.

Nordette Adams is a BlogHer CE & you can find her other stuff through Her 411.