BlogHer - female bloggers - Comments

Great point

Jill Miller Zimon — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 21:03:12 -0600

Where you say, "And sometimes I have to represent becasue if not, there would be no one at the table. And the prevailing stereotypes would go unchecked and unchallenged. "When and where I enter so goes the Race"

That is true, you are right. Even if we don't want to. That is very, very true.

Jill
Writes Like She Talks

Exactly

Jill Miller Zimon — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 20:58:01 -0600

And then you also want people to realize that if you're not the stereotype they were expecting, chances are, whomever they think is in that stereotype shouldn't be thought about that way either.

Thanks for sharing all those categories! Wow. When we think about, there are so many aren't there?

Me. How about just the category of "me" - Joan Armatrading, Me Myself I - still something I blare.

Jill
Writes Like She Talks

Thanks :)

Jill Miller Zimon — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 20:55:22 -0600

Also not like this isn't a tangly web of ideas and experiences. I always say blogs are like HDTV - because you get to look sooooo closely. I love it.

Jill
Writes Like She Talks

We're all outsiders

alyssaroyse — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 20:31:38 -0600

Damn, that was beautiful. thanks.

Somehow, we've all, as a culture, been so busy identifying ourselves that we've alienated everyone else. huh. there's a whole of of "us and them" going on and not enough "we."

thanks for your reply. it was thoughtful and right on.

assumptions are dangerous things.
___________
Alyssa Royse
JUST CAUSE
make some good news!
www.JustCauseIt.com

that's why conversations matter

alyssaroyse — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 20:28:11 -0600

i almost never get it right the first time. :) it's only when we all chew on things outloud that we can see out own trains of thought and hitch a ride. :)
___________
Alyssa Royse
JUST CAUSE
make some good news!
www.JustCauseIt.com

I love this comment

Erin Kotecki Vest — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 19:22:14 -0600

Babz I think you just clearly stated to me exactly why I am still undecided. Watching people become uncomfortable with these topics, challenging each other...I love it. And I for one am firmly grounded in both candidate's ability to lead, their politics, and their race and gender. I can't ignore it because it is NOT a non-issue in our country. I wish it was, but it's not.

To me their resume's and stances on issues are close enough that I'm forced to think of the bigger picture for our culture and society as a whole and I am very sure that is a valid reason of influence on my vote. Politicians are politicians, I want to know if this will really change anything. I'm hoping, and I think well rounded discussions like we are having proves there is at least something in the air.

Erin

Politics & News Contributing Editor
Queen of Spain

Hey back at you!

Lovebabz — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 18:50:11 -0600

Hey,

When I say your profile picture I thought: Shit that woman looks like me!

I am always asked if I am Jamaican or something--which is fine, I am so used to being asked. And I am always looked at carefully when I am shopping--who can tell I have master degrees by looking at me! Or that i stood in the Oveal Office with then-president Bill Clinton accepting an award for an organization I ran. Nope all they see is a big black woman with a lot of kids who maybe dangerous and will probably rob them blind (LOL)

Our plight often goes un-noticed and so few of us complain about the everyday small injustices that sting and sting and sting. (sigh)

I sowed diamonds in my backyard...

Love,
Babz
www.lovebabz.blogspot.com Personal
www.lovebabz08.wordpress.com Political

Hey!

fabooj — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 18:28:34 -0600

I do know a black woman who is a trained chef. She had dreadlocks to, but had to get rid of them for school.

I have dread locs and I am not of carribean descent and I do not do drugs.

Ugh. Me too...that is one I just try to avoid too.

"I am so perfect so divine so ethereal so surreal. I cannot be comprehended except by my permission. I mean...I...can fly like a bird in the sky." Ego Trippin' by Nikki Giovanni
Visit me at faboo mama

I represent....

Lovebabz — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 18:20:45 -0600

Yep me too, now add:

Black Mother of adopted children

Felon/White Collar Criminal---How many Black women do you know are white collar criminals...overall less than 1% of the 5-14% of federal criminals

Chef--how many Black women do you know are formally trained chefs.

Was elected to public office in a New England State.

I have dread locs and I am not of carribean descent and I do not do drugs.

I am the odd Sister out...all the fucking time. (sigh)

And sometimes I have to represent becasue if not, there would be no one at the table. And the prevailing stereotypes would go unchecked and unchallenged. "When and where I enter so goes the Race"

I walked to the furtile crescent and built the spinx...

Love,
Babz
www.lovebabz.blogspot.com Personal
www.lovebabz08.wordpress.com Politcal

Race or Gender which carries more weight?

Lovebabz — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 18:08:45 -0600

This conversation is rich and this is what I love about this political season- that so many people are having these types of conversations.
I would add that I am fine with folks voting their gender or their race. What I am not fine with is the notion to do so is some emotional psychosis. Look, for the last 20 years...and I am 44 years old, I have heard that women ought to pull together, Black people ought to pull together. We all join groups and clubs based on our comfort levels and gender. I am in a Sorority--the largest African American Sorority in the world, Delta Sigma Theta, Inc. Carol Mosely Braun is my sorority Sister and she ran for President--she is Black and a woman. The problem I am having with all of this is the notion that women have a candidate they can rally behind in Hillary Clinton and somehow she isn't good enough? African Americans have a candidate they can rally around and somehow he isn't good enough. If it were solely about qualifications and likeability we all would vote with our eyes closed. But now we have to ask ourselves the hard questions--will having a woman in the oval office further womens issues? And what the fuck are women's issues? Will having a Black man in the Oval Office undo 400 years of oppression, predjudice, racism and a general maligning of all things Black in America? This moment is what we all have worked for and we are here and we are uncomfortable with it. I am even fine with that becuse now we have to deal with our hidden racism and our gender exclusions. And for Black women this is difficult. My other Soror, Paula Giddings wrote a book--"when and where I enter" meaning when and where I renter so does the race. Barack has the weight of the entire Balck community on his shoulders--13-15 million of us! and Hillary has to represent women dead and or alive. And the reality is THEY CAN"T and that is what hurts and that is why we are having all this drama. No one can be all things to all people 24/7, but we can't hear that and we can't accept that.

As I said this is rich. This conversation is worth having and continuing through-out the election.

Love,
Babz
www.lovebabz.blogspot.com Perosnal
www.lovebabz08.wordpress.com Political

You talk of being left out

fabooj — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 18:07:55 -0600

On Sunday, I had a conference cal/web meeting with various women of color, all age, education and economic scales discussing this issue with the campaign. The youngest was 18 year old college student (mom of 3 kids). The oldest was my aunt who is almost 70. There were 23 women on the call. We were about an hour into the call before someone realized that there were no white females represented. Not even a half-white person. I asked why. My cousin, said, "Well, if we had a white person on the call, would we talk freely? Could we without hurting someone's feelings?" There were mumbles of 'no'.

I mentioned that it was odd, the fact that we were discussing how people like Steinem may view us (as non-contemporaries, that is) and yet, not one of us actually considered inviting our own Steinem. I know that my best friend, who is white, would have loved being on the call and could have contributed a lot. She grew up in a poor, Latino neighborhood and that was all she knew before moving to the burbs down south. Yet, for whatever reason, it didn't cross my mind to invite her to the call.

When I talked to her about it, she said the same thing you did. That now she's feeling left out of discussions. People see her blond hair/green eyes and assume a lot about her. She knows that at her school she's excluded from issues handling a Latino kid even though she speaks Spanish and could probably read the child better than any of the other teachers. She knows that the black teachers don't think she'll "get it" when they discuss certain things. She said, "After my first year at that school, I spent the next two years trying to establish my 'person of color' creds. It didn't make me more accessible, it made me look like I was desperately saying, 'But my best friends are black!'." It's been really frustrating for her and I hadn't even realized it because she's always been my chica. Now extend that out to white females who aren't my best friend, or I don't even know.

On the flip of that, I know that I'm excluded because of my race or my economic status or my education. I'm excluded by everyone, including black women. So, I completely get how you feel.

It makes a lot of sense

fabooj — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 17:46:43 -0600

It seems that I'm always the representative

The black person.
The black female.
The college educated black person.
The college educated black female.
The Muslim person.
The Muslim female.
The Muslim females who's Sunni AND Black.
The black female married to a non-black man.
The mom.
The black mom.
The black mom who lived in an upscale neighborhood (that was before I blessedly moved).
The mom of biracial kids (I actually detest this category the most)
The hetero person (as most of my friends are LGB and/orT)
The WAHM
And yes, the blogger.

I completely get trying not to be THE representative. It's a lot of pressure and you don't want to make an impression on someone to give them the wrong idea about that sub-group. It gets to the point where, I have to drive home that sometimes I'm talking about ME and my experiences.

I understand

fabooj — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 17:38:30 -0600

Funny, but your post started a whole other thing on my friend's listserv among the 40+ crowd. Regardless of age, they focused on the age thing. It just goes to show that there are so many different dynamics and facets that there isn't one person in the world who could write something that encompasses everyone. Unless they right about stubbing a toe. LOL!!!

I wasn't as artful as I thought, I think!

Jill Miller Zimon — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 17:31:39 -0600

What you wrote here "BUT, what I really want is for that not to be the case. Understand that your actions IMPACT others, but do not necessarily represent them." was exactly what I was intending to imply/have you infer. Sorry about that!! Long-windedness can be an affliction of mine. lol

But yes - that is exactly the point I was trying to make. Thank you for making it/clarifying it for me.

Jill
Writes Like She Talks

Point well taken, and, but....

alyssaroyse — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 15:50:02 -0600

I think you're right, and there is certainly something humbling in thinking that what you do does represent a world larger than you.

BUT, what I really want is for that not to be the case. Understand that your actions IMPACT others, but do not necessarily represent them.

My most current case in point was the blog post i wrote called, "I resolve to NOT want to lose weight." In it, i discuss being almost 40, my body not looking anything like it did when i was in my 20's - sagging, puffing, drooping, dripping - and still feeling happy and proud and free in it. The picture that i originally included with the post was of me at Burning Man in a goofy outfit that really could only be worn by someone who was comfortable in her body. There wasn't much to it - but a lot more than a bikini, for reference.....

The outcry was massive.

1. As a representative of women business leaders, i should not be seen in such an outfit.
2. As a small woman (i'm a szie 2) i have no business discussing body image.

I was slack-jawed. I am not a representative of all women in business. I am me. And if i represent anything larger than that, it is that women - even those of us who run businesses with investment capital - are multi-faceted. We are smart, sexy, fun, generous, sharp, gentle etc.... And I want to be seen as ALL of those things. So does my behavior impact others? I hope so. The impact I hope to have is to help create a world in which we can all be EVERYTHING that we are without shame. Part of what I am is someone who likes to go to Burning Man, walk around in a pink wig and nothing else, and that's okay. (And no, i didn't put that picture on the web site.)

The other one, about my being too small to have body image issues, really concerned me. After all, most of our struggles are more universal than we think. We have all grown up and are bombarded by the same issues. In fact, the fact that even I am impacted by those messages was precisely the point - we have created a cadre of iconic images such that NONE OF US are ever good enough.... our images are so distorted that nothing even vaguely real resonates as being "good."

These are, of course, not race issues - which is where this thread started - but to your point, we do hold individuals responsible for representing their "group," without giving them the affirmative dignity of self identity or the responsibility of claiming their impact.

And it supports the idea that we have each decided what a "struggle" is, and tend not to legitimate anyone who's struggle is different than our own.
___________
Alyssa Royse
JUST CAUSE
make some good news!
www.JustCauseIt.com