BlogHer - GLBT - Comments

Anxiety in the Locker Room (or Lack Thereof)

Liz67 — Sun, 29 Jun 2008 10:06:53 -0500

     I am a 40-year-old woman who swims/works out at an old Parks Dept. recreational facility which is short on decorum but very affordable. While quite a few ladies are comfortable being naked in the locker room, many still are not. I guess you could attribute this to the conventional fostering of a mindset through the constant inundation of "we're not good enough" and "supermodel like" images from the media.
     Having transitioned from MTF post-sex reassignment surgery years ago, I realise how evident it is that we women are far more scrutinised (unjustly) in terms of our appearance by society, while this is a relative non-issue for men. We further enable this by being overly critical and self-depreciating of ourselves.
     My friends (who were born female and most of whom are in their late 30's to late 40's) and I are highly comfortable with our customary routine of undonning our swimsuits following swim, walking to and using the communal showers and thus returning to our lockers naked. While we don't look like supermodels, we work hard to take care of our bodies, and feel it's silly to hide ourselves since we're all women anyway. Ironically, while several of the younger ladies opt for seclusion, most of the 50 y.o.+ women in our locker room are extremely comfortable to the point where they'll converse with us for several minutes whilst naked. The camaraderie developed is a primary facet of positive female bonding (in a non-sexualised manner, of course.)
     Lessons learned, I guess we should just be generally more comfortable within ourselves, as this is what we will radiate to others.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Liz Brogan, Brooklyn, NY

Our view of gender is limited...

nelle2nelle — Sat, 28 Jun 2008 20:23:10 -0500

and to be honest, not something I gave much thought to for most of my life.

My efforts were mostly devoted inward, and only in the last decade did the broader issues of gender, physical sex, and orientation begin to flow through my mind.

Now I've come to believe the 3 produce a combination that is unique to each of us. So it is not hard to imagine some societies developed very unique systems to satiate the needs of their society.

I've read on the Albanian and Samoan approaches before, as with the Mahu of Hawaii. I hope we come to realise the complexity of each of the elements of our sexual identity, and from that will come some rather fascinating and diverse permutations. Along with those things, perhaps one day we won't have to be seen as emulating men to be seen as worthy of equality - not only in the legal sense, but in the outlook of society sense.

nelle

Gee, thanks. Even if you

no_I_am_zoe — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 07:54:47 -0500

Gee, thanks. Even if you are just saying that cause I called you one of my favorite bloggers.

Unfortunately, many

no_I_am_zoe — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 07:53:32 -0500

Unfortunately, many medications can cause low libido. I am no stranger to this issue. It's not easy to work through.

Very good points

Suzanne Reisman — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 14:36:34 -0500

I completely agree that it is distressing that behaviors associated as female are considered inferior to those that are masculine. It is definitely easier for women to take on male traits than men to act "feminine" in the west. Certainly, this is reflected in many ways in social structure, from no one blinking an eye when a married woman uses her husband's name but finding it odd if a husband uses his wife's name to your example of it being normal for women to wear pants but men can't wear skirts. Still, I think that women who act too manly are very much castigated by society for abandoning their "innate" femininity.

I think that is why katooeys are so interesting in Thailand. Generally, they are men who identify as female, and people just accept that is who they are. No one over there seems disturbed that a katooey would want to act feminine.

Suzanne Reisman, Contributing Editor - Feminism & Gender
Campaign for Unshaved Snatch (CUSS) & Other Rants

Well done, Z

Syd — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:45:15 -0500

You outdid yourself on this one. Great read.

FOR SUZANNE REISMAN

osoleomar48 — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:13:16 -0500

Tank you for your post is very iteresting for me, but i think about that whit someone question mark....(????) YOU KNOW!Sorry !They ( the Albanese women) left in Italy an undutyfull influence in our society...

AH! AH! AH!.. for MASHADUTOIT on her comment

osoleomar48 — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:56:11 -0500

My name is "osoleomar" that mean "sun &sea" Do you like it?I'm an artist that way u.I live in Italy and i loved your comment on this post.The argument of post is very serius and iteresting for me too .Look, i love much to observe any problematic argument about all people's wolrd with the irony and a smile.That my way of life.Have a good everythinks.See u!Sorry for my english, but i'm beginner...

women as men

mashadutoit — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:32:07 -0500

I'm not so sure that women who dress and act like men are treated as freaks. I can wear jeans and a T shirt, have VERY short hair, wear boots, overalls and work in a foundry (as I did when I was younger) and most people I came in contact with did not blink.

I can act in so called "masculine" ways in my workplace - be assertive, un-emotional, etc and no one thinks anything is very odd. They may not think I am woman of the year, but I'm not treated as a freak.

But if one of my male colleagues were to wear the female equivalent of Jeans and Tshirt - what would that be - Skirt and blouse? And do the female equivalent of working in a foundry - knitting? and behave in what is considered "feminine" ways - be emotional, cry in public - or do any of the things I can do any day at my work - yes, he would be considered a freak even in my very easy going work environment.

I think its disturbing that we have unthinkingly adapted the clothes and habits of men, and still consider feminine traits to be "weak" or "strange" or "girly".

on a positive note

bleu — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 09:52:46 -0500

Hey I learned a new word though.

hermeneutic

Cool beans thanks for that!!!

Great post

bleu — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 09:51:09 -0500

I take it you have never seen the show before and I have to say that this show was such a big disappointment, on so many levels. I also will say the previews from the next show make me feel that this season has really taken a turn for the worse. I watched quite a few the first season and most were very good shows. Most were about enlightening others in numerous ways. Most involved people who were open to changing their views, or amending them at least.

This show was with someone who was never intending to change anything, she said so from the start, she was there to "stand by her beliefs" and went into it defensive as if she herself believed she was facing an "army" (her words) of heathens. (On a side note I know heathens, and some are just the bomb)

She kept saying she could see they were good parents but shouldn't be allowed to parent, and then how she was sad they could not be friends. Sure, let me disagree with everything about you, work to legislate away your human rights but hey we should still be friends, what's wrong with you that you won't still be friends, that we can't agree to disagree.

In my mind she DID change her views, but she could never say so because of her prior brainwashing so instead she just contradicts herself over and over.

And do not get me started on the Family Research guy and the lasy after him, that infuriated me even more.

The thing is Mel, there was no point to this one. It was horribly produced and horribly put together, but maybe if enough other people see how bad it was, just maybe something good can come of it. Who knows.

As always thanks for the wonderful post.

Bleu

http://soulbliss.blogspot.com

Excellent post! I was

no_I_am_zoe — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 09:42:28 -0500

Excellent post! I was going to post about this episode of 30 Days, but I haven't had time to watch it yet. Your frustration in watching a one hour episode where a person does not change there mind and sticks to their religious convictions, is but a taste of the frustration I deal with with my parents, on a regular basis. We just have to agree to disagree.

I too don't quite understand the point of including the expert from the Family Research Council. Maybe they thought they we providing balance. I'm sure I'd be infuriated by hearing the quote. And if you were bothered by Morgan's coverage of donor insemination, maybe I don't shouldn't watch this episode.

Only have a moment...

nelle2nelle — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 05:55:39 -0500

but can readily explain mine as a combination of: estradiol, spironolactone, and personal sanity. :)

Good reading!

nelle

Things are changing!

An alien earthling — Sun, 22 Jun 2008 02:16:00 -0500

Snigdha, though Tamil society has always been a patriarchal society, women were given adequate respect. But now, things are changing for the better with respect to women's rights in Tamil Nadu. Tamils gave up surnames because they were usually the names of the castes and sub-castes. Modern Tamil names have two components - a first name and a father's name or initials that represent the father's name. A married woman used to change her initials after marriage i.e. replace her father's name/initial(s) with that of her husband. Now, a married woman may just add her husband's name/initial(s) to her name or may not make any change to her name at all, just like married men. If men do not make any change to their names after marriage, why should women? For instance, my mother only uses my grandfather's(her father's) name/initial after her name and not that of my father(her husband).

I don't know if you have heard about this, but some time ago, the law in Tamil Nadu was changed to allow a child to use his/her mother's name/initial(s) after his/her first name! This is a huge positive step with regard to women's rights. It comes as a big boon to the children of women who were divorced or abandoned by their husbands.

I am not a guy with a mediæval, feudal mindset who regards women as the "property" of men or as "child-bearers". I would like women to get the same rights as men, if not more. I firmly believe that having children is the sole right of the woman concerned, and not a duty! And just like with any other right, the woman can choose to either exercise it or not! If a woman wants to have five or seven children, that is fine as long as it does not harm her health and as long as the couple is able support so many children. If a married woman chooses not to have a child, that is fine as it is her right as she is the person who is going to bear the child. Far from being bothered, I would greatly respect a woman who does not have a kid or chooses not to, or says she does not want to have a child as it requires a lot of courage to even say such a thing in our patriarchal society!

There's always hope!

snigdhasen — Fri, 20 Jun 2008 23:08:57 -0500

Hey Raj, yes, I read about Tamil Nadu univs recognizing transgenders. That's a positive step, right?

I agree with you that Indian women come under much emotional and physical pressure if they don't have children, and many times this is forced upon us. But that shouldn't come in the way of lesbians -- they may want to be parents. And with access to options like artificial insemination and adoption, I'm hoping gays and lesbians will be able to make a choice, too.

I also hear quite a few (urban, educated, heterosexual) couples of our generation are opting out of being parents -- you know, the double-income-no-kids group? I guess, over-the-top busy schedules, higher ambitions, and more disposable income have all contributed to these choices. It also means women are either feeling less pressured or couldn't care less about the pressure to be moms.

But yes, many of us continue to have to deal with it. That's another story altogether :)

As an Indian guy, does it bother you if a married woman doesn't have a kid or chooses not to, or actually says she doesn't want to?