Despicable Me's Despicable Theme

really?? this is a kids movie.. and i'm sure when kids watch this movie they aren't going to be focusing on things like adoption. i am 17 and even I didn't think about it. these movies are made to be fun and enjoyable, so quit focusing on all the little imperfections and just ENJOY IT! get over yourself and stop depriving your children just because of your ridiculously high standards.

I think that to fairly critique something, one must see it.

I caught this film over the weekend, having known nothing about it (it was playing before the one I wanted to see at the drive-in) and being generally averse to movies geared towards kids. It was better than I was expecting from this genre.

My parents also did not tiptoe around potentially sensitive topics and I was not shielded from films. If something popped up in one that was unrealistic, then Mom always let me know that in real life, things did not really happen that way. I think I turned out well-adjusted.

This is the first time I've ever read your blog. As an adopted child who has since connected with her birth mother, I have to say. I will keep reading!

I saw Dispacable Me with my daughter and her friend. Unaware that there was even an adoption theme in it. (I know, I should've research more). Luckily, my daughter knows I'm adopted but we've had lots of discussions about what that means. So this ended up with a very good discussion on adoption and what it's really like.

My daughter is not adopted herself, so I think it was easier for her to digest because it wasn't directly personal.

Thanks for some insightful thoughts on adoption. I struggled with it for many years, partly because I am bi-racial but raised by a white family in a white town.

But I understand that difficult choice a mother makes to choose adoption. I wish more people respected the great sacrifice.

http://accidentalreflections.blogspot.com/

for sticking to her convictions regarding not seeing 'Despicable Me' and for honestly responding to everyone who posts (replies) to her blog.

Although I don't agree with everything she says, I think she is doing what she feels is right for her and her family. As what everyone should be allowed to do and not be chided or chastised for their choices.

I have read nearly every post in here and I think they are all very good. Everyone is saying what they feel, in a 'no-holds barred' kind of way.

I will continue reading these posts...only because I'm curious to see if anything new creeps up.

Donna

Jenna, you're right-I didn't read the post and think about it from anyone else's perspective. I was offended and shocked (though from an "outsider's point of view", it really looked like name calling and judgement) I didn't think about how I hear the word queer used to describe many ordinary and often brilliant things in this world. I heard queer and I assumed, wrongly on my part, that this blog entry had taken a sad and nasty turn. Denise has the choice to identify and label herself and her kids in any way she wants, as do the other contributors and commentators on this site; if queer doesn't bother her, then I guess it doesn't and as you said, that's ok. It bothers me, it always will, and I will never call myself or my children (to answer your question Denise, yes I am raising a child-a 2 year old boy-and I also surrendered my rights to my daughter who is now 9) or my friends or a stranger queer. That's my choice, and its ok too. I don't read your blog Jenna, but I think maybe I will.

I agree with TW when it comes to the parents needing to be out of the picture to allow the story. Parents, generally speaking, don't allow their young children to gallivant across forests in the middle of the night or what have you. Even Bambie's mother died at the beginning of the movie.

I'm starting to grow tired of it as a device, though, because if there are so many other fantastical elements in a story, why not have parents who came along on the adventures or were aware of their children's whereabouts?

I understand what Jenna is saying that she has a nontraditional situation at home and doesn't want to push her son's buttons. I applaud her for being mindful of what will and won't set off her son. I also understand as a woman (we are women in addition to being parents) not wanting to explain why she gave her daughter up for adoption to a child too young to fully grasp what she must've been going through at the time.

I understand what Denise was saying -- if movie uses dog bowls (I haven't seen the movie, so I don't know if it was obvious the guy didn't know the difference between adopting a puppy and adopting kids) to portray not understanding adoption -- what would they use to portray not understanding gay- and lesbian-headed families? The mind staggers. I'm sure we'll see an animated film in the next ten years with gay or lesbian characters -- I hope it'll be handled well. Read Lesbian dad's review of The Kids Are All Right ( http://www.blogher.com/its-family-affair ) in which she writes:
I will never forget sitting, or rather eventually slinking down lower and lower in my seat, in a suburban Minneapolis movie theater watching Basic Instinct in the early 1990s. A mainstream Hollywood movie that had a lesbian in it! Plus a bisexual woman! I had to go, and took with me my gal sweetie, a friend, and her gal sweetie. The overwhelmingly heterosexual crowd watched placidly as blood splattered the screen in the opening scene, and then – I’m not making this up – later groaned and called out in disgust when Sharon Stone kisses her female lover. For Michael Douglass’ benefit. Which lover, to no one’s surprise, turns out to be a homicidal, suicidal, man-hating basket case.
That woke my straight self up a little bit. I am forced to own my ignorance every day here at BlogHer as I am again and again startled that I've been walking through the world not noticing things that are important to other people. I've never given a second thought to how lesbians are portrayed in film. I'd forgotten there was a bisexual element in Basic Instinct. But I was right there in the theater with Lesbian Dad when I read her post, realizing how really horrible it would feel to have people in a theater calling out their disgust for your sexual orientation, the relationship you have with the date sitting next to you in that very theater. So I understand completely Denise's concern over how gays and lesbians will be portrayed.

We all have to make our own movie-going choices, but as someone who gleaned most of her understanding about anyone who wasn't white, straight and German for the first 18 years of life from films and television -- it would've been nice to see some more movies in which women of color weren't maids or gay men weren't mastermind criminals. It would've been nice not to have to unlearn a bunch of ridiculous stereotypes. And I won't be exposing my daughter to them without a detailed discussion (if we happen upon them), because I sure wish someone would've told me how horrible the donkey centaurs were in Fantasia instead of showing me and my 100% white class the film three times in elementary school without addressing it AT ALL.

We have to care about the themes in kids' movies and at least discuss them. This movie might be innocuous to most -- but it's worth a discussion, and I'm glad Jenna opened it.

Rita Arens authors Surrender Dorothy and is the editor of Sleep is for the Weak. She is BlogHer's assignment and syndication editor.

I don't agree 100% with Jenna either but I understand and support the decisions she is making regarding her own children. She knows them best and odds are high that if I was in her exact same position, I'd make the same choice.

I was thinking about this last night - change this from an animated film to a regular movie. Would these animated movies, with real actors, be appropriate for a 4 year old?

~Denise
BlogHer Community Manager
Life. Flow. Fluctuate.

I normally roll my eyes at critics. The only critic quoted here was for an explanation of why the movie writers are doing what they're doing. I relied heavily on blog reviews to form my opinions, not all of which were quoted here due to space constraints. In fact, movie critics largely (but not totally) loved this movie.

Jenna Hatfield (@FireMom ( http://twitter.com/FireMom )), from Stop, Drop and Blog ( http://stopdropandblog.com ) and The Chronicles of Munchkin Land ( http://thechroniclesofmunchkinland.com ), is a freelance writer and newspaper photographer.

While it is sad that, with your current issues, this is not the time for you to see this movie, I don't feel it is right that you trash this movie.

Having said that, I understand you have issues, and for that I am sorry. But come on...merely going by what the 'critics' have said? Really...I don't take what a critic says at face value because generally they have their own agenda and want to get paid to talk bad about any movie that is out there.

Donna

I disagree with the poster's view of the film (though I understand given her situation why she wouldn't jump up and down over it or watch it), but I'm mainly piping up to say that I understood what you and Jenna meant regarding Queer and Disney, ect. perfectly. xo

I read at some point an interview with an author I believe about why children never have parents in books/tv/movies-he said "you need to get the parents out of the way to allow the story". There are orphans in abundance, parents who are never there, boarding schools, children living with a parental proxy (aunt, grandmother, sister) Rarely do children in books live with a "real" set of parents. (teen problem novels sometimes have both parents but they usually have some issue or are clueless) Barbie-parentless. Nancy Drew-motherless, nearly fatherless in a way, housekeeper/mother stand in is often out of the picture for one reason or another. I remember as a book thirsty kid that maybe my life would really be interesting if I was like book characters and an orphan. No, I didn't want my parents dead...it just seemed orphans were cooler smarter and tougher. Yes, I might start out like the beginning of Annie...but still...she had fun. Note: even the Peanuts didn't have "real adults" in their life.

I suppose the fact that Red Riding Hood is a rape allegory and most real non-sanitized fairy tales and nursery rhymes are truly horrific means I had to either get over squeamish or share them with my kids. Unfortunately for some of the kids it means I shared a softer version and they don't understand my feelings about the stories.

On the other hand, my kids aren't orphans and have a hard time figuring out their current count of parents...more than two but how so? No adopted children among them. We suspect a changeling or two sometimes. My 14-year-old worries about my death for various reasons unclear to me. I am not likely to push a novel where the mother dies on her anytime soon because it isn't developmentally appropriate, for my child, at this time. I think that is something we need as parents to do--read to see if the book, movie, show is right for our child at this point in time. We don't just hear "Great adoption theme" and decide this is the story for our child. We don't suggest a happy ending teen pregnancy movie to a 14-year-old who wants to get pregnant to someone who loves them. We don't show the tidy-bowl man going down the drain in his boat to a potty training child.

Retro-Food.com

Do you have children? Have you raised them to know how and when to use words like queer or dyke? Do you have children who have claimed any of the GLBTQI labels for themselves?

I have indeed taught my six (innocent?) children what all of those words mean, how they can be used to harm people, and how they can be used to empower people and to respect everyone's right to choose their labels and wear them with pride.

My use of the word Queer, on an adult site, as a lesbian, to discuss how media uses trendy situations and personal issues to make money was harmful to innocent children - how, exactly?

I was not speaking about queer children. I was not calling any children names. (for the record I have a couple of self-identified queer children and some self-identified straight children and some who haven't figured out their orientation yet.)

What I said was that I thought the next trendy topic to be featured by animated film makers would be queer relationships. Will those be Gay/lesbian/bisexual/transgendered/queer/intersexed children? No idea.

I'm sorry you aren't comfortable with the queer label, or my use of the word queer. It only bothers me when it's used to attack another human being. Then again, all sorts of words can be used to attack another person, it's a shame isn't it. It isn't always a label that's harmful - it's often the venom behind the simplest, safest words that's the most harmful.

~Denise
BlogHer Community Manager
Life. Flow. Fluctuate.

We haven't yet, though initially for different reasons. My kids weren't even of movie viewing interest when Meet the Robinsons was released. My older son hadn't yet discovered Cars and had just taken an interest in everyone's favorite train, Thomas, at the time. My youngest son wasn't born yet. As such, I didn't need to think about/consider/self-argue any of the issues presented in that movie. And, as it didn't really "take off" like some movies, I wasn't presented with any toys/clothing/etc that piqued an interest in the boys once they were interested in movies. I'm sure we'll see it someday, but as for now, it's not even on our radar.

Good question though!

Jenna Hatfield (@FireMom ( http://twitter.com/FireMom )), from Stop, Drop and Blog ( http://stopdropandblog.com ) and The Chronicles of Munchkin Land ( http://thechroniclesofmunchkinland.com ), is a freelance writer and newspaper photographer.

Actually, I wish they would have done a little more in the post-placement phase... other than play a guitar. That was actually my biggest pet peeve.

You know, other than the icky adoptive father come on part. Eeeeeeeew.

Jenna Hatfield (@FireMom ( http://twitter.com/FireMom )), from Stop, Drop and Blog ( http://stopdropandblog.com ) and The Chronicles of Munchkin Land ( http://thechroniclesofmunchkinland.com ), is a freelance writer and newspaper photographer.

I was agreeing with Denise that Disney could never do justice to the concepts/issues/etc that those identifying as queer, a word some might argue can be viewed as derogatory, but as Denise says, most don't view it that way. If you're a twelve year old hurling insults, I can see it might be viewed that way. Neither of us were using it in any such manner. The word itself is used all over our site. Give it a search.

You're not really reading my post, are you? I, too, am a birth mother. I relinquished the daughter mentioned earlier in the post. I am dealing with that fallout, learning that the decision to relinquish doesn't just affect the birth mother, the adoptive parents and the adoptee. It has had an outstanding, and not always in the good sense of the word, affect on my sons. My oldest son is just beginning to vocalize his displeasure with the fact that I "gave away" his sister. So, really, no, we're not in a place where we can view this movie. And it's okay. Really, it is. Just like you're okay. We're all okay.

I'm amazed at how people simply didn't care enough to read the words in this post. But I'm okay with that, too. Because we're still not seeing the movie. ;)

Jenna Hatfield (@FireMom ( http://twitter.com/FireMom )), from Stop, Drop and Blog ( http://stopdropandblog.com ) and The Chronicles of Munchkin Land ( http://thechroniclesofmunchkinland.com ), is a freelance writer and newspaper photographer.

Denise,

You may identify as queer, that is your choice as "one of them" as you so articulately stated. But the issue I was commenting on was not your self-identification it was the destructive affects that such labeling has on children and their perception of the gay community. Yes, the acronym LGBTIQ does include the term queer, but does that give anyone the right to say it or teach it to their innocent child? Do you teach your own children/nieces/nephews to use terms like fag or dyke? I know plenty of people who identify as such, but would rather my own children never EVER say those words. Remember, we are talking about children here, not grown up queers.

Thank you.

~Denise
BlogHer Community Manager
Life. Flow. Fluctuate.

Denise!

(Whose post I did not see while I was posting mine.)

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't that what the "Q" stands for in "LGBTIQ"? If so many people self-identify as "queer" wouldn't they expect to be called "queer"?

I used the word queer because I am one and do not find it derogatory or offensive.

I believe Jenna was shuddering at the idea that Disney would be able to create a queer character that was portrayed in any real way - which was the point I originally attempted to make.

~Denise
BlogHer Community Manager
Life. Flow. Fluctuate.

Out of curiosity, did you see Meet the Robinsons? If so what did you think of it?

First, I feel compelled to address @Denise and @JennaHatfield in regard to the final statement in Denise's comment: "Next trend-queers in animated film." First and foremost, where do you get off using derogatory and abusive slang terminology such as queer?! That's absurd and disturbing and even more horrifying is @JennaHatfield's condoning of such ignorant language. @JennaHatfield, you shudder to think that a LGBTIQ person could be portrayed to your child as a decent, compassionate, caring and all-around good character in an animated cartoon? I shudder to think of what you are teaching your children and the burden of ignorance that you are strapping them with.
Secondly, to vilify the character in the smart, funny and HONEST film "Juno" is simply childish and inane. As a young woman, a young woman who identifies as a LESBIAN (the horror!), a young woman who accidentally got pregnant when she was 17 and gave up her child immediately after birth, you have straight-out (forgive the pun) offended me. Get over yourself and your high and mighty personal principles, quit publishing ignorant and senseless drivel about your children's plight with being wanted and loved vs. Disney/Pixar's quest to desensitize and brutalize them, and think before you type. I read 'blogher.com' knowing that my personal point of view will often not be represented by the stories and commentary, but never, NEVER have I been so blown away by the utter cruelty and ignorance of a blogger. I will think more than twice before reading anything on blogher again. Dear, you are the despicable one.

I agree that it didn't advocate for open adoption, but I don't think there was anything in there that was so very unrealistic. Even if there weren't enough scenes showing her decision process, surely the heartbreaking scene in her hospital bed should have helped pacify those who were irate over it.

I was somewhat ambivalent myself but there were some who didn't approve of, and this is a short list:

1. The "ease" with which Juno came to her decision. I argued that they did show a few scenes, but I was argued with right back. I agree they could have delved into a *bit* more as it's not an easy, flippant, penny-saver decision.

2. The adoption agency worker was awful.

3. The adoptive father creepy storyline. Creepy. Really, really creepy.

4. The average age for a birth mother (meaning the woman who decides to place) is actually in her early 20's. Birth mothers (and fathers) are fed of up of being typecast as the irresponsible teenager.

5. The strong resistance to open adoption as if it was a Really Bad Thing.

Oh, the list goes on. There were some gems in the storyline (the one conversation Juno has with her dad as an example). Really, it wasn't the worst portrayal ever (see: Lifetime movies), but it still doesn't do anything for open adoption. Which is where I come back to: I know it's fiction. Do the teenagers for whom the movie was marketed?

Jenna Hatfield (@FireMom ( http://twitter.com/FireMom )), from Stop, Drop and Blog ( http://stopdropandblog.com ) and The Chronicles of Munchkin Land ( http://thechroniclesofmunchkinland.com ), is a freelance writer and newspaper photographer.

What was so negative about the portrayal of adoption in JUNO?

From the (myriad of) reviews I've read, there are lots of "funny things" in the movie. But it's just one we're not going to be seeing in the theater, nor am I rushing out to buy it. I figure someday we'll all see it, but now, with our current issues, is not the time.

Jenna Hatfield (@FireMom ( http://twitter.com/FireMom )), from Stop, Drop and Blog ( http://stopdropandblog.com ) and The Chronicles of Munchkin Land ( http://thechroniclesofmunchkinland.com ), is a freelance writer and newspaper photographer.

Which is exactly why we waited four and a half years to take our oldest son to the theater in the first place. His sensory sensitivities made that an impossibility for a very long time. He does quite well now, though, and he's always super proud (though he still doesn't like the volume -- neither do I).

Jenna Hatfield (@FireMom ( http://twitter.com/FireMom )), from Stop, Drop and Blog ( http://stopdropandblog.com ) and The Chronicles of Munchkin Land ( http://thechroniclesofmunchkinland.com ), is a freelance writer and newspaper photographer.

There are lots of opportunities for me to discuss adoption with my sons. Lots. Daily. In positive, reinforcing and awesome ways. I don't think I need to purposefully expose them to things that I don't deem appropriate in order to teach them a lesson. With that line of thought, I should probably hand them a Playboy and use it as a teaching moment, no?

Jenna Hatfield (@FireMom ( http://twitter.com/FireMom )), from Stop, Drop and Blog ( http://stopdropandblog.com ) and The Chronicles of Munchkin Land ( http://thechroniclesofmunchkinland.com ), is a freelance writer and newspaper photographer.

I am glad that they were non-issues for your family!

Jenna Hatfield (@FireMom ( http://twitter.com/FireMom )), from Stop, Drop and Blog ( http://stopdropandblog.com ) and The Chronicles of Munchkin Land ( http://thechroniclesofmunchkinland.com ), is a freelance writer and newspaper photographer.

Please visit The Chronicles of Munchkin Land ( http://thechroniclesofmunchkinland.com ) and see if we treat adoption like a dirty secret. It's almost laughable.

Jenna Hatfield (@FireMom ( http://twitter.com/FireMom )), from Stop, Drop and Blog ( http://stopdropandblog.com ) and The Chronicles of Munchkin Land ( http://thechroniclesofmunchkinland.com ), is a freelance writer and newspaper photographer.

I'm sorry you feel that way. But, really, I don't have to see a movie with something called a Box of Shame to know, without question, that it is not appropriate for my children. That's the awesome thing about being a mom: knowing my kids. :)

Jenna Hatfield (@FireMom ( http://twitter.com/FireMom )), from Stop, Drop and Blog ( http://stopdropandblog.com ) and The Chronicles of Munchkin Land ( http://thechroniclesofmunchkinland.com ), is a freelance writer and newspaper photographer.

I agree with the blogher that Disney themes can be harsh and some dialogue can be cringe-worthy (the worst for me is from Snow White - "By the powers of Hell..."), but I believe these themes can be teachable moments.

I have children and several adopted children in my extended family. The themes of abandonment in these films are non-issues! The main reason is that they weren't abandoned! They were and are wanted by their adoptive families and are not treated any differently. There has to come a point as parents and Aunts and Uncles when we don't give the children the ability to use the fact that they are adopted as an excuse to misbehave just because they are adopted. Somehow we have to teach them that although they were adopted, they can't go through life using the excuse of adoption as a way of manipulation.

I'm with Imperfectparent on this one - I don't think that there's anything wrong with kids movies delving into sensitive subjects. When I was a kid, I found a great deal of comfort in Disney films (and other kid films) that dealt with divorce, absent parents and "evil" step-parents. I was going through all of that and it helped to know that these sorts of issues happened to a lot of kids and that the subjects weren't as shameful or painful as I had thought. They helped me come to grips with some tough stuff and for that I am, quite truly, grateful.

I think it might be a bit much to gang up on this film for having a "poor" depiction of adoption. I haven't seen it, but I have seen a lot of other kids films (as an impressionable child no less) that handled the same subject in ways that probably, judging by the conversation here, also would have been deemed distasteful. I didn't grow up thinking that was what real adoption was like, nor did I have reason to take any of it to heart.

I think we're not giving kids enough credit to be able to see the difference between extreme depictions of these subject and real things. If anything, should films like this one raise questions or mixed feelings in a child, we should take it as an opportunity to discuss, learn and grow. Sheltering only works for so long so why not embrace the chance to have meaningful conversations?

[yesthisisJAM]

AlmostMaybe ( http://almostmaybe.wordpress.com )|Twitter ( http://twitter.com/yesthisisjam )

I am a child of adoption and was, by the grace of God, placed in a very warm loving home. In the past decade, I was able to reconnect with my two half siblings and oddly be rejected by my birthmother - but that's a whole another issue and story which I will be blogging about soon at my blog .

What bothers me about this article is that once again, adoption is being treated like everybody 's "dirty little secret". It is this mentality that drove my parents to always hide and not want to talk about my adoption with me because they wanted to "protect me". Which is absurd because we are not even the same race. Adoption can be a very loving act and just as Despicable Me shows families come in all shapes and sizes not just the conventional 1950s Cleaver family.

BTW My family and I saw this movie. It is a great movie. The scene referenced about the dog dish is not a sign of abuse by Gru or any other political statement about foster care, orphans nor adoptions. It is a sign he knows NOTHING about children or how to raise them... well until the end of the story anyway :)

...your post loses a lot of weight with me when you say you have not even seen the film. I'd appreciate your opinion more if you had actual insight about the questionable scenes instead of cherry picking some reviews that back your pre-formed opinion.

As an adopted individual myself, I'm glad my parents didn't tip-toe around the subject and over think whether or not every little thing would "trigger" this or that or hurt my feelings -- I think because of that I have always had a really healthy attitude about my adoption, devoid of any "issues."

We've had a lot of trouble with feature-length films for this reason: most of the children's films contains either a dead parent or a negligent parent. It isn't that difficult to explain that animals die and let them watch Finding Nemo (though that movie makes ME upset); it's much harder to let them see Disney tackle people.

I think the biggest message I took from this post is that you know your kids: what they can handle and what they can't. And all parents should look at their kids like that before they take them to the theater.

Melissa writes Stirrup Queens ( http://stirrup-queens.com ) and Lost and Found ( http://lostandfoundandconnectionsabound.blogspot.c... ). Her book is Navigating the Land of If ( http://thelandofif.blogspot.com/ ).

I don't mind harsh villains at all, and the Grinch, which is a favorite, has the same goal--redeem the villain with love personified in a sweet girl. Adoption themes are overdone, but can be done well. But the themes of Despicable Me sound gross to me. Really, jokes about abusive and dehumanizing paper as bathrooms? Trafficing the girls (and they are all girls) back and forth and calling it adoption? This doesn't sound funny at all to me, and certainly not worth the triggers to sweet little ones. I'm glad you researched before going!

Deb Rox

3 Smart Girlz ( http://www.3smartgirlz.com/ ) consulting

Blog ( http://www.debontherocks.com/ ) like a freaking butterfly, sting like a Tweet. ( http://www.twitter.com/debontherocks )

This is really the best comparison I've read on the subject. So very true.

And, yes, I shudder at the thought of Disney (HA!) tackling that subject.

Jenna Hatfield (@FireMom ( http://twitter.com/FireMom )), from Stop, Drop and Blog ( http://stopdropandblog.com ) and The Chronicles of Munchkin Land ( http://thechroniclesofmunchkinland.com ), is a freelance writer and newspaper photographer.

Evil step-mothers were all the rage when I was young and while I know some of that was due to the material being developed for film, I think it was also because the world was just wrapping its head around divorce. It was a scary theme for kids (and parents) and the movie industry capitalized on that.

Now, we've got the step-mother thing more worked out (though of course not completely) and films have moved on to adoption and infertility and childlessness in its various forms.

Unfortunately, animated films still fall back on the old formulas. There are evil people and they can only turn good if someone loves them, preferably a child - or maybe a talking animal. The childless couple longs for children, which certainly is true but isn't the only story. And everyone is straight.

Next trend - queers in animated film. Imagine what that would look like if the filmmakers follow traditional formulas.

~Denise
BlogHer Community Manager
Life. Flow. Fluctuate.