Is Everyone's Mother-Daughter Relationship Complicated, Or Just Mine?

MamanAndGourmand my heart goes out to you dear I wish I could reach out and give you the hug you so desperately need. I guess you could say that you and I are both sisters in that we have both been injured by a form of maternal betrayal no one should ever have to endure. I did not regard what you had to say as a sob story because as you are about to find out I can in part very much relation to your pain.

I was molested when I was as young as 4 and 5 years old by a man my mother was married to after her relationship with my natural father ended. While my memories of what happened to me I am certain are only a portion of what took place since I was left with this man daily while my mother went to work.

I will be 50 years old in five months and the things I remember today are exactly the same as what I remembered then. Because this man would threaten to kill me and my mother if I told of the thing he did. At that young of an age you dont even know what it is you would be telling......because while you don't like what is being done to put it into words to tell someone, especially when I was a little girl, I could never have known how to tell.

As I got older and my mother ended her relationship with this awful person, I continued in my silence partially out of fear but I felt I was protecting my mother from something that would hurt her.
Imagine my dismay many many years later when I was 33 years and I discovered from my step father she had married when i was nearly 9 years (who by the way was a wonderful Dad and I praise God that he was a part of my life) that she had always known. When they got married she told him about my being molested yet she told him that my natural father was to blame, not the man she married later.

At the time I discovered this my parents were starting their divorce after 22 years of marriage. It broke my heart to find out that she was content to shift the blame to my father leaving her in her mind without guilt. I had always known her to be very narcistic but this was over the top.

During the divorce she made it apparent that she expected my complete loyality to her while she basically raped him of everything including his dignity so that she could marry a man who is just like the one who hurt me as a child. He molested his own daughter as a young girl and while he has 5 sons in addition to his daughter not one of them will have anything to do with him.

It was then I had to make a consious choice to save myself from her emotional torture and went nearly 6 years without speaking to her yet I maintained my relationship with the man she divorced raised me and had always regarded me as his daughter not his step daughter. During those years I stuggled with how I felt and looked for answers everywhere I could. I read books, I talked to other women my age, I even attempted to turn to other family members for some guideance yet because I was an only child this too was a burden I was left to deal with alone.

Only when my 11 year made a comment to me one day was I able to stop blaming myself for not being lovable in the eyes of my mother. One day he said to me when talking about the mother of a little girl I babysat, "Mom I feel sorry for Susie" and I asked why he replied "because she has to be with her mommy!" My response was how awful that sounded and I asked him to explain why he would say that. He very calmly told me in these exact words. "Her mommy is just like Grandma!" Again i asked him to eloborate. He said, "You know!".......and continued.........."Mommy when you hug me I always feel it inside and out.....But when Grandma hugs it is only because someone is looking"

To that all I can say is out of the mouths of babes. From that moment on things instantly got easier for me to understand. It was not me that was unlovable .........it was her that was not able to love. While still painful as it may be as time went on I was able to accept what was as just that ........WAS and no longer let it command my WHAT WILL BE.

Not once in my life had mother even showed concern for my well being not even as a child and to this very day we have never talked about what happened to me.

Three years ago my mother and I reunited and agreed to work on an improved relationship in our future. A year later when her mother ....my grandmother passed away and she no longer needed my help to care for her she begain to revert back to her old behaviors towards me.
So here I sit once again .........broken hearted because to her I just don't matter and I must work again on not letting this CONTROL MY FUTURE.

I apologize for any misspelled words or poor grammer it was more important I think to share rather than edit. Thank you to all who of you who take the time to particiapte in this forum your efforts may very well help to open a closed mind in time.

Bless you all.

www.mamanandgourmand.blogspot.com ( http://www.mamanandgourmand.blogspot.com/ )

I will share something with you about me.  My mother had a child before my mom and dad married which I neve knew till I was much older.  This brother had raped me repeatedly over the years.  My mind couldn't handle it so it would blank out and not remember until I was much older.  When I told my mom and dad they didn't believe me.  My brother since that time had murdered his step daughter, she was only 2 1/2 years old.  The murder took place on my birthday.  (and to add to the weirdness his wife's name was the same as mine).  So they asked my brother if it happened...and he said no.  They believe him over me.  I have forgiven them but then they go to my other brothers and say that I am crazy.  Yeah, I go to a counselor because I have PTSD and anxiety.  Why can they come to terms with a baby being murdered but not the rape of her own daughter.  She told my husband that I have not been raped because she had and I didn't act like a rape victim.  (This baffles me because my mom and dad had both been in the police force)  I had shown all the signs.  There are many other issues that complicate the matter but I don't want to take up too much of everyone's time about my sob story.  I have two daughters now...I wonderful husband.  I too am Catholic like your mother.  Having been a dissapointment to my mother myself I want to tell you something: you have to find your own happiness.  It sounds like you have.  Even though you may have logically forgiven your mother the pain is there.  Moving on and being your own person is the only thing you can do.  I am so glad you have a wonderful partner!  AND God loves you wether you are gay or strait.  I have already made that decision that I will embrace my daughters no matter their beliefs or lifestyle..they have to find happiness first. There are worse things then loving someone. I myself had a baby out of wedlock and was judge very hard by my own family and faith.  I don't put too much stock in a "Church"....I am more into the faith. The Church is ran by man not by God. 

"Mirror, mirror on the wall - I am my mother after all" When chastising my daughter I begin to sound like my mother - help! However natural it is to want the best for your daughter and to achieve etc. I do not want the same pressures imposed on me by my mother.  I still feel the need to seek her approval, even at 48yrs old, married with three kids!  She also has a wonderful knack at making me feel guilty - or maybe its just the Catholic in me!

Mothers are a conundrum although perhaps we shouldn't be too harsh - after all, we are mothers too! I have been intrigued by the m/d for a long time and in order to help me understand, I have embarked on research for a book on the m/d relationship.  Over 500 responses have been submitted from around the world - it has been fascinating reading and helpful including ladies in the same situation as you, Zoe.

(Dear Editor, am I allowed to invite member bloggers to have a look at my website www.mummydear.com ( http://www.mummydear.com/ ) still after more research!)

I have a completely different set of problems with my mother, but the feelings are so similar.  You've written a beautiful heart felt post here Zoe and I wanted to thank you for sharing it. It does sound like she's trying and you're right, it's hard to take into account that they have their own journey in this complex relationship - after all they're the mother, so it's hard I guess, even as adult children to reconcile that.  

Christine
It's My World.  Welcome To It.
Blog: http://www.colormepink.com
Jewelry Blog: http://www.starbrightjewels.com/blog

What's that saying, absence make the heart grow fonder.  Maybe it's not that your relationship is complicated, but just you don't take your mom for granted since she's not just around the corner. 

The 'related topics' did't have "amphibians & reptiles" on the list when I refreshed the page, but it's funny that it was there for you.  What the?, is right.

Wow, what incredible comments.  I've got to tell you, this was a really difficutl post to write, but I knew I couldn't be the only one with such complicated feelings about my mom. 

Mir-  you are so right, there is no shortage of ways a daughter can feel she's failed her mom. If my sexuality wasn't such a huge center stage issue, I know it would be something else.  If you figure out how to keep this from happening with your daughter, please share that wisdom with the rest of us.

Kalyn-  I think we have made some major break troughs, both of us.  I finally realized that at this point, I'm the one holding me back.  I think things are going to be better from here on out.  Oh, should have thrown in that my made and delivered home made chicken soup for Betty Please when she had the flu last year.  Yeah, my mom is pretty ok sometimes.

Melissa-  I hope things get better for you and your mom, and that you don't have to go through this tug of war with your daughter.  BTW, I'm also 37.  This just must be the point in our lives when we are supposed to reconnenct with our moms.

Vered-  I'm thinking that probably the hardest part about being a mother, msut be letting your daughter choose her own path in life and make her own mistakes. It must be hard to not want to take control.

Kate-  I can't tell you how many times I've uttered the phrase, "if she we're my mother, she's not someone I'd know or have in my life."  We are just so different. And  I too have known women whose bond with them was what I wished my bond to my mother was like.  But I've come to realize that I can't put it all on my mom any more.  I've got to meet her half way.

Katie-  Throwing grandma into the mix can add complications.Your story just goes to show that we never stop being our mother's daughters no matter how old we get.  I sometimes wonder how much of our feeling our mother doesn't accept us, is really us projected what we think they want us to be and fearing she will reject us if we can't live up to what we've built up.  Does that make sense?     Good luck with your daughter. 

tango4two-  I think sexuality is such a complicated issue, especially when we are younger and trying to figure everything out, that it sort of trumps all other issues.  I'm sort of shocked by your mom's honesty.  Regardless how she meat it, it would be painful to hear and get past.  But it just goes to show our mothers are people too.

Lady Burg-  I think your right about us all having some sort of complication.  I think it gets complicated because we want to be treated like adults, our own person, but we also expect them to keep being our mom.  And we expect them to know when we want them to treat us as their daughter and when to not.

LucindaA-  mental illness is particularly difficult, and frustrating.  My heart goes out to you.  I hope your second chance at a mother-daughter reltionship is full of joy and happiness.

Wilma- life phases is an interesting way to study the M/D relationships.  I think the problbem in most relationships, not just M/D or other family, but also with friends, is that we don't allow each other to grow and change.  And when one party does change, we don't change how we relate to them and continue to treat them as the person we see them as and not necessarily as who they really are.  I think M/D  relationships are more complicated by this because I think we also hold onto to a bit of nastalgia and hold onto the notions of who want each other to be. 

I remember the first time I realised my Mum was shy, and it blew my mind.  Ever since then, I've been gathering a better idea of her as a person, and I don't think I'll ever be finished.

I do get along better with my mum with some distance between us, so it must be complicated, but it is a relationship i really, truly, value.

On a completely random aside, check out the list of "related topics" next to this post.  I'm not sure if its the same for you, but the first topic on my list is "amphibians & reptiles"

what the?

While going through life and seeing things from both a mother and daughter perspective makes this mother daughter phenomenon real interesting.

With any other person in your life you go through phases. When you are a teenager you relate to teenagers, when single you relate to singles, when with young children you relate to women with young children and when circumstances change you change friends.

However as mother you are doomed to stay with your daughter through all her phases and visa versa AND that is difficult.
As mother and daughter you kind of locked into a relationship that is locked into a time warp.

Mother / daughter relationship is not a choice but a given, have you got any friends who are a given and not a choice?
And if you loose connectedness with friends do you not complete with them and find others.
If different personalities, how come we deny ourselves not to like your mother or your daughter?

But mum and daughter keep hanging around, even when major changes in lifestyle and views of life occur in the daughter's world that is not the mother's one.

For me I can see that this asks for redirection between M/D relationship all the time, with all the agony and frustration and hurt that goes with it.
Why not even sometimes accept you actually don't get on that well and find a kind of relating that would work rather than pining about what is not to be.  

Once we chip away at the M/D fixed relationship and we can emerge as two different people in their own right, then I think we can build a better relationship that comes from understanding and real connectedness and choice.

Otherwise it stays a weird phenomenon and we keep the relationship fixed in a specific M/D stereotype, that somehow got developed without our conscious consent but are based on what went on before in mother's and in daughter's life.   

I personally think it is no wonder that M/D relationship is full of pitfalls, life moves so do relationships but not M/D's and we often feel there is no choice how to relate.

I do admire Zoe's letting go and observing her mother's little moves and being so courageous to tell her how it is for her and understanding that her changes might not be her mother's.
it is about holding the space it can be different one day, and with that intent it will be and all thanks to her courage.

Wilma Ham

www.wilmasblog.com ( http://www.wilmasblog.com/ )

Like everyone has said, we all have *stuff* with our mothers. Mine has a personality disorder that cannot be overcome by me no matter how much I may wish. I had to come to terms with it years ago and know we will never be close. A big part of that was finally seeing her as a person and not just my mom, just as you described.

A bigger part of my understanding also came with becoming a mother to a daughter. I see in her the complexities of our relationship, the struggles we will have in the future, the self-doubt she will have at times. And I know in my heart nothing she can do will ever make me stop loving her for exactly who she is, despite how aggravating, frustrating, conflicting that may be.

I love the last quote you included. I can't change my relationship with my mother because, as I said, there are obstacles that can only be over come by her. But that last quote gives me hope that I can form the relationship with my daughter that I see other women have with their mothers. I hope you continue to grow your relationship with your mother as well. Thank you so much for sharing.

I think every woman has some sort of complications with their relationships with their mothers. Sometimes I think my mother and I have a love/hate relationship. It's sort of like I can't live with her but I can't live without her. We both love one another as mother and daughter; yet, we hate certain characteristics about one another. I also use to always search for my mother's approval but I had to realize that I can't live my life like that. I have to do what makes me happy even if it does piss my mother off a bit. I know that part of the complications involved in our relationship are due to us growing up in different eras. My mother is "old school." She follows, I suppose, I different code of female ethics. I have no problem with her ethics as long she understands that I've adopted my own along with some of hers.  

Like many of your commentors, I definitely know where you are coming from as well. Like you, my sexuality plays a big role in my unusual, and not particularly close relationship with my mom, but she has made it clear from the time I was small that she has never felt close to me and that I am not what she pictured when she daydreamed about having a daughter.  She doesn't mean it unkindly, I think she is just baffled, because I'm not what she'd thought I'd be and our relationship isn't what she had always imagined it would be.  She too would tell you that our relationship is good, but we wish we were closer. ;)  Your post was very interesting! Thanks for the food for thought!

I can't tell you how much I identify with this post. My mother spent her life trying to please her mother. They were very strict with her and she wasn't allowed to do a lot of things, but my mom was a good girl, she never spoke back, rebelled or did anything. My mom thought that when she had a daughter she was going to let her have every opportunity available to her (within reason) and that her daughter would be grateful and appreciative.

Then she had me.

I was nothing like the daughter she had imagined. I was more like her Mother, minus the strict moral code, and I was closer to her mother than she was. It was always an issue, especially after my Mema died and she had left me certain things that my mom wanted. But we had a different relationship, I think granddaughters and granddaughters do, it's just how it is. But to my mom, she didn't have the mother who appreciated her or the daughter.

I was a cheerleader, class vice president, a member of the show choir, in all honors and AP classes, in NHS, had a 3.8 GPA, and a member of every club there was. If I didn't have plans on a Friday or Saturday my mom would be all in a tizzy. She couldn't understand that I just wanted to stay home for once because she was never allowed to go out and do things like that. Here I was, with full permission and endorsement, and I was acting like it was nothing but a burden. My mom is very religious, so going out meant I had to be the designated driver or be at a party where everyone was drinking or dating someone who wanted to have sex with me. Since I didn't do any of that, then, it was more of a burden to go out or date the right people. When I went to William and Mary was when I really became "myself," and that's when I just stopped trying to be that daughter.

I've pretty much done everything my mom didn't want me to do, but not out of rebellion, it's just who I am. She wanted to rock me to sleep every night, but when I was one and a half, I pushed her away and told her no more- I told her no more for the next week that she tried until she stopped.

It's not that I don't love my mom, because I do, very much. And I've spent most of my life trying to please her. I've wished most of my life that she could just accept me as I am, but I've always known that she wished she had a daughter who was more like her.

When I had my daughter I promised her that I didn't care what she did or who she was (except a serial killer), all I wanted was for her to be happy and healthy. She's only one, so the jury's still out on our relationship, but all I can hope is that we have a relationship of acceptance. I know she'll love me and I LOVE her, but if you can't accept each other, than it gets in the way of everything else.

Personal Blog- My Story Is Not Over ( http://katieandspencer.com )

I can't count the number of times I've said that if I didn't look like a carbon copy of my mother I'd swear I was adopted. I was raised by my parents and brother and sister and someday I'll figure out how I came out with a completely different worldview than the rest of them. 

I had cancer when I was 38 and that was when I really began to come to terms with the fact that my parentsare people and that they do not really meet my needs or what I'd hope for in parents. I'm now 41 and am still working on accepting that fact. 

I love my parents but if we were not related we would not know each other. The amazing thing is that I have an older friend who meets my emotional needs in the way I wish my mother could but rather than regret what I don't have I try to embrace what I do. 

Kate

Kate

I blog at http://www.aftercancernowwhat.blogspot.com 

As the mother of two young daughters, I can tell you that I struggle daily to remind myself to never be critical of my children and to accept them as they are.

I love them and care about them so much that sometimes I want to mold them into something different because part of me believes that certain characteristics would be better for them in life than others.

I need to remind myself daily to love them and accept them just the way they are. I also make it a point to tell them every single day (usually at bedtime) that I love them just the way they are.

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A Mommy Blogger ( http://momgrind.com/ ) and a Blogger For Hire ( http://momgrind.com/hire-me/ )

I've had a pretty bad relationship with my mom since high school (and I'm 37 now, yikes). She even dis-owned the entire family for a few years, and just now we're trying to communicate... It's slow going, but we're making a little progress.

I hope and pray that my daughter and I don't have that problem, cause it, frankly, sucks.

Melissa

www.babyheaton.blogspot.com ( http://www.babyheaton.blogspot.com )

Really a great post about a complicated topic. I got tears in my eyes when you talked about your mother finally introducing your partner or having a photo of her. To me it sounds like you've had some real breakthroughs in your relationship, and the kind of honest communication you're describing can only be good.

Kalyn Denny
Kalyn's Kitchen ( http://kalynskitchen.blogspot.com )

I, too, have an extremely complicated relationship with my mother, and often feel like I have disappointed her (even though I think her standards are impossibly high). In our case it's not an issue of sexuality, but trust me that there's no shortage of ways in which a daughter can feel that she failed to meet her mother's expectations.

I look at my fractured relationship with my mother, and then I look at my (so far, so good) relationship with my daughter, and I wonder if there's any way to avoid making similar mistakes. Now that would be information I'd love to have.

Thanks for sharing this, Zoe. It sounds like you and your mom do have a really deep love for one another, despite the bumps in the road.

--
Mir Kamin
(BlogHer contributing editor)

Personal: Woulda Coulda Shoulda ( http://wouldashoulda.com/ )

Having it all with less: Want Not ( http://wantnot.net/ )