"Feed Me" leaves me fed up and frustrated with food, diets, and body image

I agree with you! I don't see surgery as any different than getting contact lenses or dying your hair. And I am in complete support of those who want to do the same.

I generally try not to judge, though I'm sure I have, because you never know when you could be in the same shoes!

Why do I feel the need to get the surgery? Why do I feel the extra skin appears broken? 

Well... I guess that's what we do, as women. We compare ourselves with some glorified version of what we think we should look like. 

Point taken.

When I was 13 I got contact lenses and was thrilled about it. I was convinced I was ugly in glasses. These days I wear glasses almost all the time, but I still have contacts. I no longer think I look ugly in glasses, but I'll still wear contacts. And if I'm going to an event (ballet, wedding, whatever) I'll often wear my contacts. Part of it is an appearance thing, I think I look better just as *me* without eye-wear. And part of the reason that I don't wear contacts all the time anymore is because I find they dry out too much when I'm on the computer all day. So it's fun to be able to wear them. But it's no longer because I think I look ugly with glasses.

Of course that whole wearing contacts things to the ballet totally screwed me over the time I got something in my eye and ended up crying my way through the first half of Giselle and only being able to see it out of one eye. I wore glasses the next time I went. ;-)

Sassymonkey ( http://sassymonkey.ca/ ) and Sassymonkey Reads ( http://sassymonkeyreads.ca/ ).

And is just me nudging the conversation in a way that might take is in other directions? Contact lenses are ok, not extreme measures to look good - plastic surgery not ok, extreme measures. But 100 years from now, will plastic surgery be the norm?

~Denise
BlogHer Community Manager

Flamingo House Happenings ( http://www.flamingohouse.net/ )

It was just a shocking reminder that we can't just look at someone and know all there is to know.

~Denise
BlogHer Community Manager

Flamingo House Happenings ( http://www.flamingohouse.net/ )

Yes totally that mother.  It was an aspect of her that most people did not know about.  Which really makes it so sad .  But please dont doubt her wonderfulness :D  That photo showed what she was like.  My mom was one of a kind.

The comment here that really touched me was about speaking only with good purpose about people.
I  sometimes speak too quickly and cause unintended harm that way.
Being careful with words, even when in private in front of children or in front of anybody for that matter will make a big difference. Words are so powerful and yet we are not careful with them.
Even how I speak about myself I now have to watch.
I noticed though that speaking with good purpose takes some doing, if only I was as careful with my words as with my money, 

And hmm, I am not dying my hair but I have contact lenses.  Now I have to think what that means?

Wilma Ham

www.wilmasblog.com ( http://www.wilmasblog.com/ )

having 5 kids who study it seriously, one pre-professional. Ballet is a matter of physics. If you're taller than average it takes more force to get you off the ground, and your torque and center of gravity are different.  Therefore, companies tend to match their dancers, so they are more uniform in appearance. Like two horses pulling a cart.

The other disfiguring aspects of the business also have some basis. For example, dancing en pointe is most stable when the foot has an exaggerated curve. Dancers spend a lot of time hating their feet because someone else has a "better" one, even though the "better" one is due to many hours of callus building and stretching exercises.

My pre-professional dancer is a guy. He's also 6'5", which is tall for most companies. When he partners with a girl who is 5'3", she gains maybe 5 inches from shoe and releve, so he still must really go into a split so their relative heights are appropriate. Because of that, he'll be partnering mostly taller girls. The choreography may call for a lift, including a one handed press lift. That means, in time to the music, he will get a girl who weighs, at least, 120 pounds and get them gracefully in the air overhead.  Here's a picture of one such lift 

http://blog.mlive.com/grpress/2008/04/medium_chamb...

So, if a dancer is longer than average, or heavier than average, it presents a problem for the choreography. Like gymnasts, they tend to be small and springy, as girls, or square and springy, as boys. Basketball players and swimmers run long, divers are petite.

In our house, we talk all the time about eating disorders in this business. They're very common, and in many places, encouraged. I tell my eldest that he can't partner 6 hours a day (not unusual, for a dancer) without decent nutrition, but the pressure is always there. Perfectionism fits very well with the artform, sadly.

http://www.blogher.com/blog/she-who

I'll buy that again - always comparing ourselves to our neighbors. Gotta have a bigger house, newer car, etc...

And I also agree that men compete with each other and compare themselves to other men and some of their behaviors are harmful to other men or to themselves. But, it's not an everyday, visible thing.

When was the last time you heard a man say "I cheated on my diet." Or how about "I'm skipping breakfast and lunch so I can have a piece of cake for my birthday party tonight." Or "my thighs look fat" or "I'm having a bad hair day."

With women the talk is constant. I bet you can't go an entire day without hearing this kind of talk over and over from women - but you'll never hear it from men.

~Denise
BlogHer Community Manager

Flamingo House Happenings ( http://www.flamingohouse.net/ )

And there lies the problem. Kids and adults both see people as experts and do value opinions - even when they shouldn't.

In order to really change the world, we have to all kick the negative talk because someone out there is looking up to us... it might be a little girl, it might be a grown woman.

Going long is good, I don't mind at all. :-)

~Denise
BlogHer Community Manager

Flamingo House Happenings ( http://www.flamingohouse.net/ )

I'll remember that. :)

Which makes me think, I can be
judgmental too when I just assume women order food a certain way
because they're trying to be skinny.

This is so, so complicated. 

----

Need to hire a blogger ( http://momgrind.com/ )? I’m a mommy blogger and a blogger for hire ( http://momgrind.com/hire-me/ ).

Ok, I think I got it now. All those words I used ... bah. But I guess it took those supporting words to make sense of it all:

We can't believe or value what other say about us. We have to consider carefully the source of the information. Why do we believe what other people say? Why do we hold so much value to what other people think about us?

 When you do see the media stuff - don't you just say, it's all faked? Value and meaning derived from it. Zero

If my daughter hears me say:  "Look at person, I can't believe she's wearing that -- it's so ugly." My daughter will internalize that and try to make sure I never think that of her.

Careful what well meaning aunts and grandparents say. My husband and I take a strong stand against these people. No negativity. Not from family. Honestly, there's plenty of it out there -- home is a safe haven.

Once daughter came home and said another girl said this/that. I said, is she an expert on this topic? She's done research? Is she that smart and knowledgeable and you value her "opinion" that much? Umm.. no. Heheh What is your opinion on that subject? (This works better when they're young before hormones hit, of course)

So again, we have to be careful what we believe is valuable opinion or fact. It is a constant awareness/battle, I suppose. To catch your own thinking and what you say to yourself in your head.

Sorry, went longer than I wanted again. Haha

Thanks for the welcome. I've always been just a lurker. Heh

Oh yes, everyone does it, the men too. They see who's got the better body build, better tech smarts, the better 'looking' woman on their arm, more money, latest tech gadgets, ... we all do this to a certain extent, don't we?

Who has the better house, the greener lawn, the nicer car. It's the same old thing through the whole of human-ness.

We recognize that those who compare like this are rather shallow. But we can hardly help ourselves. You can see it often quite clearly in young children. They naturally say "I was first! I am faster." Somehow, their very own essence as a being is insulted if they are not first or fastest. We think they grow up and out of it.

But as adults, do we think we do?

Most of us have heard other people say (not to us) but talking in reference to someone else, "Oh my, just look at her -- how could she be ______ " fill in the blank. 

How could she be -- dressed in that? look like that? own that? do that? Which implies that the speaker of such a phrase wouldn't have done that -- so thus, is a better person because of it. But why even say it? To make sure others around them 'know' she is better than that other person.

It really is like Survivor. We're all trying to prove why we're worthy/valuable to be kept.

I'm no expert on the men ;) but I think they don't 'say' as much. It is known and accepted just by the position, title, and wealth. They don't go around as much as women saying, "Oh, just like at him, I can't believe he couldn't color coordinate his outfit.) Women say stuff like this a lot -- aloud -- to let other women know, they know. As if you didn't say it first, people would think you didn't know. etc etc

That's just my experience thus far on planet earth. Your mileage may vary. :D

"News" can't stop talking about how professional women---such as politicians---look. I just KNOW some newsroom's political desk somewhere has a hotness scale for female senators. I know I worked in an office that did---for the female employees.

You can't checkout at the pharmacy or grocery store without some magazine stabbing you in the eyes with red circles around "fat" and "pouchy tummies" and "cellulite" on celebrities as if it's some TriDelt initiation ceremony every week.

This makes us think, and I doubt we're half wrong, that our size and looks are always being evaluated and weighed (no pun iontended) and or value being derived at least to some degree from it.

For those of us at that 40 and up spot, we're facing all those thing happening despite our best efforts---the sagging and the pooching and so forth---at least to some degree. That's aging, but on the one hand we have "look at Jennifer Aniston, this is how 40 should look! She's perfect, a physical age of 24!" and on the other "look at Tyra Banks, she's so FAT!"

But the very, very , very worst of all? Is your skinny and fit and perfect 7 year old daughter coming home demanding to go on a diet and join and exercise gym because her Anti-Obesity Program at school told her kids need to work hard to not get fat.

'Scuse me while I throw up in my mouth a little.

Edited to add what i forgot/got distracted from: So while we can try and try to combat those outside voices with healthy self-esteem, I've yet to meet ANYONE so completely at peace that it doesn't crop up in some way somehow sometime.

Julie
Using My Words ( http://theartfulflower.blogspot.com/ )

I am notorious for blaming the patriarchy but I refuse to do it when talking about this topic. It's bigger than the patriarchy.

You suggest it's a part of the human condition and I can accept that up to a point. But, how do men manifest this tendency? Do they do it in ways that are this harmful?

~Denise
BlogHer Community Manager

Flamingo House Happenings ( http://www.flamingohouse.net/ )

This topic got me registered here so I can comment. :)

Here's my take on the situation. It is a human condition. Somehow deep inside we all know and feel that we lack something / perfection / what you will. Many feel the need to prove their worth compared to some other person. To be smarter, more beautiful, faster, slower, whatever it is, we are always comparing and comparing.

Often, many ppl compare and if in that one particular area (in their own mind) that they are 'better' than the other person, [checkmark], they feel better about themselves. It appears like we're all trying to outdo each other.

I read about this once. I know this is rather zen/spiritual stuff. But it makes sense. People are always comparing. It drives me insane.

I know within myself, that I can't help myself either. But at least I recognize it now. SO... when I see myself doing it, I stop, refrain from speaking aloud about it, refrain from furthering it...

Let's keep the men out of this for now, because honestly, I think us women just do it to ourselves and each other. We compare our clothes, or material things, and our looks. We do that. Of course, the societal influence is insane and effects (affects?) us all. 

Next time you find yourself about to say something that compares, try to stop ..

Next time you hear someone compare, recognize it for being that. The person is comparing something within their value system. Stand and decide for yourself what your value system is and determine if that person's opinion is valid. What filter does that person have over their eyes? Why is what that person thinks/says even important? 

**  I believe that what that person says about you or someone else -- is simply a reflection of their soul/heart. If person A says, "You're ugly" -- it does not mean you are ugly. What it means is that person A believes if she saw herself like that she would believe herself to be ugly and that she doesn't recognize what beauty is, and that person is SHALLOW. ;)  It reveals what is in their heart.

Western media only shows photoshopped/cropped/edited people. Nothing you ever see now is real. People have 3 hour make-over sessions before they appear before any camera. Nothing you see is real!

Go look at National Geographics visiting third world countries -- THERE -- that's where real beauty is. Look at more 'ugly' images and realize they are beautiful. :)

What is beauty anyways? What is ugly? Look past all that.

Phew! Just a few thoughts. Ha!

I know that even with this comment, I'm comparing myself to those who compare. It is endless. 

Everybody was just average and once in awhile without 'editing' or 'fixing' there may be someone who was born naturally beautiful. That's great. But now all we see are supposedly beautiful exteriors with absolutely no depth of information on the quality of the person. yes, an insane world we live in.

 Ok, I'm done, really. :)

And this is one of the most frustrating things for me. Women attacking and undermining other women not because they're evil people but because their own insecurities cause them to lash out.

:-(

~Denise
BlogHer Community Manager

Flamingo House Happenings ( http://www.flamingohouse.net/ )

It's always good to hear from someone else who has read Perfect Girls, Starving Daughters and of course hear the stories of other women's lives.

I lived in the Philippines for six years and I heard a lot of comments about the size of American women (and American girls.) It was difficult to not be the "ugly American" and tell those folks where they could go. I can't imagine having a mom who said such things.

~Denise
BlogHer Community Manager

Flamingo House Happenings ( http://www.flamingohouse.net/ )

As the daughter of a tiny Japanese mother, her petite frame (five foot tall, about 102 pounds) always made me feel huge at 5'4", even though I was of average weight growing up. My American father was a large man, and her lifelong fear was that I'd get fat.

 So in subtle and not-so-subtle ways, she'd praise me for certain talents and then criticize my weight. "You so smart!" she'd say. "But you so fat!" My personal success was always tied to how I looked, at least in her mind. It was a form of pressure I wish she hadn't placed on me.

One of the positive images from "Perfect Girls, Starving Daughters" that stayed with me was the warm, supportive relationship between Courtney Martin and her mother. I read the book after meeting Courtney, and she's so amazingly normal, authentic, and resilient to the body image pressures that make so many of us crazy.

After I reviewed ( http://womensissues.about.com/b/2008/12/09/perfect... ) her book, I realized that even my own teenage daughters obsess in small ways ( http://womensissues.about.com/b/2008/12/09/perfect... ) about weight gain. The older one is 5'5" and of average weight; the younger one is my mother all over again, but she pulls at her 'belly fat' and worries about the size of her thighs. I'd be thinking "What did I do wrong?" if I hadn't read "Perfect Girls" and realized the messages don't come from me. They come from everyone and everything around us.

The problem is, we've all internalized them to some extent. I once tried writing an article about "The Top 10 Things Women Love and Hate About Their Bodies" and guess what? Coming up with a Top 10 Hate list was easy; the internet is crawling with examples. But there's very little love ( http://womensissues.about.com/od/womensbodiesminds... ) out there. I still want to write that article, so I've taken to asking women what they love ( http://womensissues.about.com/u/ua/womensbodiesmin... ) about their bodies on my site.

Let's face it -- if we can't find the content we need to feel good about ourselves, we need to create it, and encourage other women to do the same.

Linda Lowen
About.com Guide to Women's Issues
http://womensissues.about.com

When I was in high school, my best friend put on a lot of weight and always bothered me because I did not.  She always told me that I was sickening for being too thin and she even got her boyfriend to call me one night and explain to me that no guy would ever date me because I was too skinny.  She always bothered me when I would eat junk food and she always tried to beat me down.  Now, I don't think that those actions have effected my self-hatred that I experience now, but it certainly bothered me that someone who was supposed to be a good friend kept trying to beat me down because I was something that she wanted to be.  She was just an angry and envious person....everything that I did bothered her.  After I had my son, she called me and said that she had seen pictures of me and made a crack about my being fat now and that she could finally like me again.  So, yeah, we stopped being friends.  

I guess it just never occured to me to feel sorry for her because she was being so spiteful about it, but I see that now and I DO feel bad.  I never once tried to intimidate her, and she was the one who always had boyfriends and I was always the single one.  

I don't hate anybody for being thin.  I hate myself for my lack of control over my body.  I hate the fact that I can look at a beautiful woman, regardless of size, and see her as beautiful but I can't do the same with myself.  I hate that I disgust myself and I can't get past it.

Somer blogs at Merry Wife of Canon ( http://www.merrywifeofcanon.com ) as well as Smell My Plate ( http://www.smellmyplate.com ).

I've already own the pessimist label so I'll hang onto it.

How do we create and own those separate and welcoming spaces and still work to infiltrate the not so safe and welcoming spaces?

I'm tired. And fed up, did I mention that? I want to support but I also want to rage against the machine. Need more energy and time. :-)

~Denise
BlogHer Community Manager

Flamingo House Happenings ( http://www.flamingohouse.net/ )

They are totally not equal but then we have to start changing hearts, minds and attitudes somewhere, right? If we don't create space where larger women can show that they have the talent and where they feel welcome showing that talent I doubt we can overcome society's hurdles and jump right to traditional ballet companies accepting women who are not extremely tiny as dancers. When they are able to demonstrate their skill in a setting with the same choreographers and partners then it will make it much harder for those teachers to say that women who are by ballet standards fat at 100 pounds that they cannot dance "real" ballet.

It's not perfect or where I wish we were but a start - at least that's my optimistic take.

BlogHer Contributing Editor ( http://www.blogher.com/blog/maria-niles )
PopConsumer ( http://consumerpop.typepad.com/popconsumer )
Beyond Help ( http://mariax.vox.com/ )

I almost tracked down some links just like that one Maria but then I thought I'd wait and see... glad you came in and posted because now I have to ask, is this really the same thing?

When her teacher said she wasn't built to be a ballet dancer, what she meant was she wasn't built to be a REAL ballet dancer. It never crossed her mind to say well you can't make it big but you can make it in the BIG girl's ballet... and if she had, what effect would that have on a girl who loves ballet?

See what I mean or am I muddling it?

I love those programs but it's a separate but not equal thing. I want all great dancers regardless of size to have the same chance at being in whatever the biggest and best ballet companies in the world might be.

~Denise
BlogHer Community Manager

Flamingo House Happenings ( http://www.flamingohouse.net/ )

 The one who came to see her in the ER and I told you that she flirted with him. (which now remembering that makes his winking a bit more annoying). 

~TW ( http://ramblewoman.blogspot.com )
Retro-Food ( http://retro-food.com/ )

( http://ramblewoman.blogspot.com )

Rita's post, Roxanna's post (The Internet Thinks Your Beautiful), this post and three more all related to beauty and body image and diet and everything else are all a wee bit planned.

We didn't plan them months ago, they just sort of evolved out of CE discussions we were having wrapped around all sorts of blog posts and articles we were sharing with each other.

I've had my post planned for two weeks - I realized I couldn't blog it all in one post, I needed my rant... so I asked some other CEs to join me.

(There you go, some insight into how the BlogHer CE team works together to bring you great blog posts!)

I saw your comment. I actually read it three times. I plan on commenting on a bunch of the comments there because they're so good and they struck chord after chord with me.

I say I have no body image issues or self image issues but goodness knows I wasn't born this evolved (no laughing, people!) I've had questions about myself. I've wondered if I should diet after I had my first child because that's what all of the books and articles said new moms do. I realized that no, I shouldn't because it felt wrong and I was not unhappy with who I was or what I looked like.

And of course, when I wasn't eating anything for days on end and lost a ton of weight - someone mentioned it and it was only then that I realized what had happened, so I had a lot of self-exploration to do.

Anyway, life is a growing process and so is how we handle our self image. There are or can be pitfalls - age, illness, divorce, dating, children, stress... anything can do us in, we just have to grow into our new selves.

:-)

~Denise
BlogHer Community Manager

Flamingo House Happenings ( http://www.flamingohouse.net/ )

This is one of the things I was thinking about when I told Somer in the comments way up there that we all feel the effects of this, every single one of us.

I feel self-conscious around people who I know are struggling with health issues or weight issues or self esteem issues because I'm not struggling. I'm not even worrying. I can feel their tension and it does definitely effect me. I may still order the Booby's Burger and eat the whole thing, but I won't enjoy it nearly as much because I feel the other person's frustration and pain.

~Denise
BlogHer Community Manager

Flamingo House Happenings ( http://www.flamingohouse.net/ )

We see the obvious things, it's how we interact and react to people that matters, isn't it?

You can notice Janet Jackson has gained weight since you last saw her but that's not the same thing as Vered's friend who negatively commented on Julia Roberts' thighs.

Is it?

This goes along with the Fat Acceptance Movement. One of the essays in Feed Me was about a woman who is fat. Her friend would constantly try and deny this or tell her to cut it out. But her own acknowledgement and ownership of her size was hers, and positive. It was only negative in her friend's eyes.

That's also similar to people who get annoyed when I call myself a dyke. I am one and I don't mind the word unless you use it against me in some way - and I do indeed know when you're using it positively and using it negatively.

Same - same, right?

~Denise
BlogHer Community Manager

Flamingo House Happenings ( http://www.flamingohouse.net/ )

Because I'm not liking him and want to be prepared to give him the Denise voice should I ever encounter him.

~Denise
BlogHer Community Manager

Flamingo House Happenings ( http://www.flamingohouse.net/ )

Sigh. Body image is everywhere and so is the negative self-talk. 

Even
at the doctor's office, the reinforcing patting of my mother's belly at the pulmonologist as he told her to lose weight...and gave that grin and wink like he thought she would find a man to make her breathless instead, not helpful as I have spent the last six months trying to undo 72 years of programming.

~TW ( http://ramblewoman.blogspot.com )
Retro-Food ( http://retro-food.com/ )

( http://ramblewoman.blogspot.com )

I realize I still have my own programming to un-do.

Yesterday as I watched tv, I thought about tweeting or calling someone to come look at a celebrity on tv who looked heavier than the last time I saw her. It wasn't a "she looks bad thing" just a startled noted thought. Ok, I also thought "I wonder how she feels about being seen looking like that." 

Or is it like "not noticing" that someone is in a wheelchair,
blind, another race, male, female, etc.? to not notice that someone has
gained or lost weight.

~TW ( http://ramblewoman.blogspot.com )

Retro-Food ( http://retro-food.com/ )

( http://ramblewoman.blogspot.com )

The hardest thing for me is turning off, and ignoring the negative energy coming at you constantly from all angles. In High School I refused to think about diets, or work out to prove to my friends it's wasn't important to be perfect. I felt the need to take it to an extreme to try to prove my point. I lasted through my first two years of college without worrying/stressing/hating myself, but began to slip at the end. Girl friends always talking about what diet they were on, sharing horror stories of starvation, I had a roommate who was a bulimic, a sibling receiving pressure from our mother to be thin, the media, dating pressures, it was constant.

The hardest moment was when my bulimic roommate told me that she would actually get upset with me when she watched me eat a hamburger, or snack on chips. She said it took all she had not to physically remove the food from my hands and throw it at the wall. Anger, directed at me simply because I wasn't worrying about a diet.

As the years have gone on I find myself being unable to keep it all out. Things slip in slowly, tainting my positive attitude about my own body. Sometimes it takes all my effort not to give into the temptation to 'hate myself.' When did society get to a place where one has to actively fight against the pressures of hating yourself?

I hope more people take heed of your message Denise... we could all use a little positive outlook.

Ashley of The Accidental Olympian ( http://www.accidentalolympian.typepad.com ) 

Time is the only thing that helped me come to this conclusion--certainly not hollywood.

Rita Arens just had a great post about a 'mom's body'. http://www.blogher.com/secret-truth-behind-mommy-b... I left this comment there...

My body just keeps getting better and better...Or maybe it's my perception of my body that keeps getting better. 

The closer I get to 40, the more I love myself whether I'm a size 20 or a 10. I'm finally comfortable in my skin. Even though it's stretched, wrinkled, hormone pox marked, grows gray hairs in funny places and saaaaags so much that pretty bras don't cut it anymore...it's me. I like it.

My husband thinks I'm more sexy now than I was 15 years ago. If I could go back to the skinny days in my 20's I think I would pass and keep this old bod and all the perspective that comes with it.

I think we all need to help each other and the beautiful girls coming after us to change the message of what is truly beautiful. Together we can change the standard.

In the mean time...Please pass the ice cream. I'll have a double.

www.reclaimsimplicity.com ( http://reclaimsimplicity.com ) 

Discover how rich and hilarious life can be when it's simple. Tales and tips on making money mind, riding the recycle, simple food, homegrown music and more.

My boobs are woman boobs. I'm 40. No wonder I had to order a size 14 dress and it's still too small. My dress is designed for a teenager with no boobs!

Yeah, there was nothing quite like trying on dresses that either couldn't close because they were a "size 8" (really size 4-6) or that were like tents, as size 22. 

I also love that every time I log in to Facebook, there's an ad in my sidebar promoting some bridal weight loss program, all because I have my status as "engaged."

Lynn @ human, being

http://www.humanbeingblog.com

I wasn't fat as a 10-year-old. I was actually pretty thin, but had long, gangly limbs and was very tall for my age. I think by that age I was 5-1 or 5-2. Still, I took it as I was "too fat". I also heard once from a modeling agent that they'd be happy to give me a contract if I lost another 15 pounds--and that was when I weighed 124 and had 16% body fat. I'm 5-9. I thought she was ridiculous, but it still hit my heart that I was too fat.

This post and topic is really important. It makes me want to DO SOMETHING about it. But what? And how? Changing anything seems impossible.

Lynn @ human, being

http://www.humanbeingblog.com

Check out The Big Ballet ( http://www.dancehere.com/big-ballet/ ) company where all the dancers are big girls :)

And Big Moves ( http://www.bigmoves.org/info.html )

Size does not automatically equal health and the relentless message that it does I think stops some people, especially women, from taking joy in movement.

BlogHer Contributing Editor ( http://www.blogher.com/blog/maria-niles )
PopConsumer ( http://consumerpop.typepad.com/popconsumer )
Beyond Help ( http://mariax.vox.com/ )

Good comment! You're bringing another aspect to the discussion that often gets left out when I rant about this. ;-)

We live in a free country and if you or anyone else wants plastic surgery for any reason then I'm in support of you doing it.

But, you're healthy and a triathlete and you've given birth two a couple of children and that extra skin was perfectly normal and definitely not something that was broken or unhealthy. But to you, it was.

Why? What led you to feel that way? Is that any different from an anorexic who sees herself as fat ie broken and needs to fix it?

Is what you saw a symptom of the Perfect Girls, Starving Daughters problem? You had a picture of how you should look and when your body didn't live up to that picture, you had surgery to resolve that.

And is surgery different from women who get contact lenses because they don't like the way they look with glasses? Or who color their hair to hide the grey (which is something else I could rant about, by the way)?

I don't have the answers and I will not ever judge you for making a choice that you believe is right for you. I'm just asking some questions and hoping you'll keep discussing it. I'm betting there are a lot of other people who feel the way you do.

~Denise
BlogHer Community Manager

Flamingo House Happenings ( http://www.flamingohouse.net/ )

What's really scary to me is I can picture exactly what it looks like to try and do that.

~Denise
BlogHer Community Manager

Flamingo House Happenings ( http://www.flamingohouse.net/ )

My post was purely about body image, negative self talk and the negative relationships we have with food. People can indeed lose weight in a healthy way and for healthy reasons. They can do it without winding up with a body image disorder or an eating disorder. And they can do it without speaking badly about themselves or the foods they eat (or don't eat.)

It's totally possible.

~Denise
BlogHer Community Manager

Flamingo House Happenings ( http://www.flamingohouse.net/ )

That just makes me nuts. All of those magazines in the grocery check out line that show cellulite on star bodies and want you to guess which fat star this is. They cover up Cosmo and Playboy with those little cards - they should cover up that crud so we aren't exposed to it, ya know?

FYI if we ever have dinner together and I have a salad, I will order no dressing... not because I'm concerned about my weight or my health but because I don't like dressing. Remember that, k? :-)

~Denise
BlogHer Community Manager

Flamingo House Happenings ( http://www.flamingohouse.net/ )

My Michelle, 19 glorious years old, was sure she was FAT when she was in 2nd grade. She was adamant that she was fat and there was nothing anyone could say or show her or do to prove to her that she was anything but fat.

I took her to the doctor for a sports physical and when he asked if there were any issues we were concerned with I told him that Michelle was concerned by her weight. He looked at me like I was the most horrible mother in the world, sure that I was the one who was telling her this. I obviously was not.

Michelle, being Michelle, jumped on that discussion and rambled on and on about why SHE thought she was fat and that she was sure I should be putting her on a diet but I wouldn't because I didn't believe in diets.

We spent ages in that doctor's office talking to Michelle about kids growth, nutrition, etc... and when we walked out, she never said she was fat again.

Until she hit her late teens and she doesn't say she's fat but she does worry about gaining weight if she goes off of hormonal birth control. The child weighs less than 100 pounds and she stresses over this even as she's saying but I know I'm not fat and I know a few pounds won't make me fat. Yet she stresses.

Where did she learn this? Not from me. Not from anyone in her immediate family.

~Denise
BlogHer Community Manager

Flamingo House Happenings ( http://www.flamingohouse.net/ )

I too have been blogging ( http://tsquest.blogspot.com/2009/07/consentual-acc... ) recently about body image. I feel very confident about my body. I felt confident at 170 lbs and I feel confident now at 120 lbs. My mother had a great image of herself. I think that speaks VOLUMES.

I lost weight because of health issues. I struggled with borderline diabetes and high cholesterol. The only way to solve those was to eat in healthy moderation. I also became much gentler on my body, going from weight lifting and running to yoga. In effect, the weight came off. 

However, since I've had a 50 lbs weight loss and gave birth to two 9 lb babies, I do have stretched out skin on my stomach. I've decided to get a tummy tuck to take care of it simply because it bothers me.

I am amazed at the number of people, men AND women, who project something on my decision because they think I want to be skinnier or something I'm not.  I am also a triathlete and very proud of how I look as a nearly 40 year old woman. I am healthier and more fit than I have ever been in my life. To me, the extra skin is bothersome because it seems broken. I am not striving to look like I did at age 20. 

Why is it so wrong for me to want to look like the healthy and happy woman that I am? 

I understand that body image is a huge problem in this society and yes, I get it. I have two little girls who are happy with who they are... and I hope that it has a lot to do with the fact that I am too.

I thought about keeping a real record of every single instance where I saw this type of negative talk for an entire year. Thankfully, I came to my senses.

Should I ever win the lottery (nobody wins those things!) I will be doing just such a thing. Seriously. I came to that conclusion when I wrote that lottery post earlier in the year.

~Denise
BlogHer Community Manager

Flamingo House Happenings ( http://www.flamingohouse.net/ )

"It's like my body is something that is NOT me, and the part of me that IS me wants to kill it off."

I think that was the most powerful thing I've read on this subject.  WELL.  PUT.

Lena

www.thecheekylotus.com ( http://www.thecheekylotus.com )

That mother?

That just about broke my heart to read this morning. No idea why, exactly, since I spent seven years working at WebMD and saw my fair share of women with chronic illnesses who were losing weight joke about the benefit of their illness.

Perfect Girls, Starving Daughters talks a lot about control and how girls in particular use their diets and their bodies to exert control over situations they have no control over. It all just makes me mad, but errr I said that already didn't I?

~Denise
BlogHer Community Manager

Flamingo House Happenings ( http://www.flamingohouse.net/ )

There's a ballet story in the book Feed Me. It wasn't my favorite story but it was interesting. Interesting because it was a little different than the stories I usually hear.

I have a question, is it possible that your ballet teacher did in fact mean fat? Maybe she didn't but the pessimist in me is inclined to believe she did. And I'm tired of giving people the benefit of the doubt for these kinds of things.

Yes, it would take the entire world to stop the fashion craze but it would also take the entire world to change ballet and ballet teachers... big girls can't be ballerinas my a**. Who made up that rule? Would the world end if a big girl, who was a great dancer, became a ballerina? I think not. The world would probably be just a little bit better place, in my humble don't know anything about ballet opinion.

~Denise
BlogHer Community Manager

Flamingo House Happenings ( http://www.flamingohouse.net/ )

I found this very interesting. As someone who struggled with extreme obesity, and finally lost the weight, I've been on both sides of this issue. Sure, when I was fat people told me, "You have such a pretty face," and then when I lost the weight, "I knew you were beautiful." I was never sure how to respond to these comments - was I pretty as a fat woman, or not?

For me, losing the weight wasn't about the media's perception of what is perfect, but rather about my own desire to avoid the very real health dangers of obesity. I also had the desire to be active with my children, move easier and yes, look better.

As I blog about weight loss and weight maintenance, I try to encourage the people who read my story to get healthy and fit for themselves, not for other people. There's a difference between having the desire to lose weight because you want to, and the desire to lose weight because of what the media dictates.

Diane

lost 150 pounds and talks about it at:

www.fittothefinish.com/blog ( http://www.fittothefinish.com/blog )

I saw "The Proposal" with a friend. When Bullock has a semi-nude scene, you can see she's beautiful, but not in the way the media dictates (skinny everything, large breasts). I was shocked when my friend whispered "wow, look at her thighs, they're huge!"

Another recent story from my own life: in a restaurant with friends, when they ordered a salad (dressing on the side, please) and I ordered whatever I wanted, which happened to be lamb chops, I got the "you're not going to finish THAT, are you?" comment. 

I recently wrote about women and body image ( http://momgrind.com/2009/01/28/women-body-image/ ). Writing these posts always depresses me, but I think it's important to keep discussing it. I think you just inspired me to write specifically about women and their relationship with food.  

----

Need to hire a blogger ( http://momgrind.com/ )? I’m a mommy blogger and a blogger for hire ( http://momgrind.com/hire-me/ ).

I spent time with them this weekend and they are each interesting, smart, kind and fairly well adjusted, and they get along excellently despite the age difference.

But.

The 13-year-old had a real panic attack triggered by her other aunt buying her shorts that were size 0 instead of size 00. For the rest of the weekend she asked me whether she looked bigger than size 00.

The 8-year-old confided to me that her worst fear was getting fat. She'd constantly compare her body -- favorably, because she's a skinny kid -- to that of her older cousin.

Seeing these children so obsessed shocked and infuriated me. And it's depressing that I'm probably only shocked cause I'm not around girls that age too often.

The average age of a first time bride has risen to 25 to 30 and the dresses are all in JUNIOR sizes.  How is a mature woman supposed to feel when she tries on dresses that are meant for an undeveloped teen?  The dresses are purposely sized to maximize the amount of alterations needed.  It is a horrid industry in that regards - and in serious need of change.

MLO / Melissa

From Denise's original post about Perfect Girls, Starving Daughters is this:

After a few of those types of posts, I thought it might be interesting to see just how often I saw women talking in negative terms about their bodies, their clothing, and food so I kept track last week. 72 blog posts by women fit into this category and one by a man.

72 blog posts in one week just within the blogs that Denise read. Plus how many commercials, television shows, magazine articles, news stories, diet ads get added into that?

We are constantly bombarded with negative messages about our bodies. The more I think about it the less I'm surprised that so many women feel negative about their bodies. What surprises me is that anyone doesn't.

Sassymonkey ( http://sassymonkey.ca/ ) and Sassymonkey Reads ( http://sassymonkeyreads.ca/ ).

Because I know exactly how you felt. Add into the the glares and the comments when you dared to order a cheeseburger and fries, or worse, salad. It was like there was this whole world of conversation about body image that I wasn't "allowed" to take part in because I was thin.

Sassymonkey ( http://sassymonkey.ca/ ) and Sassymonkey Reads ( http://sassymonkeyreads.ca/ ).