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Kalyn Denny is a former third grade teacher from Salt Lake City, Utah, who discovered blogging when she wanted a place to share her recipes online....
 
 
 
 

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Food Bloggers are Abuzz About The Right to Post a Potato Salad Recipe

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A few days ago, food blogger Melissa from Alosha's Kitchen wrote a post about her Fourth of July dinner, including her first potato salad, one she made using a recipe she had adapted from Cook's Country, a well-known food magazine. She credited Cook's Country as the source of the original potato salad recipe, mentioned how she had modified the salad, and published the post. The story Melissa tells about what happened next is leaving food bloggers everywhere shaking their heads in disbelief.

In a post called Illegal or Not? Melissa tells how the morning after she wrote that post, she received an e-mail from Deborah Broide Publicity, the company that handles PR for Cook's Country, America's Test Kitchen, and Cooks Illustrated, a huge conglomerate of cooking magazines, cookbooks, and food television shows. In the e-mail, Melissa was asked to remove the recipe from her blog because "Permission was not given to use this recipe," and told "Also we do not allow our recipes to be modified (in print.)"

Melissa says she was on the way out the door when she got the first e-mail, so she originally dashed off a reply saying she would take the recipe down. However, when she got to work and had more time to think about it, she was certain she had done nothing wrong. She then went back and forth with the PR person in an e-mail exchange that became progressively more frustrating to her.

Even though she took the potato salad recipe out of the original post, Melissa was still upset by the incident, and a few days later she wrote another post, reprodocucing the e-mail exchange she had with the representative from Cooks Country, giving her thoughts about the request, and sharing the information she found on the web about recipe rights. And she posted her version of the potato salad recipe!

To date, more than 120 food bloggers have left comments of support for Melissa's position that even a small amount of internet research will show that recipes are not subject to copyright except when they are accompanied by "substantial literary expression" and even then, the list of ingredients cannot be copyrighted. Bloggers also seem to agree that it's silly and illogical to claim that you do not allow your recipes to be modified.

What makes this story especially interesting is that nearly all food blogs focused on recipes do post recipes that are adapted from other sources, almost always giving credit to the original source, and mentioning how the recipe was adapted. Even recipe blogs which claim to have "original recipes" often have recipes which are noticeably similar to others found on the web.

Other bloggers weigh in on the issue:
Peter at Kalofagas goes on a Blogging Rant.
The Compost Heap raises the question of reproducing e-mails on the internet.
Joanne at Frutto della Passione definitely supports Melissa.

What are your thoughts on the ownership of recipes?

Kalyn Denny writes about food and at BlogHer.com and shares her passion for cooking at Kalyn's Kitchen. She frequently adapts recipes from cookbooks, magazines, and other blogs, and gratefully credits the source where she found the recipe.

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Kalyn Denny 5 pts

Comments on Melissa's posts are now over 300, and I see other bloggers writing about this nearly every day, so you're not too late to weigh in. It is rather absurd isn't it?

Kalyn Denny
Kalyn's Kitchen ( http://kalynskitchen.blogspot.com )

ejm 5 pts

I'm in here very late to comment. But I just can't help myself. I'm absolutely amazed about this affair.

One would think that CC/ATK/CI would just consider this sort of thing as free advertising. Even if the potato salad recipe was altered to become NO LONGER a potato salad recipe that works because of the alterations that hadn't been tested at least a hundred times. (Please reassure me that I don't really have to say that this last sentence contains sarcasm.)

Just curious (because I don't subscribe to CI, CC and have only seen small parts of ATK a couple of times), do CC/ATK/CI make a point of giving credit to the recipe authors from whom they've taken their recipes, or do they claim to have invented these recipes? If so, imagine that! They invented potato salad!

I wonder which part was their big secret ingredient... was it using Yukon Golds? sour cream? dill pickles? celery seed? These are all ingredients that I do not put into my potato salad ( http://etherwork.net/blog/?p=286 ).

We use Yukon Golds all the time (and love them) but NEVER for potato salad! Personally, I think new red potatoes are the correct potatoes for potato salad. And green beans, oil-cured black olives and grainy mustard are also essential ingredients.  

I have the audacity to call our potato salad the "best potato salad" as well.
To steal line from Woody Allen's "What’s Up Tiger Lily", it's "so good it’ll make you plotz". (Oh oh. Will I and Blogher be contacted by Mr. Allen and/or AIP now because of that quote?) I don't know that I've tested our recipe 100 times though. It might be only 99.

Elizabeth
blog from OUR kitchen ( http://www.etherwork.net/blog/ )

P.S. I would have thought that the PR person would also have been freaking out about her emails being published. To me, that is a much bigger issue. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't email considered to be private? (I know. It's not exactly secure.)

Kalyn Denny 5 pts

That's just what I do mentally. When I'm reading a recipe I'm always thinking about how I would change it up a bit!

Kalyn Denny
Kalyn's Kitchen ( http://kalynskitchen.blogspot.com )

Karina Allrich 5 pts

My stepfather is very left-brained and needs every small step spelled out in a recipe. Each ingredient will be measured, exactly. Me? I like to look at pictures. I see an inspiring photograph and I'm off imagining the tastes and creating a recipe by the seat of my pants. I never measure (I've been forced to for the blog and for my cookbooks- but it feels like an intrusion to the process- I hate it).

One thing that helps- experience. After 30+ years cooking I've had a lot of experience in what works, what doesn't, my likes and dislikes.

This helps me to cook intuitively.

In our culture we value efficiency over intuition. Time is money. The process isn't prized as much as the product- and the profit from that product. 

Interesting side note- when I blog recipes I often suggest substitution ideas and I always encourage readers to TASTE and adjust seasonings to their own liking. I EXPECT folks to riff on what I've done. 

k a r i n a

Karina's Kitchen: Recipes from a [Gluten-Free] Goddess ( http://glutenfreegoddess.blogspot.com/ )

A Painter's Kitchen [art. words. life.] ( http://painterskitchen.blogspot.com/ )

Kalyn Denny 5 pts

Love this as just one example of how new media is letting the consumers decide what's "best."

Never thought of it before, but your comment has made me realize that there are "right-brained cooks" (like you), "left-brained cooks" (like the people at CI) and "integrated brain cooks" (like myself, create recipes sometimes but follow recipes other times.)

I think the extremely left-brained approach is rather boring, but apparently some people don't agree, judging by the success of the CI companies.

Kalyn Denny
Kalyn's Kitchen ( http://kalynskitchen.blogspot.com )

Karina Allrich 5 pts

Like Rachel, I'm also a blogger who makes up my own recipes. I develop my own out of necesssity (celiac disease and multiple food allergies) and the fact that I have never been able to follow directions or stick with an outline (I'm so right-brained it's scary). I wing it when I cook and never follow recipes. I like to play What if... Like- gee, I loved that potato salad I once had at a Cape Cod clam bake- but I don't like sour cream so I'll use olive oil; and I've got some fresh cukes from the market and some dill. What if I add some horseradish? It's cooking based upon an idea.

And you cannot copyright an idea or claim that no one must EVER add to or modify or expand that idea further. It's not only illogical, it's head scratching foolish. This isn't rocket science. It's potato salad.

I also agree that there is a major paradigm shift ocurring.

A handful of corporate run publishers used to weild power and control over what we read, what we perceived. What we craved. Not any more. More and more women are blogging and sharing more than recipes. They're sharing ideas. 

The nerve of these women! To disagree with our "best recipe"? To have the balls to change it? To riff on an idea?

What would June Cleaver say?

k a r i n a

Karina's Kitchen: Recipes from a [Gluten-Free] Goddess ( http://glutenfreegoddess.blogspot.com/ )

A Painter's Kitchen [art. words. life.] ( http://painterskitchen.blogspot.com/ )

sallivates 5 pts

I completely agree with the comment about old vs. new media. This could have generated traffic for Cooks' Illustrated, and they've gone and damaged their standing with readers.

Intellectual property is such a hot topic lately! I'm reminded of the time that ASCAP sued the Girl Scouts for singing around a campfire ( http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/c... ).

Kalyn Denny 5 pts

I hadn't quite made the connection, but you're right that this is very similar. And I absolutely do not see where the problem is for these big companies!

Kalyn Denny
Kalyn's Kitchen ( http://kalynskitchen.blogspot.com )

Megan Smith 5 pts

Hi Kalyn,

I'm not a food blogger, so this whole issue of reprinting recipes is fascinating to me, but I think it's somewhat similar to the fight the AP is having with bloggers ( http://www.blogher.com/blogstorm-bloggers-boycott-... ) quoting from their articles.

To me, the AP gets publicity and more readers for their articles when a blogger posts a short quote and a link to their original AP article.  It's the same with recipes.  Cooks Country got more readers directed to their site by Melissa's post and link. 

Where's the problem?

Megan Smith ( http://www.blogher.com/haystackprofile/viewprofile... )
BlogHer Contributing Editor, TV/YouTube ( http://www.blogher.com/blog/msmith )
Megan's Minute: Quirky Commentary Around The Clock ( http://www.megansminute.com/ )

Kalyn Denny 5 pts

Why CC doesn't know this is a complete mystery to me!

Kalyn Denny
Kalyn's Kitchen ( http://kalynskitchen.blogspot.com )

Nordette Adams 6 pts

Thanks, Kalyn, for this.  As a writer I'm curious about any discussion of copyright.

... even a small amount of internet research will show that recipes are not subject to copyright ( http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl122.html )
except when they are accompanied by "substantial literary expression"
and even then, the list of ingredients cannot be copyrighted. Bloggers
also seem to agree that it's silly and illogical to claim that you do
not allow your recipes to be modified.

Exactly.  That was what I've always heard about copyright and recipes.  Cookbook wizards have battled over this for years.  I think I've heard that changing one ingredient, a minor modification, makes it your recipe and not the other person's.  You'd think that Cooks Country would have been happy Melissa acknowledged them as a source instead of trying to make her life difficult.   Also, genuine copyright disputes usually involve one person making money off another person's work.  Did she make any substantial money off this one blog post?  If she did, then I hope she tells me her secret.

Nordette ( http://blogher.org/blog/nordette ) is a Contributing Editor with BlogHer.com whose personal blog is hosted on another site at this link ( http://bigsole.blogspot.com ).

( http://blogher.org/blog/nordette )

Kalyn Denny 5 pts

I can't help but wonder if the people at CC are genuinely confused by the furor (if they even know about it at all.)

Kalyn Denny
Kalyn's Kitchen ( http://kalynskitchen.blogspot.com )

suebob 7 pts

Another case of old media misunderstanding new media and its possibilities for collaboration instead of competition. Melissa made the mistake of playing by new media rules - considering crediting the original publication as proper attribution, but CC plays by old media rules - what's mine is mine, no sharing.  However, by playing with the wrong set of rules in a new media format, CC has generated enormous ill will and damaged their reputation.

Andrea Meyers 5 pts

Your point is correct. If we are honest about what we do, we must realize that other people will post our work (recipes, photos, etc) just like we adapt things from other sources. Based on the discussion here, I have changed my license as well.

For those who might read this discussion and not know about Creative Commons ( http://www.creativecommons.org ), I suggest reading their licensing pages to understand what it means to share and share alike, etc.

~Andrea,
Andrea's Recipes ( http://www.andreasrecipes.com )

Kalyn Denny 5 pts

I have to agree that I've been really pleased with the quality of the discussion here too. What a great community.

Kalyn Denny
Kalyn's Kitchen ( http://kalynskitchen.blogspot.com )

Norma156 5 pts

Absolutely fabulous, thoughtful discussion.  So glad I stumbled on this.  I'm new to blogher and this kind of thought makes me delighted I activated an account.  Best to you all and thanks for the inside info. 

Kalyn Denny 5 pts

I agree, it will be interesting to see if CI ever comments on this. I'm betting not, Food and Wine certainly never commented at all on the whole Cheese Sandwich Controversy ( http://kalynskitchen.blogspot.com/2006/02/food-mag... ) back in 2006. (I have since forgiven them, and even subscribed to the magazine again this year. But I do hope Pete Wells learned a bit about taking things out of context. That was my big complaint with the article.)

This whole discussion made me re-think how my own copyright notice on Kalyn's Kitchen is worded. I want to be sure it is clear that people can re-post the recipes from there, just that I would appreciate it if they link back to the recipe on my site. Just re-wrote my copyright notice so now it says this:

All Photos and Original Text
(C) Copyright: 2005-2008
Kalyn's Kitchen by Kalyn Denny.
If you re-post a recipe, please give
credit and link to recipe on this site.

Kalyn Denny
Kalyn's Kitchen ( http://kalynskitchen.blogspot.com )

Alanna 5 pts

- but would doubt it. Remember waiting for Food & Wine to respond when Pete Wells called food blogs as boring as cheese sandwiches and we raised holy hell with Cheese Sandwich Day?  (Kalyn, I think you can put your finger on those links?) I thought for sure that there would be SOMETHING. The only 'response' (including to the bloggers who were directly quoted as evidence of 'cheese') was printing one or two letters to the editor later, both in support of Pete Wells. 

Besides, from a pure business perspective, saying anything exposes the possibility that their business model is an anachronism. I remain a fan of Cooks Illustrated -- I learn from it, every issue -- but so far anyway, CI is withstanding the pressure to "give away" their content (online, say) and I'm sure many print publishers look at them with both envy and awe. 

But you just have to them, blogging is the worst thing in the world to happen -- let's just bet that "food bloggers" are thought of us as thieving commoners. 

Alanna Kellogg
Kitchen Parade ( http://kitchenparade.com/ ) &
A Veggie Venture ( http://kitchen-parade-veggieventure.blogspot.com/ )

makriese 5 pts

if Chris Kimball knew what the corporate side of his company was up to. That was my rationale for sticking with them for so long after we began to have issues with them, anyway.

And now I wonder if they aren't taking a page from the RIAA's early playbook: threaten with a fat lawsuit and hope the blogger in question will just meekly remove the offending material and go away. 

Melanie

www.leftcoastmom.com ( http://www.leftcoastmom.com )

Kalyn Denny 5 pts

It is shocking isn't it. My favorite magazine by a long ways is Fine Cooking. Love that magazine and I've adapted and posted a lot of their recipes.

Kalyn Denny
Kalyn's Kitchen ( http://kalynskitchen.blogspot.com )

CityMama 5 pts

Elise is absolutely correct. I am really shocked by CC's short-sightedness on this issue. Actually, no I am not. These kind of stoopid decisions are made all the time. Maybe it's just that I'm surprised that their own agency doesn't "know the rules."

An adapted recipe is exactly that. If it were MFK Fisher expounding on the virtues of potato salad that would be one thing, but adapting a recipe and giving credit then getting called out for it? Ridiculous. I mean, this is POTATO SALAD we're talking about. Don't get me wrong, I love me some potato salad but it's not like the blogger was sharing El Bulli's molecular gastronomy secrets.

I was contemplating renewing my subscription to CI, but now I definitely won't. I'll get Food & Wine instead.

Stefania Pomponi Butler

I blog:
CityMama ( http://citymama.typepad.com )
Kimchi Mamas ( http://kimchimamas.typepad.com )
MOMocrats ( http://momocrats.typepad.com )

Kalyn Denny 5 pts

I am perplexed by the whole thing. I hope they do address it.

Kalyn Denny
Kalyn's Kitchen ( http://kalynskitchen.blogspot.com )

Anna Ginsberg 5 pts

Thanks for opening the discussion further, K. 

I can't wait to hear what CI says about this.  I always admired them in all their preciousness (thanks Candeleria!), but the idea that they'd hire someone go to attack bloggers, has dampened my enthusiasm.  I really hope that this is a case of misunderstanding and miscommunication on the part of the PR person and that CI stands up for themselves.  And this certainly has to be some sort of misunderstanding because how can CI explain the fact that they allow posters in the Cooks' Illustrated forum to cut and paste unaltered copyright protected recipes on their forum.  If you don't believe me, go to the forum type in "copyright" and you'll get several recipes direct from other sources.

Surely CI isn't as skeevy as this situation is making them out to be.  Maybe  Chris Kimball will address this in his little letter from Vermont.

Anna from Cookie Madness ( http://www.cookiemadness.net )

Kalyn Denny 5 pts

Glad it answered some questions for you too.

Kalyn Denny
Kalyn's Kitchen ( http://kalynskitchen.blogspot.com )

kellypea 5 pts

...but it answers a question I've had for a very long time.  Thanks for all the links, Kalyn, as I've been able to go back and read it all.  I'm still amazed that it happened, and have always felt strongly that if I link and give credit to original sources, that not only am I giving credit where credit is due, but advertising.  I publish many of the recipes I make from magazines I have subscriptions to, and cookbooks I own.  Ironically, I no longer take Cook's Illustrated because I had to get their separate subscription to have access on line.  At some point, I believe this is the epitome of cutting off one's nose to spite one's face.  Congrats to Melissa for taking this on.

Sass & Veracity

Kalyn Denny 5 pts

I think more and more cooks are starting to trust food blogs as a recipe source. Maybe that's making the big guns feel anxious?

Kalyn Denny
Kalyn's Kitchen ( http://kalynskitchen.blogspot.com )

Candelaria Silva 5 pts

blog.candelariasilva.com

Good and plenty!

 All of your comments are so wise.  The sharing of this recipe as it was originally done would drive people who didn't know about it, to check out Cooks Illustrated and the affiliated websites.  No, it makes people not want to check them out.

 They've always been a bit precious, now they've moved into being inconsiderate, rude, and reflect the worse of the corporatization of so many areas of our lives.

I'll stick wit the food bloggers when I'm trying to find recipes.

 Blog on!

Kalyn Denny 5 pts

Yes, Elise is always on top of things; she's the greatest. Thanks for stopping by here. It must be gratifying for you to be getting so much support from your fellow food bloggers.

Kalyn Denny
Kalyn's Kitchen ( http://kalynskitchen.blogspot.com )

Kalyn Denny 5 pts

Seems incredible that a big company like this is not more well-versed in the law, doesn't it?

Kalyn Denny
Kalyn's Kitchen ( http://kalynskitchen.blogspot.com )

alosha7777 5 pts

Elise knows her stuff.  I actually saw remarks by her on some blogs from last year when I was researching this issue.

Thanks for another thoughtful post on this Kalyn!

Elise Bauer 5 pts

There are two problems for CC/CI/ATK.  First is a public relations problem.  The second is a legal problem.  They simply do not have a legal leg to stand on here.  Worse, if they actually went to the effort of suing a food blogger over the use of one of their recipes, modified or not, they could be liable for tens of thousands of dollars of damages, for  falsely asserting copyright rights where they have none. Recipes are methods, ideas, and as such, unless there is "substantial literary expression", or a substantial portion of an entire collection is being copied,  they are not subject to copyright law.  CC/CI/ATK should consult an intellectual property attorney before setting their PR firm on strong-arm tactics going after food bloggers.

Elise BauerSimply Recipes ( http://www.elise.com/recipes )

coconutlime 5 pts

It is pretty rare, it has happened a few times, but only once to that extent. Plus I think if I was  a magazine like Cook's Country and not a easily reachable/approachable blogger they might not have contacted me at all and it would have been a nonissue.

 It is fun to see the modified recipes, especially if they veganized them or did something extra clever. And it is a great way to reach a new audience.

check out my recipe blog, Coconut & Lime ( http://coconutlime.blogspot.com ), my cooking review/tips site Food Maven ( http://foodmaven.blogspot.com ).

Kalyn Denny 5 pts

Thanks for the inside scoop.

Kalyn Denny
Kalyn's Kitchen ( http://kalynskitchen.blogspot.com )

Kalyn Denny 5 pts

Of course every often-cooked recipe once had an original version. How great to have handed-down recipes like that. What I meant is that there are so many similar recipes for every famous dish, and so many talented and creative cooks coming up with ideas all the time that sometimes it's hard (as a food blogger) to come up with things that seem "new."

Kalyn Denny
Kalyn's Kitchen ( http://kalynskitchen.blogspot.com )

Kalyn Denny 5 pts

I am (so!) not a baker, but I did give my sister a copy of Baking from My Home to Yours. The book was so beautiful, which is one thing I think protects Dorie from any danger of people not buying her books due to the online recipe versions. Also, I'm thinking her fans like to hold the book in their hands.

I agree, she is great. I subscribe to her blog and am a fan even though I'm not a baker.

Kalyn Denny
Kalyn's Kitchen ( http://kalynskitchen.blogspot.com )

Kalyn Denny 5 pts

with the cupcakes. But I think that kind of thing is rare, don't you? And I agree totally that the "no modifications in print" policy is completely insane.

When I do post original recipes, I'm not at all bothered if people modify them (although like you, I appreciate it if they link back to the original recipe.) Sometimes I even end up liking the modified version better than my original one!

Kalyn Denny
Kalyn's Kitchen ( http://kalynskitchen.blogspot.com )

makriese 5 pts

I gave up on Cook's Illustrated a couple of years ago after more than a year of them sending me books I didn't order and then demanding payment. Under California law, those books would be considered a gift and I was not obligated to pay for them. All of which I told them, to no avail. They kept sending the books--over my express objections--and sending me bills, past due notices and a note that they were sending me to collections. Once that was finally cleared up, I had to tell them in writing that they were to ship nothing else to my house. I also cancelled my magazine subscription. 

On another note: My husband was one of their recipe testers for a while and even those recipies have safeguards on them. They email the link which is only active for a short period of time. Of course in this they had a valid reason, but still: I used to wonder if the copy we printed would self-destruct at some point. :) 

Anyway, long story but, while I love the shows, I don't love the company. The Microsoft of the food world.

Melanie

www.leftcoastmom.com ( http://www.leftcoastmom.com )

TemperedWoman 5 pts

Yay Alanna for bringing up Dorie!! I mentioned the same thing on another blog. I can't help but wonder how many folks have gone out and bought Dorie's cookbook because of the blog groups... because I personally think it is amazing that she doesn't mind everyone posting the recipes. It is her hard work that went in to the cookbooks after all and at some point each and every recipe will be online and searchable by anyone.

What really baffles me is that the PR company appeared to be more concerned with her using their name attached to the recipe rather than using the recipe itself. If she would have just posted the recipe without any credit it's as if none of this would have even been an issue. huh? Is that really the path we want to go down? Not bothering to recognize inspiration or credit an original idea we came across? I think it is really too bad that CI/CC has underestimated how large and influential the food blogging community has become...

junosmom 5 pts

Cathy
http://www.lifetimelearning.blogspot.com

I would say that she used the original recipe for inspiration, but once you change a recipe, it is no longer that recipe, but your own.  I don't know what a court would say, but in my opinion, she had a right to post it.  I think she was kind to mention the magazine at all.  

I do think there are some original recipes, for example my own family's recipe for Cincinnati Chili and my Grandma Rose's spaghetti sauce from Tuscany.  These have been handed down.  Most other recipes we have have been developed and changed over the years, but started with a written recipe somewhere.

coconutlime 5 pts

I know I post only original recipes on my site (and spend 40+ hrs a week developing those recipes at great personal expense) but of course not all of my recipes are 100% unique-I can't claim to have invented chocolate cake or bread or cookies, just the recipes/technique that I developed in my kitchen to make mine. I think there is a difference between an "original" recipe-one that was created and written up without using a previously published recipe as a guide and an "unique" recipe which is an entirely new food/concept completely. Using Andrea's example, my recipe for zucchini bread might be the result of hours of testing in my kitchen but by virtue of the fact that it is zucchini bread my recipe will probably end up not looking that different than the next guy's, just tailored to my tastes and what I have on hand.

In this particular case their argument seems particularly odd as virtually all potato salads are the same basic concept. The blogger changed so much if she was less honest and didn't mention that she used the CC recipe as a guide, no one would have known. It isn't as if she copied word for word something truly unique or unusual. Potato salad, like chocolate chip cookies, sorbet and so many other basic, classic recipes only have so many ways to be tweaked.

To me the most puzzling thing about the Cook's Country debacle is their insistence on no modifications in print. Their focus on the "best recipe" turned me off their publications years ago. What is my taste is not necessarily theirs and vice versa. Frankly Cook's Illustrated is why I stopped following recipes all together four years ago and just rely on taste, touch and experimentation. I just had had one too many horrible "best" recipe experiences and decided to trust my insincts.

I also find it strange that Cook's Country is completely uninterested in any free promotion/good will with food bloggers .  What if someone loved the recipe but had to leave something out do to an allergy? Is that harming their product?

Personally, I do not mind if someone modifies my recipe and posts it, especially if they link back to the original. My one bit of sympathy for Cook's Country comes from what happened regarding a recipe for cuba libre cupcakes I created and posted on C&L. Someone posted the the recipe with some severe modifications to a popular online recipe sharing group and then attributed it to me but didn't link to the original or mention that she had modified it. The modified recipe didn't work at all and when she didn't answer people's emails about it, they turned to me and I of course didn't know anything about it. I must have gotten 50 e-mails with in a week or two of the incident and 2 years later still get at least one a month. It was pretty frustrating and if that happend to Cook's Country frequently, I could see wanting to take steps to avoid it-a clear fair use policy perhaps?

However, I accept that by putting my recipes out there I can't control what someone might do with them no matter how nicely I might ask for attribution. I would think CI could accept the same, they have a magazine with a large subscriber base, charge even magazine subscribers to use their website, have a cooking show, cookbooks etc and are surely making a good enough profit that they don't have to shake down food bloggers for crediting sources.

Check out my recipe blog, Coconut & Lime ( http://coconutlime.blogspot.com ), my cooking review/tips site Food Maven ( http://foodmaven.blogspot.com ).

Kalyn Denny 5 pts

Good point about the lack of food sponsors this year, although to be fair, Butterball was a major conference sponsor last year. If food advertisers had any idea how much food bloggers could make or break their products, they would adopt better methods of reaching out than writing and saying "We're coming out with a new line of xyz and we thought you might like to let your readers know about it."

I sometimes wonder if there are any truly original recipes! That's one of the things that make this whole incident so laughable. That and the fact that it's a recipe for potato salad, probably one of the most variable dishes you could ever imagine. My sister makes the best potato salad in our family, and even she adapts her own recipe once in a while.

Kalyn Denny
Kalyn's Kitchen ( http://kalynskitchen.blogspot.com )

Kalyn Denny 5 pts

I was a bit surprised in the comments on Melissa's post how many bloggers said similar things about no longer supporting those sites, shows, or cookbooks. I've never been a big fan in the first place, but I do love the Cooks Illustrated book "The Best Vegetable Recipes."

Maybe they will come to their senses?

Kalyn Denny
Kalyn's Kitchen ( http://kalynskitchen.blogspot.com )

Andrea Meyers 5 pts

One more note, re: Kalyn's statement "Even recipe blogs which claim to have "original recipes" often have recipes which are noticeably similar to others found on the web."

I'd say not just on the web but in any cookbook or magazine. I pointed this out recently when I wrote about an Italian zucchini cake recipe from a famous pastry chef's cookbook which I found to be very similar to my Southern mother's zucchini bread recipe. Recipes inherently get passed down or passed along, and it is illogical and silly to claim that one recipe is the best recipe or one source's recipe is the only way to make something.

Andrea

Andrea's Recipes ( http://www.andreasrecipes.com )

Andrea Meyers 5 pts

I was so sad when I read Melissa's post because I learned so much from watching America's Test Kitchen in the early seasons, and my boys even enjoy watching it with me. CI/ATK/CC have not done a good job of adapting their business model, as Alanna points out, and this PR fiasco isn't going to help. And the zillions of phone calls I get from them inviting me to buy something else isn't endearing, either.

There are thousands of food bloggers. We love to cook (and eat) and share it with others online. I've never gotten bad feedback and often have received gracious thanks from other cookbook authors when I posted about one of their books or recipes.

I think it's high time for companies in the food biz to realize that working with the food blogging community is good for business, just like working with mommy bloggers. I saw tons of companies at BlogHer focusing their efforts at reaching out to mommy bloggers, but how many were reaching out to food
bloggers? One.

Andrea

Andrea's Recipes ( http://www.andreasrecipes.com )

Genie Gratto 9 pts

I just went over and read the original post and the one about the email exchange, and as far as I'm concerned, I will now simply stop spending any money on any of those corporate entities. They should know better than to hire such a snarky PR person with such terrible interpersonal skills...and with so little apparent grasp of copyright law when it comes to recipes. This can't be good for the CI/ATC/CC dynasty at all...

And I completely agree, Kalyn -- she really didn't have to credit them at all. I realize any publicity is technically good publicity, but in this case, I'm not sure that holds true -- she could have just run the recipe without naming them at all in the first place, which might have saved the day for CI/ATC/CC!

--- Genie, The Inadvertent Gardener ( http://www.theinadvertentgardener.com )

Kalyn Denny 5 pts

I do think it will be very interesting to see if CC/CI/ATK tries to keep that model of charging for access to recipes. When I came across this, I was astounded that they would ask her to remove a recipe that had been significantly changed from their version. She could have easily posted the recipe without mentioning them at all, it was that much changed.

Dorie is definitely a model for other cookbook authors in dealing with the food blogging community. I recently saw a post on a family blog in Utah about "10 things to do before I die" and "meet Dorie" was one of the things listed!

Kalyn Denny
Kalyn's Kitchen ( http://kalynskitchen.blogspot.com )

Alanna 5 pts

... Cooks Illustrated remains one of a few publishing organizations attempting to monetize its online content directly. Print subscribers have no access to recipes online - that's a separate subscription. Print subscribers are given access to particular recipes online - but only for a couple of months after print publication. (Another is the Wall Street though there is wide speculation that this will drop later further into the Murcoch regime. The NYT experimented with TimesSelect, paid access to particular columns, etc. but dropped it awhile back.)

What's most interesting, however, is the pr debacle Cooks Illustrated/Chris Kimball are in the thick of -because of the condescending tone and ridiculous back-and-forth exchange with someone from their own staff. Let's just know -- she's not having a good day, it's not going to get better. 

I also wonder about this: Cook's Illustrated is constantly sending out copies of Cooks Illustrated and Cooks Country -- they're promo copies, a collection of recipes from various issues put together in a promotion issue. But they're sent withOUT a subscription, so it seems to me, they're putting those recipes out into the public domain, just like Gourmet/Bon Appetit/others do on their own sites. 

BTW -- in contrast, there's Dorie Greenspan, whose recipes (especially from Baking: My Home to Yours) are everywhere and who hugs the food blog community every time. With a recipe that either the Daring Bakers or Tuesdays with Dorie (a brilliant name!) had trouble with, she went back and remade it and came back with new hints. Is it any wonder food bloggers love Dorie? 

You go, Melissa ... you're challenging an entire business model and you've got food bloggers at your back, drawing our chefs knifes to join the fight. 

Alanna Kellogg
Kitchen Parade ( http://kitchenparade.com/ ) &
A Veggie Venture ( http://kitchen-parade-veggieventure.blogspot.com/ )