France Submits Bill to Outlaw Veils Outside the Home

Allowed or not desiring to go out of the house are two separate things. For instance, I am not allowed to go outside without my clothes on. But it's my choice if I don't want to leave the house without lipstick and heels. And I don't think this is a case of "not allowed" as it is a desire to not go out if it means not being able to live your ethics.

Melissa writes Stirrup Queens ( http://stirrup-queens.com ) and Lost and Found ( http://lostandfoundandconnectionsabound.blogspot.c... ). Her book is Navigating the Land of If ( http://thelandofif.blogspot.com/ ).

I just have to ask, and I have no care what so ever on whether these women practice wearing the niqab, burqa, hijab or what have you, but if it's not a form of oppression, then why is it that these women AREN'T allowed to go anywhere if it gets banned? If it's just a form of religious right, freedom or an expression of their value system, if it represents all these INTANGIBLE things, then why can't they be allowed outside of their homes? Aren't those same intangible expressions or beliefs still able to be carried with them regardless of whatever it is that they wear?

Just my thughts, if someone doesn't mind answering.

Thank you Melissa! If you'd like to learn more about programs that educate women check out the book, "Half The Sky" by Nicholas Kristof and Sheryl WuDunn. It is very eye opening.

Micro Grants & Free Resources, http://iiwomen.com ( http://iiwomen.com/New/index.htm )

Absolutely. And there shouldn't be any excuses for discrimination.

I'm on the computer, hence the quick responses :-)

Melissa writes Stirrup Queens ( http://stirrup-queens.com ) and Lost and Found ( http://lostandfoundandconnectionsabound.blogspot.c... ). Her book is Navigating the Land of If ( http://thelandofif.blogspot.com/ ).

Agreed. I am just saying that no one should have to tolerate discrimination simply for visiting any part of this world. I think many times people are quick to justify discrimination when it comes in the form of culture.

BTW, I'm very impressed by your quick responses. You are on the ball, lady. :)

Well...and this is where it gets tricky...the US (for instance) is not a culture that is anti-headscarf. We are a culture that says that we're for people having choice and individual rights for self-expression. Therefore, telling someone to take off their headscarf while in America (or France) would actually be AGAINST what we claim is a founding belief of our country.

Melissa writes Stirrup Queens ( http://stirrup-queens.com ) and Lost and Found ( http://lostandfoundandconnectionsabound.blogspot.c... ). Her book is Navigating the Land of If ( http://thelandofif.blogspot.com/ ).

Anyone who has been a child (um...all of us?) at some point should have internalized this: educating helps, having rules thrown at us do not. When I knew the reasons behind something, I made better choices. And who is to say that a lack of head covering IS the better choice? Perhaps there is so much gained from wearing it that those outside the experience who are trying to change the experience could learn. The education needs to flow both ways--do you hear that, France?

Melissa writes Stirrup Queens ( http://stirrup-queens.com ) and Lost and Found ( http://lostandfoundandconnectionsabound.blogspot.c... ). Her book is Navigating the Land of If ( http://thelandofif.blogspot.com/ ).

I agree that you should respect others when you visit another country, but I will not allow myself to be discriminated against for my gender as part of showing respect. I will do anything that a man in my position would be expected to do to show respect to that culture.

If we start changing who we are to fit with the places we are visiting, we would have to expect Muslim women to take off their head scarves in the Western world. I just think all cultures should try to be more inclusive and allow differences without showing disrespect.

BTW, my biggest traveling pet peev is when people talk loudly in English to people who don't speak English, as if that is going to suddenly allow them to understand. Duh! ha ha.

Also, this is a serious question: I was wondering how governments handle picture I.D.'s when it comes to Muslim women who wear head scarves? Wouldn't they have to remove at least their face coverings for the picture? I wonder how they address this issue.

Attacking a groups religious beliefs never turns out well. The real problem appears to be basic human rights. If a woman wants to wear a veil, who are we to tell her not to.

As for people who use it oppress women, how about instead of attacking their beliefs we spend our time educating women in countries where women are forced to wear a covering.

This reminds me of the problem with female genital mutilation. When outsiders try to tell vilages of people in Africa that cutting is wrong, it backfires. These people see it as an attack on their culture, not as a way to help. There is a group called Tostan which has made great strides in ending genital mutilation, by education villagers about health risks and womens rights. They don't go to villages and say you have to stop this. They educate the villagers, who can then make the decision to stop.

Micro Grants & Free Resources, http://iiwomen.com ( http://iiwomen.com/New/index.htm )

Thank you! Going to go check out that link.

Melissa writes Stirrup Queens ( http://stirrup-queens.com ) and Lost and Found ( http://lostandfoundandconnectionsabound.blogspot.c... ). Her book is Navigating the Land of If ( http://thelandofif.blogspot.com/ ).

Great post, I enjoy your informative writing style with included visuals!

I think you might be interested in this NPR interview of Leila Ahmed from Speaking of Faith,

http://speakingoffaith.publicradio.org/programs/mu...

Blog on!
www.chelsearising.com ( http://www.chelsearising.com )

Agreed--no one should be enforcing their beliefs on another person. Though I am a firm believer in following the house rules regardless of my own traditions. If people come in my house, they take off their shoes, even if they wear them in their own house. And I feel the same way about visiting another country--especially when it is a choice (and not part of a job). Or even places within my own country.

The question then comes down to if there is special significance to the headdress and if by wearing it, you're making a statement beyond modesty. An agreement to certain ideas.

Melissa writes Stirrup Queens ( http://stirrup-queens.com ) and Lost and Found ( http://lostandfoundandconnectionsabound.blogspot.c... ). Her book is Navigating the Land of If ( http://thelandofif.blogspot.com/ ).

I want to first say that I am totally against a ban, but I do think it is interesting that these women are taught at a young age to wear this uniform. Many started at the age of seven, which is hardly an age to make an educated decision. Everyone is indoctrinated with different ideas at a young age no matter what their religion or culture. I just think that these scarves are no different than any other religious tradition that children are taught at a very young age.

I also respect the right of people to wear head scarves in the Western world, but I think they then shouldn't expect western women to wear them in Muslim countries. A friend of mine in the Peace Corps was chased down the street in Morocco because she wasn't wearing a head scarf. Little boys threw stones at her. She couldn't leave her dorm without a male escort. And even though the male escort was being paid to take her around, he told her that he didn't have to do what she told him because she was a woman. I think this attitude is just as bad, if not worse, than France's attitude toward head scarves. Both are wrong, but yet we hear more about the injustices of banning head scarves than the injustices of forcing head scarves upon those who don't want to wear them.

I guess I'm just saying that both the West and the Muslim world try to impose the majority's cultural viewpoint on their countrys' greater populations. It is wrong and we need to work to correct this in the West and in Muslim society.

I agree wholeheartedly. There is plenty of fashion or religious-articles I don't partake in (even within my own religion!), and that's my choice. But I don't understand that next step--taking away another person's choice--and how it is freeing.

But dude, if you ban bras, I'm throwing mine away too :-)

Melissa writes Stirrup Queens ( http://stirrup-queens.com ) and Lost and Found ( http://lostandfoundandconnectionsabound.blogspot.c... ). Her book is Navigating the Land of If ( http://thelandofif.blogspot.com/ ).

It would only be fair for the sake of the secular state.

Melissa writes Stirrup Queens ( http://stirrup-queens.com ) and Lost and Found ( http://lostandfoundandconnectionsabound.blogspot.c... ). Her book is Navigating the Land of If ( http://thelandofif.blogspot.com/ ).

Melissa...

Yeah, I've always found the ones with a dead Jesus very offensive. Hopefully, they will be the next to go. Seems to promote a culture of death, or worshiping dead people, so seems like a good next step.

Cherish each moment, learn from each person you meet, gather wisdom and peace with each passing day

Let's just say that I decide that bras are an "assault on women's dignity." After all, they're uncomfortable, and according to some studies, may even contribute to cancer. So I will ban them, to protect women. Or baggy sweaters or tight jeans or high heels or ugly fashions --- once you open the door to a government dictating allowable fashion, and especially when the clothing in question does not result in exposing "private parts" (far from it!), you are heading down a very dangerous path. And when you add religious expression to the mix...government needs to keep its hand off. I have many friends who wear hijabs, and do so by their own choice. Do I like the full veils or even more all-encompassing clothing? Nope. But fortunately, I don't have to wear it. Nor do I have to stop those who choose to do so from expressing their own choices. Works for me!

Cherish each moment, learn from each person you meet, gather wisdom and peace with each passing day

It would be interesting to learn how the first ban affected girls going to school.

I hope France will be consistent and ban the wearing of crosses. Or churches placing crosses on the outside of their building.

Melissa writes Stirrup Queens ( http://stirrup-queens.com ) and Lost and Found ( http://lostandfoundandconnectionsabound.blogspot.c... ). Her book is Navigating the Land of If ( http://thelandofif.blogspot.com/ ).

I feel the ban is outrageous and an insult to muslim women. Why does the west feel so morally superior? We can't make assumptions that women don't want to wear a veil or that by banning the wearing of a vail, we are liberating women. For the majority of muslim women in western countries it is their choice to wear it based on modesty, religious symbolism or simply a part of their value system. Women are strong regardless of their religion or ethnicity and don't need a government to "save" them. Take a look at the women in Iran who demonstrated and were brave in the face of an oppressive government during last year's elections.
I don't know why France has taken this hard line? When they banned the wearing of headscarves in school, I imagine some girls had to stay home from school. How is that helping anyone? These bans stir up religious conflict. It really irritates me!