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Free Speech and Double Standards

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During a recent interview Michael Moore compared people going through foreclosure to victims of rape.

I need to type it again because maybe then I'll believe it: a man compared people in a situation by choice - as no one held a gun to their head and forced them to agree to loan terms they may be unable to fulfill in hard times; people who purchased more house than they could afford; people who purchased second and third homes; people who had to downsize because of the economy - to women who were raped, forced to spread their legs against their will.

I'm going to take a safe guess and say that Michael Moore doesn't know a victim of rape or has never known physical violation. I have two friends who are survivors of rape and in my family we have dealt with a similar violation. The two are so not the same and I found Moore's analogy so appallingly offensive that my vision took on a red cast, such was my fury. That Moore would compare something replaceable and temporary, like a home, a material thing, to the soul which is cracked in a moment of sexual violence, to a woman's virginity, to the sanctity of her sexuality, demonstrates a lack of respect for women, a lack of understanding, willful ignorance in this era of information.

****

Chris Matthews lost the thrill up his leg earlier last week and fantasized about the murder of Rush Limbaugh:

You guys see Live and Let Die, the great Bond film with Yaphet Kotto as the bad guy, Mr. Big? In the end they jam a big CO2 pellet in his face and he blew up. I have to tell you, Rush Limbaugh is looking more and more like Mr. Big, and at some point somebodys going to jam a CO2 pellet into his head and hes going to explode like a giant blimp. That day may come. Not yet. But well be there to watch. I think hes Mr. Big, I think Yaphet Kotto. Are you watching, Rush?

I've heard nothing from anyone condemning such speech, except from some conservative bloggers.

****

Janeane Garofalo made the remark several months ago that black Americans who didn't support Obama have "Stockholm Syndrome." Naturally, that didn't sit too well with all the black conservatives I know.

Again, crickets.

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Joe Biden was in town Thursday to fundraise for area Democrats. He was captured on tape during the election making aprejudiced remark about people from India and 7-11.

More crickets.

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Rush Limbaugh, known for being a bombastic conservative, had false quotes attributed to him and had the meaning of his past statements (when not completely fabricated) distorted out of context by people who have NEVER listened to his show and people who could never, EVER give an air date, an audio recording, or any other citation beyond hearsay to support the serious charge of racism. His comment on Donovan McNabb, whether you agree of his assessment of McNabb's ability (which I sort of disagree) or not, it was a comment on the often-times racist way sports news covers black and white athletes in sports, period. His comment on gangs and basketball was in reference to midnight basketball, a program that was devised in many cities, including St. Louis, to curb gang violence. In my hometown city here of St. Louis it became a scandal which involved then-mayor Freeman Bosley, Jr.'s administration that disenfranchised many children.

Limbaugh a racist? A man whose talented producer is black? A man who asks popular black broadcaster Walt Williams ("black by popular demand!") to sub for him and speak to his millions of listeners? Do I think Limbaugh is racist? No. He's conservative and I do think he pisses people off and I think it's easier and more efficient for people now days to try to neutralize a political or ideological threat by smearing them as a racist instead of simply debating the issues. But conservative does not equal racist.

Dislike a person for their views, fine. But don't fabricate reasons to dislike them. Don't put my city at risk of losing a losing (I know, sigh, they should be grateful to have ANY interest from ANY buyers right now) franchise, costing jobs in a time when we can least afford the loss, and risking revenue for St. Louis over a political hitjob because you dislike the politics of one in the group of

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Mata H 5 pts

It's not fun to respond when you're essentially called a liar and uninformed simply because people don't agree with you.

Well, I didn't think reading your post was a ton-o-fun, either. And I did not call you a liar. I did, however, provide actual evidence of Mr Limbaugh's racist remarks in both audio and in context in visuals. Feel free to dislike the site that posted them, but they stand as actual quotes, documented by actual audio/visuals. I find it hard to see how Mr Limbaugh's telling an African-American caller into his old radio show to "take that bone out of your nose and call me back" is anything but racist. Not a lot of "context" on that one. In fact, it is also verified by snopes.com, hardly a partisan group, and Mr Limbaugh himself said he regretted having said it (also snopes.com).

It is clear that in some settings he has been misquoted, a common thing on ether side of the political fence, and equally wrong. That does not erase his actual statements that can be verified.

To say that your research was not complete is not a taunt or an insult. Nor is it some knock because I disagree with you. It is merely a fact, born out by the examples. It would be easier to listen to you points if they were accurately substantiated. But that is just my opinion.

If Rush Limbaugh decides to speak provocatively (and no one can disagree with that characterization), then he has to be bright enough to know that a reaction will follow. To call it a simple "witch hunt" is not fair at all, in my opinion.

Has there been a concerted effort to untangle his inaccuracies, and to hold up his statements to the light of day -- yes. Have people disagreed with him - yes. And why not?

~~ Contributing Editor, Mata H. also blogs right along at Time's Fool ( http://timesfool.blogspot.com )

Mamalogues 5 pts

It's not fun to respond when you're essentially called a liar and uninformed simply because people don't agree with you. 

I posted audio with my quotes, sorry, but because the attributions (I've seen some of the made-up quotes posted in these comments and treated as fact - and I'm uninformed?) given to Limbaugh are either from a book in which some dude made them up and everyone acts like it's the truth, or they're taken out of context by people who've never listened to the show but are eager to misrepresent statements due to hatred of the man. Don't like him, fine. I'm not defending the man, I'm speaking out against the witch hunt. People quoting Media Matters which don't accurately source beyond hearsay (we have audio, Sunshine some proof, people) or misrepresenting statements is like me quoting Malkin for you all. 

Mata - that's great that you think it's OK for me to be a conservative but then you go and insult me in the same graph by calling me "uninformed" simply because you disagree with my point of view. Disagreement does not constitute misunderstanding on my part. Again, no mention of how several of these quotes in these comments are bunk - yet I'm the one called uninformed. 

Perhaps I'd be more eager to engage in discussion if I wasn't insulted at every turn simply because I have a different perspective. Disagree with it, fine, but the taunts and knocks at my research are a little much. 

Nordette Adams 6 pts

Mata, don't waste your precious time and energy. We've been down this road before on this very website with Dana back when she used to respond to people in the comment section. Here's what I wrote to you ( http://bigsole.blogspot.com/2009/10/dont-lose-slee... ) but did not to post on this thread.

I hope you're having a beautiful autumn up there.

Nordette Adams ( http://www.bookotopia.com ) is a BlogHer CE ( http://www.blogher.com/haystackprofile/viewprofile... ) & you can find her other stuff through Her 411 ( http://her411.com ).

SpendWiselyTexas@gmail.com 5 pts

I would really like to hear the author of this blog respond to the comments on this post. I've lived outside the US for the past 9 years (returned in March of this year) and so am a bit out of touch with current cultural touchstones. I don't think Rush Limbaugh seems like a particularly nice human being but are any of the sport franchise owners? I do wonder why Rush has been singled out as I'm sure when it comes to racist comments some of the other owners could match him word for word. Will there be a new standard with respect to speech and behavior in the sports world? If so, how lovely.  Dana has started a conversation that could be quite interesting but only if she as the author contributes and clarifies her arguments. FYI - I'm a straight black woman  who is crushingly conservative when it comes to money (think Marc Faber and Gerald Celente) and a whole heartedly, flaming liberal when it comes to social issues (uh why is anyone concerned about gay marriage?).

Spend Wisely Texas - Living Well and Spending Less in Texas

Leighbra 5 pts

Is she interested in actually being part of the conversation, or just writing flaming response posts to other conversations going on on BlogHer?

If she's part of the conversation, YAY! Even if I don't agree, I LOVE the debate.

If she's not going to contribute anything other than her initial post and then flee to the land of ignoring what people have to say to protect her world views, then I'm done clicking her posts.

Maybe I'm done anyway because they seem to be angry point-by-point responses to other recent posts, and if she wanted to be part of the conversation, she would reply right in those posts.

I don't think that BlogHer should be or has to be all one liberal view-point, but I've always valued BlogHer for the depth of conversation.

Mata H 5 pts

I don't mind that you are a conservative. This country has lots of room for differing opinions. I do mind that you post strong statements without doing research first. If you would like to see a list of racist coments by Rush Limbaugh (AND the accompanying long sound bites in Limbaugh's own voice) just click here ( http://mediamatters.org/research/200910130049 ). By the way, are you even reading this?

~~ Contributing Editor, Mata H. also blogs right along at Time's Fool ( http://timesfool.blogspot.com )

BarbD 5 pts

Tom,

Apparently, Limbaugh was considered as a commentator ( http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=2549%20 ) on Monday Night football earlier in the decade. According to the authors, "Compared to some talk radio hosts, racism is not central to Rush Limbaugh's shtick. But there has been a pattern of commentary indicating his willingness to exploit prejudice against blacks to further his on-air arguments."

I don't view my world in the "them" and "us" language you use. I don't listen to Rush Limbaugh -- nor to Keith Olberman. Neither of them (or any of the other usual suspects) advances our knowledge of the world or the issues we face. And because people who bloviate for a living tend towards being offensive in order to gain market share, I think it's important to call them on it.

We can have a conversation all day about the hypocrisy of people on each side of the political divide. I'd rather look for ways we can find common ground.

BarbD
The Middle Way ( http://barberra.typepad.com/the_middle_way/ )

Nordette Adams 6 pts

Limbaugh a racist? A man whose talented producer is black? A man who asks popular black broadcaster Walt Williams ("black by popular demand!") to sub for him and speak to his millions of listeners? Do I think Limbaugh is racist? No. ~~Dana Loesch

Dana, you've got comedic gifts.

Nordette Adams ( http://www.bookotopia.com ) is a BlogHer CE ( http://www.blogher.com/haystackprofile/viewprofile... ) & you can find her other stuff through Her 411 ( http://her411.com ).

simon 5 pts

@ ( http://twitter.com/ ) tomtheredhunter

none of the statements on the link provided by barbD are racist?

how is telling a black person to "...take the bone out of their nose..." not a racist statement?

Leighbra 5 pts

You've known people that have been sexually assaulted, have you know anyone that's lost their home due to circumstances outside of their control?

Behind us, a nice family with 3 young children had a modest, TWO bedroom house in a rural area. Certainly not more house then they needed, or could afford. Within months, their middle child was diagnosed with progressive cancer and their insurance dumped them, THEN the bank that held their mortgage folded. A new bank, held afloat with tax payer's monies, bought the mortgage and added a zero to their interest rate.

My neighbor used the EXACT words "I feel like I've been raped." Her husband added to that, saying WHERE he felt he had been raped.

Insinuating that all people in this economic down-turn largely orchestrated by negligence from TOP to BOTTOM in the banking industry are low-life, poor planning vultures is like raping them again. The banking industry has forced many American families to spread their cheeks, against their will, I GET the analogy.

Maybe you don't get the hopelessness that so many American families are feeling right now.

How about my widowed aunt who lost her home after Enron was shown to be a group of lecherous monsters, and she was suddenly out of job and out of a pension she had paid into for 20 years. Was she in the situation where she lost her home by CHOICE?

I don't like Michael Moore's work, and think his "ends justify the means" "documentary" editing work is shady at best, but I do not understand why you are in such a hurry on BlogHer to paint everyone with that great big wide brush that pisses you off so much.

TomtheRedhunter 5 pts

Oh hang it up, BarbD, not a single one of those quotes is racist.   We've gotten to the point where anything liberals don't like they call racist.  It's an all-purpose argument when they don't have a real argument. 

Leighbra makes little sense.

The fact is that Dana is absolutely right; there is a huge double standard with regards to these matters and it is disgusting.   Because Rush does not say anything that is racist they have to invent quotes, and when caught resort to the drivel that BarbD posts.   Then they bring on racebaiters Jesse Jackson (of "hymietown" fame) and Al Sharpton (Twania Brawley, Freddie's Fashion Mart, on and on).

Then there's Keith Olberman, who co-hosts NBC's Football Night in America.  If a political pundit like him can do that, why can't Limbaugh be involved?   The two are roughly equal. 

The reason, as stated earlier, is that there's a huge double standard.

Leighbra 5 pts

The husband and I were chatting about your basically saying that people in foreclosure are there because they're stupid, lazy, or greedy, and he said...

"Wow, isn't that the same thing as saying 'She deserved it, they shouldn't have been alone with that guy. She deserved it, she shouldn't have worn that short skirt. She deserved it, she shouldn't have been in that alley.'"

BarbD 5 pts

Fairness & Accuracy in Reporting (FAIR) has long documented Rush Limbaugh's remarks (racist and otherwise) -- with dates. Here's their latest action alert:  http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=3928.

NOfreelunch 5 pts

...because everyone knows if someone insinuates or flat out accuses you of being a racist for not agreeing with the health care bill or criticizing tax-and-spend, deficit-balloning, nanny state mentality and you respond by saying you're not a racist, that of course means you are. Stating that you're not a racist in response to being accused of being a racist = racist. Standing there and staying silent = you're a racist. Telling that person they're an idiot and they'd be eating their words if they knew one thing about you = you're a racist. Tea party = racist party. Ever smile when Al Gore makes an ass out of himself = racist. Ever tell someone to stick to debating the issues = racist. If you voted for any Republican in the last 30 years = yeah, you've got the hang of it.  Ever defended Rush Limbaugh's right to free speech = KKK member. I'm obviously a Super Racist for writing this and admitting that being grouped in with racists prompts me to do anything other than kiss the accuser's ass thoroughly and thank them for their wondrous, all knowing enlightenment of my character.  

aspergers2mom 5 pts

Elise http://asd2mom.spaces.live.com

Glad to see that I am not alone in my perceptions.

Mata H 5 pts

Do you ever read the posts about race and racism out here on BlogHer?

~~ Contributing Editor, Mata H. also blogs right along at Time's Fool ( http://timesfool.blogspot.com )