I Don't Get "Girls' Night."

Thanks for this article! I know it's rather old now, but it's great to read I'm not the only one that's not keen on the male/female separation. My partner and I have been together for 10 years and do everything together, now I know that's not the most normal but he's my best friend in the whole world and we love to spend time togehter. As such we always turn down the girls & boys nights - there's nothing I can't say in front of him and vice versa, and in all honesty whilst I do love my female friends I've never quite connected with them as well as men, probably as since I was 2 (now 32) my best friend has been a man. We also turn down the Hen and Stag do's, we might actually break our general rule on them and go if our friends didn't insist on doing a full on long weekends, often in foreign countries that cost a fortune! I might be the only one that feels like this but if I'm going to spend good money on a break away and some of my precious holiday entitlement I want the love of my life to be in bed next to me when I wake up! They used to take great offence at us turning them down but I think over the years they've accept us as we are and I love them all the more for it. At the end of the day, if they're your friends they'll accept you for the person you are and love you just the same, if they don't they're not worth it!!

Hi John,

Sorry for the slow response here!

I totally hear you and can imagine your situation. I also struggle because so often friends *want* to divide up and do gender specific things. I can totally understand why you'd feel resentful, particularly about being excluded by people you feel are your friends. I have a really difficult time when male friends exclude me, because there you were thinking you were just their friend, and then there's this other element you can't do anything about.

What I've done is refuse to go to too many women-only things, and to try to suggest/encourage/plan co-ed things. I mean, there's only so much you and your wife can do, but if it's really getting to be a lot of women-only things, perhaps the only next step is for her to skip some of the women-only things, and plan the occasional co-ed thing for the group. And to activity state why - that as a couple you prefer to do things together because it's more fun! :)

Good luck!

Liz Rizzo ( http://blogher.org/blog/liz-rizzo )

I blog at Everyday Goddess ( http://everydaygoddess.typepad.com/ ).

Sorry for the late comment. I actually just came across this blog while searching on 'girls night out' because I was curious to see how others felt about the matter. In my case - I've been married for 10 years (very happily). Both my wife and I have had a common group of friends for most of our adult lives. Some of these friends are married and some are single. (of course new friends come and go over time)

For many years now the girls have taken an annual girls trip one weekend per yer. This has become a tradition, one which my wife really enjoys (and I'm happy she does). However, recently - over the past 2 or 3 years - more and more "girls only" activities keep getting planned. Additional trips, girls-only birthday parties, girls-only vacations, girls-only christmas parties, ...etc. Most activities getting planned (by any women in the group) are now suggested as "girls-only".

This has recently begun to hurt my felings. This is because these women are my friends too. In some cases they were friends of mine before I met my wife. In others, they are people we've met together. The main point is it *isn't* a buch of friends my wife met in college and I have no history with. So the increasing exclusion is starting to make me resentful.

The truth is, my wife doens't really like it any better than I do - she actively tries to make these activities into things for our group of friends to do and not just the girls. Despite that fact it still seems to be on the rise and it makes me feel like women in our group are no longer really my friends.

Anyway - just another perspective.

John

So last Thursday my roommate had two female friends over for tacos, and then on Sunday I met with my women's directing group for a potluck. Her husband and sons added some testosterone, though. :) A lovely weekend, but I'm glad I had some men in the mix at other times.

Tanyetta - Thanks for popping by.

Julia - Why *are* some things so much easier in college? I do host co-ed things when I can, and I am thankful for the male friendships I've made out here.

Debra - Exactly. I would say that I have tried to cultivate my interests where men are there over more female-centric hobbies. Say, less knitting, more board gaming for example. Dancing is a good one, too. And I meet a ton of male friends in filmmaking, of course.

OmnibusDriver - Sounds awesome, and now I totally wish I was going to BlogHer early! I do love Chicago; I'm so glad we're going there again.

Vered - I do believe that that is true for some peeps. Maybe all the metro guys in L.A. make my world slightly different sometimes. :)

Bill - I hear you, but I think it does depend on the types of relationships we're talking about here. First off, co-ed groups of friends don't necessarily include dating couples - In my poker example, I wasn't dating any of the guys in the group. And in some groups, the coupling doesn't have as strong an effect as you're saying. But I agree, with some people, getting them away from their significant others does make a huge difference. I am all for friends-only sometimes, I just like it co-ed.

Mata - I hear you. I guess I am a bit more of a free-spirit when it comes to what I'm comfortable talking about and with who. I've been to a co-ed sex toy party, so at that point I guess the barriers are down! It's just a bit much out here with the women-only invites, and I find that really frustrating.

Alphanista - Hear, Hear! Although, if the guys are buying, then I'm buying round 2. I like to keep the treats going back and forth. :)

Minette - It's so interesting that you bring up different ways of speaking and relating in a group. I tend to be an aggressive speaker and sometimes will pinch myself to keep myself from interrupting or dominating a conversation. But I've also developed a habit of looking for someone who clearly has something to say but lacks that jump in skill/desire, and I will break into the conversation to pull them in by saying, "I want to hear what so-and-so wants to say!"

Awesome comments, everyone! Thanks for sharing!

Liz Rizzo ( http://blogher.org/blog/liz-rizzo )

I blog at Everyday Goddess ( http://everydaygoddess.typepad.com/ ).

I personally love girls' nights. In moderation. Specifically, once or twice a month with no more than 5 or 6 women sounds ideal. And one of the major reasons is not just because you're completely uncensored- but because you're given the chance to actually let words come out of your mouth. I think guys love to dominate conversations, and they love to be proven right, and to hear the sound of their voices especially in mixed company. And as women, generally speaking, we're so polite and accepting, that we let them talk, talk, talk.

So every once in a while, it's fun to indulge in a super girly side where you can speak/bitch/boast freely about your latest goals/blunders/dating moments. In my case, I don't know many guys (platonic friends or not) who will actually want to listen to every detail about my newest crafty entrepreneurial endeavours and especially about how the last guy I went out was so hot/chivalrous/funny etc. Don't get me wrong, I have plenty of male friends, and a few genuinely close, platonic ones that I can really confide in. But I believe every once in a while it's good to feel nurtured in just the presence of the fairer sex.

I don't think it has to be forced, if you're not in the mood, don't go. And if you don't feel a special affinity with the other women, why waste your time? I don't think it's necessary to be frivolous or intensely girly-like a spa treatment while sipping margaritas, just chilling in someone's living room catching up over a few glasses of wine can be just as fulfilling. As women, I think it's good to have sounding boards for advice and support, and a girls' night now and then just might provide that.

By the way, I'm single and my girls' nights are a mix of single/married and everything in between.

I think girls nights only should be limited.  It's probably best for women who are coupled up and need a break.  But for single women, why not get your single friends to invite at least a few guys on that girls only night?  I've done this and the men end up paying for drinks, food, and they are good backdrops to make us look good to other men instead of as a bunch of spinsters out on the prowl again.  It's fun and flirty.  Though most importantly I value men's opinions and think they can balance the energy among groups of women which can get a little intense.

Alphanista™-It's A Blog Dedicated to the Alpha Female Perspective

http://www.alphanista.com ( http://www.alphanista.com/ ).

Different configurations allow for different possibilities. I can only speak for my experience as a straight woman, but the conversation in mixed groups is not as earthy as conversations just among women. Plus, there is always the sexual dynamic at play in mixed straight groups. I would not be comfy discussing the squat position in a mixed group, particularly if part of the mix included couples. Maybe that makes me less of a free spirit, but so be it. Different groups for different folks.

~~ Contributing Editor, Mata H. also blogs right along at Time's Fool ( http://timesfool.blogspot.com )

Two of the reasons that guys have "boys' night out" is freedom of expression and the ability to trust everyone in the group.

Most of the time that a guy would bring a gal around, it's because he's dating her or in a relationship to her.  This means that out of respect to the guy that brought her, the rest of the guys would have to either curb their natural behavior in order to help him look good OR they'd have to take the chance that she would see how they act and potentially dime them out to girls they bring to co-ed events.  Obviously, neither one is good.

The only way a woman would be allowed to stay in a "guys only" group is if the guy that brought her had enough clout that he could vouch for her that she's cool and the fellaz could be themselves around her and not worry about her snitching.  Otherwise, she's got to go.  And if he can't stand to ditch her, HE has to go WITH her! Buh-Bye!!! :D  That's what he gets for not following the rules.

Also, I agree with some of the other comments that boys' or girls' night out is more important to people that are in relationships, because they spend so much time around their SOs.  They need opportunities to express themselves without worrying what someone else thinks about what they said or did.  For single guys, "boys' night out" just means whomever's in a relationship, ditch her for the night so we can go hang out like we used to and talk about things HONESTLY, instead of the muted version of you we get when your girl's around. 

~ Bill ( http://billcammack.com )
I blog at billcammack.com ( http://billcammack.com )

It's sometimes easier to discuss certain issues with women. It's a different dynamic when it's a mixed group. I regularly meet with the same group of women - sometimes just us and sometimes it includes the husbands, or the husbands and the kids. Conversation topics are very different when it's just the women and are usually more intimate and personal.

----

Yes, I'm a mommy blogger ( http://momgrind.com/ ).

I also write the UpToUs parenting blog ( http://blog.uptous.com/ ).

... and switch to "Therapy Night," which my friends and I hold every Tuesday night at a local watering hole.  You drink the truth serum.  You talk about whatever's on your mind.  You leave it on the bar when you walk out the door.

Male, female, straight, gay, single, divorced, married, twenties through sixties and a broad sprinkling of professions are covered.  We laugh, we cry, we bitch and we prop each other up.  Can't imagine better friends or more fun.

If you're ever in Chicago on a Tuesday, let me know.  You're definitely invited.

Most of my life I had at least as many guy friends as girl friends. And like Julia said, in my 20s and 30s "my tribe" was always co-ed.

Move forward to moving to Ca. as part of a couple. The spouse only has friends at work, none he socializes with. I only have gal pals. Finding guys to be friends is hard! Or impossible!

I miss my guy friends. I miss someone to invite over a Sunday with the promise of a home made meal. Someone to talk sports with, or to call on when I really want to see a game in person (the spouse not being the sports fan in this household). Someone to give me a different perspective.

For the first time in life, I've learned to really value my female friends and get-together. Never did much in the past. But since it seems to come at the very high cost of not having any guy friends? I'm quite sure it's worth it.

Debra
A Stitch In Time ( http://astitchintime.blogspot.com )
Weight for Deb ( http://weightfordeb.wordpress.com )

... I had a great group of (also single) friends that was co-ed.  I would not have changed the experience I had with that group for the world.  We met just about every week or two weeks to do something together -- of course, we lived in a college town, so there was a lot to do.

I think that having male friendships *does* help a person have a different perspective than just being surrounded by women all the time.  Among my married friends (as you said in your post) there is a sense that we all have a shared need to 'get away' from our spouses for a while.  Okay.  I get that. 

But...

When I think about really great times with friends, my mind always goes back to that experience from my twenties and that co-ed group of friends.  We still keep in touch and our families all visit.  Even my husband agrees it was a great time in our lives.

So, when your girlfriends ask you out for yet another "Girls Night Out" I think it's worth it to sometimes either ask if you can bring a (male) friend or two or a mutual friend or acquaintance or to just take a pass.  On the other hand, you could host a get-together that brings friends of all kinds together, too.  (My favorite is having a wine-tasting party.)  ;)

There is absolutely something to be gained by having male *and* female friendships.  So, follow your instincts and cast a broad net.

All the best,

Julia at Midwest Moms ( http://midwestmoms.blogspot.com )

Days like These

http://tanyetta.com

I never thought of it this way! 

Thanks - I learn so much from hanging out around here. And I know it's a comment for another post but I think it's too much work, too. ;-)

laurie

www.notjustaboutcancer.blogspot.com ( http://www.notjustaboutcancer.blogspot.com )

Hi Kathy, I can definitely see what you're saying for a group of women who regularly hang out in a mixed group that includes their partners. That makes sense.

Laurie, LOL - click the link! I wrote a whole post about it. ;) But basically it's woman on top, but feet flat on the floor and then she moves her hips up and down.

Liz Rizzo ( http://blogher.org/blog/liz-rizzo )

I blog at Everyday Goddess ( http://everydaygoddess.typepad.com/ ).

 What is the "squat position"?

Laurie

www.notjustaboutcancer.blogspot.com ( http://www.notjustaboutcancer.blogspot.com )

in a group of women than I am with men in terms of the way that I act, but I certainly value the time alone with my girlfriends and appreciate a girls night out! I love getting together with them over a bottle of wine when we can talk about everything and anything under the sun, things that we just wouldn't share in front of each other's husbands.  I think that we talk more freely and that we enjoy each other on a different level than when men are present. Of course we are all married and with our partners all of the time and always doing coed activities so maybe that is part of it. We need that 'downtime' together to decompress and open up. If we were single, perhaps we wouldn't need that time as much.

Kathy

Aniza Marketing ( http://www.anizamarketing.com )

Allbusiness:Working Mothers ( http://www.allbusiness.com/specialty-businesses/wo... )

Mama Marathoner ( http://www.mamamarathoner.com )