As I Get On A Plane, Clinton Supporters Mobilize (VIDEO)

Dot

Clinton cannot control the will of the people anymore than Kennedy can.

Morning coffee shop questions of the day were.

Is there any agenda historical or now that would keep Kennedy from passing a torch of power to a woman?

 Do you respect Kennedy's longevity or stumble over his life experiences of keeping women second class citizens despite the popular vote?

Is the party  myopic, mysogenistic practices the real culprit that loses the White House in 2008?

I was going to buzz you to see if you had any thoughts on this, am glad you just jumped in without the nudge.

:-)

~Denise
BlogHer Community Manager

Flamingo House Happenings ( http://www.flamingohouse.net/ )

 She is sincere. Very, very sincere. She wants and knows that the party needs to come together and what happened was obviously hard for her but she knows what is best for The Party. I'll be at a luncheon for her this week and will be able to speak to her personally then but I think that she is very sincere in her actions and intentions and only wants what is best for the country. 

Heather B.
Personal Blog: No Pasa Nada ( http://nopasanada.org )
BlogHer CE: Business, Career & Personal Finance ( http://blogher.org/topic/business-career-personal-... )

Dot

"There are lots of Clinton supporters who simply believe it was time for a woman candidate and they feel like misogyny played a huge role in why she did not get the nomination. For those women, that's enough of a reason NOT to vote for Senator Obama and Senator Biden."

Does anyone recall the short speech made in 1996 by Bella Asbug to the NOW convention in Las Vegas?

The gist of her comment was " I don't know what they are so afraid of, women do not have enough power yet to even begin to corrupt it"

Comments made here appear to  grant a woman Presidential  candidate so much more power than she actually has been granted  even by her party.

Let's face it folks, Clinton won the popular vote and has been bent over by her party.Women went to the bottom of the totem pole. How far down?

Women in both parties along with many men will support Clinton, but refuse to support Obama or Mc Cain. Historic choice is being made in the next couple of days.

Why is everyone yelling when Clinton's name is mentioned on the floor and so much silence as Pelosi names Obama?

Is that Clinton's fault or a mis step of the Democrats direction in this path?

 To tred on blame games  so early in the game is very telling about the lack of steam the great leaderhip of the Democrat party has.

 The spouting of a Mantra that John Mc Cain is wrong isn't even supported on the floor  as much as the roar when Cinton's name is mentioned.

I have never seen a convention with so many seated and sternly sitting with scowls and folded arms until Clinton's name is mentioned. Have you?

Who is out of touch?

Dot

The responses of the people in the  Convention crowd is subdued.

Nancy Pelosi could not muster the old Party feeling of a robust Convention floor with her speech.

The outcry of support only flows when Clinton's name is mentioned.

I am interested to see where blame for that will go next.

Me thinks that the outcry for Clinton might just be her own fault. She is the people's choice and popular. OH MY MY!!!

So....now what?

I didn't have time to read all the comments here - but I like Hillary.  But now, what's important is that we have some major changes from the past 7 years and Obama's the one to do it!  

I think it would have been cool if he would have picked Hillary as his VP too - but he had to pick someone who would increase his chances of winning the most.  I'm sure he had people analyzing the whole situation and they decided Biden would be best.  I am hoping though that Hillary will get some good position.   

my last post:

2 Reasons Why Women Should Vote for Obama ( http://www.ideasforwomen.com/news/change/2008/08/2... )

I would agree with that, personally. I am not planning on rejecting the next best candidate. I just don't believe Senator Obama is the next best candidate. If I ever believe that, he'll have my vote.

~Denise
BlogHer Community Manager

Flamingo House Happenings ( http://www.flamingohouse.net/ )

But no, that's not a valid reason in my book. To reject a candidate on his or her gender?

Whatever media bias there was (and there was pleeeenty as we all know) and whatever issues the American public still has with the notion of a woman in charge, well those are things we need to fix. But to reject the next best candidate, and pretty much jeopardize the country in the process? Well that's what my dad used to call cutting off your nose to spite your face. 

I so appreciate hearing your POV on this Denise. It's really helpful. I guess I just feel like McCain is such bad news economically, foreign policy-wise, and for the issues that matter to women and children, it's truly hard for me to wrap my head around how pretty much the lint in my dryer trap wouldn't make a better president.

Thanks for the friendly debate.  

Mom-101 ( http://mom-101.blogspot.com )
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Cool Mom Picks.com ( http://coolmompicks.com )

Did you see RE errr sorry nellenelle's reasons for being disappointed in Obama/Biden? She won't vote republican but she may decide to toss of her vote because she was disappointed that Obama did not select a woman as VP. That's a valid reason for not voting for the O/B ticket.

There are lots of Clinton supporters who simply believe it was time for a woman candidate and they feel like misogyny played a huge role in why she did not get the nomination. For those women, that's enough of a reason NOT to vote for Senator Obama and Senator Biden.

There are lots of Clinton supporters, like me, who don't believe that Senator Obama would be an ineffective president and we would rather have an effective Republican leader than an ineffective Democratic leader.

There are lots of Clinton supporters, like me, who are very conservative Democrats and so Senator McCain is not the monster candidate that some Democrats believe him to be.

Are those enough valid reasons? I'm sure there are more, those are just the reasons I've heard and understand. :-)

~Denise
BlogHer Community Manager

Flamingo House Happenings ( http://www.flamingohouse.net/ )

But to some of the points above, the idea that Obama is only worthy because he's a democrat (in other words, he's an unworthy candidate on the right ticket) is confusing to me. I've heard this pov before. But if you think about where he and Clinton stood on the issues, they were so so very close on so many things both philosophically and policy-wise--least of which is Supreme Court appointments!--that I never entirely understand how he can not be a good second choice to Clinton.

Or maybe I'm just a big ol' party sheep :) 

Mom-101 ( http://mom-101.blogspot.com )
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Cool Mom Picks.com ( http://coolmompicks.com )

...but if he told me over again I should be supporting Clinton, I would certainly listen and seriously consider.

Maybe that's what missing here...that I feel Clinton supporters haven't seriously considered voting Obama. The rhetoric has been from BEFORE she lost that they wouldn't be voting for Obama.

I heard very few Clinton supporters give reasoned arguments as to why they will not be voting Obama (you being one of the only ones speaking with solid reasons).

Politics & News Contributing Editor
Queen of Spain ( http://queenofspainblog.com/ )

I just feel that that is in fact her reality - the reality that's accumulated around her and with her participation to some extent.

My fallback position, which I happen to really believe, is that it's all Bill's fault - I mean that.

Jill
Writes Like She Talks ( http://www.writeslikeshetalks.com )

So there's the HRC issue - she's damned no matter what she does. You say you believe she's sincere but you think others don't perceive her as sincere.

She can't win, can she? :-)

~Denise
BlogHer Community Manager

Flamingo House Happenings ( http://www.flamingohouse.net/ )

Clinton's emails aren't vague. Some Clinton supporters may be suggesting that she's being vague because that's what they want or because it suits their agendas. I've not seen anything vague from Clinton herself.

I am a Clinton supporter. I still get her emails. I still follow what she is saying and what she is doing. Nothing vague from where I'm sitting.

I am a Clinton supporter who did not want her on the VP ticket. I am a Clinton supporter who is not encouraging her to run as an Independent, that's ridiculous.

I have no Clinton agenda, though if Senator Obama doesn't win this election, I would probably support another Clinton attempt in 2012 - I haven't bought the tshirt, though. :-) And no, I'm not considering a vote for McCain or not voting at all specifically for that reason.

I'm considering a vote for McCain or not voting at all because I can't vote for a Obama simply because he's a Democrat. And if I cast my vote for him, that would be the only reason to do so.

:-)

~Denise
BlogHer Community Manager

Flamingo House Happenings ( http://www.flamingohouse.net/ )

I'm on a mailing list from one of her hardcore hillraisers and this woman seems to be under the impression tha Clinton is still hoping for a nomination. That she has only suspended her campaign, not ended it. That she is secretly thanking delegates for their continued suppport and they will somehow be rewarded for tearing Obama down.

Now I don't know if this woman is delusional or there is something to it, but she seems to believe very strongly that her dissemination of every digusting, Karl Rove-orchestrated smear story about Obama to her email list is something she's doing "for Clinton." 

If this is the case, then not only am I hearing a half-hearted support and endorsement of the presumptive nominee from Clinton camp, but her supporters are hearing it as well.  

I think it has less to do with being sheep, than hearing a pov from someone you really respect. I don't know about you, but that's why I tend to take friends into the dressing room with me and ask whether my butt loks big. 

Mom-101 ( http://mom-101.blogspot.com )
( http://coolmompicks.com )

Cool Mom Picks.com ( http://coolmompicks.com )

Dot.

Once again Well Stated Denise.

Obama and Mc Cain are the only two driving voters to Clinton.

Clinton has no control over the will of the people, just as Obama and Mc Cain, (who  do not attract  unswerving voters well).

 It might be wise for the Party to get behind thIs huge and growing  "Clinton Flock " that  they named  these voters, and not try to shove a candidate that is clearly displaying as a 'quickly drying up fish floundering out of water ".

What is the overall gain if a candidate is  without any mounting  following, with little but blame for others about that fact?.

To put a Dem in the WHITE HOUSE might be as simple as a change in the plan .

The leadership may want to remember, that it is "the other side" that each Party seeks to attract to elevate enmasse  votes over the other.

 Within the Party which candidate can not only hold support but gather more?

If the Democrats vote Clinton, suddenly they are supporting a winner to draw others, if they support Obama they are defending a loss by curent poll standards, so how can that already tested name attract any new sector?

Naming it sheep or swift boat and wha wha wha all the way out of the White House isn't any real answer.

Which really, is odd. I was all but certain that you'd have to be a registered member of BlogHer for at least 64 minutes to have anything worthwhile to say.

Go figure!

Mom-101 ( http://mom-101.blogspot.com )
( http://coolmompicks.com )

Cool Mom Picks.com ( http://coolmompicks.com )

I think she has a very very VERY difficult time expressing herself in a way that people read as sincere - just think about how when she cried or teared up in NH - and I thought that was 1000% real - people STILL debated whether it was calculated.  I think she carries that baggage - for a variety of reasons.

I believe she can be sincere - is sincere even now - but I think it's almost impossible to read it.

Jill
Writes Like She Talks ( http://www.writeslikeshetalks.com )

So you doubt her sincerity when she encourages people to support Senator Obama?

~Denise
BlogHer Community Manager

Flamingo House Happenings ( http://www.flamingohouse.net/ )

Dot

It isn't difficult to simply listen on the streets and in blogs to hear the questions asked.

Review the questions and simply answer them for yourself.

Would anyone in WWII have voted for a President with a Japanese name?

Why should we expect any less from Americans today?

 Will Americans vote for a candidate who comes so close to a fracture in the Constitution, by being born in Panama?

Will Americans be obstinate and demand their vote be counted and not be erased by any super power over the will of the people?

Here is another one I hear a lot.

Is it true that Clinton and Joe Liberman may arrive on the Independent Party ticket and take the words "change in Washington " to a new meaning and level  by shutting out Obama and Mc Cain?

My question is:

What happens to the dems idea of a win, if the Hillary supporters continue to sign on as Independents or would rather join with disgrundled  Republicans to write in Clinton? 

Erin - do you get a sense that the folks who continue to support Hillary  - who will vote for her even now - do you think that people who are willing to do that actually prefer divisiveness?  This was just occuring to me.

Obama does not engender divisiveness, even tho it takes two to be divisive.  Same with Biden - both can be sharp critics, but they don't go out there looking for ways to divide.

And maybe even to the extent that Bush was such a poseur with his I'm a uniter not a divider charade that people just don't want to believe it.

I guess I keep going back to a bit of what Denise says - we're adults, not sheep - no matter how genuines Clinton might seem - if that's even possible for her - there are supporters who won't follow her.  Can we even demand that of them?

Oh well.

Thanks for your work, Erin - it must be lunacy there!!

Jill
Writes Like She Talks ( http://www.writeslikeshetalks.com )

In fact, I'd really like to know WHY her supporters are NOT doing what she asks of them....

Speaking for myself, though I've said it many times. I did not support Clinton blindly. I would not EVER do what she said simply because she said to do it. I would hope that you would not follow Senator Obama's lead if he was leading you in a direction that you didn't believe was right.

You wouldn't, would you? :-)

~Denise
BlogHer Community Manager

Flamingo House Happenings ( http://www.flamingohouse.net/ )

First of all, I get the feeling the Senator from NYC is not fully supporting this candidate for President and it trickles down to her supporters. I guess it's all in my head that I just don't FEEL THE LOVE?

Doesn't matter. You guys are right. Hillary Clinton can go through the motions, or passionately support this candidate and it does fall to the candidate to unite the party.

Do I think Senator Clinton could be a bit more...um...genuine? Yup. But hey, maybe I'm crazy.

I'm THRILLED to see her denounce the McCain ad, and I hope her supporters denounce it too.

In fact, I'd really like to know WHY her supporters are NOT doing what she asks of them....

And as for my role here in Denver, you'll get both interviews, information, and opinion.

Politics & News Contributing Editor
Queen of Spain ( http://queenofspainblog.com/ )

Jill,

Really good point.  The Blue Dog Dems vs the Yellow Dog Dems.  

By Jane

http://byjane.blogspot.com

http://midlifebloggers.com 

Right on, Catherine!

By Jane

http://byjane.blogspot.com

http://midlifebloggers.com 

Right on, Catherine!

By Jane

http://byjane.blogspot.com

http://midlifebloggers.com 

What are you talking about? 

 Who is asking these types of questions?

As an American you need to know that we are all immigrants unless you are Native American.   Again WHAT?

Michelle

Um, yeah...thanks for the welcome. Can't imagine why I didn't register earlier when I'd be guaranteed such a warm reception...

I joined now because Erin asked me too. Earlier today, she twittered a message ( http://twitter.com/QueenofSpain/statuses/898319218 ) that included a link to this post and, after watching the video, I responded back ( http://twitter.com/natthedem/statuses/898329203 ) with a link to the ABCNews story about the possibility of there not being a roll call vote. She was en route to Denver, but asked (via direct message) that I post it in the comments here. I did so, at my earliest convenience. 

My intentions (and my gender for that matter--nat in natthedem is short for Natalie) are not nearly as dubious as you suggest. 

I just wish someone in the press, or here, or anywhere...would just admit that if Obama loses to McCain, it won't be because Hillary didn't "unite" the party...It will be because Obama didn't.  

Contributing Editor Catherine Morgan
at catherine-morgan.com ( http://catherine-morgan.com/ ), The Political Voices of Women ( http://politicsanew.com/ ), Care2 Election ( http://www.care2.com/politics/features/ )

This one isn't from me: ( http://www.ohiodailyblog.com/content/voting-hillar... )

I spoke to Clinton delegates Lana Moresky and
Janet Carson a few hours ago about a rumor I'd heard that there have
been discussions about doing a voice vote rather than a paper ballot
vote for the nomination. They both had been to a Whips meeting and
reported that delegates will indicate their votes by signing a written
form, which will be available starting at breakfast on Wednesday.
However, delegates will be able to change their vote up to the point
where they are cast. They also said that Hillary Clinton will speak to
her delegates and is expected to release them and tell them to "vote
their conscience."

Janet Carson said that she would be casting her vote for Clinton,
but she is telling everyone she talks to vote their conscience and do
whatever they feel is right.

 I've met Lana and she is as ebullient as you would ever want a supporter to be. I met her at a fundraiser for Mary Landrieu of Louisiana who is going to have a tough Senate battle. Lana played a big role up here in NE Ohio (and around the state I imagine too) for Clinton and I remember having a long phoen call with her.

I don't know Janet Carson.

Would love to be able to get this kind of info from others on the ground.

FYI for those who might not remember, Clinton won Ohio pretty big.

Jill
Writes Like She Talks ( http://www.writeslikeshetalks.com )

Which we haven't talked about much: how far to the center or right the entire Democratic Party, if you can call anything that, has moved.  The Clintons were a big part of that - they aren't deemed progressive in the way other legislators are and for sure the way many in the netroots think of the distinction between progressive, liberal and moderate.

So - I would ask - to what extent to the voters who continue to hold out as far as switching to Obama represent that group that kind of came of age politically in the 1990s, with the Clintons, who were never particularly liberal to begin with?  And to what extent is Obama really quite left of all that? 

Think about it - we as a country were coming off of 8 years of Reagan and then four of Bush Sr.  That's a very moderate, centrist to right of center agenda that was being followed - certainly compared to what we've had with the current Bush.  

And those folks who were enamored and reaching maturity as political junkies at that time - let's say they were the ones with the families and the health insurance and college education and job woes - now, here they are nearing the brink of what should ahve been retirement and stability, and they don't have that - but they had it good under Clinton.

Gritting teeth - it must really suck for them.

ON THE OTHER HAND - I can't see how they could decide that voting for McCain would be better than OBama EXCEPT that McCain WAS seen as a moderate maverick in 2000, when Bill Clinton was heading out.

So - with this context - perhaps that's a part of what keeps people grasping and also what contributes to that group that's grasping as being much more int he middle and further from Obama in the first place.

Jill
Writes Like She Talks ( http://www.writeslikeshetalks.com )

Thanks for the @AlbertMaruggi link...and for welcoming Nat the Dem, which of course I should have done as well.

By Jane

http://byjane.blogspot.com

http://midlifebloggers.com 

I just found this link from the Asian Pacific Americans blog:

Fair & Balanced? Muddled & Lapsed? ( http://www.aaa-fund.com/?p=729 )

"George Mason University’s Center for Media and Public Affairs documented in its study of six weeks of TV news reports this summer that Obama’s coverage was 28 percent positive, 72 percent negative. (For McCain, the split was 43/57.)..."

Lisa Stone
BlogHer Co-founder ( http://blogher.org/member/lisa-stone )
Surfette ( http://surfette.typepad.com )

I've asked @marianiles and @queenofspain to look into the real feeling among the delegates versus the MSM or Clinton campaign-oriented feedback.

@AlbertMaruggi just Twittered on @BlogHer: "Newshour panel on Clinton healing was not very convincing, especially Clinton campaign manager." Here's the link:

http://twitter.com/AlbertMaruggi/statuses/89873535...

I'm looking for the Newshour link but haven't yet found it...

Lisa Stone
BlogHer Co-founder ( http://blogher.org/member/lisa-stone )
Surfette ( http://surfette.typepad.com )

I know who the women in Columbus, Ohio are who started the whole Clinton Supporters Count Too thing (or it might have been Hillary Supporters Count Too).

But honestly, from what I've seen, the blogs of all places have done a good job of embracing the anger.

I'm torn - I mean - we all believe in women not being shutdown. I believe in that.  I supported not shutting down people who were beside themselves in June.

But like I wrote - it's enough now. We are adults - who have a vote - that should not be wasted.  I guess I'm just pragmatic - a reason why I like the Biden pick so much, I suppose.

But I do want people to read some genuine concern about all this which is being expressed by a blogger I respect enormously - Lisa Renee Ward of a Toledo, Ohio blog, Glass City Jungle ( http://glasscityjungle.com/wordpress ).  She wrote in this thread at my blog ( http://www.writeslikeshetalks.com/2008/08/24/the-w... ) and I trust her 100%.

What might you ask her, say to her? Maybe there isn't anything that can be said, other than, we each get to do what we want with our vote? I honestly do not know.

Jill
Writes Like She Talks ( http://www.writeslikeshetalks.com )

All newcomers welcome!

Lisa Stone
BlogHer Co-founder ( http://blogher.org/member/lisa-stone )
Surfette ( http://surfette.typepad.com )

How interesting:  Nat the Dem has been a member of BlogHer for 59 minutes.  How did he find us?  Why join now?  

By Jane

http://byjane.blogspot.com

http://midlifebloggers.com 

Jill,

It occurs to me that whoever is creating this devisiveness among female Democrats is really effecting an incredible SwiftBoat maneuver.   So now I'm questioning who is driving this story.  Is it the media?  Is it the GOP?  Is it the SwiftBoat crowd?  Who has the most to gain by making this The Story of the election?  I'm suspicious--this is too Rovian...

By Jane

http://byjane.blogspot.com

http://midlifebloggers.com 

It always astounds me to hear "informed" and/or "undecided" Democratic voters talk about Obama not having convinced them--convinced them of what, I wonder? If through 54 primaries and caucuses and 20+ debates and/forums, you don't know where Obama stands on the issues of importance to women and our families, then I'd humbly suggest that maybe that says more about you than it does Obama. If you've managed to go through the last eight years on Republican mismanagement and abuse and aren't firmly convinced that another four years of that will horribly impact our future and our children's futures, then...well, I don't even know what to tell you.

Honestly, I don't think Clinton's done enough. Last week, the NY Times had a story ( http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/22/us/politics/22cl... ) that quoted Hillary Clinton supporters in Florida, saying she was being too tepid in her support of Obama. I agree with Erin that I'd like to see Clinton forcefully reject these "protests" and say explicitly that a vote for McCain is a vote against her, a vote against the Clinton legacy and a vote that endangers the future of our families. It's good to see her out there stumping for Obama, but the reality is that she hasn't been nearly as aggressive in attacking McCain as she was in attacking Obama. She (and her husband) can change that starting this week....and some of her early statements are a good start.

That said, I think the number of overzealous Clinton supporters are far fewer in numbers than the media hype suggests--one only needs to reflect on the PUMA convention from a few weeks back to see that. Unfortunately, one of the unintended consequences of this fervor of Clinton enthusiasts may be that the roll call vote doesn't happen--or happens in an abbreviated form--at the request of the Clinton campaign ( http://tinyurl.com/5ldntj ).

Fool around with this shit if we want to and we will all be under 4 more years of this mess.  Remember The Late Great Gov Ann Richards said She may have to "take in wash' under this republican administration...she was meaning Bush..the Father...LOL!

Our eyes have to be on the prize...Dems in the White House.  This playground shit is at best annoying and DISTRACTING.  Especially because the passionate ignorance is consuming.

HC talking to everyone but her die-hard supporters and is hedging her bets and manipulative.  She knows full well the level of passion that exists.  Integrity would put the flames out...not fan them in hopes of forcing so unforeseen and so called unexpected outcome.

EYES ON THE PRIZE!

 Love,

Babz

Dot

Questions are a good thing.

 They are much better when simple answers emerge.

Here are a list I hear repeated.

 Would anyone in WWII have voted for a President with a Japanese name?

Why should we expect any less from Americans today?

 Will Americans vote for a candidate who comes so close to a fracture in the Constitution, by being born in Panama?

Will Americans be obstinate and demand their vote be counted and not be erased by any super power over the will of the people?

Dot

Well stated.

 So many from both party factions have decided already to write in  "Hillary Clinton "on the ballot.

 In Arizona ,for example, these " Hillary" votes  will be counted if Clinton submits her name . I think she should since there will be so many voting "write in" this election.

It's totally pushme-pullyou IMO.  The catch is the spin on silence - if you stay silent, are you endorsing it or doing what we teach our kids with bullies (ignore them and they stop); if you attack it, are you showing backbone or fueling the fire?

The amount of press the most vocal groups are being given seems disproportionate to the impact they're likely to have - and that in and of itself might be gratifying and something they've desired.  Really - this is no different than on a smaller microcosmic level in our own lives.  We get disappointed - what do we do - what are our instincts? But in our own lives, what do we think about ourselves and others when we hold grudges - when it impacts our daily functioning?We say it's not healthy and I would suggest that in fact this focus on this group is not healthy - for those who hold it or for the party or the country.

Then again - I could be completely wrong. :)  Maybe this tactic will prove to pull women through somehow in the longterm - but I don't really see that. 

And, more personally, how do any of us feel when we are so mad for so long - I can't speak for anyone else, but I almost always gravitate toward ways of expressing my anger or frustration that is most likely to resolve those feelings for as permanently as I can - you know what I mean?  At my age, I only can afford so many long-term grudges. 

EDIT: OK lol self-editing here - this sounds really harsh doesn't it?!

Wow. I don't really MEAN to sound so harsh but I think I obviously am at the ready to move on stage - when others haven't. And I'm having a very hard time understanding why two plus months of being upset isn't enough lol - I know - that really doesn't sound very empathetic - but time doesn't wait for anyone - and I cannot believe we'd let this election go to John McCain because of grudges - it seems so so out of sync with what a vote for Hillary would mean if she were on the ticket - but she isn't.

Oh well.  I am sorry if my reaching this point doesn't make me sound very tolerant now. I guess Ihave to realize that, well, maybe I'm not. :(

Jill
Writes Like She Talks ( http://www.writeslikeshetalks.com )

How much of this is real and how much is the press, including the blogging press, fomenting a good story because--it's a good story.  I watched CNN for a while last night and after the news clip about Clinton urging her supporters to switch on the first ballot, the talking heads all did a "yeah, but will her supporters do it...isn't there that one woman someone found who vowed to chain herself to her Hillary for President sign, yada yada yada..."  Even our beloved Erin is putting her agenda out there front and center--"me, me, I'm the one who said last March that I was pulling my support for Hillary because she was devisive.  And look, I'm probably right."  Political reporting--maybe all reporting--is one of those places where if you say it's so often enough, it's becomes so.  And I know I'll probably get blasted for this (Grace D, where are you?), but I just want to say this to Erin:  report, don't opine. 

I'm one of those lifelong Dems who still doesn't know who she'll vote for--and it's not because I'm loyal to Clinton.  That story line is so denigrating to women--surprise! surprise!  We can't think clearly; we vote with our emotions. 

This contest is  neck and neck not because of the Dems or the supporters but because Obama is losing followers because he's so damned vague!  Is he capable of anything more than fancy talk?  I hope so.

By Jane

http://byjane.blogspot.com

http://midlifebloggers.com 

...a long press release ( http://www.taylormarsh.com/archives_view.php?id=28... ) about how Sen. Clinton has said she does not approve the McCain ad -- "My name is Hillary Clinton and I did not approve this message." Marsh also quotes The HuffPo story's ( http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/25/hillary-c... ) widely-circulated quote by Clinton, "There is no doubt in anyone's mind that this is Barack Obama's convention."

I wonder -- is there anything Michelle Obama or Teddy Kennedy could say tonight that would change the minds of some Sen. Clinton supporters? Or is this a mainstream media-driven party rift that doesn't live in voters' hearts? And how can we tell?

Lisa Stone
BlogHer Co-founder ( http://blogher.org/member/lisa-stone )
Surfette ( http://surfette.typepad.com )

And you can bet the media is loving this!

Contributing Editor Catherine Morgan
at catherine-morgan.com ( http://catherine-morgan.com/ ), The Political Voices of Women ( http://politicsanew.com/ ), Care2 Election ( http://www.care2.com/politics/features/ )

Thank you.

Jill
Writes Like She Talks ( http://www.writeslikeshetalks.com )

Denise as one of those very pro Obama folks I have to say that I will not blame Clinton if Obama loses in November. I just think we are running this double standard of having her look like she is to be afforded some special treatment because she is a woman. I take great offense to that. I was not a Hillary supporter and did feel a little guilty for it. As my bias was and still is Bill. But that is a story for another day. Look, we say we want a seat at the table but the pouting a foot stomping would not be accepted from a male canidate and it should not be accepted from her. Either you want equal treatment or you don't. It can't be both. Look, she evokes very strong feelings in some and my irritation comes because we cannot aford this now. As a single mom making a decent income I have had to limit my kids' activities because I just cannot afford what I could a few years ago. We have got to get serious about this. I get a headache just thinking about my heating and gas bills for the winter. I am thinking even the $2 movie will soon be a luxry I cannot afford. So I am a little rabid becase now this affects my kids and my neices and nephews. The people that get me more than just a little bent out of shape. I cannot afford McCain can you? If you can then vote independent or stay home but for those like me, if you are not working with me then aren't you working against me? Or did I miss something.

Michelle

I do indeed think Hillary could do more to shut down the noise.  But I alo think she has to allow those that followed her and supported her have closure.  We are Americans and we are nothing if not dilligent in our freedoms of expression on all levels.  HC is not breaking any rules and I do not think she ought to go and sit and be quiet.  But I think she could be more convincing in a unifying party and I think fmer President Clinton ought to chill-lax  a bit too.

I think Biden is a good choice.  I think HC has way too much baggage. I think The Clinton time was wonderful, but it had its drama and that's old news that would become new NEWS!

I don't care what anybody says we don't want women being tough...that Bitch Facotr is real and haunting and often UNTRUE.   Condelezza Rice is tough...but she is ALWAYS in a skirt or dress.  Because that is a psychological game.  HC is in pants  and people percieve that as overly aggressive.  I don't aggree with that shit...but it plays out that way.

I liked HC.  But now she has to step her ass aside and let the goal of getting the DEMS in office be the prevailing goal.

 Love,

Babz

If this isn't about loving Hillary then what? Why is it important for you to take this stand if it isn't about her. I have been wondering this for months now. I have gotten the argument from my friends about standing up for women. Well if that is the case then we should really be trying to elect Senator Obama. I know we want to be heard but you voted and made your choice known. Isn't it time to face that the ship has passed and you are now just being bad sports? What will you accomplish by doing this besides giving the GOP material for new ads and stoking bad feelings.

It would bother the hell out of me if my daughter behaved this way. I tell her What my Grandma passed on to me if you want respect show some. If you act a fool nobody hears you even if you are right. Grace and class are the things people take notice of. As an African American woman I know what its like for people to question whether you belong or if you are enough like them. I don't yell and scream about it because in the grand scheme of things who cares? There are people who never even got the chance to have those questions asked of them. It is not about me but about the task at hand.

To the question of what else Hillary should be doing, have you seen Mitt Romney and Mike Huckabee and even Rudi lately? They are all making news rounds supporting McCain. Why isn't she drawing clear lines in the sand about her positions vs John McCain's. Where is her ad in support of the Democratic ticket since I have seen the ones shooting it down. Again, if not Hillary then What?

Michelle