While I wasn't thrilled about Biden, and while it would be nice to see a little more in terms of women in politics, now is not the time. The Democrats have a history of imploding due to this sort of behavior. It's the Dems' to lose this election, and things are in a fair way to achieve that end.

As much as I dislike the GOP, the Dems could take a lesson from them in terms of coming together, swallowing the bad taste, and doing what's best for the party. Especially since what's best for the party would, ultimately, help the country a lot more than imploding and giving it over to McCain.

YieldingWealth.com

This Time, It's Personal

What?

I'm sorry but anyone involved in that has just lost all of my respect and sympathy. 

I think it's a wee bit insulting that you're suggesting Clinton supporters are taking this stand because "we love Hillary". Could it be that some of us are taking this stand because it is important to do so?

And, I would really like to know what it is you think Senator Clinton should be doing, to bring "unity", that she hasn't already done. When I talk to Obama supporters they talk about how he's "bringing people together"... is he?

Speaking for myself and only myself, it isn't Clinton who needs to do anything differently. There isn't anything that she can do to convince me to give my vote to Senator Obama. Senator Obama and Senator Biden need to convince me, and so far - they haven't.

I don't follow anyone blindly, not even Clinton. :-)

~Denise
BlogHer Community Manager

Flamingo House Happenings

If this isn't about loving Hillary then what? Why is it important for you to take this stand if it isn't about her. I have been wondering this for months now. I have gotten the argument from my friends about standing up for women. Well if that is the case then we should really be trying to elect Senator Obama. I know we want to be heard but you voted and made your choice known. Isn't it time to face that the ship has passed and you are now just being bad sports? What will you accomplish by doing this besides giving the GOP material for new ads and stoking bad feelings.

It would bother the hell out of me if my daughter behaved this way. I tell her What my Grandma passed on to me if you want respect show some. If you act a fool nobody hears you even if you are right. Grace and class are the things people take notice of. As an African American woman I know what its like for people to question whether you belong or if you are enough like them. I don't yell and scream about it because in the grand scheme of things who cares? There are people who never even got the chance to have those questions asked of them. It is not about me but about the task at hand.

To the question of what else Hillary should be doing, have you seen Mitt Romney and Mike Huckabee and even Rudi lately? They are all making news rounds supporting McCain. Why isn't she drawing clear lines in the sand about her positions vs John McCain's. Where is her ad in support of the Democratic ticket since I have seen the ones shooting it down. Again, if not Hillary then What?

Michelle

I do indeed think Hillary could do more to shut down the noise.  But I alo think she has to allow those that followed her and supported her have closure.  We are Americans and we are nothing if not dilligent in our freedoms of expression on all levels.  HC is not breaking any rules and I do not think she ought to go and sit and be quiet.  But I think she could be more convincing in a unifying party and I think fmer President Clinton ought to chill-lax  a bit too.

I think Biden is a good choice.  I think HC has way too much baggage. I think The Clinton time was wonderful, but it had its drama and that's old news that would become new NEWS!

I don't care what anybody says we don't want women being tough...that Bitch Facotr is real and haunting and often UNTRUE.   Condelezza Rice is tough...but she is ALWAYS in a skirt or dress.  Because that is a psychological game.  HC is in pants  and people percieve that as overly aggressive.  I don't aggree with that shit...but it plays out that way.

I liked HC.  But now she has to step her ass aside and let the goal of getting the DEMS in office be the prevailing goal.

 Love,

Babz

Denise as one of those very pro Obama folks I have to say that I will not blame Clinton if Obama loses in November. I just think we are running this double standard of having her look like she is to be afforded some special treatment because she is a woman. I take great offense to that. I was not a Hillary supporter and did feel a little guilty for it. As my bias was and still is Bill. But that is a story for another day. Look, we say we want a seat at the table but the pouting a foot stomping would not be accepted from a male canidate and it should not be accepted from her. Either you want equal treatment or you don't. It can't be both. Look, she evokes very strong feelings in some and my irritation comes because we cannot aford this now. As a single mom making a decent income I have had to limit my kids' activities because I just cannot afford what I could a few years ago. We have got to get serious about this. I get a headache just thinking about my heating and gas bills for the winter. I am thinking even the $2 movie will soon be a luxry I cannot afford. So I am a little rabid becase now this affects my kids and my neices and nephews. The people that get me more than just a little bent out of shape. I cannot afford McCain can you? If you can then vote independent or stay home but for those like me, if you are not working with me then aren't you working against me? Or did I miss something.

Michelle

Are we "counting our chickens before they hatch," Making problems that might not exist after this convention is done.  This will be the first time Ms. Clintion will have a large platform to rally her side of the party and I am willing to give her the benefit.  Ultimatly it would be far more of a crime to stick Hiliary in a corner and pretend her political voice doesn't matter come Nov..

~Susan                                                                                                                   

http://lilmomthatcould.com/

...a long press release about how Sen. Clinton has said she does not approve the McCain ad -- "My name is Hillary Clinton and I did not approve this message." Marsh also quotes The HuffPo story's widely-circulated quote by Clinton, "There is no doubt in anyone's mind that this is Barack Obama's convention."

I wonder -- is there anything Michelle Obama or Teddy Kennedy could say tonight that would change the minds of some Sen. Clinton supporters? Or is this a mainstream media-driven party rift that doesn't live in voters' hearts? And how can we tell?

Lisa Stone
BlogHer Co-founder
Surfette

How much of this is real and how much is the press, including the blogging press, fomenting a good story because--it's a good story.  I watched CNN for a while last night and after the news clip about Clinton urging her supporters to switch on the first ballot, the talking heads all did a "yeah, but will her supporters do it...isn't there that one woman someone found who vowed to chain herself to her Hillary for President sign, yada yada yada..."  Even our beloved Erin is putting her agenda out there front and center--"me, me, I'm the one who said last March that I was pulling my support for Hillary because she was devisive.  And look, I'm probably right."  Political reporting--maybe all reporting--is one of those places where if you say it's so often enough, it's becomes so.  And I know I'll probably get blasted for this (Grace D, where are you?), but I just want to say this to Erin:  report, don't opine. 

I'm one of those lifelong Dems who still doesn't know who she'll vote for--and it's not because I'm loyal to Clinton.  That story line is so denigrating to women--surprise! surprise!  We can't think clearly; we vote with our emotions. 

This contest is  neck and neck not because of the Dems or the supporters but because Obama is losing followers because he's so damned vague!  Is he capable of anything more than fancy talk?  I hope so.

By Jane

http://byjane.blogspot.com

http://midlifebloggers.com 

Fool around with this shit if we want to and we will all be under 4 more years of this mess.  Remember The Late Great Gov Ann Richards said She may have to "take in wash' under this republican administration...she was meaning Bush..the Father...LOL!

Our eyes have to be on the prize...Dems in the White House.  This playground shit is at best annoying and DISTRACTING.  Especially because the passionate ignorance is consuming.

HC talking to everyone but her die-hard supporters and is hedging her bets and manipulative.  She knows full well the level of passion that exists.  Integrity would put the flames out...not fan them in hopes of forcing so unforeseen and so called unexpected outcome.

EYES ON THE PRIZE!

 Love,

Babz

It always astounds me to hear "informed" and/or "undecided" Democratic voters talk about Obama not having convinced them--convinced them of what, I wonder? If through 54 primaries and caucuses and 20+ debates and/forums, you don't know where Obama stands on the issues of importance to women and our families, then I'd humbly suggest that maybe that says more about you than it does Obama. If you've managed to go through the last eight years on Republican mismanagement and abuse and aren't firmly convinced that another four years of that will horribly impact our future and our children's futures, then...well, I don't even know what to tell you.

Honestly, I don't think Clinton's done enough. Last week, the NY Times had a story that quoted Hillary Clinton supporters in Florida, saying she was being too tepid in her support of Obama. I agree with Erin that I'd like to see Clinton forcefully reject these "protests" and say explicitly that a vote for McCain is a vote against her, a vote against the Clinton legacy and a vote that endangers the future of our families. It's good to see her out there stumping for Obama, but the reality is that she hasn't been nearly as aggressive in attacking McCain as she was in attacking Obama. She (and her husband) can change that starting this week....and some of her early statements are a good start.

That said, I think the number of overzealous Clinton supporters are far fewer in numbers than the media hype suggests--one only needs to reflect on the PUMA convention from a few weeks back to see that. Unfortunately, one of the unintended consequences of this fervor of Clinton enthusiasts may be that the roll call vote doesn't happen--or happens in an abbreviated form--at the request of the Clinton campaign.

Jill,

It occurs to me that whoever is creating this devisiveness among female Democrats is really effecting an incredible SwiftBoat maneuver.   So now I'm questioning who is driving this story.  Is it the media?  Is it the GOP?  Is it the SwiftBoat crowd?  Who has the most to gain by making this The Story of the election?  I'm suspicious--this is too Rovian...

By Jane

http://byjane.blogspot.com

http://midlifebloggers.com 

I just found this link from the Asian Pacific Americans blog:

Fair & Balanced? Muddled & Lapsed?

"George Mason University’s Center for Media and Public Affairs documented in its study of six weeks of TV news reports this summer that Obama’s coverage was 28 percent positive, 72 percent negative. (For McCain, the split was 43/57.)..."

Lisa Stone
BlogHer Co-founder
Surfette

Which we haven't talked about much: how far to the center or right the entire Democratic Party, if you can call anything that, has moved.  The Clintons were a big part of that - they aren't deemed progressive in the way other legislators are and for sure the way many in the netroots think of the distinction between progressive, liberal and moderate.

So - I would ask - to what extent to the voters who continue to hold out as far as switching to Obama represent that group that kind of came of age politically in the 1990s, with the Clintons, who were never particularly liberal to begin with?  And to what extent is Obama really quite left of all that? 

Think about it - we as a country were coming off of 8 years of Reagan and then four of Bush Sr.  That's a very moderate, centrist to right of center agenda that was being followed - certainly compared to what we've had with the current Bush.  

And those folks who were enamored and reaching maturity as political junkies at that time - let's say they were the ones with the families and the health insurance and college education and job woes - now, here they are nearing the brink of what should ahve been retirement and stability, and they don't have that - but they had it good under Clinton.

Gritting teeth - it must really suck for them.

ON THE OTHER HAND - I can't see how they could decide that voting for McCain would be better than OBama EXCEPT that McCain WAS seen as a moderate maverick in 2000, when Bill Clinton was heading out.

So - with this context - perhaps that's a part of what keeps people grasping and also what contributes to that group that's grasping as being much more int he middle and further from Obama in the first place.

Jill
Writes Like She Talks