I’m Done with Online Dating… Maybe

But I'd definitely point out that both men and women suffer from the candy shop syndrome! :)

Liz Rizzo ( http://blogher.org/blog/liz-rizzo )

I blog at Everyday Goddess ( http://everydaygoddess.typepad.com/ ).

Let me share my 2 to 75 cents.  I met the perfect man, on paper, on match.com.  The height, age, marital status, religion, parents, education, weight.  All were perfect, on paper.  In real life, he was selfish, immature and a bad, bad lover.  Then I met a man who couldn't write one sentence.  He was wrong in every way a woman measures men, except that he was a genetic male.  Pkin is kind but not a wuss, intelligent enough to have opinions without being opinionated, and a great, enthusiastic lover (when I know you better, I'll share more.)  I married Mr Wrong seven years ago.  He's sitting in the other room, online, reading about the end of the modern world.  I'm glad I met him in front of the California Pizza Kitchen and I'm glad we didn't kiss at our first meeting.  It made it special and that's why we're still going strong.

Love you Pkin! 

OK, my two cents is open your mind but not your heart, until the person deserves it.  It takes time and that's the one thing we don't have enough of but we can't waste any either.

Just Sue

www.sueworks.com ( http://www.sueworks.com/ )

That’s EXACTLY it!!  So well put.  I
guess that’s true, you can date online, but just (sadly), you do have to
go into it with the lowest of expectations and definitely some armor.  L.L.

Hmmm, bad move on his part, buying his coffee before you got there to get out of buying you yours.  Well, on with the weeding out... L.L.

What a stroy!!  What a date!!  I really am surprised at some of the things that I see as common sense, have to be explained to men!  Like having to explain that saying the 'model pretty' line is indeed, A DEAL BREAKER!!!!L.L.

I hate when that happens, the ‘gloss over’
because the attraction and the feelings are so strong on our side (the
women’s).  Good!  He doesn’t deserve to have you and you don’t
deserve that kind of treatment!   And
its true, it is a learning experience. 
With each one that disappoints, we’re close to our Prince!!  That’s what I have to keep reminding myself
of though, and that’s not an easy thing to remember when you’re crying and trying
to figure out why ‘it’ didn’t work.  I
think I may stay away from dating in general, online or in real life!  
We’ll see...  L.L.

Really? Really, I'm not "model pretty"? You don't say? Wow, I *totally* thought I looked like Cindy Crawford! ;)

Liz Rizzo ( http://blogher.org/blog/liz-rizzo )

I blog at Everyday Goddess ( http://everydaygoddess.typepad.com/ ).

I think that’s true!!  That these men are
online because they in fact have NO clue about how to act around women and that
because of that very fact, they've turned off real live women!  I had
never thought of that Lynda!!  L.L.

Anne

I think, again on further reflection, maybe keeping our options open is the best way to treat any potential opportunity for meeting people (be that new friends, potential relationships, or whatever).  Crying off online dating is perhaps a knee jerk reaction, and provided one keeps it in perspective, it is in reality just another option.  The expectations certainly need to be kept realistic (and mine will be particularly so from now on) and trying to improve one's level of perceptiveness about motives probably wouldn't hurt either.  But as with all things that are designed to hopefully enrich our lives, it's really self knowledge and self understanding that helps us build potential relationships (wherever first established) into something lasting.  And Seattlegirl - congratulations and well done on finding your partner. 

Laura, at 22, I sometimes think the same
thing!!  But I know that I shouldn't
settle, but sometimes, it just sounds so darn tempting!!  So how did the date go anyway??  I hope it went really great for you!   L.L.

Thanks, Seattlegirluw. I agree, there are much better ways to meet people. Internet dating truly is random, and that may be one of the reasons it doesn't seem to work for many of us. Better to meet people with similar interests via some of the ways you suggest (I'll look into a meetup in my area!). I think many of us feel very strapped for time and also quite solitary in our pursuit for a relationship (all our friends are married); for those reasons, internet dating seems attractive. But in the end it can just contribute to a feeling of isolation. Best to keep all our options open and try new things.

Jo, ( http://ipickuppennies.blogspot.com )  I think you make an excellent point about the community factor. But even taking out the odd hook-up in the bar, there are a lot of times when you just encounter someone randomly and socially. I always got the impression that before all that, people liked what they saw and one asked the other out.  I'm not saying that friends never set their friends up... But I think it was only one of a few ways people met. That said, I think it's often better to get set up by friends (if your friends have any kind of discriminating taste). Still, it's also harder if things don't work out. It's awkward.  I think you have the right attitude -- don't expect too much, be careful and never shut off any possible avenue of finding someone interesting. There's a social club here called something along the lines of "meet up, Seattle" or "meet.seattle.com" or something in that arena. I am assuming it's a national company with chapters. It's a great idea. It's a program with a ton of subgroups (free, by the way) of folks with various interests. They set up meet times (not much chatting actually goes on online) and usually there's a nominal couple bucks to cover any administrative fees if it's an activity. But often it's just coffee or food. There are single parents, religions, Magic the Gathering players... Tons of interests and a way to take the pressure off trying to find a friend or a date by making it a group setting. Because, really, if you want someone with the same interests as you, what better way than to join a hobby club? Hiking or board-game lover, this way you're in a social environment and it's not one-on-one.
  ( http://ipickuppennies.blogspot.com )

I have been online dating for almost 5 years, with only one "relationship" that lasted more than a few dates. Here are my thoughts on why it often does not work.

In the past, dating was something that occurred within a community. Men and women met men through friends, through family, at a class, etc. Yes, there was the occasional bar hook-up, but even then, there was often some commonality that brought you both to that place at that time. What that created was SOCIAL OBLIGATION, however subtle. All I mean by that is that not only could we get some kind of back-story on the guy, but he also had some obligation to be decent in order to save face with whatever our mutual community might be. Maybe, however subconscious, community also created the obligation to "give it a go", an obligation that, let's face it, we need sometimes. Dating is hard.

What I've found with online dating is those obligations (and of course, back stories) are completely out the window.

And responding to Anne's story, which sounds very painful, obviously some kind of back-story (i.e. "the ex-girlfriend is still around") or communal connections may have obliged her beau to be more forthcoming earlier in the process.

There is also the whole "kid in a candy shop" syndrome. You might be a delightful, beautiful, happy woman, but online dating gives the man the sense that there may be other, more beautiful, more delightful, happier women just waiting to meet him. It's completely false and again, speaks to the lack of social obligation. Any small thing might turn him off (you live more than 30 miles away, your boobs are too small--whatever). On to the next woman.

I haven't given up, but I now go into these things with the lowest expectations possible (it's hard) as well as with a bit of armor. ALWAYS speak on the phone, a FEW TIMES before meeting.

I've moved on to other concerns of the single woman in her late 30s, on my blog, http://allthatshewants.blogspot.com

Jo

SeattleGirl,

Congratulations on the marriage!

I think you really nailed it when you talk about developing a sense of intimacy in the email exchange, and (if you're brazen) the phone calls, before the actually meet and greet. I had a date last night following a week of light and breezy emails, but as soon as I sat down (and before I held against him the fact that he had bought himself a coffee before I got there so he wouldn't have to pay $2.00 for my coffee) I realized that I had imagined charm where there wasn't any. We can pretend that there's an interesting person in there when we only get a few words in response to ours, but when there's a whole conversation to fill, the void quickly becomes apparent. After an arduous hour, I left to pick up some take-out Thai.

Laura, writing about Looking for Love on Craig's List and other things at www.RebelliousThoughtsofaWoman.com ( http://www.rebelliousthoughtsofawoman.com/ )

Well, I hate to lighten the mood and be a pollyanna but I actually met my husband on CL. 

 Completely randomly, actually. I had vowed to take a break from online dating because of a particularly bad set of guys. But lil ole me had sooo much time on her hands that she checked the listings anyway. And I saw an ad that was slightly cheesy but in a way that hinted it might actually be genuine. (Also, luckily, I have no head for Washington geography and so didn't realize until we had already started talking that he was about an hour away from me.)

We just clicked and we've certainly had turbulence here and there (I'm frugal and he's a spender... we've both been learning some good lessons about compromise) we were just married on our second anniversary this past Mother's Day.

 And in case that was just too much saccharin to stand I have an anecdote about my absolute best worst-date:

I end up with this guy who's kind of a doofus. And I like nerdy guys, but this guy wasn't nerdy just dumb and overly full of himself. (I know, in a guy... who'd have thunk it?) And he keeps telling me, "I don't set up second dates while on first dates" which relieved me because I thought, great I can make this a quick drink or two and then get away!

So he starts telling me that he wants to cook me dinner next time. Ugh.

Then, as he was on his third or so drink -- which was one drink too many because he was that effusive, slightly sloppy/soppy drinker -- he pulled out the absolute worse come-on I've ever heard. 

I have to set this up a little... He asked if I found him attractive, I politely lied and said, Sure yeah -- because, really, how else do you answer that? I'm too polite.

Anyway, he then proceeds to tell me he finds me attractive. I thank him and try to accept the compliment and move on. Less than three sentences later, he says (and I quote) "I mean... I'm not looking for MODEL pretty."

I somehow manage NOT to get the cider I'm drinking up my nose. And once the giggling impulse has left me (I mean, if I'd been interested in him, it would have been an ego blow but this guy was just lame) I  told him that he might want to avoid using those two sentences so close together on future dates with women.

"Really?" he asked. "Why?" He was genuinely puzzled.

I try to explain -- the way you try to explain something that patently obvious -- that the proximity of those two statements would lead most women (I was polite enough not to say carbon-based life forms with the intelligence of a house plant) to assume he was saying we were pretty -- just not MODEL pretty. 

He listened intently. THen he paused, looked away for a second, and then looked back at me. Vaguely shocked he said, "Wow... Women are sensitive!"

It's funny in retrospect, but at the time I was beginning to sympathize with those animals caught in traps who opt to chew a limb off. 

In other words: online dating can be hell. But you can draw on your pain one day to write a play about the horrors of dating. Or send your therapy bill to each of these guys (which is why you keep their email addresses!). Or, sometimes, you'll actually meet someone of value. 

Which is to say, really, that there's about as much luck dating online as dating offline. No matter where you go, men will, taken as a group, be idiots or dense or annoying or rude. It doesn't matter where you meet them. It just so happens that the anonymity of the Web makes it easier for them to be slimeballs up front -- whereas regular dating often means they wait a bit.

I think the danger in the internet game is that you get to know each other before actually meeting (made trickier by that picture that they had that turns out to be four years and sixty pounds ago -- it's not necessarily a deal breaker but warn a girl sheesh). Anyway this emailing back and forth tends to build up expectations and to create a false sense of intimacy. It makes you more invested on a first date. It also makes the statistical likelihood that things won't work out just that much more crushing and exhausting.

But, in the end, I think it has more to do with odds than the goods in any one market. It's not like, if you give up online dating, you'll suddenly meet all wonderful men. You might, but chances are you'll meet plenty of jerks, too.

I'd say that's my two cents but I think I am closer to about a dollar. Sorry for the long-winded pontification.

( http://ipickuppennies.blogspot.com )

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Anne

Having scaled down a bit emotionally from my post-text
dumpee post of yesterday, I've decided two things.  (1) The man
had weaknesses/problem areas which I was in fact aware of before this
happened but glossed over in the heat of the attraction and long term I
don't think it would have worked for me anyway.  I'm going to
treat it as a learning experience and whether or not he goes with the
old girlfriend, wants to give me a try again, or moves on, I am not
going to be there for him.It's helping here to focus in retrospect on
the  negatives rather than the positives of course! 
(2)  I'm staying away from online dating for a while.  I
believe there are good guys on there as well as bad, my fear is that
whether good or bad, men and I'm sure some women too see it as a bit of
a shopping expedition, rather than a real investment of effort in
something that could be life changing.  Well strength of
resolution is yet to be tested of course in both those areas!

 ...Duh, idiot man online, because you are so frickin' stupid! lol

 It seems like a lot of the men on dating sites are lazy, stupid about women or too busy to get involved.  Maybe when they signed up they were hungry for love.  Did things change and now they're there just because they paid the money?  One guy told me he turns his profile off most of the time but turns it on when he needs a lift.  Another guy is very responsive to my e-mails but uses very few words when responding.  He wants to meet with me but it has to be several days after he gets back from his business trip.  Meanwhile, I'm moving forward and using that search option.  So many guys have responded to me but the ones who are really over eager say such inappropriate things.  One guy wanted me to come right over at 9:00 at night to visit him at his house.  I had never met him or talked to him before that conversation.  He is a real psycho I'm sure.  Another guy during our first conversation asked which I prefered wearing in the hot tub, a top or a bottom.  Another guy had our FIRST date planned at a private beach where we could go skinny dipping and no one would see.  Are these people for real?  Talk about having no clue as to how to act around women, they're the masters.  That's got to be why a lot of them are online.  They have totally pissed real live women off.  I'm sure there are great men online, but you have to weed out soooo many that aren't an option.  This takes work!  No wonder Match.com rewards you with 6 free months if you send 5 e-mails a month, keep your picture up and profile on.

Lynda

*

~~_/)_~~

Hi Anne, and thank you so very much for applying to my
post!! That’s absolutely amazing Anne, I'm so sorry... My question
is are men, whether we meet them online or in real life, flawed?? I think
it would have been the same wherever you two had met. I would like
to have a truly loving relationship as well, but as I said in my blog,
sometimes I would just like a boyfriend! Just someone to hang out
with. But deep down, I know myself, and what I really want is someone who’s
gonna stay around for a (long) while. I think eventually we'll find
that... eventually L.L.

Springtime

On one hand I think it's great that we still have such high expectations for men, otherwise, we might settle. At 47, I am afraid that I might think a frog is better than no frog.

Oh, and regarding tonight. Expectations have been lowered again. He seems to think that my sense of humor is really anger. We'll see.

Laura, www.RebelliousThoughtsofaWoman.com ( http://www.rebelliousthoughtsofawoman.com/ )

Wow Laura... Absolutely unbelievable, but
not really because I find myself asking that question too, "what are they
thinking?" I now think that they in fact AREN'T thinking!! Wow a
text break up, that’s the lowest. It’s just so frustrating, for lack of a
better word. I just don't understand these men. I pray that you
have a great date, I know that feeling though, of not expecting anything
wonderful to come out of it. It's sad that we have to tame our
expectations because we're just so used to getting disappointed, it's a real
shame...L.L.

My 2 cents, I think that relationships are relationships, and people are people. The problem with many people (men?) online could be the ease with which a person can meet other people without really considering if he is ready for a relationship or able to be in a relationship. I met a man through craig's list who was wonderful; turns out, though,  that he was unhappy in his marriage and was just playing around when he posted his ad. Then we met and there was that initial excitement, until reality crept in. 

Finding love, so many frogs online and off.

Laura, www.RebelliousThoughtsofaWoman.com ( http://www.rebelliousthoughtsofawoman.com/ )

Anne

Well I recently thought I'd found love online - the "real
thing", "the one", finally hit the jackpot!  After lots of
spasmodic forays I too had gotten fairly fed up with the non-success of
my attempts.  Seemed to be a complete dearth of men in whom I was
able to raise enough interest/enthusiasm to even get to the first date
stage with.  But a month or so ago that all changed.  I met a
man who was sweet, kind, caring and so gorgeous looking I had trouble
keeping my hands off him whenever we were together.  Anyway I fell
hook line and sinker and not being a complete dumbo, was naturally
encouraged in these feelings by similar feelings coming back from him -
I'm good at picking up distancing or ambivalent about commitment vibes,
and believe me they were definitely not there!  All has been
progressing well with what I considered to be a growing closeness and
various references in conversation to things we would do in the future
- until yesterday - one day after our last date, which was loving,
exciting and wonderful.  For the first time he didn't reply to a
text message I sent him and initiated no contact himself.  We had
plans for tonight (Sat night) which needed to be firmed up in terms of
time and place so I finally called this morning given the silence and
was met with a very distant, stilted and decidedly anxiety producing
response.  I subsequently received a text message to say
yesterday!!! he had been feeling a bit lonely and by chance met up with
an old girlfriend.  They had a couple of wines and he is now
"confused" about his feelings.  Would like to put things "on hold"
with me while he tries to figure them out.  So still reeling from
this smack in the gut I have told him to leave me alone for a few days
(which if the fires have indeed been rekindled with the old girlfriend
he probably won't have any trouble doing).  I can't believe after
such happiness and hope this old pain and disappointment is hanging
around my heart and gut again.  Could I/should I have seen this
coming?  Are all online men emotionally flawed, is it something
about the online environment, I don't know - maybe it would have been
the same wherever we met.  I would love to have a loving
relationship but right now it seems like crying for the moon.

I wrote off online dating after my last date lied that he was still married and revealed that his wife, who he is not going to divorce, has a brain tumor, and then left the bar when I was taking too long (throwing up) in the bathroom. What are they thinking! A friend, who met her soulmate on match two months ago, just told me that he broke up with her via text because he, apparently, couldn't interpret a woman's bad mood as being just that, a bad mood, and not a deep reflection of her feelings about him and their relationship.

I don't know where else to meet someone. I teach, and so am surrounded by 14-year-olds and women all day. I know not to hope to meet someone in a romantic way, because that's how I met my ex-husband. Sometimes the frog really is a frog.  

My first date in three months is tomorrow. At least now I know to tame the expectations.

Laura, blogging about looking for love on craig's list, among other things, at www.RebelliousThoughtsofaWoman.com ( http://www.rebelliousthoughtsofawoman.com/ )