Domestic Violence: "If He Loved You, He Wouldn't Have Hit You"

.  Your marriage sounds like a marriage that has been through thick and thin together.  You stood by him and he got help. And although he didn't hit you , he controlled his anger at that last second, I think it is great that he went and got help.   It seems like we (as society) want men to be this "alpha-male" and it isn't even okay for them to cry! I just think the stigma of getting help and admitting you have a problem hinders prevention and ending abuse.  Good for him and Good for you :) I truly wish you the both the best.

"by bringing love into the equation, we make it more difficult for women to make a decision"

Wow. Talk about hitting the nail on the head.

You should seriously consider writing some sort of thesis or something LOL because it seems to me that all of the "professionals" gets so high-and-mighty and "I am a this and I am that ".  They think there views are accurate and all their is but it isn't that way.  Life shifts and moves a fluid experience we all must live through.

And emotional abuse is just as damaging , scars hidden from eyes but deeply rooted in the mind.

I see your point.  We can try to force someone who is being abused (verbal or physical) to leave them or say the same old line "if he loved you , he wouldn't hit you".  You are right because if there was no deeper issue there wouldn't even be "domestic violence" concerns.   Women would just get up and leave.  And sure some might but not enough do. That is the real issue.  Maybe they are scared or maybe they (being the woman) truly love their husband. After all, When you get married , you make certain vows.  No different than cheating husbands that have wives that look the other way. Sure you say " I would never" , well until you walk in other shoes maybe shouldn't be so quick to judge.It is the "if you love him, you shoudln't let him hit you"?  You should get him help.  ASAP.

Maybe getting your husband help could save your marriage and your childrens lives.  Asking for emotional help seems to be so hard for men and why is that? I am not sure.  Its just not a cut and dried topic.  And yes I am sure , like all other people with issues, there are those who refuse to see their problems.   Well, then you don't have a choice.   People only help themselves when they want to help themselves.

And before you don't finish reading my comment, yes I have had experience with abuse.  No, I am not a professional. And no I don't think in any shape or form is abuse "ok".  It isn't.  

I appreciate your post because it gives me an opportunity to look at this issue from a different perspective. Isn't that what discourse is all about?

In my opinion, the problem is with the popular definition of "love". I don't believe that true, genuine, mature love (often synomous with commitment and unselfish care)  inflicts pain on the object of the love. Further, someone that has grown and matured into this type of affection would walk away rather than generate hurt. 

The problem is most people - sometimes myself included - have no clue what real love is. I'm an old girl of forty and I think I'm just now beginning to figure it out. Love is self-less and magnanimous in nature.  Most people "get" a feeling of sexual compulsion, butterflies in the stomach and mislabel it "love". The truth is that  most of us haven't experienced, witnessed or even smelled it. It's lust we're most familiar with.

That's how someone can say they "love" you and still harm you - they have no mature conceptualization of what love really and truly is.

Great post. It made me think.

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Hell we all know that right..but.....the world is not black and white but many shades of grey.

We can all lose our temper and lash out, but to say you don't love someone because you do?

Ladies, have you ever swatted your child out of shear anger or frustration or fear? And no I am NOT starting a smacking debate ( Holy moly I ain't gonna roll with that again ;) Would you say you didn't love them because you swatted their behind after he hit the baby on the head with his truck?

My husband once came within a whisker of hitting me, at the last second he turned and hit the wall instead.

My husband is not a violent man, but at  the time he was suffering hugely with depression and anything I went through (mentally) at that time he went through a hundred fold.

IF he had hit me would I have left him?

Probably not.

One twitch in 10 years of marrige is worth looking at. As a result of this incident he went into councelling and CBT with anger manegement.

The thing is there is a HUGE gap between the husband that once, in a huge row slapped his wife (OR wife slapped her husband, lets NOT forget the show can fit the other foot) and the husband that beats his wife with fist and belt and feet to make her oby him.

No, to say its as simple as "If he loved you he wouldn't have hit you" is naive at best, butthat dosn't mean it should be a more than once in a relationship thing.  

Is it your flab or your brain you need to fight? Answers on a postcard please.

With reading some of the responses from others on here I have to tell you how nice it is to see another voice of reason. I'm concerned that so many consider love & abuse as a combination. First time I was hit (and it was after 5 1/2 years together) - I left & never looked back. I refuse to ever let that type of mindset happen to me...

I want real love. Not some tainted version of it; life is too short.

Jennifer
Unconditional Mom
http://anunconditionalmom.blog.com/

ModernMom.com Blogger

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Love is a verb, it is an action, it is caring and gentleness and consideration and never ever does it include the use of force on another person.

Yes, parents must teach children boundaries, morals and values but then it's up to the young adult to go forth and live. Parents who hit children only teach children that big people can cause pain and be scary.

All of this is about accountability and self control.

I too have worked with hundreds of "survivors" of domestic violence and not one person ever said it started with physical assault. It starts with the words and the messages and those actions leave scars, just not visible on the outside. Education is essential in stopping the cycle of silence and misinformation.

I have links and resources on my blog, http://blog.mft3.com. Just click on the Domestic Violence link on the right and read and learn, then share.

As someone who comes from a family where abuse, in many forms, is a bit of a common place thing, then I would say that being hit isn't necessarily a sign that a person doesn't love you.  It just means that they don't love you in a way that is appropriate.

Some people have an obsessive type of love that leads them to violence, which is not okay.  It is a form of love, though, and people forget that.  This is how some people express their emotions, and though their outbursts are horrible, and shouldn't happen...the fact is that the person who does this is not exactly thinking within the normal mindset.

Obsessive love is always violent, whether it results in physical, sexual, or emotional damage.  Obsessive love is not the kind of love we seek.  It is still love.  Of course, just because it is love doesn't mean that it should be tolerated.

I think I get what you mean to say. Something along the lines of "sometimes shit happens even if you love someone" and you're not specifically talking about an abusive relationship where hitting is indeed a means of control and punishment. You're talking about an ordinary relationship where there is real love. In a situation where things suddenly explode in an argument, for example. After hours and hours of debating, crying, shouting, begging, menacing, throwing things and eventually throwing punches. It could as well be the woman that finally hits.

Yes, indeed. Sometimes shit happens and someone gets hit. I would point out that words do more damage than physical blows in the long term.

Whatever the situation, ordinary blowout discussion or abusive relation, may it be love or obsession, it's never okay. And in that loving relationship where shit happened, it should not happen anymore. There definitely should be more communication and therapy before it evolves in something more.

I would be very alert in that loving relationship. I would probably question the love, question the relationship, question the way the discussions are handled. If I were the woman who got loved and hit, I would definitely tell the man that he better not touch me again or I'll leave and get him arrested. In my case, I tell guys off the bat that they better not touch me because I WILL touch THEM and I have a violent father and I have weird uncles. Never happens.

Is it worth it ? Thinking he loves you anyway ? I don't think so.

Terry Elisabeth http://pandabox33.wordpress.com http://bazookah5.wordpress.com

It is my pleasure to voice my education and experience, all learned first hand from the very brave women (and a few men) who have chosen to break the cycle of violence. Never would I say that leaving is easy - but it is no harder than the life of abuse that so many find themselves in, it's just unfamiliar, different and therefore scary. Ask for help, enlist a guide in the form of a therapist, seek support from local groups, talk about the real details of abuse with everyone you can and then maybe we can shed the proper light on this enormous and pervasive secret, robbing it of its power.

Dream big, you are worthy of nothing less.

Resources...

The Macho Paradox www.themachoparadox.com ( http://www.themachoparadox.com )

Why Does He Do That? www.lundybancroft.com ( http://www.lundybancroft.com )

The Gift of Fear www.gavindebecker.com ( http://www.gavindebecker.com )

One Friday night, Isle Dance ( http://isledance.blogspot.com ) loaded up her life and headed out...

LOL fair enough.

Albeit, the last thing I'll say on the subject is... my mindset is closed on what I believe. I don't think a person can be in a loving relationship if they are capable of hurting that same person.

I feel HORRIBLE when I yell at my child. To abuse? I never want to feel that because I love her too much. The idea of causing her physical pain is upsetting for me to even think about.

Can an abuser love another and never cause them pain? Absolutely. Anyone can change or modify their behavior - if they so desire or with professional therapy of some sort. However, I simply don't believe that if they are hitting someone that they are able to truly love that person with every fiber of their being. Real love - not the idea of or their concept of it.

In short, love and anger do not go hand in hand - they will always be separate entities. Sadly the misconception of what love is, is what confines the absused to never leave the one inflicting so much pain. That pain becomes their perception of love which is obviously inaccurate.

Also, those who say they 'love too much' don't understand love; they're often confused or don't grasp the concept. It's along the same guidelines of, 'If you love something set it free". We set it free because we believe we aren't making them happy. Love is wanting a person to be happy. The last thing on the abusers mind is happiness of the person they are hitting in anger or rage; it's a selfish act.

Thank you, btw, for being mature about it - regardless of the topic; class act!

Jennifer
Unconditional Mom
http://anunconditionalmom.blog.com/

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SheBlogs.org Advisory Panelist

If i may be so presumptious as to write what I took from the OP's message -

That it does not matter whether he loves or not.  That its a red herring.  That arguing about it, or convincing yourself, or worrying about it - is a waste of time.  If he hits you, you need to get out. 

And saying that its possible for somebody to love you and hit you, is not the same as saying its ok.

The commenters here who react so violently - just think about it.  Why does this make you angry?  Because you seem to be assuming that if there is love, then it is worth staying in the relationship.  Even if there is abuse.

It does not really matter whether I call the relationship between abused and abuser "love".  Many abused women do.  They are convinced.  Can you help them realise that - whether or not there is love - they need to look after themselves?

By saying "he does not love you" you send the sub-message "if there was, it would be OK."

The OP is not saying "its love, so its ok" .  What I get, is that by brining love into the equation, we make it more difficult for women to make a decision.  When a councillor, or friend, or doctor says "Lady, there is no way he loves you.  Look at your bruises." It may not be helpful, and may not be the best way to empower that woman.

She needs to look at what he does, not what he feels.

Another question is - what about situations where there is no physical abuse?  Emotional abuse is just as damaging -and not so easy to "prove" to yourself. 

To state an opinion. That's all. This was a post written for and posted on my personal blog months ago, that BlogHer syndicated and published here today. The tagline of my blog is you don't have to agree with me, pretty much because I tend to post a lot of opinion pieces, none of which are meant to sway anyone, only express myself.

I understand that it sounds like I'm somehow offering up excuses for abusive relationships, but I'm not. This topic is so one sided that it's almost blasphemous to say anything even remotely different than 'love doesn't hurt, blah blah blah'. As soon as something not like that hits the air, the immediate response to disagree, period. I get that. But I don't understand how people can so confidently say that if you are capable of hitting someone, you aren't capable of loving anyone. I don't get why those two things have to hold hands.

There are plenty of people in the world that didn't learn or haven't learned yet how to get out what they're feeling. Maybe they're continuing a cycle, reenacting what they witnessed growing up, whatever the case may be. To say that they are all unable to love just doesn't sit well with me. I'm not a fan of making blanket statements and applying them to everyone, every situation. I think it's close minded to say that ALL things are ALWAYS this way and it's NEVER different, no matter what the topic is, and no matter what any majority thinks.

I don't remember exactly why I wrote this, it was a while ago. Maybe I stopped on some Lifetime movie when I was channel surfing one day, I'm not sure.

And I don't think it's apples to oranges. Apples to...mmm, pears maybe?

- Maria Young

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So you're not trying to convince anyone. What was the point? (Not saying that rude as I know text can be perceived that way). I suppose my point to your post is simply this... abused women, who actually leave the relatinship, realize the difference. There is love and there is control. You say it's not impossible for an abuser to love someone... I say that's not accurate. Majority opinion would agree.

Now I have to ask - is there something that specifically triggered your post? I'm simply trying to understand the mindset.

To the one who compared abusive partners and parents who spank their children - apples & oranges. Seriously, bad comparison.

Jennifer
Unconditional Mom
http://anunconditionalmom.blog.com/

ModernMom.com Blogger

SheBlogs.org Advisory Panelist

I can't really say anything to them but, as I stated above, I'm not in any way advocating remaining in an abusive relationship, so I wouldn't have said anything different to them than what I said to my friend Melody a few weeks before her abusive boyfriend and father of her toddler son shot her in the head and killed her: "You need to leave him."

- Maria Young

immoralmatriarch.com ( http://immoralmatriarch.com )@maria0305
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I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm stating a personal opinion, and explaining where I see necessary. But, your statement.

"Evidently you have never been truly loved or...have truly loved someone."

Presumptuous and inaccurate. I never, EVER said that abuse was acceptable, on any level. I actually think somewhere in there I said the exact opposite, ie. "It is never okay."

And no, I'm not in an abusive relationship.

- Maria Young

immoralmatriarch.com ( http://immoralmatriarch.com )@maria0305
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What do you say to the women who were killed by their abusers and b/c they thought he loved them so they stuck it out?

There is no justification or excuse, I think I said that pretty clearly. But I don't think it's true in all cases that someone that hits you does not love you. Should it happen? No. Is it healthy? No. Should the abused party leave? Most definitely. Is it certain that someone that hits you does not love you? That's debatable, in my opinion.

I think people are caught way too much up on love, whatever their definition of it is, being what sustains a relationship. It's not. The Beatles lied, folks. You need trust, you need respect, you need a slew of other things other than love. I think it's a certainty that someone who hits you does not respect you, but not necessarily love.

- Maria Young

immoralmatriarch.com ( http://immoralmatriarch.com )@maria0305
( http://twitter.com/maria0305 )

And I agree, in general but I don't think you are getting my point.

My point is that just because someone is incapable of handling their anger or rage or frustration in a mature and positive or effective way, does not mean they are also incapable of loving someone. That is presumptuous and inaccurate. We hit people to control or punish them, yes: isn't that why parents spank their children? But, we don't then claim that they don't love them. While corporal punishment is debatable, violence in domestic relationships is most definitely not and it is wrong, of course,  it's still something to consider - that slight double standard. A parent is totally capable of loving a child that they may strike but a partner is not?

I personally don't believe that either is okay, but I also don't believe that either indicates that there is no love in the relationship.

And for the record, I am not talking to just women. Take a recent example: when Elin Woods went wailing on her husband out of anger at finding out how he was defecating all over their marriage, no one doubted her love for him. Flip around though, and everyone would be doubting his. Something to think about.

- Maria Young

immoralmatriarch.com ( http://immoralmatriarch.com )@maria0305
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The first word in the post is profanity, but I digress.

As far as the post - what an odd day to discuss love and abuse.

My opinion - I don't agree with a single word stated by the OP. Evidently you have never been truly loved or...have truly loved someone. They do not go hand-in-hand no matter what or who is involved. I don't know what has happened to you, to make you feel that way, but I truly hope you're not invovled with someone who raises his hand to you in anger and convince yourself that he loves you. Someone who is angry enough to lay a hand on a human being doesn't even love themselves; more or less another person. The abuser and the abusee BOTH need therapy if they feel that abuse is acceptable on any level.

So in essence I suppose what I'm trying to say is... "If he loved you, he wouldn't hit you"

Sorry if that hurts you, but the truth often does. Good luck.

Jennifer
Unconditional Mom
http://anunconditionalmom.blog.com/

ModernMom.com Blogger

SheBlogs.org Advisory Panelist

Could we please post comments without profanity -- not everyone uses it.

Thank you.

I had to read this twice just trying to understand what to take away from this post. I'm still not sure I completely get it. As a person who has worked with victims of violence in particular, my so called "speciality" being assault and sexual assault, I can assure you there is no justification or excuse for any form of abuse in a relationship.

No where in the definition of love is there even a whisper that hitting is acceptable. Nor does it state that someone who is abusive is remotely holding onto any other principles of love; such as respect, honor, or cherishing another or even themselves for that matter.

Though we continue to live in a culture that can find degrees of hitting acceptable and degress of verbal abuse necessary in order to get a message across we are fooling ourselves. The most beautiful love in the world never saw a raised hand and a person who truly values who they are can not accept it.

Abuse takes on many forms and therefore it can be difficult and even confusing to know how far it has escalated and how much farther it has to go.

HITTING IS ABUSE AND THERE IS NO ROOM FOR IT IN A TRULY LOVING RELATIONSHIP! PLEASE WOMEN DON'T KEEP THE MESSAGE REPEATING THAT THERE IS ANY OTHER WAY TO LOOK AT IT!

This is so true:

No ladies - we do not sometimes hit the people we love.  We hit the people we are trying to control or to punish - period amen, end of sentence.  

I think often times we mistake obsession and control for love. Once a man moves over to hitting you, he is asserting control. He may think he loves you desperately, but it's obsession. Even if he does it in a burst of rage, that's only his subconscious bubbling up showing you that he has confused loving you with owning and controlling you. Be afraid. Be very afraid.

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Twenty four years I spent arresting, dealing with, prosecuting and finally providing batterers treatment for violent offenders and protecting victims and if I had a nickel for every time I heard this type of ridiculous  patter.....  No ladies - we do not sometimes hit the people we love.  We hit the people we are trying to control or to punish - period amen, end of sentence.   That is not love - Love is more like sacrificing ones needs for the needs of another and focusing on supporting the goals of our partner while astonishingly they are focusing on supporting us and our own goals.  Outside of that is chaos, power games, control and political bullshit that none of us should ever have to deal with.  Whew - don't make me have to stop this car...............

I suppose the unspoken extension of "if he loved me, he wouldnt hit me"

is:

" ..I should leave him, because he does not love me." 

Instead of:

"I should leave because he hits me".

Which might clarify things a bit, since you can argue this way and that about the love, but not about the hitting.