Ronnie Lee Gardner: If We Are Not Our Brother's Keeper, at Least Let Us Not Be His Executioner

Moral justification? I cannot tailor the argument to your view of morality - that's a subjective argument in the end. As I've said, I believe the death penalty is a form of justice and advocate for it when I believe it is justified. I will not use my voice to speak for those who have a platform, for those on death row seeking to sell a book or to make personal connections with penpals.

"It is acceptable because it is lawful" is another conclusory statement that offers no real moral justification. Lots of people think abortion is unacceptable regardless of how lawful it is. Lots of other behaviors are lawful (or at least not unlawful) but are still immoral. Making the conscious, deliberate choice to take another human being's life is immoral and doesn't become less so because we have laws that allow it.

Those who deliberately decide to execute an individual may not commit a crime, but I think they commit an immoral act. They have no more moral justification for their choice to commit homicide than does anyone else who chooses to commit homicide, except for those who truly are acting in the face of an imminent threat justifying the use of deadly force in self-defense. The death penalty is not comparable to self-defense in the face of an imminent threat because there is no imminent threat. The threat posed by an incarcerated inmate has been neutralized.

You really don't want me to get into my views on the use of military force. Let's just leave it at actual use of force in the heat of battle is not comparable to the death penalty because of the existence of imminent threat.

Preaching to the Choir ( http://rantsofapublicdefender.blogspot.com/ )

As someone who actually did show up for this execution, I will admit I was truly surprised how very few of us were there that evening in opposition to the death penalty. I guess I expected more given the media blitz and incessant coverage.

I know I'm a squeaky and sometimes very unpopular voice in Utah, but I also feel that change can only happen if all voices are heard. Sometimes, I just have to keep shouting really loudly.

Thank you for your response. It is acceptable because it is lawful. They commit no crime when deciding his fate.

When a man or woman kills to defend his/her country are they acting in the same manner and with the intent of a pre-meditated murderer?

CNN did produce a biography of this particular man's victim. I don't think he has been forgotten (except to the extent that the powers that be disregarded his views on the death penalty).

But I can't allow you simply to say that "there is simply no comparison" between one premeditated, intentional killing and another without explaining in any way how you can justify that conclusory statement. Over a dozen people conspired together to consider the fate of Gardner and mutually concluded they had good reason to take his life. How is it acceptable for those people to make that calculated, conscious choice simply because Gardner did it first?

Preaching to the Choir ( http://rantsofapublicdefender.blogspot.com/ )

Certainly, the balance of justice weighs in favour of society, that is a concept to which I subscribe and understand. What baffles me though is the attention paid to his past and his suffering....why not produce "biographies" of his victims? Why are they forgotten so easily?

There is no part of me that would agree however, with your last statement. There is simply no comparison in my mind and there are too many variables in the equation.

I didn't know much about Ronnie Lee Gardner's background, so thank you for sharing. Somehow I missed his biography in the local news--

I thought your response to the first comment was very insightful. And while I can understand the emotional response, I know that our laws are based on intellectual precepts and not emotional reactions--or at least they claim to be. I would probably want vengeance on anyone who harmed a loved one, but that's why they don't put me on the jury.

One more Utahn against the death penalty. That makes it about an even dozen, eh?

In answer to your question, no the family of the victim did not support Gardner's execution. The victim was a pacifist and opposed to the death penalty. His family asked for clemency for Gardner just this month.

As a general rule, though, I don't believe that crime and sentencing policy should be driven by what the victim's family wants. While I am deeply sympathetic to anyone who has endured that loss, the criminal justice system isn't designed to directly redress that wrong. The criminal justice system is about a societal response to crime, not the varied responses of individual victims. As a society, I feel we should not be engaging in premeditated, intentional killings. We become what we condemn when we make the conscious choice to kill.

Preaching to the Choir ( http://rantsofapublicdefender.blogspot.com/ )

While I can intellectually subscribe to the theory you present as it relates to the confusing lesson this imparts to our children, emotionally I would like to see justice served. Did the surviving family members of this murderer support his execution? Did it bring them some sense of relief?

As a surviving family member of a murder victim, I personally wish that the death penalty was a legal option in the country in which they (the criminals) are incarcerated. I know that would bring our family some sense of justice. Three square meals and visits with their family members hardly cut it for us.

Throughout our exchange I have not implied or stated that your stance was outlandish. That would be highly arrogant and defeats the purpose of this exchange.

In my view, the moral balance was completely thrown out of whack by Gardner's actions. Retributionary justice, I believe, restores this balance to a degree. The comforts and rights afforded a criminal of this nature hardly provide comfort to many of the surviving family and friends of the victims. It may not be the case for all however, it certainly would be for us.

I don't really think "killing people is wrong" is such an outlandish moral stand to take. You haven't actually said WHY you think the death penalty is justice. What is just about it? It kind of irks me when people take a stand but refuse to explain that stand.

Preaching to the Choir ( http://rantsofapublicdefender.blogspot.com/ )