Jealousy Isn't Always An Ugly Emotion

The harshest, most intense jealousy used against me since I started blogging has been wielded by a man.

Men are definitely not immune, but I will say this: they seem to have an easier time dropping it. They feel it, they just don't wallow in it. They cut you deep, and then they cut you off.

I don't think it's a better way to be. 

(and Maria Immoral Matriarch? Your comment up there? I LOVE YOU. Thank you) :)

Maggie, Dammit!

http://okayfinedammit.com

I also think that -- having been the subject of a lot of speculation,
myself -- it's natural to bristle at the implication (real or imagined)
that either you make more money than you really do OR that you can't
possibly be earning what you do for what is hard work. I have no idea
what propels these discussions, whether it's jealousy or ignorance or
whatever, but bloggers' incomes are suddenly being scrutinized and I've
got to say, I don't know many people who enjoy that.

 Yes! I've been trying to put this into words since receiving The Email but it wasn't so much the presumption of popularity that bothered me; that's just a shrug of the shoulders and a laugh, it's the assumption and subsequent feeling of being called out with regards to how much money is made by our blogging and if because of our riches, we are suddenly different people. No one wants to feel goaded into defending their writing and personal finances in a single email and post. That is when I became slightly annoyed. And I write about personal finace, but still! Obviously it wasn't her intention to cause trouble, etc. but when you throw money into the mix it brings what could have been innocuous to mildly offensive. 

Heather B.
Personal Blog: No Pasa Nada ( http://nopasanada.org )
BlogHer CE: Business, Career & Personal Finance ( http://blogher.org/topic/business-career-personal-... )

I wanted to openly thank you for making the statement that this wasn't suppose to be against "me" purposefully and that it just kind of worked out that way and most bloggers didn't mean it to be a direct punch at me.  I appreciate you making the statement that you didn't want that to happen.  It means a lot to me.  Thanks! 

Jerri Ann

Mom~E~Centric

Thanks Jerri Ann, I think that post was brilliant. Good on you for apologizing. I know you had done it before but as I said it got lost in the long posts. :) We are all learning, even those who seem like they are "A" list bloggers or whatever, and everyone makes mistakes regularly.

I type 90 words a minute and there is still no way I can do everything I want to do on the web - reply to emails, comment, post in forums etc.. Stuff just gets on top of me. I know that some of the more popular bloggers (eg Problogger) sometimes hire virtual assistants to help out just to try to keep on top of it all.

I think knowing that someone reads everything, even if they don't have the time to reply, at least helps us to feel heard. ;)

As far as your writing, the only thing I will say is that your posts can be pretty long. I used to have that problem myself, in a big way. I have an editor friend who helped teach me to cut out the extra words that take up space (like actually and really etc, I still use them but nowhere near as much as I once did). Sometimes it takes a set of fresh eyes to see that stuff.

I also learnt that it is a good idea to use headings througout a post in order to draw people through it if it is an especially long post. eg this one where it was fairly easy to do it - Snoskred made 5 million dollars online this year ( http://www.snoskred.org/2007/07/snoskred-made-5-mi... ). It is a little harder when you're writing personal stuff but just taking the first part of a paragraph and making it into a heading or perhaps using a quote from a song or a movie or something and making that into a heading for the paragraph can help people keep going with a post they might have given up on otherwise.

The majority of blog readers tend to skim read, and they find it a lot easier when a post is broken into little digestible chunks. I wrote a post about that here - 10 easy ways to improve your blog writing. ( http://www.snoskred.org/2007/08/10-easy-ways-to-im... ) I also have a great list of blog posts not written by me that are helpful across a lot of areas of blogging in my sidebar (under bloggers are helpful). Most bloggers are helpful, I've found. :)

I hope some of that info might be useful, anyway. ;)

www.snoskred.org ( http://www.snoskred.org )

i was just curious since we have discussed that in this "stuff" too. 

Jerri Ann

Mom~E~Centric

I thought it was one of the more interesting things we learned during the keynote. Heather indeed said she reads everything, but cannot answer most. She said she decided that an auto-response saying something to the effect "Thank you for the email/comment. I have received this, but get so many I can't answer each personally" would seem less personal and more lame than no response at all.

So we just turned out to the 1000 people in the room and asked how many agreed that no response was better than a canned auto-response like that. I would guess over 80% of people raised their hands.

I was surprised, personally. Not so much that a lot of people would feel that way, but rather that nearly everybody felt that way.

Elisa Camahort Page
BlogHer
elisa@blogher.com

My BlogHer profile ( http://www.blogher.com/haystackprofile/viewprofile... ) truly shows you everything I do online...Check it out!!

Did Dooce say the following at Blogher or not?

Dooce/Heather was discussing how she reads every single comment and email she ever receives

Jerri Ann

Mom~E~Centric

"I sent out a question which could have been read an insulting by some
people, and I owe people an apology for that. I'm sorry. Or even, I
sent out a question and I'm not sorry that I did that however I am
sorry if anyone was insulted by it because that wasn't my intention."

That is exactly true.  I had no intentions of offending and I am sorry if I did.  And, I will say again, it is my blog, not my husbands, I was only tapping into what others have said many times before, men have a competitive edge.  And, I truly had not thought of it the way he did until he said it out loud, then I ran with it.  My blog,, my words, and an idea stolen from my husband....any of you ever steal an idea?  Or get an idea from someone.  That's what I did, and obviously it was a bad one.  Again, my blog, my writing, my question, my offending...and I do apologize to those who were offended.

And, I tried or at least I tried to say that the commenting issue was easier for me to understand when I was the one sitting here with an inbox full of comments and emails.  I usually get 10 to 12 emails per post and sometimes no comments.  Those 10 to 12 emails are from the same 10 to 12 people.  What I received from that post was overwhelming.  I tried to say that from that experience, I did learn that it is completely possible for somoene to over-look comments and NOT be able tor respond.  I took me 3 days to respond to those 40 or so.  If it were 100's or even 1000's like you said, I see now how that could be a problem.  Again, I'm sorry if I offended anyone in that department.

Lastly, my husband sits and wonders why I read "so many blogs all the damn time" and I tell him, "to learn".  Why do I read "every freakin' article in the damned newspaper" and again, my response is "to learn".  You all are not blind, you can see my writing skills aren't wonderful.  I told you the one job I have regularly in our paper...has one hell of an editor.  Normally when she sends it back to me the first time, it is merely 50% of my work.  And that is why I am constantly reading blogs and magazines, etc.

So, I"m not sure if THIS post made any difference than any others I've written but if so, I'm glad.  As for me being in a rough spot or whatever.  I wouldn't say so necessarily.  Actually, we just closed our business so I could be with my oldest as he starts kindergarten (and my youngest at home) which also coincided with me catching a good dose of mono which has lilmited even my blog reading......gasp.....if anyone could imagine that?  My family was flaberghasted those first few days when I turned down the laptop in bed.  I just wasn't able.  That's how my feed reader came to have 1000 posts in it.  So, I'm not sure where you got the idea that I'm down and blaming others......if I'm down it is because my 5 year old left me in the breeze this morning and headed to his room exclaiming "I know where to go mom, you don't have to go".  

This got lengthy yet again and I apolgize.  But like many of you, I've lots to say! 

Jerri Ann

Mom~E~Centric

These are my sentiments nearly exactly. Not that I've never struggled with the green-eyed monster - I have. I still do. But at the end of the day, I write because I have things in my head that want out, and putting those words on figurative paper makes me feel better.

Again - brava! Well, said.

Stephanie
http://quirkyblogger.com

I want to return to something Rita said in her post - something I've read before on her personal blog (in one form or another):  "Young writers are told to read more than they write..."

Reading other people whose writing I admire is what really inspires me to write more (and to write better) myself.  People whose *writing* I admire, not necessarily those who are "famous" (tongue firmly in cheek), are the ones who make me think. Blogs are wonderful, but I also read news articles and editorial pieces and short stories from the library and lots and lots of non-fiction (my personal favorite).

There's so much to learn, so much good work to admire, and so much inspiration to be had. 

mothergoosemouse ( http://www.mothergoosemouse.com/ )

Rita - Thanks, I'm glad you could see I wasn't having a go at Jerri Ann, it would just have been impossible to discuss the points I did without referring to who it was by name and it also would not have been fair to quote those quotes otherwise.. I did try, but all the "that blogger" type stuff mixed with a lot of "she" and "her" didn't sound right.

Jerri Ann - My thought is, when you screw up as a blogger, you need to own it. When people do that I have huge respect for them - and I've had to do it myself from time to time.

It sounds to me like you're going through a tough time, Jerri Ann, and I am sorry to hear that and sorry about the situation you find yourself in. Yet it seems *to me* that you seem to be using that (and anything else you can) as an excuse for what happened rather than owning what happened. And yes, you say I'm not making excuses - but you have to see how it reads to other people, surely? If it seems like that to me, then it more than likely seems that way to other people too.

I don't know why you can't just own it - say yes, I sent out a question which could have been read an insulting by some people, and I owe people an apology for that. I'm sorry. Or even, I sent out a question and I'm not sorry that I did that however I am sorry if anyone was insulted by it because that wasn't my intention.

You may even feel like you've done that in your posts and comments but I think it is getting lost for some people in the length of those posts. That's why people are still discussing it. They don't feel like things have been resolved. An apology needs to be short, clear, and simple. Not hidden in the middle of a long post or comment.

It seems to me like you are sorry that it happened but you're also a bit too stubborn to say so outright, would that be right? ;) Because I keep seeing it surrounded by a bunch of other stuff. But I think you'll find that making a clear apology changes peoples attitudes towards the situation in a heartbeat - and it is likely they may want to apologise back to you for some of the comments they left and if you did get any unpleasant emails. That might also be a good thing on both sides. It might help repair broken bridges. Of course, it is up to you, and you should not do it unless you want to.

Finally, I'll address a comment you made -

I honestly believe that if someone commented on my blog every single
day, I'd have to at least know what the heck they were doing...stalking?

There are a lot of people who regularly comment on a lot of blogs. No blogger sends them an email saying "are you stalking me", at least not as far as I know. Depending on which blog you're commenting on, it is entirely possible that your comments are just skimmed over to make sure they don't contain anything spammy or insulting and then approved - and some blogs once you have commented once they are automatically approved, in which case it may be that nobody is reading them. You had 63 comments on one post and you say how difficult it was to deal with - Dooce gets *thousands*. Literally.

With that kind of signal to noise ratio and the pure amount of time it takes to moderate, reply to emails, live life as normal as possible, and still blog - it is fairly usual that the blogging does change - there's not as much time to blog for the blogger. You know when you read those great posts and they seem like they took maybe half an hour, sometimes they will actually take days to write for the person writing them.

I have a few posts on my blog which were written across the space of a week simply because I wanted to edit, and re-edit, and hone, and clarify and make sure the post drew people in and kept them reading. I simply don't have the time for that anymore - it is a rare occasion that I post anything which I consider "excellent".. But there was a time when I was posting excellent regularly.

For the people who can write excellent regularly without blinking an eyelid or taking several hours to do it, congratulations. You've won the luck lottery! ;) For the rest of us, it requires a lot of work. It isn't easy. The people who manage it and do manage to earn some money from it deserve every cent they get - full props to them - most of us know what hard work it is to do that.

I think the last thing anyone wants to do is make people feel guilty - that their blogging may not be as good as it once was, that they earn money from their blog, or about anything at all. We ladies carry more than enough guilt around with us already, don't we? So why put any more guilt on each other?

www.snoskred.org ( http://www.snoskred.org )

I don't know if it is a good thing or not, but.....I had a long post typed out, and I went to get a drink ...and......I hit the doggone close button on my browser....IDIOT!

So, I'm going to be much more brief than I was the first time, hopefully...because I had a lot of time invested in that one flippin' comment.

First of all, and I'm not making excuses, because I know that is how it sounds kind of, but.......the analogy between jealous in women = competition in men.......the question that I posed was not my own question.  It never even occurred to me until my husband brought it up.....there you have male with the competitive nature to be bigger and better and my instinct to just sit back and think  "It's more a -- damn! I hope I can be that skilled some day."

I have a handful of "online" friends.  Some aquaintances but mostly just people.  Those friends came to me via preconception.com many moons ago, they commented on my diary.  I commented back and a friendship was formed.  I honestly believe that if someone commented on my blog every single day, I'd have to at least know what the heck they were doing...stalking?  What?  That said, I tried and I think I accomplished commenting to everyone who replied to my post and any other of the posts relating to it.  And, in doing that....I was exhauasted.  We closed our daycare 2 weeks ago and I don't have a regular job other than my once weekly column in a local paper, but I do have mono and exausted, but not too exhausted to answer comments but it was really hard.  I tried to reply to everyone, through the naps and all, but I see how difficult it was.  That said, again....if someone commented every day.....I'd have to be at least a little bit curious.

I'm not very good at proof-reading so the person who mentioned that I confused the words "can't" and "can" was truly a typing error.  I say it alot, my brain thinks faster than my fingers can type and then my fingers get going....

Anyway, I'm going to go check to see if there were any more specifics that I meant to comment on and pray I don't hit the blasted close button...ack.

This:

"It is very clear to me after having read everything that this was about
being *ignored* by people. The blogger you mention, Jerri Ann, wrote
this after several people had commented on her original post."

"So when Jerri Ann didn't get any attention from the big bloggers by
trying to be a part of their community, perhaps Jerri Ann thought the
best way to get some attention was to link to a bunch of them with a
controversial question - essentially calling them out. And that post
did get attention, plenty of it, and ever since then I feel like Jerri
Ann have been trying to back away from what she wrote. Perhaps because
she realised this was not a good way to make friends in the blogging
world"

It wasn't about attention, I promise you, of course I had wondered, of course I had felt jilted but it really had never dawned on me that their writing was different now than it was say 2 years ago.  I'm sure I didn't notice because I've read all along and watched their lives evolve.  He only remembers times when I would sit at the computer and laugh until I pee'd my pants over a certain persons posts, night after night, i was howling with laughter.  And, he wondered why I didn't talk about that particular blogger or 2 anymore.  And, the natural answer to him (and obviously it made sense to me) was that "their life as a non-money-making blogger is much different than their money-making-blogger and does that not in turn affect their blogging?

I used Dooce as a reference in my other post and again, I mean no disrespect but one night about 2 years ago, my husband I sat in the floor and read Blogger X's (not revealing a name this time) archives for hours.  I mean for hours and hours and hours...way into the morning.  Then, I was talking about folks that I saw in photos at Blogher 08 and such and he wanted to know why I hadn't read him anything from her blog anymore.  For one, I do still read her blog, all the time, every post.  But, she writes in so many places now that her talent is so spread out that I miss the greatness of it when it was all contained in one or two places.  I promise I do not mean that to be rude, I mean that to be the ultimate compliment, she is talented enough to keep a man awake half the night when he had to go to work the next day, rolling in tears laughing and now she has been writing responsibilities, that's talent and I mean it as a compliment.  But, that was where and how that entire post came to fruition.

And this:

" I think she put into words publicly what a lot of people wonder or feel on a personal level, at home with their laptops."

Thanks.  I've always been one to open my mouth for a group when I shouldn't.  But, again, this wasn't even something I wondered initially.  I'm not copping out, because when my husband put the question out there, I jumped on the bandwagon.  And, that's what happens with me.    

This:

"In fact, being very new to blogging, I haven't read Jerri Ann"  

Most folks have never read me.  There's a reason for that.  I'm not popular.  Why is that?  I dunno.  I have a few thoughts.  One, I'm not as talented as many of the more popular writers, plain and simple (my newspaper gig has a good editor), two, I'm a lazy blogger, I don't like to and from and back and forth, too much work, and three, I've jumped around a lot.  My blog has been hosted in several different places with several different names.  So, with that said, most of my readers are people from days at preconception.com and that follow me from the local paper.  That's why you haven't read anything I've written.  Normally when I write something that gets attention, it ends up being something that gets way out of kilter like this.  I didn't do it for attention, I didn't do it for any reason other than when my husband (a male and a competor) threw the question out there, I ran with it.

Finally and I'll shut up.  My comment regarding jealousy and guilt......I've basically been brought up and seen this to be true..."the guilty dog barks first"...so the analogy about the crack wasn'nt relative to what I was trying to say....it doesn't mean that I think every person that responded were jealous....it meant that the "guilty dog barked first" and that was me.  I was guilty of being jealous....that is not how it reads to me even now when I go back to it, but again, that wwas my intent.  And, I think there are many people out there who sit and wonder "why not me?" they just weren't the one to "bark" about it first.  I was.

Wait, and I promise this is the last thing, did my post get attention, sure it did, for about three days and now everyone's gone about their merry way.  The blog that got the attention is not the blog that I make money from....so I had no reason to write it just for attention or to make myself more popular in the "make money blogging world" because you should have noticed, there are no ads on that blog and only a review or two here and there.  That blog is my blog, my space, my pesrsonality, just me.   

Jerri Ann

Beautiful post, Rita. I think there's another aspect to jealousy among bloggers that is worth mentioning: jealousy of community.

It's interesting. A few weeks ago, there was an Eco Mom Carnival announced, and most of my blog friends were participating. In that moment, I felt excluded and sort of jealous of all the other bloggers.

In retrospect, it was beyond stupid. First of all, the Eco Mom Carnival was about empowering mothers, not about excluding non-mothers. Second of all, several non moms (including a couple guys) participated in the carnival!

When the carnival was posted, I quickly realized how silly I was to feel excluded and jealous of the others for getting to participate in this, what I perceived to be, an exclusionary group.

It's tricky. How do you empower a particular group (in this case Eco Moms) without making other groups feel excluded?

It's a different sort of jealousy, I know than the jealous of fame and money, or the jealous of writing. It's more the feeling jealous because all the other bloggers have inside jokes. All the other bloggers know each other and have met in real life, and link to each other all the time. And it sucks to feel excluded and outside of the community.

Personally, on my blog, I make a concerted effort to respond to every single comment. But I'm dealing with a much smaller traffic stream. I get about 20 comments per day, which is a commenting community I'm THRILLED to have, but it's very managable. If I had the 50-100 comments per day that someone like Mir has, it would be impossible.

I think it's valid that people feel jealous of the community. It's a great community, and like, hey, I'll admit, that I sometimes feel a little jealous of the people who actually GET TO BE FRIENDS! with the Wonderful Mir and Susan of The Beautiful Shoes. They seem like awesome people!!

But like, I also get that Mir and Susan can't be personally friends with everyone amongst their legions of fans. Cuz like ... they have jobs and children and husbands and stuff.

So ... if you're jealous of the community among the popular blogs, you create your own community. I have made awesome, spectacular friends through blogging. Some of them are super popular. Some of them get very few hits. But, they're my friends. They're my community. And they're amazing.

http://arduousblog.blogspot.com/

I love Rita's comparison of the blogosphere and the kids from Fame (now I know why I was drawn to blogging - and it's not just the chance to wear legwarmers again because no one can see what you're wearing).  I'm a newbie, but have been writing for a long time.  Jealousy can be poisonous and disabling or it can be the biggest motivator to get up and put your pen/pixels where your mouth is.  I've finally started blogging having wanted to for ages, and now I've had a chance to look around and see how good you all are, it makes me want to raise my game! 

What Kate Did Next http://katelordbrown.blogspot.com/ ( http://katelordbrown.blogspot.com/ )

 I really didn't think that this was an attack on one blogger.  In fact, being very new to blogging, I haven't read Jerri Ann nor was I privy to the email/post of which you spoke. I viewed it like a commentary on the collective jealousy in the blogging world.  The jealousy that always seems like it is slightly brewing beneath the surface.  

 Another valid point to make here, I think, is the fact that all moms (whom this seems to be more of a problem for) are looking for a way to make their lives a little better.  It is a tough world, and a tougher economy.  When they can see that others are making even a small living off of something that they are already doing, something that they enjoy, its hard not to say...... "Hey, I want a piece of that pie."  Even if it means just making enough to cover the change in gas prices over the last year, it still is a benefit to the family, to life.  When you put it in those terms, sometimes the jealousy isn't so hard to understand. 

Corina Fiore from www.dtemama.com ( http://www.dtemama.com )

(weighing words carefully, trying to figure out how to articulate this)

I used Jerri Ann as an example because regardless of her approach, I think she put into words publicly what a lot of people wonder or feel on a personal level, at home with their laptops.  Snoskred, I think your comment was valid and good, so this isn't so much a response to what you wrote as a caution that we won't be using this forum to take down Jerri Ann for her actions.  I personally didn't agree with them, but I can have a problem with actions without having a problem with the person. I don't know and won't pretend to know another blogger that I haven't had an extended personal conversation with.

That said, I did choose to write about jealousy, envy, wistfulness (great word, Kelli), etc. because I think it's a very natural emotion and not necessarily a bad one if it gets you in gear and inspires you to reach higher. I love that line about competition and community co-existing.  I often see the blogosphere as a little less cheesy version of the kids in Fame - all talented in different ways, jealous of each other, riffing off each other, creating something greater than the sum of its parts.

Surrender, Dorothy ( http://surrenderdorothy.typepad.com )- When I was your age, we just let them ride in the back window.

Rita Arens is a contributing editor for BlogHer -- Mommy & Family.

I don't think Jerri Ann's post linking to 87 blogs (some were repeated, though) and emails to apparently half the blogging world was about jealousy - not the kind you mention in this post. Here's my opinion on it - note, it is just my opinion.

It is very clear to me after having read everything that this was about being *ignored* by people. The blogger you mention, Jerri Ann, wrote this after several people had commented on her original post.

I still read a few of the big names ones and I even comment on their
blogs a lot just to see if they ever comment back. They don’t. I
commented on this one person, we will call her “not rich from blogging
but making a decent enough living and popular enough to be invited to
talk shows” for 30 straight days. (This was last summer sometime, who
knows where I got all that free time). But 30 days straight and this
person NEVER responded to me.

So when Jerri Ann didn't get any attention from the big bloggers by trying to be a part of their community, perhaps Jerri Ann thought the best way to get some attention was to link to a bunch of them with a controversial question - essentially calling them out. And that post did get attention, plenty of it, and ever since then I feel like Jerri Ann have been trying to back away from what she wrote. Perhaps because she realised this was not a good way to make friends in the blogging world. It is essentially slapping them in the face hoping that maybe they'll notice you exist and want to be friends with you.

In a later post where Jerri Ann responded to some of the comments, she said

There’s no way to say this without sound mean and hateful, but here
goes anyway, if you are so popular (in the blog world) that you can
even send a "thanks" to the folks who read and enjoy your writing, then
most definitely you are part of one of those clicks that sits across
the lunchroom, giggling without even bothering to notice that someone
out of your click just complimented you on your new haircut, shoes,
outfit.

I'm assuming she meant "can't" instead of can based on the context. Correct me if I am wrong on that Jerri Ann.

Again, this says to me she felt ignored by people. And hey, I don't consider myself a popular blogger by any stretch of the imagination but frankly even with my level of "popular" I find it really difficult to keep on top of all the emails and comments and everything that comes to me as a surprise as a part of owning a blog. When you are even a semi - popular blogger there simply are not enough hours in the day to keep everyone who wants a piece of you happy.

I generally get 50+ blog related emails a day. I also host blogs for bloggers which generates a bunch of emails on top of that and those emails take priority over the other ones because I need to answer their questions ASAP. Things get lost in the shuffle, I never get time to respond to comments individually anymore. Heck, I never even get time to clear out my inbox. The amount of spam that comes to me via my blog (hey, post about my product, post about my event, post about this) is increasing daily.

When I first installed Wordpress I decided I didn't want to install that plugin that automatically emails people thanking them for their comments - it seems impersonal. But is it better to be impersonal than have your readers feeling like they are ignored, like Jerri Ann clearly feels?

I'm sorry Jerri Ann - if you're reading this.. Sorry that you feel ignored by people. Sorry that you believe that bloggers who can't thank their readers are part of a clique that you are not part of. Sorry that you think the best way to get attention from people is to send them unsolicited emails with questions that are going to insult them and link to a whole bunch of blogs in your post. I'm sorry you're not adult enough to admit that you knew at least some people would find that question insulting when you wrote it. I mean, you had to know that, right?

If you want community, my advice to you is seek out the bloggers just starting out, those who do have the time to respond to you, those who will appreciate your comments because they don't get 42,000 or so on a post. Be nice to them, and you'll find they be nice to you in return.

I've been nothing but accepted by people in the blogosphere, but that may be because I am not expecting every blogger I comment on the post of to drop everything and get on their knees thanking me for reading their blog. I am realistic - I take what people give when they can give it, and I am grateful for that.

I accept that bloggers are human and not Superwoman (or man). I am grateful for their posts and I love those moments of connection that happen when I read what they write that inspires me to comment (though I don't have as much time for that as I once did either).

I thrive on the stuff you're talking about in this post Rita - the riffing, the inspiration from other bloggers, seeing someone who has written something brilliantly and wanting to improve my own writing as a result. I don't earn a living from blogging nor do I earn a living from hosting blogs for people - but it is very rewarding all the same.

I freely admit to blog envy sometimes, but like you it's more admiration than pure jealousy. It just makes me want to do better and be better than I am. It's a motivator. There will always be people who spite other people's success. Jealousy in and of itself is a pretty useless emotion. It makes more sense to channel it into being productive.

 First of all, I must say that I really don't find this particular discussion a "cat fight" as I have seen it classified.  I think it is a legitimate discussion of the business of blogging and the natural human reaction to feel "wistful" about others (their talent or their "salary"). 

Secondly, I think that, although the lives of those who have "made it" in blogging MAY have changed, does not change the fact that they still can be clever, they still can be poignant, they still can have something to say.  

I think that this issue though, might be a case of "keeping up with the Joneses".   To envy the success of another blogger can take your focus away from your own blog and your own authentic self.  What I love about the blogs I read is that they make me laugh, they make me cry, they make me think, and they share the human condition.  Now, if I were to focus on the money that the blog makes, it would take away from the writing. I might also miss alot of great writing out there.

To emulate the success of others could cause one to try to be something other than oneself. 

The point of personal blogging is to find YOUR voice, your writing skill, and to share that within a community.  This may involve trying other bloggers writing styles on as your own.  Afterall, Natalie Goldberg makes a good point in saying "We are carried on the backs of all writiers who came before us."  It could help us to find our true voice. 

But wishing, nay pining, for the swag of the so called "power-bloggers"  well, I think you are just asking for tough case of writers block or mediocre writing.  

Corina Fiore from www.dtemama.com ( http://www.dtemama.com )

I <3 you. 

<a href="http://www.cheekysweetie.com">Cheeky Sweetie-just the mom-next-door</a>

PS Anyone know why the link that automatically comes up at the bottom of my comments doesn't work? 

Heh.

Great post, Rita. I think the word that many folks here are grasping for is the word "wistful". I do associate jealousy with a negative connotation. However, "wistful" implies that you would like to have something for yourself, but not at the expense of the person already in possession of it.

I have been both wistful AND jealous. And equally inspired to do more because of both.

Kelli Oliver George

http://rancidraves.blogspot.com/

http://abooblog.blogspot.com/

And I think I officially ADORE Mir's comment above.  

I really think this could make an awesome session at BlogHer next year.  A more in depth discussion at jealousy among bloggers and WHY we feel that the jealousy a) exists in the first place and/or b) has to be such a negative thing.  Sure, I've been jealous during my blogging tenure, but I've found it FAR more productive to use those energies to better my own blog and push towards new goals than towards dogging bloggers I might be jealous of.  

Seriously... Elisa, there is a lot of fodder here! 

Marilyn Porter
slackermama . com ( http://slackermama.com )

I find that often something that would be described one way in the non-internet world is described another way in the blogworld.  There are bloggers whose writing I admire very much. (Like Rita, I started my blog to force myself to write more often and improve the quality of my writing.)

But whether it's a sentence that Steinbeck wrote or Flotsam (for example) blogged, I wouldn't described my feeling as jealousy.  It's more a -- damn! I hope I can be that skilled some day.

 As for the fame and money part, when it comes to pure blogging for yourself, those come with hard work and luck, and I can only control one of those.

Anne Glamore

Tales From My Tiny Kingdom ( http://www.mytinykingdom.com/ )

MomsAgainstBullying

This on-line Jealousy is starting to sound a lot like cyber bullying ladies.  I just recently started a blog to help parents and educators to come together to finally put a stop to bullying in our elementary schools and beyond, but it sounds like we adult women need a reality check. 

Bullying is the act of putting some one down to make yourself feel better.  Bullying is not about anger, but about POWER over others.  Bullies  crave power like a drug.  At school the bully (girl or boy) goes out to the playground and finds an easy target to get a quick fix.  Sounds like the cyber bully is going on-line for a quick fix.  It's shameful!  I wish you all great success!

Nothing wrong with jealousy -- but it comes down to what you do with that emotion. If I start feeling jealous of someone else, dare I say another blogger?, I try to step back and think about what it says about me -- Why am I wanting what they have? Why am I unhappy with my current situation?

And truly, what positive thing can I do about it?

Turn jealousy into inspiration. 

 Motherhood Uncensored  ( http://www.motherhooduncensored.net )

I think it's important to note that blogging is an area in which one can be envious of another's success without begrudging them their acheivements. It's not the same as coveting your neighbor's wife, where unless you're into "Big Love" type relationships, wanting what he has means wanting him to *not* have it.

Do I want success? Of course, though I have to say that for me, finding comrades in this life-balancing battle is much more of a marker of success than material gain. Success is individually defined, which complicates the whole discussion, and we have to acknowledge that our ideas of success change, too. I started my blog just because I needed a place to talk: even if I hadn't brushed my teeth yet, or if I was having a bad social anxiety day, or if I couldn't get dressed until the dryer finished, or whatever would keep me from seeing my RL friends. I really had no intention of networking, other than linking to some of my favorite blogs-expecting nothing back in return, just wanting to share my tastes with anyone who happened to stumble upon my blog. So, in that respect, I have success-I have been able to achieve what was my initial goal. But as I became more active in the community, my goals shifted, and networking in a more personal way than ever was possible in any other interest I've ever persued became my measure of success.

But wanting that fellowship doesn't mean that I don't want it for others. Wanting something someone else has, and wanting it for yourself don't have to be mutually exclusive here in the blogosphere. I'd like to think that if my measure of success ever shifts to monetary gain that assessment wouldn't change. I'd like to believe that I would still look at the success of others and instead of feeling like I should have what they have, I would think I can achieve what they have, too, if I put in the work required. It's just a subtle shift in verbiage, but a huge difference in attitude. 

There will always be trailblazers who mark the general path for others. Some of us are blessed or lucky or talented enough to be among them. Others are just as lucky that the path has been marked for them to use as a general guide. But our specific path is unique to each of us, alone. That, to me, is the biggest lesson in blogging-there are startling similarities and parrellels in our lives, but we still each stand as a unique voice. And I don't think any amount of money is worth changing mine to a carbon copy of someone else's. My own voice is too important to lose, and so is everyone else's.

<a href="http://www.cheekysweetie.com">Cheeky Sweetie-just the mommyblogger-next-door</a>

I'll admit, I get jealous. Sure I do, when I see the swag other bloggers get, the writing ability I'll probably never have...

Jealousy isn't bad, it's what you do with. Do you use to motivate yourself to be better, or do you use it to tear others down? As women we're taught that it's wrong to be competitive, and jealousy follows that.

Available Light ( http://kathy-p.blogspot.com ) & Five Dollar Radio ( http://fivedollarradio.blogspot.com/ )

... Jerri Ann, I watched this unfold when your query first went out, and I'm reading Rita's post and the comments here now, and I've been shaking my head through the entire thing.

in my opinion, feeling offended usually accompanies feeling guilty.

Really? So if someone asks me how long I've been smoking crack, and I get offended because I don't use drugs, it's because... I feel guilty and am secretly using drugs? I just find that conclusion of offense = guilt really out there. Though I hope that doesn't offend you. ;)

Anyway, my actual point: I think the "offense" came along for multiple reasons, and my assumption is that you meant no harm, of course, but I can also understand why people got upset. Heather Armstrong is in a different class than most working bloggers; while her story is a fascinating one, it's not at all typical. To lump her in with the rest of us does a disservice to everyone involved; it's like taking a poll of of "rich supermarket checkout clerks" wherein one of them happens to have also won the state lottery.

I also think that -- having been the subject of a lot of speculation, myself -- it's natural to bristle at the implication (real or imagined) that either you make more money than you really do OR that you can't possibly be earning what you do for what is hard work. I have no idea what propels these discussions, whether it's jealousy or ignorance or whatever, but bloggers' incomes are suddenly being scrutinized and I've got to say, I don't know many people who enjoy that. Furthermore, the implication that making money somehow "changes everything" takes us back to the lump-'em-all-together model. Very few people have moved to a lavish lifestyle via blogging.

Thank you, Rita, for pointing out that there's a difference between making money as a personal blogger and making money as a freelance writer, too. That's another victim of lumping information together that I think needs to be more carefully separated. Jerri Ann, I think another source of possible offense (unintended, I'm sure) with your inquiry is that many of us who do make a living doing this do it primarily in working for others, just like everybody else. Just because I make my living as a writer doesn't mean that my personal blog is now totally different. Why would it be?

As for the overall jealousy issue... I have to say that in my opinion, there's no greater privilege than being able to surround myself with people who are just as good or better than me at this writing thing. I'm not going to waste my time wondering if it's fair or unfair, I'm going to keep my eyes on that nice high bar and feel blessed to be surrounded by so many talented folks. It's great motivation.

--
Mir Kamin
(BlogHer Mommy & Family contributing editor)

Personal: Woulda Coulda Shoulda ( http://wouldashoulda.com/ )

Having it all with less: Want Not ( http://wantnot.net/ )

Great point! :) 

Caroline

http://morningsidemom.wordpress.com/

Anne Lamott's classic- Bird By Bird- has a chapter, Jealousy. I highly recommend it to everyone who has commented here. When someone else is doing what you do, it's hard not to wonder/wish for some of their good fortune to come your way.

I'm a writer who has a blog. I see blogs having enormous potential- some of it financial, but ultimately it has to be a place where I enjoy going to write. I think each person has to decide for him/herself what their definition of success is. For me, being successful means being in motion. As long as I am actively writing I am successful. I'm well aware that that point of view might not land me on the bestseller list.

I've attended two arts residencies in the last two years with artists of all mediums and jealousy always comes up. We are, after all, human.

Dawn Maria

Method to the Madness
http://www.dawnmaria.com

You wrote:

It seems like the people
who say this are convinced that such kerfuffles only and could only happen
amongst women, but I have to say: Believing that mostly means one has
internalized the sexist messaging that terms disagreements between women as
"catfights" but between men as "vigorous
debate."

I couldn't agree more.

Vered DeLeeuw

http://momgrind.com/

"It would be great if we could get used to competition and community not being mutually exclusive."

I wish I'd written it! :-)

Halushki.com

I really think we marginalize ourselves if we allow ourselves to internalize the "catfight" moniker and think that only women experience jealousy, competitiveness, backstabbing, or even just disagreements and debate.

I wrote a post about it just before BlogHer called Internalizing the Catfight Moniker ( http://homepage.mac.com/elisa_camahort/iblog/C7882... ), andit's just as true after BlogHer!

Elisa Camahort Page
BlogHer
elisa@blogher.com

My BlogHer profile ( http://www.blogher.com/haystackprofile/viewprofile... ) truly shows you everything I do online...Check it out!!

A little late to the party here but wanted to quickly point out that my own little blogosphere community involves men as well as women, and I have to say that jealousy exists everywhere. Men feel it too. Can't name names, but I've seen jealousy and it came from men and was directed towards men. 

This is not a female thing. It's a human-nature thing. 

Vered DeLeeuw

http://momgrind.com/

You  know, we could wrangle this bull for ages.  There were only a few people who actually understood what I was trying to ask without feeling offended.  And, in my opinion, feeling offended usually accompanies feeling guilty.  I tried several times over to give examples of what I was trying to say and ask.  Only some of you wanted to hear what I had to say, you were too busy getting angry to be open enough to know that I meant no harm at all.

What I make from blogging is simply enough for my husband to get back and forth to work.  And, it doesn't even cover that now with gas prices.  That's it.  I enjoy it.  We've owned the daycare and that was my baby and I made less money blogging because I was drowning in daycare business, but the fact is if I compare my life right now, to one that I figure it would be like if I simply made 2 times as much as I do now, my life would be excruciating different.

So, if I then start to wonder what our life would be like if I made the bulk of our income sitting at the computer doing what I love (trust me, daycare was great, but it was also not great) and spending time with the people I love, I can come up with many ways that our lives would change.  

So, then I look at our life if my husband was able to quit work because I made enough for him to pursue some projects of his own without being the breadwinner, and I can tell you that our life would be distinctively different.

Lastly, since Dooce is the most well known blogger around as far as I'm concerned, do you not think that her blogging content is different now than it was when she was new blogging, writing about co-workers and living life.  She had what most folks would call a normal 9 to 5 hours doing work she loved and then.....well we all know what happened.

Now, she is famous.  She rarely writes about the "hard times" anymore that were part of her content early on, when she was single, etc.  Her life is terribly different.  And that brings me to my question which was this "if she became popular writing about her regular life including being Dooced, then how does she maintain the readership now that her life is not as plain as it was back then?

And, you answer is going to be because she made friends through her blog and they have enjoyed watching her life evolve.  And, my question to you is this, "how real is her life to that of most bloggers?" and I think we agree that very few live the way she does but they still real..and I  know, because they made friends....I could go on forever, I'm not.  

I have/had no intention of disrespecting Dooce.  She really is a great writer with a great gig.  But, that was the only analogy I could come up with off the top of my head.  Actually, I just thought of another one that I have witnessed her blog, her life, her fame happen and I promise you, her writing now is no where close to what it was just a year or 2 ago.  And I don't mean the quality of her writing, I mean the content of writing. 

I have this post about Kate Gosselin that illistrates this type of jealousy rather well. Kate Gosselin, if you don't know yet, had twins and then sextuplets and then her husband got laid off. Basically her lifed sucked. 

 Well, women were pretty positive and supportive about her when her life was wretched and insurmountable and poverty stricken. They were sympathetic. 

Then Kate got a TV show. Then the jealousy started on the blog. Why does she deserve all this good stuff when my life is still wretched? She's not that great! It's only 8 kids, why doesn't she get a job. A TV show isn't a real job!

 My new theory is that women hate other women if they are more successsul. That's why women rarely brag about promotions or raises to their friends (as noted in The Feminine Mistake by Leslie Bennett's). Men are much more accepting of men making money and getting career success - because they feel equally entitled. Women, in general, feel somewhat unentitlted to and unworthy of success and we dont have the recipe for it and it makes us a little bitchy. 

 We should change this. There's enough to go around. 

So Sioux Me ( http://www.traceesioux.blogspot.com )So Sioux Me
Empower Yourself
Empower Your Daughter

Blog Fabulous ( http://www.blogfabulous.com )
A woman's relationship with the

This was an amazing post.  You've just written what has been running through my mind since I started blogging in January.  I try to take every twinge of envy and turn it into something positive.  To get in the game with those I think are better than me so I can move up a level.

Thank you for this article.  Amazing.

merlotmom

Such an excellent post. Rita, you are addressing such an important point - outloud.

The negativity of women bringing other women down is so disheartening. And so unneccessary. I kinda posted a little bit about this already in my BlogHer write up (sorry for the recap) but my theory is that some of the cattiness is an unfortunate reaction to women not being used to women succeeding. Women are used to having to compete, and they assume there is not room for everyone to be successful or at the top. I went to a women's college and saw how this can be the initial reaction to being in a powerful all women's environment. And then, as days progress and women realize they can support one another and no one is going to tell them they suck, the walls come down. But we didn't have that luxury over only a couple days at BlogHer. Not to mention, we are used to hiding behind our computers while we celebrate our blogs. This was real life, we stood their with our blogs on our sleeves and so its gonna be a fairly vulnerable couple days.

Anyway, we should be celebrating ANY success ANY blogger has. Every success the more well known bloggers have, means one more door opens for us newbies just starting out. Cheers to you guys, cheers to making blogging mainstream, cheers to women getting it done.

And one more thing. I don't care HOW successful bigtime bloggers might get. They still have issues with their kids, have bad days, feel fat, can't start their cars, lose family members, have babies, and on it goes. They have every right to keep on posting the way they have been and keep on being successful. Thats one thing that struck me. Here I follow some bloggers and know so much about their lives, but at Blogher, they sat next to me at breakfast, regular people, as tired and as in need of coffee as I was. Stop building these women up to tear them down. Sheesh.

Ok, I'll step gingerly off my soapbox now. Great post Rita!

Caroline

http://morningsidemom.wordpress.com/

I got that email too and my first thought was that she was confusing fame with popularity or perhaps success. Or maybe just longevity. I can imagine that it's tough for someone who's been blogging for years to see newer writers who seem to just jump right in and find an audience. But you know, that's life. In any industry there are prodigies who squeak past the middle management. 

Perhaps it's because so many bloggers look at this as a social platfform or community, and not an industry, that's where a lot of the social analogies come in - popularity, cliquishness, mean girls, queen bees blah blah blah. I find it all a little exhausting.

Like you I tend to be jealous of sentences and thoughts and ideas.  And if I find myself jealous, I try to harness that and put it towards being a better writer. Seething is a pretty useless way to spend one's time. 

And Deb and Jane? I am hugging you from afar.

Mom-101 ( http://mom-101.blogspot.com )

Cool Mom Picks.com ( http://coolmompicks.com )

of other people's writing [ie, sentences]. I read blogs like that of Maggie from okayfinedammit.com and am just in awe. I love her dearly, but *I* want to be able to write like her!! (:

I'm also jealous of those that are able to make money from their blogs, because to me, if I were able to make a decent number, not even as much as an actual 'job' but enough by my own standards, I would feel more justified in the amount of time I spend doing it. Seems that it would be a better reason than just 'I love it.' Which I wholeheartedly do. 

But the whole high school thing? I don't get it, and I don't think I ever will.

- Maria

http://immoralmatriarch.com

I was nodding my head in agreement all through your post and when I got to debontherocks comment, my headnodding went postal.   I've been reading a lot of the negative posts about BlogHer and Mommybloggers and A-list Bloggers and Alpha Bloggers and...and...and....  We women do something odd to ourselves and each other when we get into a competitive situation.  I've seen it in high-level business meetings where I was one of maybe two or three women, among a group of CEOs.  The guys could sit at the conference table hating each other's guts and still work well together.  The women, on the other hand, wouldn't play unless everyone was making nice.  That's not a statement implying that men are better at business than women.  It's just a statement that we, men and women, approach our relationships, including those that are professional, in very different ways.  If we can accept that about ourselves and not insist that We All Get Along, we would be much better off.  When I think of the amount of intellectual and emotional energy that's been invested in this mommyblogger/a-list blogger topic over the years--jeeze, we could fuel a Challenger going to the moon.  Instead, we're dissipating our energies and, therefore, our successes.  The world is not fair; the playing field is not even; we need to accept that and go about our business.

By Jane

http://byjane.blogspot.com

http://midlifebloggers.com 

Jealousy is a very natural emotion, but it is also misused to diminish women's feelings of competitiveness, analysis, and outright criticism.  Those things are okay for women to put out there too.  I think we have been so conditioned to feel responsible for everyone's happiness, that if we have a thought that makes someone uncomfortable, the culture immediately labels it as jealousy.  This happens to and by women much more than men.  "She's just jealous."  It would be great if we could get used to competition and community not being mutually exclusive.

The Saturday Night Live writers aren't jealous of the people they skewer; nor are Huffington Post writers; and nor is Dara Torres as she trains to swim for a gold medal.  Whether analysis or attack is performed with humor or with seriousness, its all part of how we understand and reinvent our culture, and it usually isn't just jealousy.  Analyzing or even running down competition isn't just jealousy.

I think writers by nature are predisposed to this type of critical thinking and are drawn to communicate their thoughts.  It's no wonder we see a lot of it--and not because we are reading the blogs of scorned women.

 However, i am jealous you've been to Blogher Business.  I've never gone - yet!  ;)

Deb

www.debontherocks.com ( http://www.debontherocks.com/ )

blog

www.3smartgirlz.com ( http://www.3smartgirlz.com )

consulting

Could've, should've, would've are the roots of my jealousy. I could've started blogging, I should've been more proactive and cutting edge so that i would've been where those of whom I am sometimes jealous are. Instead of letting this green-eyed monster destroy me and the community of women who give me strength, I hope that I can use it to inspire me to be better. There is room for all of us to find a voice and an audience on this great worldwide web.... I hope.

http://ninemonthsofhell.blogspot.com/

I made a tweet a few months back about feeling like the blogging world was akin to high school popularity contests.I got some replies from other bloggers feeling the same thing. and it made me wonder to myself, "If it's feeling like that, what am I doing to contribute to that feeling? I didn't like it in high school so what's going on here and now and what can I do to change my feelings about it."

And then I remembered why I write. Not for free stuff, though it's nice. Not for lots of links, though they're cool. Not for even a lot of friends, though I cherish every friendship I've made. 

I write because it's who I am. It's what I do. I share things and it's great when people comment but even when people don't comment, I FEEL BETTER when I write. It's just who I am. 

And so, when I get one of those feelings, like when I was grumpy that everyone was going to BlogHer and I wasn't ( http://stopdropandblog.com/2008/07/15/so-everyones... ), I remind myself that I'm living my life the best way that I know how (and, in that specific case, it was taking my family to camp and celebrating our faith and our family and it was exactly what was needed at the time for the lot of us). I can't do anything more than be the best I can be for my family... and if that doesn't interest the world, that's a-okay by me. 

Because I happen to think I'm super awesome. ;)

FireMom from Stop, Drop & Blog ( http://stopdropandblog.com/ )

Also tackling adoption issues from the birth parent perspective at the birth/first parent blog ( http://birthparents.adoptionblogs.com ) and, on a personal level, at The Chronicles of Munchkin Land ( http://thechroniclesofmunchkinland.com ).

Ah jealousy, a lot of what I'm blogging about and commenting about elsewhere comes back to this and comes back to what's Fair, capital F. I'm all about justice and who DESERVES what and whether someone has EARNED it. If they have (according to my rules and regulations) great; if they haven't, they're forever scorned (and I'm a Scorpio, watch out!)

But lately, I'm finally finaaaaaaalllly realizing, that's not the only way to measure. Yes, maybe good things sometimes do happen to (if not bad) "undeserving" people, but the more life I live the more I believe in karma and fate - things do happen for a reason... so she got X (new car, blogging fame, 10,000 bloggy hits, a great hubby) and you didn't - it hurts, oh it hurts but... at the very same second, someone else is eyeing what YOU'RE getting and wanting it / wishing it for themselves.

 I'm not trying to be over pollyanna - I say it because it's true. I am dating (and will soon be marrying ) a great guy who first met me at a party when I was recently divorced, bitter of all the happy couples with babies there, and floundering in my career. He wanted me then, at literally my snarkiest worst.  I had NO idea anyone saw me.

p.s. I was a journalist so blogging for blogging sake vs. blogging for money/publication sake is something I'm thinking a lot about. One of the things I LOVE about it, probably the thing I love the BEST is the community, the way I'm on a daily (hourly?) basis discovering all these amazingly talented writers and thinkers and feelers out there in the blogosphere who aren't "professionals" but are among the best talent I've seen (and I'm lucky enough to have worked with some renowned publications.) It's inspiring, truly. So if you think "yah, but no one's  jealous of little old me" you're wrong, I am. Or rather, I'm astounded, impressed, and awed by you.  Truly.

washy || http://washwords.com/words || washwords.dc@gmail.com

Jealous, yes sometimes but I am just a newbie. I know I have a lot to learn, and a lot to prove before I get the status, mad writing skills and money that other, cooler bloggers have.  Hey but I feel I am doing pretty good for only blogging since April- an interview for a local magazine, a job as editor for a mom site, having my blog post as features and actually deleting requests from people! 

The only issue I have is that jealous feelings runs in all areas of life- I am sure Gossip blogggers get a little green-eyed watching Perez on TV interviewing big celebs or dream about the money he recieves.  I bet my local news anchor dreams one day of touring the globe like Christine Amanpour.    

~Susan                                                                                                                   

http://lilmomthatcould.com/