Karl Lagerfeld Says No One Wants to See "Round" Women
by Susan WagnerNot too long ago, designer Mark Fast caught our attention for including plus-sized models in his London Fashion Week runway show. Fast's decision inspired some really interesting discussion, both here at BlogHer and elsewhere, about everything from what constitutes a "plus" size to why couture matters. For the most part, though, everyone agreed that Fast's choice to show his clothes on women with actual curves was a step in the right direction.
Everyone, that is, except Karl Lagerfeld.
This week, the German magazine Focus published an interview in which Lagerfeld dismisses the use of plus sized models, calling it "absurd." The fashion industry, Lagerfeld told Focus, relies on "dreams and illusions, and no one wants to see round women."
"These are fat mummies sitting with their bags of crisps in front of the television, saying that thin models are ugly," Lagerfeld says, adding that these women are just jealous of the models.
Oh, Karl. For heaven's sake.
What got Lagerfeld on this particular soap box? No, it wasn't too many years of wearing those sunglasses and leather gloves constantly; it was German magazine Brigitte's decision to stop using models. Instead, the magazine will feature real women, says editor Andreas Lebert: "We will show women who have their own identity, the 18-year-old A-level student, the company chairwoman, the musician, the footballer."
Lagerfeld isn't down with that, unfortunately. Instead, he defends the models, saying that "Ninety percent of them are quite normal, properly proportioned girls with less fat and more muscles, who also eat pizzas and burgers." And while we're not picking on models, thin or otherwise, to assert that every woman who would like to see someone closer to her size is a "fat mummy" doesn't really make us want to defend Karl Lagerfeld.
We're not the only ones: Twirlit's Sherrie Gulmahamad is also rolling her eyes at Lagerfeld's pronouncements.
I don’t take exception to his idea that “round women” don’t mesh well with the dreamy fashion world. I take exception to calling us outspoken ones “fat mummies”! Lagerfeld (who is openly gay) can only see the female world as divided into his mannequins and to chubby potato chip-eating complainers. Plenty of healthywomen who think the size zero phenomenon is sick AREN’T potato chip couch surfers. I’m sure without much prodding you can find outspoken athletes, female politicians, philosophers and feminists, who aren’t “fat mummies”. Let us never forget that recently two supermodels wasted away to nothing and died of anorexia.
This raises a rather dicey question. Do the gay men controlling the fashion world also control the messaging about *our* bodies – and is it wrong, considering gay men aren’t really interested in our bodies in the first place?
Gulmahamad's question is an interesting one -- more interesting, perhaps, than Lagerfeld's uninformed assertion that women are down on super thin models because we're all essentially fat and lazy. Not because we're looking for a way to make fashion more than just dreams and illusions.
BlogHer CE avflox has an insider's perspective on the fashion world, and comes to a slightly different conclusion about Lagerfeld and the fashion industry.
Oh, but this is standard Karl, isn't it? He lives in a perpetual state of angina over society's murderous attacks on the skinny and the fur-loving.
I modeled when I was younger and I always thought that the whole point was that we had a nondescript body, and thus did not detract from the clothes. We were walking clothes hangers.
The fantasy and illusion is found in the genius of a collection and the portrayal of a specific lifestyle, not in the persons wearing its items. Karl should be concerned about how much emphasis is being placed on the bodies as opposed to his clothes and do something about that instead of making such a fuss. After all, this is his livelihood.
Focus, if they integrate different body types appropriately, is taking a step toward bringing the attention back to the clothes -- where it should be. Having said that, as a thin woman, I'm enraged by the statement that the mag will use "realistic" women because I am real, damn it. But, yes, variety would be excellent.
This gets to what I see as the heart of this discussion: Opting for models who look more like real women (even if we all agree that "plus" sized models are slim by most standards) is a step toward putting a kind of pragmatism into fashion. Lagerfeld fears the loss of the dream, but a fashion industry that lets all women dream about wearing the beautiful clothes that we see on the runway is an industry with a future.
What say you: Is fashion all about the dream, or are you crossing your fingers that one day you'll open a Vogue and see clothes that might actually work for your real girl figure?
Susan Wagner writes about pragmatic fashion at The Working Closet and chic suburban living at Friday Playdate.
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Comments
Oh my American mind...
I have to say that the mental image of a "fat mummy" threw me off a bit, since I'm A-an American and 2-it's almost Halloween. lol
As a stay-at-home mom, I'm insulted by the lazy SAHM image anyway, but wow. Because I'm insulted by the fashion industry doing its damnedest to tell my daughter and I that we should be thin thin thin, I'm mean, fat and lazy.
I suppose deep-down we could find some value in what he's saying.
No really, LOOK HARD. If we take off our black-as-tar sunglasses, (you're inside for Pete's sake) and look.
There ARE women saying those thin models are ugly. There are women who have great animosity and cruelness towards the size-0 or 2 models. While most of us are good at making the point that what we want is HEALTHY models, we need everyone to be on that same page.
Maybe when we completely divorce ourselves and our rhetoric from "She's too thin! She's ugly! She looks like a skeleton!" to "We demand women that represent the reality of whose buying the clothes you're hawking. Low BMI and high BMI people have additional health problems, let's not put largely avoidable health problems on a pedestal." they'll finally hear us. Take out our personal opinions about what we think is attractive, and talk ONLY about the health, maybe then they'll *gasp* talk TO not AT the people that pay for their summer homes.
Because women saying "Nobody likes to look at bony girls" is not at all unlike "Nobody wants to see round girls." Trust me, it hurts to be called anorexic, or flat as a board, or be compared to a preteen boy.
Like avflox said, we're ALL real girls, even the sized-0 ones. We have to do better at acknowledging that these girls ARE real women with feelings too, be respectful, and talk about health health health. And then? Vote with our debit cards.
Continue to support the businesses, magazines and designers that get it, and roll our eyes at the Lagerfelds of the world.
That's what I'm going to take away from this obviously-out-of touch man's ridiculous statement, instead of being bitter.
(Thank God BlogHer never makes me feel bad for getting on a soap box!)
health health health
Leghbra, that's such a good point -- this can't be about what's pretty or ugly, it needs to be about what's healthy.
I'm glad you got your soapbox out.
Friday Playdate
And the world asks why so
And the world asks why so many women suffer from low body image that leads to eating disorders. Well obviously, the acceptance from not everyone concerns me. If not even desginers themselves can accept every woman for who they are, these women who are larger ( which is actually normal ) will never have the confidence they desire
Eating disorders are a huge problem, and are the number one fatal mental disorder. There has to be a stop to this thin desire that is actually very unhealthy. Too thin, like some of the models walking the runway, will kill a great amount of both women and men!
I Love What Sherrie Said
I love what Sherrie said:
No kidding!
Karl can kiss my round butt!
Megan
BlogHer Contributing Editor, TV/Online Video
My Personal Entertainment Blog: Megan's Minute
Twitter:@MeganSmith
Dresses for catwalk models only
There has been enormous amount of comment on this outrage.
Some even go as far as saying that the dresses he designs are never expected to be seen in high street and that the dresses are for one catwalk appearance only.
High street shops now have a good selection of dresses lets hope that the continuation of the trend toward size zero clothes is ignored in our shops.
I work in the
I work in the ready-to-wear clothing industry and can assure you that stores are only ordering what they think they sell, especially in the current economy. When buying, they make an educated guess on what sizes they need the most of and the least of based on past customer buying size trends and a general feel of who their audience is.
In a typical women's clothing store (not juniors or plus size or designer boutiques), the most buying generally happens size 8-14. Other sizes will have less or perhaps no buys, which also depends on what the company makes. A lot of ready-to-wear (and usually cheaper) clothing isn't made in "model" sizes or plus sizes, and if choosing between the two, plus sizes are more profitable for the company to expand into. There is no trend toward 0 sizing (unless you count poor self-esteem), no matter what fashion mags and Karl Lagerfeld want you to believe.
Erica
Sliver of Ice
Hmmm....
Yeah.. Karl can go take a flying leap and take his whole creepy look with him BUT I think we have to be careful here. Women and gay men, in general, aren't enemies. We're allies. We've both been screwed by the system. And traditionally, it's been more the lens of the straight man that has objectified women's bodies. It's not gay men's lack of interest in our bodies that's the problem. That gets a little too close to homophobia for my comfort. I mean, since when has hetero men's interest in our bodies protected us from being exploited by them, right?
I do think Lagerfield, individually, is a misogynist artist in search of a bare canvas and doesn't think of women as full human beings. And his fat mummies crack is just gross. Mothers, no matter what their weight, are the opposite of that bare canvas. They are full of life and sometimes expecting it, soft in places and, yes, sometimes fat in a beautiful way that people like Karl could never even grasp, let alone find a way to celebrate through clothes.
Always a... Willful Woman @ www.besidethestonewall.com Visitors always welcome! Bring your stories to share!
Women and gay men
You bring up an interesting point about the alignment between women and gay men -- and you're right that those groups are typically allies. But I can't help wondering if that is precisely what makes Lagerfeld's comments so inflamatory -- we expect him to understand that beauty isn't about size, so when he disses plus size models and mothers, we're infuriated.
I'll have to think more about that, but your comment got me mulling. Thank you!
Friday Playdate
Not Allies - Competitors
I have known many - not all - gay men who see women as primarily competitors and act out on jealousy much of the time. Some are even open about it. Some of these men actually believe that if they could just get rid of these "women" they would get the man that they want.
I also know many straight men who consider the fashion industry nothing more than a haven for whatever a gay man considers ideal - with no relevance to what a straight man would want.
I honestly don't think that gay men are any more allies of women than gay women are allies of straight men! That is just a silly assumption.
MLO / Melissa
Books, Movies, Games, Ovarian Cancer, and Life in General at http://www.mloknitting.com/
Karl Lagerfeld is a Douche
With a capital D.
"Fat mummies," he said? Really? Don't think any customer or client of his who has children will be buying from him again. Score one for you, Karlsie!
I think the real issue today is just as was mentioned earlier - health. It shouldn't be about being thin enough for magazine covers, airbrushing, size 0 & photoshop. It also shouldn't be about classifying size 12 as plus size, either. It should be about eating well, getting enough exercise, and being healthy regardless of size. I am so sick and tired of people judging others based upon looks, that skinny people are skeletons and fat people are slobs or "mummies" with chips in front of the TV. Gah!
Karl (and others like him) deserve a good slap in the mouth.
~ Lisa
Crazy Adventures in Parenting
Karl Lagerfeld
Wow...
I guess when all you do is sell to anorexics... I guess your life is good. After all. That guys is one snapper dresser!
I have noticed that there is quite a lack of plus size models for all sorts of website / internet boutiques. Don't know why...
I am just aware that the manufacturers want to sell to the plus size market as they sell plus size lingerie and clothing. AND at the same time these are the same knobs that will NOT suupply plus size model pics for those internet sites...
Go figure.... I would rather have the real deal (pictures)...
Then sell a "weightloss fantasy clothing"... OK - Off my soap box...
Always interesting aricles... Thanks!
Anyway back to Karl Lagerfeld... Yep A Douche'
He's an idiot
Not in the sense that he's stupid, because by all reports he is highly intelligent (if eccentric and peculiar), but in the sense that Karl Lagerfeld lives in his own fantasy world and is so removed from the daily reality of most people, he really shouldn't make comments on others and on how they look/ act, or should look/ act.
Karl Lagerfeld's Fat Mummies remark is just as ridiculous as he is.
To answer your question, I'd much rather see real women in magazines. It would probably make me buy more, too.
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Oh the IRONY
Does anyone else remember when Lagerfeld was Fatty McFatterson?
Does LAGERFELD remember that? I do.
Poor Karl
He's just attention whoring. And after losing something like 90 pounds he hawked his high-protein book for awhile, and every once in a while says something to stir up size controversy -- like saying Heidi Klum is too heavy. Either he's just getting attention, or he is cranky because it's been too long since he had a carb.
Deb
www.debontherocks.com blog
www.3smartgirlz.com consulting
An Awakening
Fashion Industry finally realizes that there's more to be had featuring real women with real bodies. I'm not saying thin is not real but there's a difference between an unhealthy looking stick-thin and healthy plumpier slim. It has become more realistic than fantasy for most women to see that now they can actually fit into these fabulous clothes. There's always that feeling of being left out since most of these clothes are tailored to thin women. Don't you just hate it when you go to a clothing store and find a real good looking outfit but they don't have YOUR size?
Maricris
Where I blog: http://zenforyou.dalefg.net
Where I review: http://rivyoohoo.com
Where I create: http://goldenflowercreations.com
Dear Karl Lagerfeld, Kiss My Blooming-Ass!
Dear Karl,
Obviously your "art" is more important to you than anything else. How vacuous, how narcissistic, how stupid. Perhaps you might emerge from your skinny, black wearing, ego-centric bubble? You, with your celebrity are more responsible than the average citizen for the well-being of our daughters. My husband & I have lain awake nights wondering when the next time our child might eat will be......SO, kiss my plus sized, blooming, ass!
Love,
Patricia, mother of 3, artist, feminist, writer.
Karl Lagerfeld said that?
Karl Lagerfeld said that? Who cares? One person's opinion on anything has never influenced my way of thinking all that much. Let him drape his ugly size zero dresses on women stupid enough to buy into his version of "beauty;" he's missing the cash boat by not caring enough about the general population to design for them. Not that "normal" women would buy his "creations" even if we won the lottery; they ain't purty and they ain't affordable. I require both before I shell out.
I think everyone is beautiful, but some of us are certainly healthier than others. Perhaps that is what we should focus on, instead of the weight thing.
I side with Dave Barry, who said that he had never found a woman's internal organs or skeleton all that attractive, and prefers people to be the healthy version of themselves, whatever that might be. (His essay "Build Yourself A Killer Bod With Killer Bees" is a must-read for y'all. I highly recommend it.) (Very highly.) (Do it now.)
P.S. I have many gay friends and they are all fantastic people. Please don't judge all gay men by this one hag.
"Don't be content with being average. Average is as close to the bottom as it is to the top."
wtf, Karl?
I think your snazzy collar is cutting off the circulation to your brain...
http://thehecticeclecticgirl.blogspot.com