Keynote Conversation with Guy Kawasaki


Guy Kawasaki
Elisa Camahort Page

>> Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome to the stage, blogger founder Elisa Camahort Page and author Guy Kawasaki.
>> ELISA CAMAHORT PAGE: Hi, everybody. Thank you for being here. I'm pleased  and thanks to Guy Kawasaki to join us today at BlogHer 13.
>> GUY KAWASAKI: I'm honored. Literally I'm honored.
>> GUY KAWASAKI: Because.
>> ELISA CAMAHORT PAGE: Yes, because you are the first male nonpresidential, noncommunity keynoter, so that's a big deal. So thank you for being here.
>> GUY KAWASAKI: It is a big deal. It's come a long way since San Jose at the Hyatt, right?
>> ELISA CAMAHORT PAGE: That's right. How many of you were there in 2006. By the pool.
>> GUY KAWASAKI: By the pool.
>> ELISA CAMAHORT PAGE: That was pretty nice.
>> ELISA CAMAHORT PAGE: Guy, the first thing I want to ask you about, is your new book, because the title is three words that I think resonate, at least probably two of the three resonate with every person in this room, author, publisher, and entrepreneur. And we often talk about the entrepreneurial spirit of our community and bloggers, and bloggers many of them at their heart are writers and many of them are interested in being authors, so I like the acronym APE, so why don't you tell me a little bit about why authors today have to be entrepreneurs.
>> GUY KAWASAKI: Okay. So I have to give you a little bit of background. That question is what you call a softball. So I wrote a book called enchantment, and I got an order for 500 copies of it as an E book but my publisher was not able to fill that order because there was no way to sell 500 copies to 500 different people and so she said we have to sell it through Amazon or Apple or Barnes and Noble so I told the company that wanted to do it to buy through them, and they she first bought 10 through Apple and Apple said you're buying too many copies. They stopped her. She finally talked to the people and said I have to buy 490 more and Apple told her as only Apple could is buy 490 more gift carts and scratch off the back to get the promo code. I was floored that that was it so that's when I started exploring selfpublishing, and I met a woman named Holly Tucker and she convinced me to selfpublish a book and I fell in love with Google plus and I loved it so much I wanted to write a book about it.
>> ELISA CAMAHORT PAGE: Are there Google plus fans in the house? Holly was the keynote at BlogHer 5, so it all comes full circle.
>> GUY KAWASAKI: So then I wrote Google plus and selfpublished it and found out how hard it is to be a selfpublished author, and as Steve Jobs would say there must be a better way, so I started to write a book about selfpublishing so everybody wouldn't have to figure it out like I did. And I also found a great coauthor named Shawn Welsh so if not for him, I wouldn't be here today.
>> ELISA CAMAHORT PAGE: Did you have coauthors on your first book?
>> GUY KAWASAKI: No. I had researchers but I never coauthored a book before, so we coauthored this book and at first we focused on the P part, publishing, we started to figure out the technical part. In early test of the book, many people said, well, I know how to do that and kindle can do that. How do I sell the book? Other people told us I'm not as far along as laying out the book and selling it. How do I write a book? I like tricolons and I wanted something that was something, something, something. And I wanted something early in the alphabet so if there's ever an alphabetical listing of books about selfpublishing, guess who's going to be first? And then I wanted a word that could become a verb, like you Google with. So I wanted people to APE their book. And so that's the genesis of author, publisher, entrepreneur, which really a selfpublished author has to do all three, and I will tell you the hardest part of AP and E is E. It's being the entrepreneur. Many authors make the mistake of I'll write a book, and then at the very end, I figure out, whether you're traditionally published or selfpublished, you need to start marketing it. How do I market this thing? Maybe I should get into a platform. But developing a platform takes six to 12 months, so it's its already too late if you've already written the book, so that's how E part of APE came to be.
>> ELISA CAMAHORT PAGE: How many of you have already published a book self or otherwise?
>> ELISA CAMAHORT PAGE: All right. Wow.
How many  put your hands down if it was traditional publishing. How many have selfpublished a book? How many of you are interested in selfpublishing or publishing a book.
So there's a lot there.
>> GUY KAWASAKI: So most people, what you tell them now, so this is a card, obviously, there's a company called Enthrill in Calgary, they print out these cards for your book, and on the back there's a special area where you scratch out a promo code.
>> ELISA CAMAHORT PAGE: So like an Apple gift card.
>> GUY KAWASAKI: Right. This is roughly 500 copies of APE. I could not carry 500 copies with me. So now the 500 people who want to selfpublish a book, after we're done, come up here and get one of these and this is the free copy of APE essentially.
>> ELISA CAMAHORT PAGE: Awesome, thank you very much.
When was your first book published?
>> GUY KAWASAKI: It was back in the last century.
It was 1987.
>> GUY KAWASAKI: Were you even born then?
>> ELISA CAMAHORT PAGE: Yes. I was over 30 by then. But thank you. You're buttering up the interviewer.
So that's a lot of years and the publishing industry has so radically changed and I know that we have BlogHer writers a couple of years ago that was put together by penguin and a lot of Penguin publishers and agents and literary agents and they were talking about this thing called the following. It's so intangible. And they couldn't put a number on a following. How many followers, how many platforms do you need to have and it was interesting to hear all the many wonderful actionable things they could tell us, but that was more that was art and science, but publishers are not putting into publishing.
>> GUY KAWASAKI: No. If you're Colin Powell, yes, but not you or I. There's already a great irony in a publisher asking that question because theoretically why you go to a traditional publisher is because they're going to do the marketing but now if you approach a traditional publisher the first thing they're going to ask you is how big is your platform which is an ass background question, because you're supposed to be asking them how big is their platform, because they're the ones who are getting 85 percent of the revenue and you're getting 15. And so excuse me, but that's what you're supposed to do and they don't get that at all. So I mean the larger your following, the less you need traditional publishing.
>> ELISA CAMAHORT PAGE: I remember the very first blogger com that I went to in 2004, I think, an author said that he made more money from putting affiliate  Amazon affiliate links on his blog, he made more money from that than from his publisher.
>> GUY KAWASAKI: I'll give you some inside numbers. I love statistics. So for the E book version of APE, which retails for 9.99, Shawn and I, coauthors, we made $7 per copy. So we have 70 percent royalty rate. For the paperback version of APE, which sells  its suggested retail is 25 bucks, the kindle street price is 16.50. At 16.50, you would make $9 per paperback. 9 freaking dollars per paperback. That is roughly six times what you would make from a traditional publisher who is asking you to do the marketing. One of the great things about selfpublishing is you make more money. To be honest, you make more money per copy, but if the traditional publisher could sell seven times more than you could you would go with the traditional publisher because it's about how many you can sell. But I would be extremely surprised if most traditional publishers could sell seven times what you could.
>> ELISA CAMAHORT PAGE: I think most people that with a traditional publisher, you have distribution, that you could never achieve with print on demand if you're doing selfpublishing.
>> GUY KAWASAKI: This is an interesting question. So APE is not in any airport bookstore. It's because we don't know how to crack the airport bookstore. It's not at Costco. It's not at Barnes and Noble, but you have to think about what percentage of your genre of book is sold at Costco. It has 450,000 square feet but only 250 square feet for books, there's only a hundred titles there so the probability of you getting into Costco is pretty low. So yes, they can get you into airport bookstores, but at what price?
I'll tell you how print on demand works. So we use two print on demand, create space, which is part of Amazon, and lightning source, which is part of Ingram, the big book distributor. So for create space, I'll tell you how fast print on demand works. So we approved the proofs of APE on Christmas night. On the 27th of December, we had physical copies of the book. That is how fast print on demand is. Now, print on demand, from create space, APE, the paperback, costs about 5.60. If you went to large printing, it would be probably about 2.50, so we're overpaying $3. On the other hand, I don't have to buy 5 or 10,000 copies at a time. And I think APE will do well, but I'm not so confident I want 10,000 copies sitting in my garage. So like taking the worst case where I'm paying $5.60, I'm telling you, I still make $9 per copy on something that cost me 5.60, which is remarkable. So yes I guess I could make $12 per copy instead of $9 per copy, but as $12 per copy, I need a big garage, and I need to be able to really convince myself, that yes, I'm going to sell these 5,000.
The other thing is with APE in particular, which is different from a novel, APE changes every 60 to 90 days. In the last 60 to 90 days, Amazon buys a company. They buy a book website, a social website. People change their policies. They change soft wares, lots of things change. So this is the book that won't ever be done, and so one of the problems is 
>> ELISA CAMAHORT PAGE: You should save them up and do a second edition and make yourself a nice sum of money.
>> GUY KAWASAKI: I don't want to do a second edition because any given change does not justify people buying the book again. If you save them up, I would talk to save them up for a year or two, but then that means that for the whole year, it's inaccurate. And being an OCD kind of person that I am, it just offends me to think that someone might read this book, and figure out that, you know, Guy is wrong here.
>> ELISA CAMAHORT PAGE: You think that's typical of people publishing E books, that they go and update it like that?
>> GUY KAWASAKI: No, not at all. They're kind of like when you give birth, the guppies give birth, they push them out, they're not nurturing them, right? Sometimes they eat them. So it is really because Shawn and I are both kind of OCD. We really  it just bugs the shit out of me to think that my book is inaccurate, and so that's why, and my model for this is I want this to be the Chicago manual of style of selfpublishing. And so the Chicago manual of style is in its 27th edition, and I want to have that kind of staying power. 'Cause at the end of my life I want people to say he wrote  he empowered an entire generation of people to selfpublish, to write and to not be subject to the whim and fancy of six companies in New York who are going to decide who the winners and losers are.
>> ELISA CAMAHORT PAGE: That's a pretty lofty goal.
So tell me a little bit. You've written all these books. First time you're coauthored, what was that like?
>> GUY KAWASAKI: I coauthored with Shawn because quite frankly I didn't understand the P part of APE. I understand writing because I've written at that time 11 books, I understand entrepreneuring, because God only knows I know how to promote. So the question is did I know how to use word style sheets, did I know how to make a table of contents, that this concept that you take a Word document and you shove it into kindle and the I bookstore and magically all the table of contents is right and the pictures are right and the captions are right and the tables are right and the lists and bullets are right, you're hallucinating. It's just not true. And so everybody needs a Shawn. And so you have to fill  he had to fill in my gaps. He had to fill in this gap in the middle. And so he is absolutely necessary. If I had not used him I would have had to do a lot more research and even research is not as good as someone who laid out APE. He laid out APE. It wasn't theoretical, so I wanted to have the truest representation of what it is to be the P part of APE.
As far as working with a coauthor, what we did is we had a shared drop box folder. And so that drop box folder was always saving, and typically he was two time zones ahead of me, so he was central, and I was Pacific. And so  and so not only were we time zone separated, he was typically working on the P part, I was working on the A and the E part. So it never became sort of a logistical nightmare. It was very easy actually. Certainly easier than me trying to figure out the P part of E.
>> ELISA CAMAHORT PAGE: I want to also say there are two mics on the stands in front and then midway back, and that is the way we're doing it with Q and A in this session, just because some people already ran a 5 K this morning, so they're going to  they don't need to run in the ballroom. So if you have a question about the publishing portion of what we're going to talk about, another question I want to ask about it and while I'm asking it and you're talking about it, maybe you can come forward to one of the mics, we can get in a couple of questions about the APE portion of what we're going to talk about today.
My question is, we got a question actually from someone in a comment, I think, on my blog post, or maybe it was Twitter, and the person said what is the tipping point from authoring a blog to authoring a book, when do you know you're ready to take the plunge and what's the major difference from someone who is a dedicated blogger, to writing a book.
>> GUY KAWASAKI: The answer to the first question, is when do you know you're ready, you never really know. It's not like there's some kind of change in hormonal levels or anything. And I would tell you, every  I think when you first write your first book, everybody has doubts. I mean I'm on my 13th book and I have doubts. And my 13th book, I vacillate, I bifurcate between this is going to be the most popular book ever sold to no one's going it buy it, and it's just like every other day, I flip between those two extremes.
>> ELISA CAMAHORT PAGE: What are you working on? I'll tell you.
>> GUY KAWASAKI: I have several ideas.
>> GUY KAWASAKI: So one idea is and I know you're going to come to this topic later, I happen to love Android and I love Android and I'm an advisor to Motorola, and so I want to write a best book about how to optimize an Android phone and so I was going to call this book Guy phone. So that's one idea.
And I have another idea to be an intern at a large company to write about the experience of what it's like to be an intern if you're 60 years old. So this would be if you know  there's an author named George Plimpton and he wrote a book called paper lions where he trained with the Detroit lions and played in an exhibition football game so this was paper lion meets hightech company.
>> ELISA CAMAHORT PAGE: How big of a company do you mean?
>> GUY KAWASAKI: Pretty big. So these are some of the ideas I have. So to answer the question, you don't really know.
First of all I'll tell you how not to know if you're ready. Don't ask editors, because basically editors are like buffalo. They run in herds and they have their heads down. When you believe you're ready to write a book, just freaking write it. Don't listen to anybody else. Just write it.
So certainly don't seek professional advice. Don't do that at all.
You know, a very good test for you would be pretend you're at or pretend you're at a bookstore if there are any bookstores left. So you walk into this bookstore or you're at Amazon's home page. There's JK Rowling, there's Isabel Allende, Colin Powell writes a memoir, there's Pamela Slim, there's all these books. Now imagine your book is in that selection. You have to ask yourself, why would anybody give a shit that my book is there? And when you can answer that question, you should write a book.
Now, the answer to that question is not because it's going to help me position myself as a thought leader and give speeches and get consulting. That's not the answer. Because I don't know about you, but I don't think many people go to Amazon or a bookstore and says to himself or herself, how can I help an author become a thought leader today?
How can I help this author give more speeches? How can I help this author get more consulting? That's just not the frame of reference. You read a book for entertainment, or education, and so when you can fulfill that, write the book.
>> ELISA CAMAHORT PAGE: That's a good answer.
I actually cannot see the mics midway back. So can somebody shout out if someone's waiting at them?
Okay. Oh, you are? Can you wave your hand? I see you, I see, you lights.
>> GUY KAWASAKI: She's in Indiana over there.
>> ELISA CAMAHORT PAGE: These share your name and your blog.
>> GUY KAWASAKI: I forgot to answer the second question. The second question was transition from author to blogger. So the answer to that question is that understand that one of the hardest parts of being an author is that chapter one has to work with chapter two, has to work with chapter three, four, five, six, seven, and at the extreme, chapter 35 has to reference and work with chapter 2. Now, in a blog, you wake up in the morning sometimes, you say I'm going to write about with this and the next morning you write about this and something in the news happens, you write about this. But it's not necessarily the continuity from blog number one to blog number 36, and that's the hard part. I once wrote a book called reality check, which was a compilation of my blog posts about entrepreneurship, and it was very hard, because those things are written over two years, and so I had to make a blog post that was one year old work with a blog post that was three years old, and at the end of the day, it was easier to just write from scratch honestly.
>> ELISA CAMAHORT PAGE: Some business books, I get about halfway through and I get all right, all right, all right. I get it. Beating a dead horse.
>> GUY KAWASAKI: There are a lot of business books, that we get the gist in the first 30 pages and the rest you wonder why.
>> ELISA CAMAHORT PAGE: They want to be thought leaders and give speeches.
>> GUY KAWASAKI: That's right.
>> ELISA CAMAHORT PAGE: There's a question in the back.
>> GUY KAWASAKI: I'm sorry.
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER: My name is Danielle Herzog. Look, there I am. I write for martinis and minivans.
>> GUY KAWASAKI: Martinis and minivans?
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes. They go hand in hand, just not at the same time. It's a blog for anyone who's ever needed a martini after driving a minivan around all day.
>> GUY KAWASAKI: I have to say that the names of women's blogs are just the best. They are just the best. They really are great, great names.
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER: You have a good name too. Keep up the good work.
>> GUY KAWASAKI: Thank you.
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER: So my question is, one of the things I've heard is if you selfpublish, that it kind of looks frowned upon by traditional publishers later.
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER: And so I'm nervous about taking my book into the selfpublishing world, and maybe being blacklisted.
>> GUY KAWASAKI: Okay. So first of all, it's total bullshit. It used to be.
>> ELISA CAMAHORT PAGE: And I love how much you curse.
>> GUY KAWASAKI: Okay. It used to be  I will say nothing stronger than shit.
>> ELISA CAMAHORT PAGE: Good to know.
>> GUY KAWASAKI: So it used to be that if you selfpublish a book, it was a stigma because you couldn't get a real publisher, okay? But now I think that that stigma has gone away. In fact we should call it artisanal publishing as opposed to selfpublishing, because you would never go up to an artisanal baker, artisanal wine maker, artisanal brewer, artisanal chef and say, oh, you're a loser, right? You must be a loser because you couldn't get a job at AnheuserBusch or you couldn't get a job making Twinkies and you couldn't get a job at Gallo, so you have to become an artisanal baker, brewer, wine maker. No one would ever say that, so why would anyone say that to a selfpublisher. Don't get me started on this.
So the thing that's wrong with that theory is that if you selfpublish a book, and it does well, a traditional publisher will try to buy the rights, okay? So the key is not whether you selfpublished it or not. The key is that you sold a lot of copies. That's all that counts. You know, I don't think when St. Martin's and whoever first acquired 50 shades of gray, I don't think they said wow, we shouldn't acquire this book, it's selling a lot but it's selfpublished. How good can it be? That's not the test.
I can give you some tips to avoid the stigma to the extent the stigma still is around. So if you're going to selfpublish a book, if your name is Jane Schmo, I suggest you not call the book the Schmo way. I also suggest that you not call your publishing entity Schmo press, because the Schmo way by Jane Schmo kind of screams selfpublished. And another thing you must do as a selfpublisher is you must hire a good copy editor. The idea that you're a good publisher and copy editor is zero. Secondly I must tell you that you have to hire a good cover designer.
So these are the three things. The copy editing is lousy, the cover is lousy, and the publishers name is named after the author. Those are just the three smoking guns of selfpublished mediocrity. So don't do those three things. And then market the hell out of it.
There's sort of three plans in publishing. Plan A is find an agent. You find an editor. The editor loves your book, gives you a $2 million advance. You buy a beach house so you can write your book in peace. You hire a nanny. Your kids are getting straight A's. You don't have to take them to tutors anymore. No more soccer matches. Your husband or wife is supportive. That's plan A. Okay?
Plan B is you write the book. You write the book when you're sitting in your minivan waiting at the tutor. You write your book at Starbucks. You write your book anywhere you can. You write your book even though your kids are getting C's and D's and it's clear they're not going to get into Dartmouth or Brown or Yale because you're compelled to write this book. You spend a thousand bucks for a copy editor. You spend a thousand bucks for a cover designer. You've been working for a year getting a great social media platform so you don't have to suck out to any traditional publisher to market you. You take the book to market. You use social media to get it out. You're successful. Then that would be plan B. Okay? The selfpublishing plan.
Plan C is you do plan B, and you're so successful with plan B, then a traditional publisher says I want to buy the rights of your selfpublished book. You've done well for yourself. With our added distribution and foreign rights abilities, we can take it to the next level. You sell the current rights to your book for $2 million. You do a book deal for $2 million. That is  life is good. That's plan C.
So underneath that question is would I ever self  I the, now the two time selfpublisher, would I ever go back to traditional publishing? Let me give you the answer. The answer is absolutely yes.
If a traditional publisher said, Guy, here is a million dollars, here is your advance, a million dollars, I would be saying, I don't care if you take nine months to get the book out. I don't care if you screw up the cover. I don't care if you tell me to put crap in it. For a million dollars, I'm yours.
>> ELISA CAMAHORT PAGE: Is that the line?
>> GUY KAWASAKI: It's the line. Honestly, you cannot buy me, but you can rent me.
So that's the answer.
>> GUY KAWASAKI: Thank you.
>> ELISA CAMAHORT PAGE: And I don't know that it has to be 50,000 copies for a traditional publisher to notice a selfpublished book.
>> Terry (inaudible) has spoken at a couple of our conferences, starting as a little booklet for people who wanted her recipes. She ended up selfpublishing. She ended up selling 5 or 6,000 copies out of her kitchen and sterling came along and helped her republish that and published queen eating.
>> GUY KAWASAKI: Well, what you have to  looking at it from the traditional publishers point of view, they know they're wrong most of the time. So if they can find those instances where a book already has traction, that's just one less variable they have to worry about. If you've sold 5,000 copies, by yourself, you know, you've proven that the dogs are eating the food, much more so than they're going to give somebody an advance that's going to come out in 12 months, so you reduce one big variable. If you also had a social media platform, you would reduce a second big variable. So you're looking better and better, and that's the plan. So there is no scenario under which you should not use your blog and your social media presence to build a marketing platform, because even in the best case, when you get a traditional publisher with a million dollar advance, those people are totally clueless. They're going to ask you, well, how are you going to market your own book? And so whether you're traditionally published or selfpublished, you need a platform. You have to do that.
>> ELISA CAMAHORT PAGE: Another question up front here.
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hi. My name is Tracy. I'm from San Francisco actually. I tried to catch you at (inaudible) but I missed you. So my question is I do social media marketing, okay? And I have long debated on  I write a daily blog but there's so many social media marketing books out there today. I started doing tutorial called back to basics because I find that a lot of places where I go, and I also teach, so I at least have a place to do that. But I have a paltry 5,000 followers. From a social media perspective, I think it's not big enough. I'm just wondering, do you think I should go down the route of doing a back to basics type of book for people getting started or do you think I should continue on with my tutorials and charge for this?
>> GUY KAWASAKI: Wow. You know.
>> ELISA CAMAHORT PAGE: Maybe we can (inaudible) and get copies sometimes.
>> GUY KAWASAKI: It's very hard for me to answer that question.
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER: You wrote a book on Google plus.
>> GUY KAWASAKI: Yeah, I wrote a book on Google plus. And roughly 75 percent of the E part of APE is how to do social media for an author. Truly. I would encourage you I hate to say this, but do both. That's kind of what it takes. I can't sit here telling you which one would work. I think you should try both. And I think you'll very quickly see which one is delivering the best results. Can I give you a  you want me to give you a philosophical model for social media?
>> ELISA CAMAHORT PAGE: Yes, please.
>> GUY KAWASAKI: We're actually in a perfect town to do this. My philosophical model is the NPR model, and to me NPR, with wait, wait, don't tell me, which is in Chicago, fresh air, tech nation, this American life, all these things, I love NPR. NPR provides great content 365 days a year.
A few days a year, it runs the telethon, right? And I can't tell you that I look forward to the telethon. But I tolerate the telethon. In fact I give money to NPR, because I feel a sense of obligation that NPR has generated such great content, that okay, you want to run the telethon, right? If NPR ran the telethon 95 percent, I would not listen to NPR. If NPR had crap, I would not listen to NPR and I would resent the telethon. But NPR has great content and so it has earned the right to run the telethon. So you should think of yourself as NPR. You want to provide such great content that you've earned the right to promote your book when it comes out. Or promote your company or promote your blog, whatever it is, that you have earned the right to promote something because you have provided something valuable. And that's the crux of social media for me. I'm always trying to find things that people would not have found were it not for my efforts. And so what I want is I want people to know that I have very interesting stuff. I want them to reshare it, retweet it, repost it, rewhatever it, to expose me to people who don't know who I am, and have those people follow me so I have a bigger and bigger platform.
I know whenever I explain this, like these social media gurus, which is already an oxymoron, but that's a different discussion, the social media I can't gurus, they go bat shit. Probably 20 of you are tweeting out, Guy doesn't know about social media. Social media is about being social. It's about kumbaya and sharing sensibilities and warm and fuzzy stuff. Hallelujah. Social media is about being a platform for me so I can use it to promote. And not a lot of people agree with that, but I got to tell you, I mean it works, and if I make  if I made  if I may give you an even deeper darker secret, the core of my social media existence is Google plus. I happen to love Google plus. I love the aesthetics, I love the threadings, the communities, the hangouts. Google plus to me is like the Macintosh of social media. It's better and used by fewer people.
>> ELISA CAMAHORT PAGE: That's what people should tweet right now.
>> GUY KAWASAKI: Yeah. And so, you know, I am so obsessed with Google plus that I realize that there's Twitter and Facebook and linked in, and above all there's Pinterest, which I cannot degree comprehend Pinterest at all because I have the wrong chromosomes. So if I may be so bold, the secret to Guy Kawasaki's success on social media is a woman named Peg Fitzpatrick, and Peg Fitzpatrick is sitting right there, so what she does is she takes my Google plus stuff and looks at what else is interesting, and she, shall I say, enhances me. And so now you know that behind every successful man on social media, is probably an amazing woman. So that is Peg Fitzpatrick.
And one more thing. Don't you dare freaking try to steal her from me. I will make it my life goal to bury you if you try to steal her from me. She does not have email. She does not have a cell phone.
There's no way to get in touch with her.
>> ELISA CAMAHORT PAGE: I see. Is that an iPhone?
>> GUY KAWASAKI: All right. Thank you. Thank you.
>> ELISA CAMAHORT PAGE: Now, is there someone at this mic? There is.
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yeah, hi, it's Jan.
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER: I'm Jan, and I had Elisa as a guest on my G plus show, and she was great. Yeah, Elisa.
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER: So I'm thinking  oh, by the way, I teach photo shop and white room for and I do that in addition to writing books. But honestly, writing books through a traditional publisher was such a pain for all the reasons that Guy said. So Guy, here's what I'm thinking that maybe there's a plan D that perhaps I'm interested in following but I'd love your advice.
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER: Plan D would be write the book, do all of that, putting it through Word and all that. I'm good at that but I'm not good at marketing so I'm going to hook up with my friend, Mr. King of Google plus, and that's Tray Radcliffe. What do you think of that plan if he distributes it? What do I need to ask him to find out if that makes sense.
>> GUY KAWASAKI: So Tray Radcliffe has 7 million followers. It's because of his tremendous photography. Because you're writing books about light room and photo shop. It kind of fits, it makes sense, right? So I think that would be a great person to piggyback on and Tray has started a publishing imprint, right? So whether it's Tray or Scott Kelvy, that's the way to go. I think that's a great alliance. It makes perfect sense. And then honestly, it would help if you had a Peg Fitzpatrick but there's only one Peg Fitzpatrick.
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER: Peg, please contact me.
>> ELISA CAMAHORT PAGE: I want to get into some geeky conversation here.
>> ELISA CAMAHORT PAGE: You evolved from the original Apple evangelist. I think that probably was the first time that was used in that context.
>> GUY KAWASAKI: It was the second  I was the second software evangelist at Apple, and of course evangelism in general there was Jesus before us. But yeah, yeah.
>> ELISA CAMAHORT PAGE: Now I would say you're a pretty heavyduty Android evangelist and working for Motorola, and why? Why?
>> GUY KAWASAKI: Because I seriously, I honestly think that Android is better than IOS. How many of you are on Android in here?
>> ELISA CAMAHORT PAGE: And how many are on IOS?
>> GUY KAWASAKI: Well, real women use Android.
>> GUY KAWASAKI: Be sure you tweet that out.
So let me tell you, first of all, Android had 4 GLTE long before IOS. And that is huge. 4 G LTE is five to ten times faster than IOS. So that was huge. The first Android phone that I loved was an Android Max. And it had a better that lasted forever. Compared to an iPhone, it was at least twice as good and I noticed with Android, you could pick your default browser. Maybe some everybody loves safari, so I could make it chrome. With Android, you kick on a button and it lists all the apps alphabetically, which sounds like a small thing but it's very important. Because with IOS, you put things in folder and if you wanted an alphabetical list of everything in the phone, you couldn't do it. You had to search for the app. So the alphabetical listing is very useful. You can also create these aliases for Android apps and put them in multiple folders. So a lot of times I can't remember if I put chrome in the Internet stuff or another folder. With chrome you can have an alias in both folders so you don't have to think about that. Android phones have NFC. IOS doesn't have NFC.
>> ELISA CAMAHORT PAGE: What's that really getting you right now?
>> GUY KAWASAKI: Well, NFC is a very useful thing and it's going to get even more useful around August 1, let me say. So trust me on that. NFC is a very useful thing.
>> ELISA CAMAHORT PAGE: You mean for those who don't know what it is, can you say the acronym?
>> GUY KAWASAKI: Near field communications. It recognizes chips and it's a very useful thing. Pointofsale thing.
So for various reasons  oh, and also, I like the fact that Android phones use micro USB chargers, and so if any of you are Android users and you forgot your cable, you can go to probably any hotel and go downstairs to the front desk and say do you have any cables that fit this phone, and you'll get it. Not true with iPhone. And speaking of cables, some stuff just irritates me. So I don't know why Apple had to change the cable for the iPhone.
>> ELISA CAMAHORT PAGE: We're on the air.
>> GUY KAWASAKI: And I understand that 
>> ELISA CAMAHORT PAGE: Smaller battery. There are reasons.
>> GUY KAWASAKI: I'm sure there are technical reasons. So I can put that cable in either way, upside down. I maybe have faster data communications. Maybe it charges faster, but I don't know. I go to sleep, I wake up, my phone is charged. That's all I really care about. I'm not sitting there and timing the freaking thing so I don't really care. It just irritates me that now millions of cables and docks and all these things is obsolete. Just the antigreen aspect of that irritates me. And so for all those reasons, I just fell in love with Android, and so my allegiance  my allegiance I think is for whatever tool serves me best. And Android serves me best. So I have a Motorola phone that doesn't yet exist. I have an Nexus 7 tablet and I have a Mac book air and that's my equipment.
>> ELISA CAMAHORT PAGE: And if you have any questions about the tech side of it, come on up, but I see another question here.
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER: I'm Janice from might have minutes for mom. I've known you and interviewed you a long time ago. But I wanted to ask you, as we know, you're professing and preaching the gospel of (inaudible) and I remember hearing you speak when you only had 60,000 Twitter followers. So what do you see as the next big thing in social media? Do you think it's this Google plus. Now we have things with video? What are you thinking. Is there another thing, is it just Google plus and Pinterest.
>> GUY KAWASAKI: In a rare moment of humility, let me say that I'm not a visionary, so when I first saw Twitter I thought it was the stupidest thing I everybody saw. Eight years ago I went to Twitter's home page. Lonely boy 15, my cat rolled over. The line at Starbucks at long. Why do I care about this? I could not block Twitter for the first two weeks.
Finally I started searching and that's when I understood the power of Twitter. When I first used Google plus it was kind of positioned as like the Facebook light. It was like you put the plus on, it wasn't a social media platform, so I didn't grab Google plus for a while. So I'm telling you all this because I don't consider myself a visionary. I cannot predict the future. I can just try stuff and recognize stuff I hope and jump on a band wagon. I don't consider like (inaudible) will jump on anything that moves. It's kind of a sexual metaphor. I didn't mean it that way.
I don't do that.
>> ELISA CAMAHORT PAGE: Do you have a glass?
>> GUY KAWASAKI: Do not have a glass.
>> ELISA CAMAHORT PAGE: I have a glass.
>> GUY KAWASAKI: How many of you have glass?
To me Google is missing the point there. How can it be that in 5,000 
>> ELISA CAMAHORT PAGE: Well, they're not generally available yet, right? They're not selling them on line.
>> GUY KAWASAKI: Yeah, but it should be. One person has glass? I don't have glass.
>> ELISA CAMAHORT PAGE: I saw a couple.
>> GUY KAWASAKI: I don't have glass because I don't have enough followers for them to consider me significant. I don't know why. So how did we get on glass?
>> ELISA CAMAHORT PAGE: You were talking about how you're not a visionary?
>> GUY KAWASAKI: Right. I'm not a visionary. Exactly.
So honestly I don't want this to be the Peg Fitzpatrick session, but what happens is Peg Fitzpatrick sends me an email saying you got to try this and that's when I tried it.
>> ELISA CAMAHORT PAGE: She should have been my 
>> GUY KAWASAKI: Yeah. Maybe we should bring her up here.
So the short answer to your question is I really don't know. But I pride myself in being not the like cutting edge of embracing technology. I'm kind of slightly down the curve, and it's because, you know, I'm so busy with Google plus, I'm so busy with Motorola and I have four children. My wife and I have four children. And so my children are 8, 12, 18, and 20. And so, you know, when you've gone from man to man to zone, you truly understand, martinis and minivans. Trust me, I can relate to that metaphor, and so my kids are so important to me that 
>> ELISA CAMAHORT PAGE: You don't want to waste your time looking at the new things?
>> GUY KAWASAKI: Yeah, I'd rather Peggy waste her time.
>> ELISA CAMAHORT PAGE: That would be my followup question then. If say Twitter and Facebook are my strong suits, do I not  hypothetically, should we all then try to make sure that we all have Pegs to make sure our bases are covered?
>> GUY KAWASAKI: Not everybody can afford Peg.
>> GUY KAWASAKI: Well, if I would give one blanket recommendation today, everybody should get on Google plus, and I'm not saying that because I'm a Motorola advisor and they own Google. It helps you with search, it helps you with communities, it helps you with hangouts on air, on line, and it helps you in any way  it would be different if I was telling you embrace this product from two guys in a garage or two gals in a garage and they have $2 million of seed funding. Google plus is Google. It's the 8 million pound gorilla. Google plus is going to make Google successful and we need to come to grips with that.
>> ELISA CAMAHORT PAGE: I'm kicking  you're going to  Google plus is driving me kicking and screaming. I haven't for some reason wanted it. It's like you're making me do it because you're Google and you're God, but I guess I love Facebook so much, it's been hard for me to.
>> I do think with all these tools, you need to use them for a while. I didn't get instagram right away. If I want to tweet a picture I can take a picture in Twitter and that's what I was using it for. And then I realized there's a whole community on instagram that doesn't happen on Twitter at all and there's windows into people's worlds and relationship building that happens on instagram that I enjoy, and I signed up for Twitter in 2006 and I didn't get it at all at first, but now it's like now I probably have the most fun hanging out on Twitter. I do it to talk to my community and I have conversations and all of that, but for me it's not just  it makes my job fun. I'm lucky that's part of my job, right? But I do think you have to try to use it, any tool, any new tool, and be a real user and figure it out before you can even really know, and I do think  I will say this, because I've been on Google plus since day one and I do have a lot of people who have circled me and I do feel an obligation. It's where I have the most following, even though that's totally ridiculous to me, and I don't think  there's something about the user interface that  it doesn't immediately translate. You're supposed to engage here. Like you engage on a blog. Like you would engage on Twitter. It feels a little broadcast and I told the team that. I talked to smart, savvy social media women who say, you know I post things on Google plus, and nothing's happening. And when I ask, when I ask, oh, well who are you following and where do you comment and whose Google plus are you really into? And they would go oh. And they would never put things on their blogs and not comment. You would never do that on Twitter. You would have conversations. So I believe that's a user interface thing but Guy is not a visionary and I'm not a user interface person so I don't have the answer about how to fix that.
>> GUY KAWASAKI: I'll give you two tips. So on Google plus, install a chrome extension called replies and more. Because what replies and more enables you to do is rather than having to type plus and then the person's name, you just click on reply, and it'll turn the thing around and it'll already automatically enter the plus mention. So if you did that, so the beauty of having a plus mention is now the person that you're plus mentioning gets a Gmail saying that he or she is mentioned. So it just sticks up the interaction because now people are notified that you referenced them. And replies and more makes that infinitely easier. I'm astounded that Google hasn't built that in.
The second thing is I think you need  visavis Facebook versus Google plus, the way I explain is that Facebook is for people. People that you already know. People that you went to school with, people that you are related to, you know, people in your existing social sphere.
By contrast, Google plus is for passions. And these are for passions that are your personal interests, but they might not be shared with your people on Facebook, because if your people on Facebook are predominantly your relatives and your classmates, let's say they don't share a passion for photography. Right? So it would be kind of hard to get your people on Facebook to embrace photography, so you have this commonality. I think it's much easier to go to Google plus, type in the keyword photography, and find strangers, i.e., people you don't know who share your passion. So you find people like Tray who you don't know who share your passion and you become friends with them. And that's I think the mental approach to Google plus.
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good job, Guy. My twin interviewed you years ago. She interviewed you at mom 2.0 and when we looked at it after, my sister didn't know that she had spinach in her teeth. So that's one of her claims to fame that she interviewed Guy Kawasaki with spinach in her teeth. She's been using Google hangouts and she's been getting on me for not using it.
>> ELISA CAMAHORT PAGE: You brought up you're not on the cutting edge because you have a lot going on in your life because you have four kids and your married. I have to ask you, how do you do it all? How do you balance your work and your life?
>> GUY KAWASAKI: You presume that I do balance my work and my life, which is debatable. First of all, I have an amazing wife. That helps. So my wife, God bless her, she runs the family. And so that's one.
We also have a nanny that's helpful, and I'm in social media, and I have Peg. So there's like three women behind me. So I'm very fortunate that way.
I also  I don't have a job where I'm an employee with a company and I have to be there 60 hours, I don't have staff meetings. I don't have to show my face there. I can pick and choose. I'm 59 years old, and so at this point I consider pick and choose  I can sort of pick and choose what I do, so I have chosen a lifestyle where there's only two conferences, literally two conferences that I will do this for, which is to get on an airplane without a speaker's fee, okay? This is one of them. And the other one is south by southwest. So there literally is  and I've told people, I'm very upfront, I tell people, I have four children, I will not get on an airplane for free. And I don't care if you tell me it's the most strategic, high level, great connections, position you as a thought leader. I don't care about any of that. If you want me, you pay. It's really quite simple.
And so I draw the line there.
When I'm at home, it's not like I'm going into an office. I work at home. I take my kids to school in the morning. Oftentimes, you know  a lot of  I'll describe my day. A lot of times I wake up at 7, I take my daughter to school at 7:30. I go to Cafe Barone in Menlo Park, and I answer email. I play hockey for two hours, I go back to the cafe and answer email. I pick up my daughter. Sometimes I help her with her homework, not as often as I should. Then I get back on email and go to sleep and the process repeats itself the next day. So that's kind of my life. And so I am there a lot for my family.
Honestly at this point in my life, I don't  I don't  I am not defined by my work anymore. I don't need to have the visibility and the power and the title to be happy. At this point in my life, like I have four little startups. One is in college so I have one IPO already. So that's kind of my orientation. And to the external world, that's the boundaries that I've set, and if they can't deal with it, you know, life goes on, and that's just the decision I made. 'Cause I think at the end of my life, you know, I would like to be able to say that I had four great children, and that I empowered people to change the world. That's what I want to be. And so I empower people with writing, I empower people with speaking, and I empower people with advising their companies. Sometimes I empower people with investing, but primarily it's my writing and my speaking that I use as mechanisms to empower people, because I have this concept that  my wife has a master's in theology so she's not quite aligned with my theory, but my theory is that heaven is an airplane. And hell is a car. So if you're not a good person, you go to hell, which already I know theologically is wrong. It's not whether you're good or bad. It's whether you accept Christ or not, I understand that theory, but just in case, because we're talking about eternity here, still you should play it safe and be good. So I believe heaven is this airplane, and hell is this car. So you can be stuck in a car for all of eternity or you can be in an airplane. An airplane is much better. It's in the sky. You're flying around. There's no traffic. It's a lot better to be in an airplane.
Now a further refinement of my theories. If this airplane has three classes, so you can be in heaven in coach and eating chickenlike substances in a seat that doesn't recline. You can be in heaven in business class. Now the seat does recline and you're eating a beeftype substance. You can be on Singapore airlines in first class. In first class you have your own large TV. There's only one flight attendant per person. The thing rolls completely flat back and they cook the meal for you. And so my theory is I want to be in this airplane in Singapore airlines first class and to do that I believe that I need to help people make the world a better place, as opposed to amass money. And so I want to be in Singapore airlines first class. That is my philosophical orientation to life at this point. Okay?
>> ELISA CAMAHORT PAGE: Wow. So I know some of you still have questions. And we are at the end of time, but we can stay here for a while, and there are these 500 copies of APE to pick up. I just had to see where the car airplane thing was going so I knew we were going to run to the end there. I'm sure that doesn't align with any recognized religious theory. So please join me in thanking Guy Kawasaki for joining us today.
>> GUY KAWASAKI: Thank you. Thank you very much.
(End of session.)

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