Last presidential debate of 2008 tonight: Watch with us here!

Kids are turned away from universities all over the country right now - community colleges in every area I've lived in ARE affordable and accessible - making them more affordable and more so does what?

I've got two kids in community college right now, and the middle child plans to go back again in the spring.

Both kids were offered grants, loans and scholarships. One of them is paying $250 a semester. The other is paying $750 a semester (two different states, different loads, different programs.) Neither of them took full advantage of the financial assistance available to them because we all realize we don't need a free ride, or even a partially free ride - we didn't want to take funds and programs away from people who can't afford that 1K a semester that we've spending to pay for college.

(Next year when all three are in school and Michelle & Jenn move to four year programs, I'm going to have to force them to seek financial help and avail themselves of grants and scholarships that are open to them - but both girls will have their AAs, from community colleges in the spring - and we'll have paid less than 5K total.)

If that isn't affordable and reasonable, I'm not sure what is.

~Denise
BlogHer Community Manager

Flamingo House Happenings ( http://www.flamingohouse.net/ )

I thank you.

An entertainment & culture blog for women of color http://GreyDaySoul.blogspot.com My Celebrity blog - http://RoseRollinsFanBlog.blogspot.com

 The difference I have always seen is the more government of McCain is in cooprorate governement ,or coorproate welfare ,which is basically what has increased so significantly over the last 8 years. His privitization of public services stance (coorporatization if you will) will destory further the middle class - big governemt in that way, small government for the people. It  means poorrer services for the people, poorer schools , roads, and so on. It really does not seem much different to me at all than what has been happening over the last 8 years.  I amtotally against priviizationof public services.

 I like taking away the tax breaks and incentives for coororporations who do not provide jobs, or in some other wa contribute to the local economy.

Health Care: I don't think either have a perfect plan, and think either  one will have to spend some time to make it really beneficial to the American people. As to which one idoelogically will really care to do that once in office, I have to say Obama.

cooper

I wholeheartedly invite the links here. Not to mention pictures of Joe the Plumber...

Lisa Stone
BlogHer Co-founder ( http://www.blogher.com/member/lisa-stone )
Surfette ( http://surfette.typepad.com )

BlogHer is non-partisan but our bloggers aren't! Follow our coverage of Politics & News ( http://www.blogher.com/topic/politics-news ).

 wiser not to

cooper

 They are starting to throw out SAT''s and I imagine the trend will continue.

College was more affordable twenty five  years ago, it was also more affordable to live.

In other words the cost of a college education has grown, the public university cost in many states has grown - not as the cost of living has grown but three to a fifty times or more than the cost of living increases in salary which people might expect( and currently may not be getting)

 A few years back  NC haD a 52 percent tuition jump over a 5 year period - that is huge, and that trend over the last ten years is pretty common. Just look at trends at any Public University System.

When public college cost increase well over the percentage of expected cost of living increases it becomes a big deal to a large part of the middle class. With our middle class shrinking already this makes it more difficult to maintain a middle class, and when the middle class disappears, as  has increasingly happed ed over the last few years , we get into dangerous territory. It also makes that upward mobility America very difficult.

 "kill him" at  alive rally compared to tee-shirt slogans, or even verbal poltical slogans?

That McCain thinks them comparable clearly show  me his reaslining skills are not very good.

cooper

 That is a really big concern for those of us who find her ideology appalling, and her intellect unproven - from what we've seen so far.

cooper

My impression is not that college is about partying. The students i taught in community college were in debt with student loans, working full time, and living at home. I respected them a lot. When you say "our" kids who do you mean by "us"?

-----------------
Liz Henry ( http://www.blogher.com/haystackprofile/viewprofile... )
lizzard@bookmaniac.net ( http://liz-henry.blogspot.com/ )
Contributing Editor, World and Latin America
( http://www.blogher.com/blog/liz-henry )

I am hoping he meant he didn't back that behavior, but he sure didn't say that.

Sigh.

Unreal

Politics & News Contributing Editor
Queen of Spain ( http://queenofspainblog.com/ )

I'll read this with close attention whenever you get around to posting it, Denise!

It boggles my mind, and I'd really like to know!

-----------------
Liz Henry ( http://www.blogher.com/haystackprofile/viewprofile... )
lizzard@bookmaniac.net ( http://liz-henry.blogspot.com/ )
Contributing Editor, World and Latin America
( http://www.blogher.com/blog/liz-henry )

I don't think McCain believes any of that stuff about ACORN. It's like thinking that Food Not Bombs is some kind of Maoist infiltration of the U.S. Totally bonkers.  It's just a play for a conspiracy theory people will believe. And it's code for the entire body of those theories including the "Arab" one.  He is trying to appeal here to older, Cold War voters who know the key words that mean "Commie". 

-----------------
Liz Henry ( http://www.blogher.com/haystackprofile/viewprofile... )
lizzard@bookmaniac.net ( http://liz-henry.blogspot.com/ )
Contributing Editor, World and Latin America
( http://www.blogher.com/blog/liz-henry )

Lisa Stone
BlogHer Co-founder ( http://www.blogher.com/member/lisa-stone )
Surfette ( http://surfette.typepad.com )

BlogHer is non-partisan but our bloggers aren't! Follow our coverage of Politics & News ( http://www.blogher.com/topic/politics-news ).

I didn't hear him repudiate it. At least he didn't repeat it.  But he answered Obama's question by saying he backs his supporters.  He counter-answered something about Obama supporters having tshirts with tasteless (presumably anti-McCain/Palin) tshirts.

-----------------
Liz Henry ( http://www.blogher.com/haystackprofile/viewprofile... )
lizzard@bookmaniac.net ( http://liz-henry.blogspot.com/ )
Contributing Editor, World and Latin America
( http://www.blogher.com/blog/liz-henry )

Grey, I thought I knew what you meant, but wanted to clarify because I have been contacted by the authorities before about other sites I've run when folks made comments that could be misconstrued. Just being vigilant about ye olde community guidelines ( http://www.blogher.com/what-are-your-community-gui... ). Thanks for your quick response!

Lisa Stone
BlogHer Co-founder ( http://www.blogher.com/member/lisa-stone )
Surfette ( http://surfette.typepad.com )

BlogHer is non-partisan but our bloggers aren't! Follow our coverage of Politics & News ( http://www.blogher.com/topic/politics-news ).

I thought Schieffer did a great job with his questions. When he said "Can you look each other in the face and say those things" it may not have got them to answer the question, but it got them to talk to each other. 

-----------------
Liz Henry ( http://www.blogher.com/haystackprofile/viewprofile... )
lizzard@bookmaniac.net ( http://liz-henry.blogspot.com/ )
Contributing Editor, World and Latin America
( http://www.blogher.com/blog/liz-henry )

 College isn't for everyone, but for me (who is in college at 30) some help way back when would have helped. But it was a choice of feeding my children or going to school, as two jobs and college can't happen at the same time...

 TS

The both want more government; Obama in economics, and McCain in civil rights...

TS

Make employer contributions more fair by requiring large
employers that do not offer coverage or make a meaningful contribution to the
cost of quality health coverage for their employees to contribute a percentage
of payroll toward the costs of their employees health care.

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Barack Obama will pay for his $50 - $65 billion health care
reform effort by rolling back the Bush tax cuts for Americans earning more than
$250,000 per year and retaining the estate tax at its 2009 level.

TS

When I didn't know anything about either of them, that is the exact reason I liked him more. He took the high road, and I appriciate that (especially given how hard that can be.)

TS

"It may not be his personal view, but I question why, if it's not his view, he spends so much time in their company?"

 He was a lawyer, and a supporter of his community. It isn't as if this was his best friend...

TS

Here ( http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/15/debate.tran... )

Kim
BlogHer Contributing Editor ( http://blogher.org/blog/kim-pearson )|Professor Kim ( http://professorkim.blogspot.com/ )|

Glad the format allowed the moderator to ask follow-ups. 

Watching MSNBC reporter with group of independents. Focus group didn't like McCain's flogging the Ayer's, ACORN issue.  However, the McCain supporter who was interviewed is still standing with him.

My own feeling is that McCain's comment before the debate that this would not be a game-changer was right. McCain was at his sharpest when he talked about his initiatives and record. His supporters can claim victory on that point. I think McCain made a mistake when he mocked the "health of the mother" exception to abortion.McCain's "I am not George Bush was strong.

Similarly, Obama effectively responded to some of the negative assertions about him. His supporters will be happy with that. He was smart to avoid attacking Palin.

A draw.

Kim
BlogHer Contributing Editor ( http://blogher.org/blog/kim-pearson )|Professor Kim ( http://professorkim.blogspot.com/ )|

I think Lisa was trying to protect you from the Secret Service.  I've heard those guys can get edgy. ;-)

Loved your response to her. Hehe. 

Nordette ( http://blogher.org/blog/nordette ) is a Contributing Editor with BlogHer.com whose personal blog is hosted on another site at this link ( http://bigsole.blogspot.com ).

( http://blogher.org/blog/nordette )

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/10/sp...

The moderator did a good job. His questions made the candidates dig.  

Nordette ( http://blogher.org/blog/nordette ) is a Contributing Editor with BlogHer.com whose personal blog is hosted on another site at this link ( http://bigsole.blogspot.com ). ... Colin Powell endorses whom? ( http://bigsole.blogspot.com/2008/10/colin-powell-e... )

( http://blogher.org/blog/nordette )

This was fun. I also liked the "go Vote!" closing comment. ;)

An entertainment & culture blog for women of color

http://GreyDaySoul.blogspot.com

My Celebrity blog - http://RoseRollinsFanBlog.blogspot.com

No it is not for everyone and access to any and every higher learning institution is certainly not a right. But, making college more affordable and accessible (e.g. through community colleges) is smart. We need well educated kids in order to compete globally and we are doing a poor job keeping up. It is in our collective interest to support higher education preparation and access.

I didn't expect Joe the Plumber to be the star of the debate. I found John McCain's constant return to the anonymous and mysterious Joe the Plumber to be distraction from his actual policy recommendations. I felt Barack Obama did a good job of working with this character and still talking policy. And I'm disappointed Iraq didn't come up.

I'm really looking forward to Factcheck.org's take on all their claims about each others' votes and their claims about other politicians -- is the Mayor of D.C. pro-charter or pro-voucher? I'll come back tomorrow and post that link!

Factcheck.org did in fact debunk both candidates' health arguments here: http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/health_car...

Lisa Stone
BlogHer Co-founder ( http://www.blogher.com/member/lisa-stone )
Surfette ( http://surfette.typepad.com )

BlogHer is non-partisan but our bloggers aren't! Follow our coverage of Politics & News ( http://www.blogher.com/topic/politics-news ).

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/

Politics & News Contributing Editor
Queen of Spain ( http://queenofspainblog.com/ )

higher education... not necessarily. If that was the case, we'd throw out things like SATS/ACTs and grade requirements, and all of the other things colleges and universities use to decide who to let in and who to turn away.

College attendance is expensive, it always has been and I don't think one of our biggest priorities should be to try and change that.

~Denise
BlogHer Community Manager

Flamingo House Happenings ( http://www.flamingohouse.net/ )

:)

Lisa Stone
BlogHer Co-founder ( http://www.blogher.com/member/lisa-stone )
Surfette ( http://surfette.typepad.com )

BlogHer is non-partisan but our bloggers aren't! Follow our coverage of Politics & News ( http://www.blogher.com/topic/politics-news ).

I like it .. go vote!  Now for hours of spin ..  3 more weeks then what will we do :-)

Sen. McCain: "America needs a new direction...I have a record of taking on my party, whether it be a patient's bill of rights, etc...I've been a careful steward of your tax dollars...we have to stop the spending which has mortgaged your children's futures. You have to trust us -- which is why I've asked you to examine my record as well as service to my country. ...I hope you'll give me an opportunity to serve again. I'd be honored."

Sen. Obama: "I think we all know America's going through tough times right now. Worse economic crisis since the Great Depression. ...We need fundmanental change in this country and that's what I'd like to bring. You've confirmed the fundamental decency of Americans....but we're going to have to invest some basic programs. ... it's not going to be easy and it's not going to be quick, it's going to require Democrats and Republians to come together. If you give me the extraordinary honor of being president, I will work tirelessly every day ... for the future of our children."

Lisa Stone
BlogHer Co-founder ( http://www.blogher.com/member/lisa-stone )
Surfette ( http://surfette.typepad.com )

BlogHer is non-partisan but our bloggers aren't! Follow our coverage of Politics & News ( http://www.blogher.com/topic/politics-news ).

I'm glad you posted, actually I'm more than glad. Good response!

~Denise
BlogHer Community Manager

Flamingo House Happenings ( http://www.flamingohouse.net/ )

No, college is not for everyone, but everyone should have the opportunity to go if they want too.

An entertainment & culture blog for women of color
http://GreyDaySoul.blogspot.com

My Celebrity blog - http://RoseRollinsFanBlog.blogspot.com

Not anymore than the idea of Biden becoming president, and I certainly hope that never happens.

~Denise
BlogHer Community Manager

Flamingo House Happenings ( http://www.flamingohouse.net/ )

I think education and health care are rights in a civilized society.

Politics & News Contributing Editor
Queen of Spain ( http://queenofspainblog.com/ )

Sen. Obama: Need both money and reform. Need to invest. E.g., in early childhood education. Recruit "an army of new teachers" Need to get parents involved.

Sen. McCain: Recommends school choice and individual choice re: schools. Need to reward good teachers. Needs to make sure troops can go straight from battlefield to classroom without having to take exams.

Last question part two: Should federal government and money have a role?

Sen. Obama: Thinks there's a role for federal government and wants to focus on early childhood education. Agree with Sen. McCain on charter schools, making sure bad teachers are removed. Disagree with Sen. McCain re: giving vouchers as a way of securing problems.

Sen. McCain: Says he doesn't understand why Obama didn't approve D.C. initiative for early childhood education. Doesn't want to "throw money" and feels vouchers have been proven.

Lisa Stone
BlogHer Co-founder ( http://www.blogher.com/member/lisa-stone )
Surfette ( http://surfette.typepad.com )

BlogHer is non-partisan but our bloggers aren't! Follow our coverage of Politics & News ( http://www.blogher.com/topic/politics-news ).

Thanks for the civil discourse tonight, ladies! It was really enjoyable for me. :D

Melanie
Blogging Basics 101 ( http://www.bloggingbasics101.com )
Bloggy Giveaways ( http://www.bloggygiveaways.com )
Don't Try This at Home ( http://www.donttryit.com )

College is not a right nor is it appropriate for everyone.

~Denise
BlogHer Community Manager

Flamingo House Happenings ( http://www.flamingohouse.net/ )

I considered posting a response earlier today to another blogger's post at BlogHer, "What Does ACORN stand for?," that goes heavy on the voter fraud allegations and paints ACORN as a powerful and conspiratorial group. I decided against it since another commenter did a good job in pointing out the flaws in the accusations.

However, since ACORN came up in the debate, I've responded. I didn't want this debate post to be hijacked by the ACORN matter, so I went ahead and posted my response on the other blogger's post this evening as Voter Suppression 101 ( http://www.blogher.com/what-does-acorn-stand#101 ).

And that response is all I hope I have to write about ACORN again, ever. Had to get it out of my system.

Nordette ( http://blogher.org/blog/nordette ) is a Contributing Editor with BlogHer.com whose personal blog is hosted on another site at this link ( http://bigsole.blogspot.com ).

( http://blogher.org/blog/nordette )

And many people have had to work multiple jobs to put themselves through. They didn't go out partying, didn't join the Greek system, did without and maybe didn't go straight through. But they did it.

I think our society is too much on the "it's too hard, so I don't wanna" side.

I know, I know! It's not a popular view, but I don't think government has to make sure our kids go to college.

Melanie
Blogging Basics 101 ( http://www.bloggingbasics101.com )
Bloggy Giveaways ( http://www.bloggygiveaways.com )
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It's not fair, but it is a factor.  Palin could become president.

An entertainment & culture blog for women of color
http://GreyDaySoul.blogspot.com

My Celebrity blog - http://RoseRollinsFanBlog.blogspot.com

It's really the most solid preference that I have.

~Denise
BlogHer Community Manager

Flamingo House Happenings ( http://www.flamingohouse.net/ )

it'll never happen. Man, oh man, I wish it would. :D

Melanie
Blogging Basics 101 ( http://www.bloggingbasics101.com )
Bloggy Giveaways ( http://www.bloggygiveaways.com )
Don't Try This at Home ( http://www.donttryit.com )

Melanie
Blogging Basics 101 ( http://www.bloggingbasics101.com )
Bloggy Giveaways ( http://www.bloggygiveaways.com )
Don't Try This at Home ( http://www.donttryit.com )

He would have hated Obama's response on education. He would like McCain's - help bad teachers find another line of work. Hah.

~Denise
BlogHer Community Manager

Flamingo House Happenings ( http://www.flamingohouse.net/ )

for me to even respond to what McCain just said about Pro-choice movements pushing the 'health of the mother' issue.

Clamming up until I calm down.

Politics & News Contributing Editor
Queen of Spain ( http://queenofspainblog.com/ )

does a small business make before it's considered a corporation? And why are corporations being punished if people can supposedly afford the health care under his plan? I'm not getting it.

Not trying to be inflammatory, Erin. I really feel like he's speaking out both sides of his mouth and not giving the full picture.

Melanie
Blogging Basics 101 ( http://www.bloggingbasics101.com )
Bloggy Giveaways ( http://www.bloggygiveaways.com )
Don't Try This at Home ( http://www.donttryit.com )