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Legalize Prostitution

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What do professional athletes, construction workers, models, warehouse employees, porn stars, fishermen, and strippers have in common? All of them use their bodies to earn their living. In fact, most of the world's population provides some sort of physical activity for which they are paid. So why should prostitutes be any different?

Those opposed to legalizing prostitution argue that selling sex victimizes women. As Melissa Farley and Victor Malarek wrote in an op-ed piece in yesterday's New York Times, "most women in prostitution, including those working for escort services, have been sexually abused as children." Today's column by Nicholas Kristof offers evidence that is even more damning. He writes:

Studies suggest that up to two-thirds of prostitutes have been sexually abused as girls, a majority have drug dependencies or mental illnesses, one-third have been threatened with death by pimps, and almost half have attempted suicide.

Melissa Farley, a psychologist who has written extensively about the subject, says that girls typically become prostitutes at age 13 or 14. She conducted a study finding that 89 percent of prostitutes urgently wanted to escape the work, and that two-thirds have post-traumatic stress disorder — not a problem for even the most frustrated burger-flipper.

The mortality data for prostitutes is staggering. The American Journal of Epidemiology published a meticulous study finding that the “workplace homicide rate for prostitutes” is 51 times that of the next most dangerous occupation for women, working in a liquor store. The average age of death of the prostitutes in the study was 34.

“Women engaged in prostitution face the most dangerous occupational environment in the United States,” The Journal concluded.

Of course, one of the most obvious reasons that prostitution is so dangerous is because it is illegal. Prostitutes have almost no recourse for crimes committed against them because to seek legal help, they reveal that they are breaking the law themselves. This inability to turn to the law for protection adds extra vulnerability to a woman who is already socially maligned, and possibly abused, addicted to substances, or mentally ill.

In other cases, prostitutes who are caught in the web of sex trafficking are also unable to seek assistance from the very sources who should be protecting them. In most places, the law makes no distinction between a prostitute who was kidnapped and forced into sexual slavery and a prostitute, who for whatever reason, entered the business. This makes trafficked individuals doubly victimized: they can go to prison with their tormentors.

Kristof concludes that legalizing prostitution will only increase the problems found in the sex trade. He cites experiences in the Netherlands, which legalized prostitution in 2000 and found that trafficking flourished. He also noted that Sweden took a different tack: they made it legal to sell sex, but illegal to buy it. This dramatically drove down demand for paid sexual services.

I think legalizing the sale of sex is a good step, but it is only halfway there. It still indicates that there is something wrong with the purchase and sale of sexual acts. As Alyssa Royse commented on Lisa Stone's post about Eliot Spitzer and prostitution:

…we have created a society in which his sexual needs (which were strong enough that he was willing to risk EVERYTHING for them) had to be swept into dark corners and deemed "filth." How must that feel to wake up everyday longing for something deep inside your soul that you - and everyone around you - deems filthy? That's the kind of thing that erodes people. And it makes me sad.

I have friends who are strippers and dominatrix and tantricas, and I absolutely respect their ability to sell their services to people who need and want to purchase them. What makes me sad is that most of their clients don't feel that they can tell their life-partners that they want these things.....

Criminalizing prostitution comes from a deep discomfort with sexual desire. It is a moralistic law that creates as many problems as it sometimes seeks to solve. If we want to end sex trafficking, we have to be honest with ourselves about our human desires and wants. It is the very nature of making normal desires illicit (and "filthy") that allows criminality to flourish in the sex trade.

Legalizing prostitution, providing social services to abused women, drug addicts, and the mentally ill, and severely punishing sex traffickers will go much further toward improving the lives of

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prayforsun 5 pts

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If prostitution was legalized, many people would
be much safer and healthier. Research has found that engaging in sex with a
prostitute in now the third most common way for an American male to contract
the HIV/AIDS virus.  If it
was regulated, then advisors, hired by the government, could come into the
brothel and make sure the women are working in sanitary conditions and that
they are using condoms and birth control and could make the women get monthly
checkups in the form of a blood test. In Nevada,
where prostitution is legal, the amount of HIV/AIDS cases that are found is
zero as of 1989. In Newark,
New Jersey, where it is illegal,
60% of the prostitutes have HIV/AIDS.  Regulation could seriously help the spread of
HIV/AIDS decrease. The government could supply the prostitutes with condoms so
they do not have an excuse to not use one or have to buy them if they do not
have the money. The government could supply the women with less expensive birth
control so there are no unwanted pregnancies that end up in abortions. Also,
the licensed bordellos in Nevada
try to compete with each other and they try to sell strong incentives to pick
their bordello. The bordellos try to advertise that their place is the cleanest
and safest and with all the competition, the spread of HIV/AIDS will decrease.

ScienceNerd 5 pts

Hi all.

I found your Blogs on an internet search for Legalize Prostitution.  Does anyone here know of an organization lobbying the state and federal governments to legalize prostitution?  If so, shoot me an email at cedmund@csc.com.

Thanks!

mommyof3tots 5 pts

There are only a handful of mammals on this planet that mate for life.  Humans just happen to be one group that are supposed to be included in that handful.  Go figure!  Women have the right to terminate a living thing, whether you want to call it cells, fetus, or baby, but don't have the right to decide to accept money for letting a man insert his penis into her body?  GIVE ME A BREAK!  It doesn't have to be a big deal and it doesn't have to be emotional.  A hole is just a hole, people.  We should have a don't ask, don't tell policy like the military.  I don't care what ANYBODY does with their body, sexually, as long as they aren't molesting or raping.  End of discussion.  Besides, most people would definitely be surprised at what goes on behind closed doors.  The same people who make laws against prostitition are not prudes.  They are doing kinky stuff too, it's just not advertised.  Our own president was doing things with cigars that no one could have ever imagined.  Whether it is legalized or not, sexually perversity will still exist.  Last but not least, all men pay for sex one way or another! 

alyssaroyse 5 pts

Thanks for your reply also. Maybe it's a time and place thing - I am a young(ish) woman in a liberal city raised by liberal parents with a very liberal circle of friends.  The women in my life are as wildly and passionately kinky and horny as the men I know. (Maybe more so.) So I just don't believe that there is an inherent difference between the sex drives of men and women.  Not based strictly on gender anyway.

Really, I know as many women who fuck just because it feels good as i do  men who long for a deeper connection. (And I think that most of us are closer to the center of that spectrum than not.)

I think that we are all just wildly varied in our proclivities, and the only way to get our needs met - so that we are not deceiving our partners to find it elsewhere, without our partners at our side - is to all first be honest about what we want and then find someone with whom we are sexually compatible. 

At least in my happy little world, there are myriad ways to get ones sexual needs met, all of which are consensual and open and honest and fun, and none of which involve deception (even if they also don't involve monogamy.)

And that's okay.....  As long as everyone is on the same page. Consent involves everyone involved, whether they're "doing it" or not. And yes, it's tough, but no tougher than being honest and committed in every other aspect of a relationship.

That said, on the question of prostitution, I still see no good reason why sex-workers shouldn't be legal, protected and respected.  The sex isn't the problem, it's the lying so often associated with prostitution that's the problem. But i don't see how it's really all that different from getting a massage or a chiropractic adjustment - and those who are really good at it do indeed know things that most people don't!  It is a major part of our society, and if consent adults are part of it, it should be regulated, taxed, protected just like any other job. 

And, just as any other industry, we should do everything within our power to make sure that the abusive criminal element stays out of it. But that criminal element is in every industry, so it's not special just to sex.

And again, everything I say is predicated on the open and honest communication between intimate partners. Lying is never okay. 

But yes, I am sure we agree more than we disagree..... 

____________

Alyssa Royse

Just Cause It: ( http://www.justcauseit.com )A Web Site To Save The World

Start Her Up: ( http://www.startherup.com )A Blog for Women Entrepreneurs

ebleas 5 pts

Hi  alyssaroyse ( http://www.blogher.com/haystackprofile/viewprofile... ) -

Thanks for your reply.  Okay, perhaps mine was also a bit of an overstatement as well, but we just seem to have different views here when you state "Men and women do not have inherently different sex drives."  I have no doubt that most women do indeed enjoy sex, but the reasons men and women seek sex are different.  Men have more of a physical need; women have more of an emotional need.  Yes, you will always find exceptions to the rule.  But arguing a point on exceptions is something I try not to do.  So, I was not arguing differences in frequency as much as I was pointing out differences in why we seek to have sex in the first place.  If both men and women had truly equal sex drives, I dare to say prostitution (and least woman dominated) would not exist.

And I was not for a moment "blaming this on women".  I'm not sure why it came off that way, but I'll accept that it did.   As I stated in my previous post, I blame the extreme religious rule we have been living under since Bush took office and the religious right came to political and social power.  We are constantly bombarded with call to abstinence and the like.  The abortion debate threads are filled with such statements like "if a woman is not ready to have a baby, she should not have sex!".

But I think that we agree here more than we disagree.  I would love to see the day when sex in general is un-demonized, and "alternative" life-styles are more accepted.  I would love to see the day when women feel more free to express their sexuality without the baggage and demons that accompany it today.  And I agree that the most important aspect is open-ness in a relationship.  We need to express our needs and desires openly and treat everyone in a kind and courteous manner.

alyssaroyse 5 pts

Okay, perhaps that was a bit of a snarky overstatement, but your assertion that "I can't see how it would ever be "unecessary" as long as the difference
between men's and women's sexual drive, outlooks and morals exists," is one of the most aggravating things I ever hear. Men and women do not have inherently different sex drives.  People, in general, do. Some people are wild, some are mild, some want it daily, some monthly. Men and women. 

When people - men and women - do not have the clarity and courage to be honest with their partners about what their sexual needs are, that is when they look outside of their relationships for gratification. It isn't a gender issue, it's an honesty issue. 

If ANYONE gets into a marriage or other serious relationship knowing that their sexual needs will not be met, they are as much "at fault" as the other person. 

Society is NOT responsible for anyone being dishonest about their sexual needs with their partners. Does society make it confusing and hard to figure out? Sure. But it's our responsibility to be honest with ourselves and our partners about what we need.

Why do I want prostitution to be unnecessary? Because I want people to get honest with themselves, and their partners, and be able to be accepted and loved and desired for who they are. Whatever that means. 

And I have a hard time believing that having people feeling lied to and deceived by their partners is going to do anything to make sexual diversity accepted. Rather, it attaches sexual diversity to the pain of deceit and betrayal.

That said, if consenting adults in relationships want to openly and honestly pursue sexual fulfillment with others, then it should be just legal, whether they pay for it or not.  And yes, sex - paid for or not, vanilla or kinky, monogamous or polyamorous - needs to be un-demonized asap. We all do it.  We all do it differently.  Only thing that matters is that it's all safe, consensual and good. How your neighbor does it is none of you business. :)

(But I can assure you, there are as many women out there who wish their men would "pony up" more often and more creatively than they do.  So no blaming this on women!)

____________

Alyssa Royse

Just Cause It: ( http://www.justcauseit.com )A Web Site To Save The World

Start Her Up: ( http://www.startherup.com )A Blog for Women Entrepreneurs

ebleas 5 pts

"Among the easiest methods of increasing demand for Prostitution is by making it legal. When demand is increased, the price goes down, and the need for supply becomes imperative; that leads to trafficking."

**********

Um, I think you have your laws of supply and demand confused.  In general, when demand for something goes up, the price also increases in the absence of any increase in supply.

But the point of this post I think is to show that if we legalize prostitution in anyway, that will necessarily lead to an increase in trafficking.  And, of course, trafficking is a harmful and illegal activity often associated with the prostitution trade.

But for those who would make prostitution illegal solely due to the abusive and illegal associations such as trafficking; consider this.

The selling and consumption of alcohol is directly responsible for about 25,000 deaths every year, many in the form of automobile accidents.  So, using the same logic, if we made alcohol sales illegal, we could save countless numbers of lives each year in the US alone.  Now who here would be willing to go back to the days of prohibition where alcohol sales were illegal?

<the sounds of crickets chirping fills the room>

I have asked this several times before, and most people say no to this idea of returning to the days of prohibition.  And the reason I get back usually centers around the idea that all freedoms in our society carry some price, as harse as that might seem at first glance.  Said another way, given any freedom that we currently enjoy, there will always be some group which abuses the priviledge.  And the correct response to such abuse is to work to curb or control the abusive elements and still keep the underlying freedom intact.

So, with this in mind, one has to ask why prostitution is so radically different.  And I think the answer, sadly, lies deep within the negative stigma our society attaches to sex itself.  Thoughts?

ebleas 5 pts

"I'd really like to solve the "prostitution problem" two ways.

1. make it legal
2. make it unnecessary"

 **********

I can't see how it would ever be "unecessary" as long as the difference between men's and women's sexual drive, outlooks and morals exists.  Women have always "controlled" sex (yes, I know this one will raise some eye brows).  But think about who usually has the final say-so in any sexual encounter.  This difference exists for a variety of reasons, and it's proabaly not the time or place to get into them in detail.  But to your point, I, as a male, would certainly love to see the day when prostitution is unnecessary.  But it would be unnecessary do to factors our present sociey would never support, such as the free-er expression of sexuality and sex itself.   But after a decade of damage by the extreme religious right, we are now at a point where the woman's sexual liberation movements of the 60's and 70's have been almost totally undone.  Sex is now again seen as something dirty, disgusting, immoral and largely considered an animalistic urge on the part of men.  Until we can reverse this current trend, prostitution will never be unnecessary.

ebleas 5 pts

"Also, I don't agree that if you don't support prostitution you also think sex is bad. Not at all. In fact I think sex has a very special place in relationships."

It depends on what you mean by "support prostitution".  If you mean you don't see it for yourself, SO, or friends, then there is certainly nothing wrong with that.  Those are your feeings, morals and values.  But if you mean you don't support it to the point where you would make ILLEGAL for ANYONE to use such servies, then you have crossed an important line.

The reality is that different people have different views on sex and relationships.  There are some who feel sex should only be practiced within the confines of a marriage.  There is nothing wrong with that particular view; it's just not for everybody.  And, hopefully, there is no one here that would seriously suggest we make sex outside of marriage illegal.  Then there are also fundamental differences between the way men and women see and treat sex.  You, being a woman, have a different outlook on sex compared to most men.  Your views and feelings are no more right or wrong than others; it's just a difference in your gender, upbringing, morals and lifestyle.

So, I think it's important for those who are "opposed" to prostituion to clarify if they are against it for themselves or to the point where they would legislate their views onto the rest of society.

ebleas 5 pts

"But when degradation and harm are the work itself, struggling over labor standards becomes confusing."

But you are equating sex with degradation.  Why?  If you do, this is certainly your right to think so, but others do not feel the same way.  What part of two people having sex (as long as both parties are kind, considerate and respectful) is degrading?  I just fail to see the equation here.  Any person who feels that sex is degrading under the circumstances outlined above probably already has issues with sex that would manifest themselves even in the absence of monetary exchange.

Also, degradation is in the eyes of the beholder and is always going to be subject to individual values and preferences.  Is the fact that a job is considered by some to be "degrading" sufficient to make it illegal?  I have no doubt that shoveling human or animal feces 8 hours a day would be considered "degrading" by most.  But there are jobs that do entail that.  How about dressing up in makeup and a ridiculous costume and dancing around for screaming boys and girls?  It's called being a clown.  How about cleaning someone's house and toilets and be subserviant to them?  It's called being a maid or butler.  Again, many people would consider these jobs "degrading".

When you distill away all the other factors away, the only thing left to object to is the sex itself.

blackgrass 5 pts

I have been really interested reading these posts. especially as they are concerned views from people outside the sex industry, & understandably so, especially with what people are fed with via the media etc.

I am an ex-sexworker from the uk. I was in the industry for 30 years, but left to explore & express other interests. Though I became a dominatrix for the last 20yrs of my sexwork experience, the first 10yrs were at varying levels & I now write/talk about the sex industry to anybody who is interested enough to listen.

The stigma`s given to sexworkers are at the most extreme end of the whole female (especially) sex/fear scale. ie: are you a bad girl or a good girl ethos.

When the media etc discuss prostitution in any way they firstly get most of their information from `street` agancies. Street agencies deal with those who are in choas in some way or in some form of need. Therefore much of the figures/statistics thrown forward are misleading ones. yes, I know there is abuse/exploitation in the industry but as somebody mentioned before it is illegal therefore creating opprtunities for predators of all kinds.

Somebody else mentioned trafficking..but what is trafficking? A "(a) ' Trafficking in persons' shall mean the recruitment, transportation, transfer, harbouring or receipt of persons, by means of the threat or use of force or other forms of coercion, of abduction, of fraud, of deception, of the abuse of power or of a position of vulnerability [interpretative note (63)] or of the giving or receiving of payments or benefits to achieve the consent of a person having control over another person, for the purpose of exploitation. Exploitation shall include, at a minimum, the exploitation of the prostitution of others or other forms of sexual exploitation [interpretative note (64)], forced labour or services, slavery or practices similar to slavery, servitude or the removal of organs;"     So just as slavery was abolished the same would go for trafficking once prostitution was & I emphasis `decriminalised` rather than legalised.

To see the difference go to:http://www.bayswan.org/defining.html

It basically means if you decriminalise you have the right to freedom of choice of management. Rather than govermental control in all its forms.

Amsterdam has been mentioned also, but this is not a good example of prostitution decriminalised. many of the women who work behind the windows have to give up 50% of income to tax, another 25% to the window owners..all men. new Zealand on the other hand is a better example of decriminalisation at work. Its been that way for about 5 years now & is working very well.

So many issues have been discussed here but one that stood out was the mention of `would you like your wives, sisters, daughters to do it`...well I am sorry to say human beings as a whole have a bad idea of sex & what it does & does not do, but it must be remembered that it is also your husbands, brothers & sons that enable this industry to exist...`we` just have to be real about sex. We all do it. Some are lucky & have successful relationships, but that is not the case for all. Some people both male & female have affairs others keep it boxed off & business like & go to a prostitute. Some men are too busy to form relationships at times in their lives, others are just not successful in any form of relationships, & again others have physical disabilities too...I can go on & on with the hundreds of reasons anyone may use the services of a prostitute. Repression & control of ones own sexual urges does not work & can cause huge psychological & emotional problems also.

Yes there are huge problems around the sex industry & many should not be in it, but this is the case for many professional & non-professional roles that are not in this line of work.

Prostitutes are also clubbed together with sexually transmitted diseases/drugs/mental health issues etc.

Whereas prostitutes were the front runners in getting safe sex on the open market & it does not take a genius to realsie that it is bad business to be unhealthy in any way. It stops your business & makes you ill. The general public are far more likely to have sexually transmitted diseases than a sexworker.

Drugs are bound to be a issue especially with street workers & that is because they are a mirror on social drug use anyway. Its just that you rarely hear about the policeman/manager/shop owner or any other professional taking drugs, because they do not face such public scrutiny & have such dangerous jobs as sexworkers.

Then theres the so-called past child abuse of huge percentage of sexworkers. As I have mentioned before those that come to agency attention have already got to a stage of either personal unawareness or choas & maybe a large percentage show sexual abuse when young, but what other profession scrutinises the past lives as much as is done with sex workers? these women become `token prostitutes `hung up high to warn others this is what could happen to you if you go down this road. I have contact with hundreds of sexworkers, only a few have said about past abuse & even then they have it in perspective & have moved on with their lives. There are hundreds of thousands of people who have been abused in childhood, that does not make them future prostitutes, nor is it a fair indication of abuse & how it affects us.

snigdhasen 5 pts

No Kristy, I didn't mean that. The reason I brought it up here is because some of the comments here seem to be suggesting a free-for-all. That's why I stuck to marriage/commitment.
Plus, this discussion began here, I assume, primarily based on the Spitzer case. Hence the reference.

But the lines we are drawing here are too fine.

I think I could have argued this better face to face. A lot is lost in words. Anyhow, I'll try.

Sure, it's not "illegal" to sleep with your wife's best friend. But it is grounds for divorce. So we do attach some "illegitimacy" to that act.

The point is, you can legalize it only when people can respect it for the thought behind it. But we know that the kind of people who seek out prostitutes (want younger women, virgins, children, etc) are going beyond just finding basic sexual solace.
So, I am not sure that the victims who need help most ---like children ---will see the demand for them reducing.

How much of a dent are we actually making by legalizing it and at what cost?

Also, there is an expectation that women will enjoy similar freedom of sexual expression and men will be happy to deal with it.
Ha! Ha! I don't believe I will live to see that.

So far, men have proven to be territorial. I can do what I want, but wife can't, daughters can't, sisters can't.

That's reality and any laws that are introduced need to take practicalities into account. Which is why I say this is too utopian.

Which is also why the Swedish model has worked. It makes it illegal only for the john.

I would like to see this regulated too. The women suffer too much. But just legalizing it doesn't work. There have to be tons and tons of laws and bye-laws to protect the entire ecology around this business.

And the more the laws, the more the loopholes :(

Add to that the fact that this is a global business.

We have a long long way to go with this.

Thanks!
Snigdha

Kristy Sammis 5 pts

Hi Snigdha,

I just wanted to point out that prostitution being made legal doesn't go hand-in-hand with making it okay for a married person to go to a prostitute. That is a huge leap in logic.

Right now, just because it's "legal" for one's husband to sleep with one's best friend does not make it okay.

If you are in a committed and monogamous relationship with a partner, where having sex with someone outside the relationship is something both members agree not to do, then that's that.

---
Kristy Sammis
BlogHer's Conference & Event Planner
e. kristy@blogher.com

Kim Pearson 5 pts

According to this story ( http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/sep/07/usa.ge... ) in the Guardian, prostitutes in Nevada endure horrific conditions. An excerpt:

"I saw a grated iron door in one brothel," says Farley. "The women's food was shoved through the door's steel bars between the kitchen and the brothel area. One pimp starved a woman he considered too fat. She made a friend outside the brothel who would throw food over the fence for her." Another pimp told Farley matter-of-factly that many of the women working for him had histories of sexual abuse and mental ill-health. "Most," he said, "have been sexually abused as kids. Some are bipolar, some are schizophrenic."

Then there is the fact that legal prostitutes seem to lose the rights ordinary citizens enjoy. From 1987, prostitutes in Nevada have been legally required to be tested once a week for sexually transmitted diseases and monthly for HIV. Customers are not required to be tested. The women must present their medical clearance to the police station and be finger-printed, even though such registration is detrimental: if a woman is known to work as a prostitute, she may be refused health insurance, face discrimination in housing or future employment, or endure accusations of unfit motherhood. In addition, there are countries that will not permit registered prostitutes to settle, so their movement is severely restricted.

Kim
BlogHer Contributing Editor ( http://blogher.org/blog/kim-pearson )|Professor Kim ( http://professorkim.blogspot.com )|

Maria Niles 5 pts

I would lean towards the idea of legalizing prostitution. But I wonder if given the economics there isn't still a strong incentive for abuse in even a legal system.

Domestic labor (housekeeping, etc...) factory labor (e.g. sewing, product assembly) and farm labor are all legal forms of commerce yet there is an abhorrent level of human trafficking and slavery in all areas of the world, the US included, in these areas. Presumably legalized prostitution would still be a relatively expensive proposition. Legalizing would not avoid customers wanting to shield their use of such services from family and employers so would it not still be an attractive vehicle for money laundering? Gambling because of the dollar sums involved, though heavily regulated, still thrives at a black market level. Garbage collection and mom and pop retail businesses are not only legal but morally benign activities yet attract the interest of organized crime.

I would be curious to see any studies that have looked at outcomes from legalized prostitution in Nevada here in the US. Ideally I'd like for women involved in sex work to have more protection and control but I fear that even legalized prostitution is potentially a minefield of unintended consequences.

PopConsumer ( http://consumerpop.typepad.com )
Beyond Help ( http://mariax.vox.com/ )

snigdhasen 5 pts

Thinking about solutions...

For the sake of simplicity I'm only addressing female prostitution here.

It's common knowledge that because it's illegal, many prostitutes are forced to service cops (usually male) for free to keep the business going. So it is in everybody's interest to keep it illegal, right?

One approach would be to do what some women have suggested here: legalize it.

Here's another one, in case we decide not to legalize it (I was inspired by how India's top female cop -- Kiran Bedi -- turned around a notorious prison full of violent criminals by introducing unconventional methods like meditation, yoga and literacy programs. The web is full of stories about her).

Let all prostitution cases be handled only by female cops: something akin to SVU, only that all members will be female. That should cut down on a whole lot of abuse.

Just a thought...

snigdhasen 5 pts

I'll buy into all the arguments here that crime and abuse are not the same as "consensual sex".

And I totally agree that rape and abuse are about power and not sex, and sex needs to be protected from that abuse. (However, do remember the law about statutory rape.)

And no I don't think homosexuality can be clubbed with this either.

In an ideal scenario, the "consensual paid-for sex" seems okay (although I am still not sure how consensual it's going to be, especially if this is your full-time job) in the sense that it hurts nobody. But doesn't it? Will families not be hurt? Can you be so sure that your spouse will not be hurt?

Cheating hurts and I am not totally convinced that it is only a factor of social morals. I think it's also got to do with our basic instincts.

Also, I don't agree that if you don't support prostitution you also think sex is bad. Not at all. In fact I think sex has a very special place in relationships.

But here's a question -- It appears to me that America is quite liberal as far as sex is concerned. Sex before marriage is by and large not taboo. And if you are unattached, then nothing's stopping you. So why do we see such a high demand for (and supply of) prostitutes?

This is not just about sex. This is also about money and power.

Countries are experimenting with legalizing it. So far with little success, as the NYT column has pointed out, except Sweden. Before we jump to conclusions, it may be wise to study and learn from such experiments.

This is still moot. I am open to ideas and I don't have a whole lot of hang-ups about it and my arguments are not guided by any religion either.

For those who want it legalized, I'd like to know what laws you have in mind. Who gets what rights, will there be a minimum age (what will that age be), etc etc.

After all, laws on marriage, divorce, etc will change once this becomes legal.

More ideas please...

[P.S. "Women would also be free to use prostitutes. Prostitutes are sometimes straight men that straight women could contract for services while the husband stays home and helps raise children." ---
Denise, it sounds ideal, but here's the deal. If women were really into this that much, male prostitution would already be a thriving underground business, the same way female prostitution is. It is not, which tells me that even if it is legalized, it will continue to be a female-dominated business. And if it becomes a business, it will be competitive. Our bodies will become the USP. Will we still be writing letters to our bodies then? After all, we will have to serve up what the customer wants, right? Will feminists then be able to raise their voices against the notion of "ideal bodies", argue about normal sex against pornographic sex, and so forth? Just wondering...]

So far it seems to me what you ladies are suggesting is a bit utopian. May not pan out practically.

Hmmmmmmmm......thinking...thinking....
Thanks
Snigdha

alyssaroyse 5 pts

BUT that assumes that degradation and harm are inherent, and that is a value call. not a universal truth.

harm can be mitigated (i'm not saying eliminated altogether) by the ability to not only form a union (i can't believe i'm saying that, i am typically not a union person) but report abuse to authorities.

and again,t eh degradation has to do with the larger issues of how society treats sex, much less the people who "do it."

i really think that daylighting the whole sexual spectrum that is humanity and regulating the "industry" rather than the "acceptable behavior" is a way to make it happier and healthier for everyone.

and, i dunno, the sarcastic wench that lives in me saw the news report of $4,300 for a night and thought, "i've spent 2 years building a company to save the world and haven't yet been able to pay myself. 4 nights a month and i could make payroll. gotta more fun that all those VC pitches." i wouldn't do it, because it's not who i am, but i can't look down on the people who do. i'd like to protect them.
___________
Alyssa Royse
JUST CAUSE
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Liz Rizzo 5 pts

I'm still figuring out where I stand on the legalization of prostitution, but I was definitely feeling Amanda Marcotte's view at Pandagon: http://tinyurl.com/2afofd

"Prostitution is a unique labor market. Most labor markets, the value of the labor can be separated in some sense from the mistreatment of the workers. You hire someone to make widgets, and the struggles are over benefits, safety standards, etc., but at no point do the workers and the bosses struggle over whether or not widgets are to be made. But when degradation and harm are the work itself, struggling over labor standards becomes confusing."

Liz Rizzo ( http://blogher.org/blog/liz-rizzo )

I blog at Everyday Goddess ( http://everydaygoddess.typepad.com/ ).

alyssaroyse 5 pts

Not surprisingly, you hit the nail on the head.

The specious and rhetorical arguments that sex - which is, by definition, consensual and between adults - is somehow inherently links to other crimes, urges and degrading activities does not hold water.

The problem is almost NEVER the act itself, it is the lying, cheating and crime that surrounds it. which gets back to my previous statement that there are 2 very different problems that need to be addressed.

1. legalizing it make sit possible to regulate it. etc...
2. but the issues of urges is a different one, and it has to do with society decriminalizing sex. and i'm sorry, but even if they are not literal laws on the book, we still heavily marginalize anyone who's sexual needs are outside the perceived "norm." and yes, that causes people to hide in closets or other dark places.....

there is NO connection between sex, murder or other violent crimes. as a TIRELESS advocate for sexual abuse survivors 9and a survivor myself) it is IMPERATIVE that we understand that rape and incest are crimes of violence and power. they are not SEX crimes. there is no sex in them. just violence and power.

sex - no matter how you like to do it - is a consensual act between adults.

crime is not. abuse is not. incest is not.

those are separate issues and not connected.

but a regulated and open industry is one way to put a dent in the crime related to prostitution. a more open and accepting society is one way to put a dent in the need for prostitutes int he first place.

and no, as long as it's consensual, i don't think it's okay to expect people to deny their sexual needs and identities. we asked gay people to do that for ages, and i don't think that any of us would suggest a return to that.

___________
Alyssa Royse
JUST CAUSE
make some good news!
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Denise 9 pts moderator

Women would also be free to use prostitutes. Prostitutes are sometimes straight men that straight women could contract for services while the husband stays home and helps raise children.

And prostitution, like homosexuality, is all too quickly lumped into the "is it ok to kill?" "is it ok to be a pedophile" grouping. Having consensual sex with adults is not equal to murder and it is not equal to abusing children. It doesn't belong in a discussion with those two things.

And there lies the problem with legalizing prostitution.

We, as a society, don't look at sex in a way that would remove the stereotyping and stigmas that go hand in hand with prostitution.

~Denise
BlogHer Community Manager

Flamingo House Happenings ( http://www.flamingohouse.net )

snigdhasen 5 pts

Suzanne, I see your point.

I have considered this option several times in my life. But I am not yet convinced it will work. A few thoughts:

a) Just because it's legal, doesn't necessarily translate into less trafficking. Why should it? Now you have a free pass to do it. Just the way the government insists from time to time that we need to encourage children to study science and engineering because the country needs more scientists (and many parents push their kids towards these lucrative career paths), are we now going to have the freedom to encourage young girls to choose this career because there's a rising demand? There will always be demand for sex.

b) I think the family system will collapse. Point is, will I be okay if my husband visits prostitutes while I sweat it out and raise his (our) children? I am not sure about that. What about my "natural urges"?

c) Where do we draw the line? Humans have urges, but sometimes we need to control them for the greater good of society. We are, after all, social beings. So, now, if I have a strong urge to kill, should that be legalized? What about pedophiles? Or, say, I am walking down the road, and have a strong urge to pee. No facility in sight. We are trained to hold it in until we reach a facility. But it is a natural urge and doctors say holding it in for too long can infect your bladder, right? So, should we just pee on the streets?

d) I have been to Amsterdam and seen the ladies on display behind glass windows. Very pretty women, but NOT a pretty sight.

e) When I think about legalizing this profession, I ask myself: can I offer prostitution as a career option to my daughter? I think all men who want this legalized should ask themselves the same question. Will they be okay if their wives, sisters or daughters choose prostitution as a career?

But, I do feel for the girls and women who are trapped into this profession....

The Swedish approach is interesting. I can live with that.

Hmmm....Will have to wait for that one magic formula.

Glad you brought this up, Suzanne

Snigdha

pbr90 5 pts

Among the easiest methods of increasing demand for Prostitution is by making it legal. When demand is increased, the price goes down, and the need for supply becomes imperative; that leads to trafficking.

The rush to the bottom is not the best solution for prostitution.

More ideal - to prevent trafficking - with its commensurate violence - is to keep it illegal, and have the police or FBI enforce it, and fine both John and hooker to fund the police as incentives and to fund government so that lower taxes can be an option.

Funding prisons for violent crimes makes sense. Prostitution is not a victimless crime since inducement plus economic discrimination produces supply, currently, because of demand. To deter it and prevent trafficking, prostitution must be illegal which also helps to avoid men from using teens and children in their insatiable demand to satisfy only themselves by using other humans.

alyssaroyse 5 pts

I'd really like to solve the "prostitution problem" two ways.

1. make it legal
2. make it unnecessary

as you point out, making it legal makes it possible to also make it safer. it offers legal protections to sex workers that would protect them from both physical violence and make benefits (such as unionization) possible that could help them get things like better medical care. that, in turn, could have an impact on the sexual / physical health of themselves, their patrons and the lovers of their patrons. and, at $4,300 a night, i'm thinking the tax revenue could be used in a variety of health care and education ways.

but ideally, i'd like it to be unnecessary. i still fantasize about a society in which people's sexual proclivities are not demonized. where lovers can say to each other, "i am really into X" without fear of repercussion, and the hope of finding compatible and fulfilling unions that don't result in lying, cheating, risky behavior and yes, the need for prostitutes.

we're getting closer to accepting homosexuality. now we can address "kinks," right?

and, to be clear, i do not, IN ANY CASE, think that lying is okay. not to one's partner. and not to one's self.

nice post suzanne! (as always.)
___________
Alyssa Royse
JUST CAUSE
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Jill Miller Zimon 5 pts

Regardless of what the law says about it, we do know it to be a betrayal - or at least a possible betrayal, depending on the circumstances. And, as some others say, if you are in a position of public trust, you don't get yourself in blackmail situations. Sigh - I hate saying that but I think there's some merit to it.

Jill
Writes Like She Talks ( http://www.writeslikeshetalks.com )

super des 5 pts

I think prostitution should be legalized, because then it would be regulated. Prostitutes would be protected from disease and pregnancy, and receive proper treatment if they did need it. It would provide jobs, and let's face it, some girls like to have sex. If they can make a living doing it, even better.

This is not turning out to be a very coherent rant, but the point is that there is nothing wrong with the act of prostitution other than someone decided it should be against the law.

Suzanne 5 pts

It's true that it is increasingly profitable for private companies and small towns to keep prisons full. I didn't even think about that aspect of the legal issue. Excellent point!

Suzanne Reisman ( http://blogher.org/member/suzanne ), Contributing Editor - Feminism & Gender ( http://blogher.org/topic/feminism-gender )
Campaign for Unshaved Snatch (CUSS)& Other Rants ( http://cussandotherrants.com/ )

theprisonerswife 5 pts

I think that it's a very interesting idea to legalize the sex trade. America parades itself as a moral country, while a lot of the culture we export is extremely sexual & violent in nature. I think outlawing prostitution is our way of saying we are somehow righteous & good. I think it works the same for drugs. Why haven't we legalized (or at least decriminalized drug use?). I think it's for monetary reasons. Without illegal sex & drugs and the violence that results from its illegal status, what would law enforcement do?

~~
Gimme Love: http://theprisonerswife.blogspot.com