Great observation, Heather. I've thought of that myself. I like and support the "mommy blogger" community, but on top of the support system there are also a lot of group blogs that have been started. Where are the hip, interesting, communal sites for SINKs (or DINKs)? :)

Keep Up With Me

I love that blogher is expanding out to reach many different social groups.  Everyone has made a valid point in their own right and I've  been a SINK, DINK and a mommy blogger so I deffinently understand all point of views.  Yes I am an infamous mommy blogger but it makes up for what I lack as parent <sad but true>  Half my childs life I've been in Iraq so sometimes he's all I can think about and your right mommy bloggers click alot because of shared experiences but you will see that SINKS and DINKS do to.  Just not to many on this site that get together but I'm proud to see that it's finially happening.  Just wish it would have happened a few years ago for me. :) 

-*soldier85*-

The lovely Stacy of Jurgen Nation has a little something in the works.

I'm glad that someone agrees though. I fretted over sounding overly critical of parent bloggers, which I am most certainly not, BUT, I do find it interesting how businesses and advertisers throw themselves at them and we SINKs and DINKs get no love.

Though I was thinking about this earlier and it could all just be a passing fad and parents are probably thinking 'FINALLY! We get recognition'. Who knows. And I'm just interested to know what others think of the subject.

Heather B.
Personal Blog: No Pasa Nada
BlogHer CE: Business, Career & Personal Finance

I won't be defined by letters... stay at home, no kids.. Nope, not going there. And middle aged? And a crafter? We live in our own great world that nobody else knows exists.

Atleast the crafters are beginning to come up with some interesting community sites. I'm glad to see that the SINKs are working something... I'll show up to play the role of "favorite childless aunt" in comments there. Promise.

And if you decide to pull up stakes and become an alpaca farmer, I will stand and cheer you on and cover you with bloggetdy love. I may even lend you my Border Collie (Ok, Jake would be clueless but really enthusiastic).

Debra
A Stitch In Time
Deb's Daily Distractions

Hey, thanks for the snaps! HB is right, to anyone interested - I am developing a site which will act as a portal and intermediary for finding new non-nicheable bloggers and giving them (us!) the exposure they deserve. It's a lofty goal, but I'm going to do what I can. If anyone is a web designer and can help rather quickly, please contact me!! And, if you're interested, go here to sign up for the newsletter, in which I'll notify of timelines and developments. I've got everything sketched out, I just need to implement. I hope to see you there!! :) And thanks, Heather! Smooches!

This is so true and a huge reason why I've slacked on blogging lately. I think 'no one cares' and that I should just get pregnant to be more popular in the blogosphere. But I don't want to! I love my single life (I am dating, but not married) without children at this point, and I love writing about it.

I do wish we (SINK's) had more of a support system / group. I'm def interested in finding out what Jurgen has in store! :) Thanks!

I'm a mom, but not a mommy blogger, and I don't blog much about marriage either, although I'm married. I blog mostly about getting drunk with my friends, my social life, and my deep thoughts - and it never occured to me that I would get more traffic or support if I was a mommy blogger.(Actually, I might get less support for acting like a slightly less traditional mom - that's sure the case on the playground.)

It's not me, though, to blog about being a mom. Perhaps I'm just too self-centered. In any case, the blogs I like the most are about the lives of the authors, removed from the labels they are given - parent, single, married, crafter, etc. And to be perfectly honest, I sort of roll my eyes at the Mommy Blogger cult.

On the other hand, I have a pretty great social life, but I'm not one of the fabulous single girls in the city bloggers, either. So I don't fit into any category.

This is a very interesting point - I wonder how many other bloggers feel they, too, are not in a niche?

HB, I'm so glad you wrote about this - I was wondering whether it would be picked up by BlogHer, which seems to be a big hub of mommybloggers (naturally, since it's BlogHER and mommys are generally HERs and such).

I'd be interested in hearing from some of the moms out there who ARE mommybloggers. I haven't read all the comments on JNs site, but *on this entry, at least* it seems like the only ones rallying behind this are the non-moms.

jes

Well, hopefully people can see it for what it is. I only mention the Mommy Bloggers because their network is so solid and it would be nice to have something for the "others" while looking toward the Moms for inspiration, because obviously they're doing something right. I'm certainly not excluding anyone, including anyone already in a "niche." I just want to help bring the personal blogger to a network where they can meet others who are like-minded.

Just so that's clear. I'm worried that someone might misinterpret my intent.

Obviously..but it's not just about whether or not someone is a mommyblogger, it's that there are niches for parents, foodies, knitting, etc, but some of us are kind of just floating on by.

P.S. I LOVE mommy bloggers, have I mentioned that?? Is it even PC to call them 'mommy bloggers'? Because I always feel bad when using that term.

Heather B.
Personal Blog: No Pasa Nada
BlogHer CE: Business, Career & Personal Finance

Ooh. Good clarification. Some of my favorite bloggers are mommybloggers, but not BECAUSE they are mothers. I like them for their writing style.

I guess I'm just curious for others to weigh in on this, whether it's advice from the MBs re: how to make this a success, or thoughts from others on what they think of the idea.

jes

...in American society today is being an adult woman who has decided not to have children -- yet or permanently.

Great posts, Stacy and Heather. I have a couple of thoughts.

Stacy, I see from your blog that you are starting a new site, which is terrific. I also suggest we carpe diem right here on BlogHer and the SINKs and DINKs follow the example of parenting bloggers to demand a soapbox of their own. Is this something we could/should cover in the Life topic area? Would you like to cover the topic Life - Single once or twice a week as a contributing editor? Heather, want to help out? Let's raise the profile of the community.

This is, after all, how the mommybloggers zoomed from obscurity into the blogging force that they are today, both here and everywhere. As those of you who were at the first BlogHer conference in '05 witnessed, a number of mommybloggers also experienced the same feelings of being sidelined and overlooked that you describe. Which led to Alice Bradley proclaiming that "mommyblogging can be a radical act" in the closing session and Jenn Satterwhite, Jenny Lauck and Meghan Townsend launching Mommybloggers along with countless debates about the term. I even tried to describe the topic as "Family" rather than as "Mommy & Family" and got my hat handed to me in our '05 survey (more here).

Now it is, indeed, your turn to say, "enough!" Bravo. I see something terrific happening: You all are carving out your own space. You are on the cusp of something essential and important for the growing number of proudly single women whose important role (and economic force) slips through the cracks because other folks haven't figured it out. I don't know if you saw my post on the Women's Voices Women Vote campaign aimed at the 20 million single women who did not vote in Election 2004? Gifted pollster Anna Greenberg studied the issue and found (my words not hers) that, "Disenfranchised by spin, working hard for our money, utterly ignored by candidates and lacking a balanced source of information, our single women voters tune out and go back to taking care of our immediate circle." I can believe that.

The question is what you will do with your insights and how you will rabble-rouse around it. I like the approach you're taking Stacy -- and the way you're picking up the torch Heather -- because your approach is pro-active. And that seems really appropriate to me. Now that blogging tools exist, we no longer have to wait for anyone to ask us what we think or give us permission to publish an opinion on their editorial page. It's a do-ocracy as I wrote on the original BlogHer site; all we have to do is the do part.

I think you'll get huge support from other women, regardless of their own personal status. Stacy, I love that you and I met at BlogHer '06 on Thursday night because a mommyblogger introduced us. I was running around like a crazy woman when Chris of Notes in the Trenches marched up to me and said, "Get over here! You MUST meet this woman. Her photographs are AMAZING. She's fascinating." And dragged me over to meet you. And that's the kind of solidarity and support I think this cause will get from many women who do have kids, married (like Chris) and not married (like me).

As for the advertisers you invoke Heather, I can confirm from my work on sponsored women's networks ranging from Women.com to Glam.com that the grand majority seek WOMEN ages 18-54 who control a $5 trillion spending market. That's whether we have partners or offspring in the house/ Women control 83 percent of household spending. Mothers are easier to message to (I say this as one) because we experience dependable life changes that require spending -- underpants are required once diapers are not, etc. But SINKs and DINKs are even more atrractive in some ways -- more disposable income for travel, electronics, real estate and other goodies. I see this as an untapped opportunity for SINKs -- you're in the process of solving how these advertisers could find you, and we'd be thrilled -- here on BlogHer.org and also via BlogHerAds -- to help attract them.

One final note: SINKs are one example of an entire swath of womanhood seeking a higher profile. And there are more: Last night I had the pleasure of meeting Charlie Anders, who with Annalee Newitz edited "She's such a GEEK," a collection of women's writings about "science, technology and other nerdy stuff." How isolated do women in technology feel? As Xeni Jardin says on Anders'/Newitz' book jacket, "[S]ome of jus are number-crunching, pocket-protector-wielding, she-nerd equation machines. Now deal with it." These sentiments pervaded the advanced technology section at BlogHer '06. For more, check out the Deeply Geeky initiative that folks like Laura Scott and Nancy White started after this summer's conference.

In that spirit, thanks for bringing the conversation here because supporting this kind of work is why BlogHer exists.

Let's do it.

Lisa Stone
BlogHer Co-founder
Surfette

Lisa, That was just the type of confirmation that I was looking for from the community - something to let us know: "This is a good idea. You should do it!"

Getting feedback from such an important community - one where we've all grown both as individuals and bloggers - is essential, regardless of whether that feedback is positive, negative or constructive.

Thank you!

jes

You know what's funny is that, as I was reading Heather's post it occurred to me that I could think of all kinds of reasons for BlogHers to build networks.

Is there a support network for teen bloggers? My 17-year old daughter blogs and I think having an online network of other young women to share experiences, etc., with would be great for her.

Is there a network of women who own small businesses? There are all kinds of WOB groups locally and nationally but I haven't come across any for women business owners who blog -- and, of course, almost all the top small business bloggers are men.

I do hear what is being said here and I agree. I was appalled when Working Woman magazine went "on hiatus," while Working Mother continued to thrive because advertisers somehow couldn't get the hang of advertising to women in the business world but they could deal with pitching their products to moms.

I am a mother but I have always resented being treated by marketers as if that was the most (or only) important thing about me. So I would love to see the SINKs and DINKs experience some monetary success here, because that's a lesson about women that both advertisers and politicians need to learn. It's almost as if, for them, we have no identity if we have no children.

I say, 'go for it!' I'm behind you.

Cheers!
Dawn

Dawn Rivers Baker writes The Journal Blog
- where business and politics meet the mind of a wise-ass

I am soon ending 2 years of being an active participant in my local Democratic Party, including being my Assembly District's representative to the California Demo. Party executive board. It has been an endless source of frustration to me that I am not represented in all of their montages of the "real people" that they are working for. Every woman depicted in brochures and in the endless slide shows shown between speakers is either:

a) a nurse/doctor
b) a teacher
c) amongst a group of police or firefighters
d) Or depicted as part of a family (with or without husband, but definitely with kids.)

Where was I, the single, childless woman?

Where was I, the business woman?

Not in the picture.

Bugged me every single time, every single meeting I went to.

Elisa Camahort
BlogHer and Worker Bees
elisa@blogher.org/elisa@workerbees.biz

I would mention it to folks who just kind of glazed over...I'm sure thinking they had bigger fish to fry. But I think it's a pretty big fish to make millions of your target audience feel marginalized!

Elisa Camahort
BlogHer and Worker Bees
elisa@blogher.org/elisa@workerbees.biz

As a Mother first and Mommyblogger second, I have to admit that I started blogging because I was spending all day with two 11 month olds and needed an outlet where I could speak in full sentences.

I will say that 1) I completely understand where you guys are coming from, especially Heather because I have actually been there. I agree that I had a lot more disposeable income when I was 23. However, being in my 30's now with a sngle income and two kids we're still pulling in more than twice the amount of money that I was making straight out of college. 2) I think that putting together more networks for single ladies is a fantastic idea.

Okay, the third thing that is impossible to understand until you actually have kids (especially little kids) is how dramamtically different your life becomes when you become a mother. It is shocking how much you lose your sense of self when your entire world revolves around other people who absolutely need you for every single aspect of life. At the same time it is wonderful and can't be compared to anything else. We need each other to make sure that we aren't crazy, and we aren't screwing up our kids, and just to confirm that we aren't the only ones with vomit in our hair.

I have lots of friends without kids. I read a lot of blogs that aren't Mommyblogs. I can absolutely see where Heather is coming from here, but I think if and or when you decide to have children you will see how badly you need the other mothers. Part of it is community, part of it is desperation, but most of it is the understanding. Having someone to say, yes I know what you mean - and really mean it makes all the difference in the world when you spend all day and night every day and every night, not being "Sarah" or "Heather" but being "Mommy".

BlogHer Contributing Editor, Sports and Fitness
Sarah and the Goon Squad
Draft Day Suit

The site will be up soon - hopefully this weekend.

Again, this network is not exclusive. It doesn't matter if you're a parent or not a parent or anything else. We are all, whether we realize it or not, fit into a million different categories a day. We identify with some of them and we're appalled with some of them. I don't think anyone disputes or doesn't understand mothers needing outlets. I think that's why, as I've been saying, the Moms have such a strong network. But a lot of people *don't* have a network, and this is a place where they can go to as well as ANYONE else who wants to because he or she enjoys writing for the sake of writing.

I had the pleasure of talking about this with Lisa yesterday, and I'll write here what I told her was my reason for starting this. At BlogHer, a friend and I were sitting in one of the break out groups when we were asked to describe our blogs and how we'd classify it. We looked at each other in horror. We're not humorists - what kind of person actually goes around saying, "I'm funny! I'm a humorist!" Nobody calls him or herself that; rather, other people classify them as such. She and I aren't parents (to non-animals), foodies. We have "personal" blogs, people say. That sounds so droll and I wouldn't want to read mine if it were described in that way at all. It was funny yesterday because I spit out to Lisa without thinking about it fully, when actually it is THE definition of why this NEEDS to happen. As I described my friend and I being in this situation I said, "how do you describe to someone that you're writing a blog about yourself without sounding like a self-important ass?"

And that's it. I'll stress it again: it doesn't matter who you are or what category you're in. What matters is that so many of us write about "stuff," but it's so much more than that. Too many outsiders think that writing outside of a niche means that you're "just" a blogger who has nothing of value to say. I take exception to that. I will probably never get published. That's fine. But I'd like to think that, even writing about my life, I add something to blogging or writing in general. And that has nothing to do with being single or childless or anything. It has to do with being outside of any group that is accepted by marketers and general public as "important" and "non-frivolous." Another repeat: I mentioned the Moms only because of the success they have had strengthening their own network. Lisa told me yesterday that the difference between 2005 and 2006 BlogHer conferences was that the Moms, from 2005, had banded together and, in one year, had become a solid network. That's a source of pride, that's huge. And I think any new network needs to look at that for inspiration. No one is minimizing the endeavor or parenthood in general. Rather, we're celebrating the fact that creating a network of support has been done and with such amazing success.

My goal may sound cheesy, but I want to change the way people view bloggers like me who just write about "stuff" because it's more than that. I'm doing this because I need it and I hope some others do, too. And the way it's going to be set up is, again, not exclusionary. Indie Bloggers is a showcase of writing that you might not see otherwise because the Blogosphere is huge. I look to the Moms for inspiration as to the strength of the community and I look to This American Life on NPR as to the content and the "showcase" aspect. It's about meeting new friends and reading new, amazing writing by someone who just started blogging or who has been blogging for years but, and this is the most important, who have been under the radar.

It's not about being in a niche. It's about not fitting into any category but chugging on anyway just for the simple fact that you like to write, and write WELL.

Wow. Holy ramble.

I just want everyone to understand that this isn't about being exclusive or negative. It's completely the opposite and EVERYONE is invited to submit. And it's coming - I'm working on the site now. I bought the domain name, so we're official: it will be at www.indiebloggers.org.

Until then, if you're interested in helping or participating, please e-mail me at stacy@jurgennation.com. The mailing list server is currently down, but there will be one shortly. This literally all came about the morning I wrote the post, so I'm doing what I can to make it come alive. And I hope to get your support because I'm really proud of this and think it could dovetail very nicely into the BlogHer networks. It's just about writing, showcasing it and getting exposure to those who might not reach many people otherwise.

It's exciting to see all of the comments and commentary that have been written about this topic. Like I told Stacy, this is a niche that I've been wanting to see expanded for quite some time. I think it might inspire some people to participate that aren't already, as well as provide a central gathering place for like-minded people (or just the curious!). I'm excited to see where this takes us. :)

Keep Up With Me

I am so completely touched and motivated from all the support this has been getting. Just a quick note to let everyone know that we're live. I don't know how the H it happened so fast, but we're actually up and running. If you want to know more, please click the newsletter archive, which is the main repository of what's going on and how it all works. Then, if you want to join - and I hope you do - join through the main page.

Essentially, I've set it up so that EVERYONE will be published. The main page is reserved for the "Showcase" of featured posts, but I also thought it would be more fair and more in line with my underlying point of the entire site (exposure) to also include a page that includes ALL member's posts. It works via feed. So, basically, if you can't find new writers and great posts through either of those, let me know because I'm doing something wrong. As I've been saying, it's all-inclusive - FOR EVERYONE. If you want to be a part of it, please sign up. I'd love to see you over there.

The Features page works like this: if you sign up, you're automatically assigned the role of "Contributor." You can log into the site, write and submit a post. It will only allow you to save as a draft once you're finished, as Featured Entries have to be checked over for hidden code and generally approved for content. The more you submit/contribute the more your "trusted" level goes up and eventually you'll just be able to write, save and publish automatically. I want to reserve approvals first, though, because I really want to keep the main page as a showcase of the best of the best.

Anyway. I think I'm done rambling. :)

Along with Stacy, I'm floored that this has been met with a very positive response, not only here but via email and well it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy about the internet. Stacy is the brilliant one, but I'm all for pimping. Gah, I'm so excited about this project. Wheeee!

Heather B.
Personal Blog: No Pasa Nada
BlogHer CE: Business, Career & Personal Finance

This is too exciting for words! I joined! I linked! Now I'd better go write something. Thank you Heather B - it was this post of yours that led me to Indie Blogs! Wheeeee indeed!

www.neasa.typepad.com

One of the things that I have noticed about being a SINK blogger is the lack of community. I have made blog friends but it isn't the same as the Mommy Bloggers. Thank goodness I'm not alone!

Since this post was the harbinger that brought about the new Life/Singles category, I'd like to thank Heather for bringing this subject to everyone's attention (not only for the Singles category, but places like Indie Blogger as well). :)

Keep Up With Me