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Conversations about Saddam in Real Life and Second Life

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As news of Saddam Hussein’s execution ricocheted across airwaves and cyberspace, I was anxious to find some informed and diverse conversation about it. So I did what any conversation-starved netizen would do: I teleported myself to Reuters’ Top News chatroom in Second Life. I hoped for a cross-cultural conversation, with people from the Middle East well-represented. What I found surprised me.

[Second Life is 3-D virtual reality platform that has become an important and controversial frontier for practicing journalism. Check out this video of Reporting from the Front panel discussion from last October’s State of Play conference at New York Law School to get a better idea of the controversy.]

I wondered whether I would meet people with reactions similar to those encountered by University of Iowa law professor Adrien Wing at Blackprof.com. Wing, who is traveling in Tunisia, notes that many Muslims are distressed that Saddam’s execution coincided with the celebration of Eid ul Adha, a sacred Islamic holiday honoring Abraham, whose obedience to God was so strong that he was willing to sacrifice his son Isaac on the Lord’s command. Wing also reports that while there was little grief expressed for Saddam, her Tunisian companions shared the skepticism that the execution reflected the will of the Iraqi people. The BBC found similar reactions in its reporting.

What would happen, I wondered, if those Muslims were in dialogue with someone such as Gina Cobb? Her comments on her Saddam execution linklist suggests that her sympathies lay with those who see the execution as a just outcome for the Iraqi people. Would they see her point of view, or would they share egalia’s horror at the barbarity of this moment?

When I reached the Reuters lounge, I did not find the rousing, multi-faceted debate I’d expected. Instead, I met an avatar named Teodor Zinner, whose owner described himself as an Iranian graduate student studying mechanical engineering in Texas. What follows is an edited transcript of our conversation, which he gave me permission to publish. I went looking for a conversation about Saddam’s execution. What I found a dialogue with someone as eager as I was to find a path to peace.

Note: This transcript was generated by the chat function in Second Life. The timestamps are Pacific Standard Time. “You” of course refers to my avatar which happens to have an Arabic first name. In Second Life, avatar’s names are displayed, which is why we are able to call each other by name.

[20:21] You: Hello Teodor
[20:21] Teodor Zinner: Hi Khadijah. How are you?
[20:21] You: I came here to see whether people were following the news about Saddam Hussein. I wondered whether people would come here to talk about it.
[20:22] Teodor Zinner: It's sad for me. I'm from Iran ;). Your name looks Arabic
[20:23] Teodor Zinner: are you from that region, Khadijah?
[20:23] You: Some Iraqi bloggers I've read says this strengthens Iran.
[20:23] You: Actually, I'm American, but my name is Arabic.
[20:23] Teodor Zinner: I'm not sure. Iran is in a weird situation. A maniac took over the country. I mean the president [Mahmoud Ahmadinejad], and now he is ruining the country. It is really sad
[20:24] You: I see that there is a great deal of protest within Iran.
[20:24] Teodor Zinner: I would personally be very happy to see Saddam hanged, however I'm against execution.
[20:25] You: But free expression has been restricted, from what I understand.
[20:25] Teodor Zinner: Yes sure people are against this maniac. There are many things restricted
[20:25] You: Why are you happy to see Saddam executed?
[20:25] Teodor Zinner: First is the freedom of speech.
[20:25] Teodor Zinner: Well, I'm happy to see dictators die.
[20:26] You: Yes, many Internet sites are blocked.
[20:26] Teodor Zinner: Yeah how do you know it? It is really interesting
[20:26] You: I am a journalist.
[20:26] Teodor Zinner: Wow, great.
[20:26] You: I follow these issues closely. I also have friends in the Middle East.
[20:27] Teodor Zinner: if you need any information I'll be happy to be of some help. I live in the US but I still have friends back home.
[20:27] You: Would you mind if I recorded our conversation?
[20:27] Teodor Zinner: No
[20:28] Teodor Zinner: So may I ask for what kind of media you work?
[20:29] You: I write for a couple of online news outlets.
[20:30]

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Kim Pearson 5 pts

Perhaps we could consider doing some of the conversations in Second Life? I think that the anonymity of SL facilitated our conversation. It would also be interesting to know what people would like to talk about.

BlogHer Contributing Editor ( http://www.blogher.com/<a )
Law and Journalism/Media
Professor Kim ( http://professorkim.blogspot.com )

Contributing Writer ( http://www.ojr.org/ojr/people/KimPearson ) Online Journalism Review

Birdie Jaworski 5 pts

I thoroughly enjoyed this exchange of ideas, Prof Kim. Thanks for letting us share your dialogue.

Lisa, I would very much enjoy such a scheduled discussion topic list. What a great addition to BlogHer!

Birdie
La Pajaro ( http://www.lapajaro.com )
Beauty Dish ( http://beautydish.typepad.com )

Lisa Stone 6 pts

if we held these kinds of discussions on a regular and scheduled basis, whether or not our governments do? As I mentioned ( http://www.blogher.com/node/13821#comment-13515 ) earlier in the week, some of the most important recommendations in The Iraq Study Group Report focus on dialogue, on talking it through -- as this community has done with so many topics in the past year.

I've learned an enormous amount from reading and listening to the other people on this site -- is it time to begin targeting topics for discussion and scheduling them in advance so that those of us interested can weigh in with questions, ideas, or simply attention?

And you are brilliant, Professor Kim, as always.

Lisa Stone
BlogHer Co-founder ( http://www.blogher.com/member/lisa-stone )
Surfette ( http://surfette.typepad.com )

ByJane 5 pts

Absolutely fascinating, Kim. Cross-cultural dialogue where you can ask the questions about the elephant in the room are so exciting, to say the least. I'm reading Lipstick Jihad now, which offers the perspective of an Iranian-American journalist reporting from Iran. It's another world over there, and yet it isn't. I'm amazed by the commonality.

By Jane
ByJane.blogspot.com

Kim Pearson 5 pts

It was exciting as it was happening. Both of said at various times -- "I hope I'm not boring you, but I really want to be able to ask these questions." I would love to have a chance for more conversations like this.

BlogHer Contributing Editor ( http://www.blogher.com/<a )
Law and Journalism/Media
Professor Kim ( http://professorkim.blogspot.com )

Contributing Writer< ( http://www.ojr.org/ojr/people/KimPearson )

ByJane 5 pts

Lisa,
I would so welcome a targeted, scheduled topic for conversation, and not just on the big issues, either. The cross-cultural, elephant-in-the-room questions that I was thinking about are often the ones we don't ask for fear of sounding racist, sexist, stupid-ist. But they are the very cultural things that often divide us, even though or when we don't know it.

For instance: Let's talk about hair. There are a plethora of cultural nuances in black hair, white hair, asian hair, latina hair. I want to know about them. I want to understand them. I understand the semiotics of hair, the political, but not the personal.

I'm thinking out loud here, but isn't one of the things most of us share is a concern for appearance? I remember before BlogHer '06, there was a lot of conversation about what to wear, new hair cuts, etc. Can we not reify this concern--remove it from the "silly woman's concern"--and make it part of our cross-cultural understanding? Maybe it's not just: the personal is political, but the physical is political as well.

By Jane
ByJane.blogspot.com

Erin Kotecki Vest 5 pts

Now if only everyone could just talk like this virtually or otherwise, I honestly think this entire world would be better off.

Thanks for sharing. This was great.
Politics & News Contributing Editor
Queen of Spain ( http://queenofspainblog.com/ )