Save the Complults for Someone Who Cares, Buddy

May 21, 2007 6:51 am by Suzanne Reisman in BlogHer Conferences

I had an interesting dream about the BlogHer conference last night. At the conference, I was having dinner with a woman (in my dream her name was Marlene) who objected to my use of foul language in my writing. I had been looking forward to meeting her for some time, and as we began chatting, I jokingly promised to watch my mouth and keep it clean, a pledge I intended to honor. While we were in a deep discussion about the time and place for swearing, I overheard the man on the other side of the table, who happened to be a fire captain, talking to my friend Alex.

Apropos of nothing, he suddenly said, “You know, you’d be really beautiful if you’d pluck your eyebrows better.”

Of course, this enraged me, and I cut into their conversation. “Do you understand how rude a comment like that is?”

“It’s a compliment,” he bristled, “and I’m just trying to help.”

“No, it’s not a compliment. It’s like me saying to you, ‘You know, you’d be handsome if you had a different face’ or ‘You’d be intelligent if you actually learned something.’” (It seems that I am good with the complults – compliments that are really insults – in my dreams.)

One thing led to another, and of course I broke my promise to Marlene and devolved into a torrent of f-bombs and other nasty language. Marlene sighed and moved away, but I was so into defending Alex’s honor that I didn’t even notice. (Incidentally, Alex has very nice eyebrows, both in the dream and in real life.)

When I woke up (thanks to a garbage truck parked outside the window of my ground floor apartment), I thought about what the dream meant. When do comments cross the line between “truth-telling” and offensive behavior? Does intention matter? Is this type of “helpful” comment only directed at women, or do men hear things like that too? For example, I know it is very common for girls and women to be told that they’d “be so pretty if only” they lost some weight, but I wonder if boys and men ever hear things like that. Was my aggressive response equally inappropriate or should I have let my friend fend for herself?

I will say that it felt very satisfying calling that guy out on his behavior.

Suzanne also blogs at Campaign for Unshaved Snathc (CUSS) & Other Rants and is very excited to attend the BlogHer conference, regardless of potential presence of sexist fire captains

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hmmm

Mir Kamin May 21, 2007 - 7:12am

You can defend my eyebrows any day, Suzanne. ;)

I think this was a classic wish-fulfillment dream, and I hope dream-Alex was pleased with your help. Seriously, though, I think men/boys DO hear the complults, just not about looks. In fact, I fear that many of our "spirited" boys are often hearing they'd be great students if only they stopped [fill in the blank], which seems like a reasonable thing to say until you realize that what they end up hearing is "You'd be a great student if only you weren't you."

So, no, I don't think it's just a female thing. The emphasis on looks, though, that part is.

--
Mir from WCS
(BlogHer Mommy & Family contributing editor)

Personal: Woulda Coulda Shoulda

Having it all with less: Want Not

 

Boys would be x if they did y....

Denise May 21, 2007 - 5:28pm

My thought about boys was that they do hear this all of the time but more along the lines of "You'd be a better ball player if you _____." Not so much about studies but about sports.

~Denise
Fast Times @ Homeschool High & Flamingo House Happenings

 

Ugggg...the dreaded

jes May 21, 2007 - 7:26am

Ugggg...the dreaded complults - I've always called these complicuts - lurk in a few of my "friendships." Unfortunately, for me, I haven't mastered a comeback. Yet.

jes

 

Great post Suzanne!

Catherine Morgan May 21, 2007 - 7:50am

Great post Suzanne! It reminded me that there is no defense for the current state of my eyebrows these days...and I should probably take care of this situation before I bump into the "man of your dreams" at the BlogHer conference.

But what really got me thinking was this...

When do comments cross the line between “truth-telling” and offensive behavior? Does intention matter?

I think "intent" is what we need to look out for, sometimes I (and I'm sure most of us) have been guilty of saying something that we meant one way, but when it actually came out of our mouth could have been interpreted as offensive. Sometimes this will happen to me and I realize right-away and I correct myself. But other times hours or even days go buy before I realize that what I said could have been mis-interpreted. When ever this happens I always feel bad, because it's too late to correct my faux pas, and I just have to hope the other person didn't take what I said the wrong way.

Catherine Morgan
Women 4 Hope and Be The Change You Want To See In Yourself

 

Intention and Complults

Suzanne Reisman May 21, 2007 - 8:38am

Catherine, your comment brought up a good example of how good intentions in these types of situations can go horribly awry. At one point when I was in high school, I was in a funk because it didn't seem like I'd ever have a boyfriend. My dad tried to cheer me up by saying that if I lost weight, wore makeup and dressed better, he was sure that someone would want to date me. The poor man really thought he was helping my with this advice, and was totally blind-sided by the invective I hurled at him. Today, I laugh about how clueless his well-meaningness was, but it hurt like hell at the time. And he was also hurt that I reacted that way when he just wanted to help me.

Suzanne, BlogHer Contributing Editor - Feminsim & Gender
Campaign for Unshaved Snatch (CUSS)& Other Rants

 

Sounds like my dad

kperfetto May 21, 2007 - 10:47am

I hate stereotyping, but men, it seems more than women, server up complults under the guise of "just trying to help."

Frankly, if the alternative is walking around with spinach in my teeth or my skirt tucked into my panties all day, I'll take the complult over the "snickering behind the back." I know that's not even close to "You'd be prettier if you lost some weight," but I dunno, I can that honesty coming from a good friend or a trusted family member. Stings though.

  • Five Dollar Camera
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    When do comments cross the

    Bill Cammack May 21, 2007 - 9:02am

    When do comments cross the line between “truth-telling” and offensive behavior?

    "Truthful" and "Offensive" are not mutually exclusive. You can tell someone they're physically out of shape, and while they may take offense.... it's still true. :)

    I see what you're saying, though. Where's the line between someone constructively criticizing for the benefit of the other person and just being a jerk?

    Does intention matter?

    I think it does. In your dream scenario, what was said isn't so much a compliment as constructive criticism. According to the fire captain, what's throwing HIM off from seeing your friend as beautiful is the condition of her eyebrows. That doesn't mean that someone who comes from a society where the women have eyebrows similar to hers don't find her stunning right now, and would find her LESS attractive if she followed his advice. So he's giving her good advice... on how to look good TO HIM. :)

    As far as these compliment/insults in general, I think it makes a difference whether the person can do something about it or not. You don't want to tell someone "your nose hooks to the left if I look at you from straight on", because they can't help that. If you tell them about something they can actually 'fix', they might do it and feel better about themselves because of it. Also, like I said before, it makes a difference whether the criticism is useful to the complainER or the complainEE.

    Is this type of “helpful” comment only directed at women, or do men hear things like that too? For example, I know it is very common for girls and women to be told that they’d “be so pretty if only” they lost some weight, but I wonder if boys and men ever hear things like that.

    Men might get criticism about clothing choices. Like if you let your wife dress you up in Health Tex shirts and other clothes that make you look like an idiot or a little kid, a guy might tell you you need to change your wardrobe. Also, criticism about hygiene, like they need to try a different cologne or more deodorant, hahahaha :D

    --
    Bill Cammack
    Video Editor
    BillCammack.com

     

    I agree with Jes. I've got

    Dana J. Tuszke May 21, 2007 - 9:35am

    I agree with Jes. I've got a few friends who'd say these things, "You could be this if you did that". I hated those things. I sometimes wonder if these are ways for my "friends" to insult me, without really insulting me, to make themselves feel better.

    Dana from The Dana Files.

     

    Complults- that is hilarious!

    julesschroom May 21, 2007 - 12:50pm

    Like most of the posters said, it all depends on the intent but it also depends on the presentation. While there are some friends that will give you an even amount of compliments and praise, along with constructive criticism, there are the jerks that never met a backhanded-compliment they didn't like- those are the people I try to avoid and ignore.

     

    There's that famous old

    iasshole May 21, 2007 - 9:08pm

    There's that famous old story about two people at a party--Oscar Wilde, maybe.

    "You, Sir, are drunk!"

    "You're right, and you're ugly. But tomorrow morning I'll be sober."

     

    Re: There's that famous old

    bobafifi May 21, 2007 - 9:37pm

    I thought that was Winston Churchill and Lady Astor? But it looks like it may be Churchill to Bessie Braddock:

    He was indeed very quick-witted; Labour MP Bessie Braddock once said to him "Winston, you're drunk!" and he replied "Yes, and you're ugly......but in the morning I shall be sober."
    http://www.funtrivia.com/askft/Question68711.html

    -Bob
    bobafifi.com

    usedviolins.com

    fluteplayer.net

     

    right-o

    super des May 22, 2007 - 7:01am

    I don't think men are subjected to compults. Maybe teenage boys, but definitely not men. And I wonder if women are the perpetrators more than men.
    Great, now I have to pay attention to this.

     
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