Save the Complults for Someone Who Cares, Buddy

I don't think men are subjected to compults. Maybe teenage boys, but definitely not men. And I wonder if women are the perpetrators more than men.
Great, now I have to pay attention to this.

I thought that was Winston Churchill and Lady Astor? But it looks like it may be Churchill to Bessie Braddock:

He was indeed very quick-witted; Labour MP Bessie Braddock once said to him "Winston, you're drunk!" and he replied "Yes, and you're ugly......but in the morning I shall be sober."
http://www.funtrivia.com/askft/Question68711.html

-Bob
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There's that famous old story about two people at a party--Oscar Wilde, maybe.

"You, Sir, are drunk!"

"You're right, and you're ugly. But tomorrow morning I'll be sober."

My thought about boys was that they do hear this all of the time but more along the lines of "You'd be a better ball player if you _____." Not so much about studies but about sports.

~Denise
Fast Times @ Homeschool High ( http://fasttimes.clubmom.com ) & Flamingo House Happenings ( http://www.flamingohouse.net</a )

Like most of the posters said, it all depends on the intent but it also depends on the presentation. While there are some friends that will give you an even amount of compliments and praise, along with constructive criticism, there are the jerks that never met a backhanded-compliment they didn't like- those are the people I try to avoid and ignore.

I hate stereotyping, but men, it seems more than women, server up complults under the guise of "just trying to help."

Frankly, if the alternative is walking around with spinach in my teeth or my skirt tucked into my panties all day, I'll take the complult over the "snickering behind the back." I know that's not even close to "You'd be prettier if you lost some weight," but I dunno, I can that honesty coming from a good friend or a trusted family member. Stings though.

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I agree with Jes. I've got a few friends who'd say these things, "You could be this if you did that". I hated those things. I sometimes wonder if these are ways for my "friends" to insult me, without really insulting me, to make themselves feel better.

Dana from The Dana Files ( http://thedanafiles.com ).

When do comments cross the line between “truth-telling” and offensive behavior?

"Truthful" and "Offensive" are not mutually exclusive. You can tell someone they're physically out of shape, and while they may take offense.... it's still true. :)

I see what you're saying, though. Where's the line between someone constructively criticizing for the benefit of the other person and just being a jerk?

Does intention matter?

I think it does. In your dream scenario, what was said isn't so much a compliment as constructive criticism. According to the fire captain, what's throwing HIM off from seeing your friend as beautiful is the condition of her eyebrows. That doesn't mean that someone who comes from a society where the women have eyebrows similar to hers don't find her stunning right now, and would find her LESS attractive if she followed his advice. So he's giving her good advice... on how to look good TO HIM. :)

As far as these compliment/insults in general, I think it makes a difference whether the person can do something about it or not. You don't want to tell someone "your nose hooks to the left if I look at you from straight on", because they can't help that. If you tell them about something they can actually 'fix', they might do it and feel better about themselves because of it. Also, like I said before, it makes a difference whether the criticism is useful to the complainER or the complainEE.

Is this type of “helpful” comment only directed at women, or do men hear things like that too? For example, I know it is very common for girls and women to be told that they’d “be so pretty if only” they lost some weight, but I wonder if boys and men ever hear things like that.

Men might get criticism about clothing choices. Like if you let your wife dress you up in Health Tex shirts and other clothes that make you look like an idiot or a little kid, a guy might tell you you need to change your wardrobe. Also, criticism about hygiene, like they need to try a different cologne or more deodorant, hahahaha :D

--
Bill Cammack
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Catherine, your comment brought up a good example of how good intentions in these types of situations can go horribly awry. At one point when I was in high school, I was in a funk because it didn't seem like I'd ever have a boyfriend. My dad tried to cheer me up by saying that if I lost weight, wore makeup and dressed better, he was sure that someone would want to date me. The poor man really thought he was helping my with this advice, and was totally blind-sided by the invective I hurled at him. Today, I laugh about how clueless his well-meaningness was, but it hurt like hell at the time. And he was also hurt that I reacted that way when he just wanted to help me.

Suzanne ( http://www.blogher.com/member/suzanne ), BlogHer Contributing Editor - Feminsim & Gender ( http://www.blogher.com/topic/feminism-gender )
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Great post Suzanne! It reminded me that there is no defense for the current state of my eyebrows these days...and I should probably take care of this situation before I bump into the "man of your dreams" at the BlogHer conference.

But what really got me thinking was this...

When do comments cross the line between “truth-telling” and offensive behavior? Does intention matter?

I think "intent" is what we need to look out for, sometimes I (and I'm sure most of us) have been guilty of saying something that we meant one way, but when it actually came out of our mouth could have been interpreted as offensive. Sometimes this will happen to me and I realize right-away and I correct myself. But other times hours or even days go buy before I realize that what I said could have been mis-interpreted. When ever this happens I always feel bad, because it's too late to correct my faux pas, and I just have to hope the other person didn't take what I said the wrong way.

Catherine Morgan
Women 4 Hope ( http://women4hope.wordpress.com/ ) and Be The Change You Want To See In Yourself ( http://catherinemarie.wordpress.com/ )

Ugggg...the dreaded complults - I've always called these complicuts - lurk in a few of my "friendships." Unfortunately, for me, I haven't mastered a comeback. Yet.

jes ( http://www.chirky.com )

You can defend my eyebrows any day, Suzanne. ;)

I think this was a classic wish-fulfillment dream, and I hope dream-Alex was pleased with your help. Seriously, though, I think men/boys DO hear the complults, just not about looks. In fact, I fear that many of our "spirited" boys are often hearing they'd be great students if only they stopped [fill in the blank], which seems like a reasonable thing to say until you realize that what they end up hearing is "You'd be a great student if only you weren't you."

So, no, I don't think it's just a female thing. The emphasis on looks, though, that part is.

--
Mir from WCS
(BlogHer Mommy & Family contributing editor)

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