Would you refuse to pay your teen son's bail to teach him a lesson?
by NordetteA mother in Australia refused to pay her teenage son's bail and is calling on other parents to stop supporting their children when they break the law. I read about this family drama at News.com.au, and it reminded me of complaints I've heard about "modern parents" from older educators and others who grew up in the 30s, 40s, and perhaps 50s as well.
I remember my mother, a retired schoolteacher, complaining about what she called "these new parents" as far back as the mid 70s. She'd come home and say that she increasingly observed parents, usually mothers, verbally attack teachers who reported the bad behavior of these parents' children. Usually this type of mother would say something like, "Don't you talk about my child!"
I haven't seen one in a while, but I used to see these types of mothers sometimes as well. If an adult neighbor saw the mother's child doing something like throwing rocks and told him or her to stop, then the mother would yell at the neighbor, "Don't you tell my child what to do!" You know, it sort of throws a monkey wrench in the whole "it takes a village to raise a child" philosophy if mothers object to village participation.
My mother said that when she was a girl, parents didn't object to others correcting their children or reporting their children's misbehavior. If the teacher said you did something wrong, then you were in trouble at school and at home, and that was that.
Furthermore, my parents practiced this philosophy with my brother and me. If we behaved badly then we'd better pray no one reported our bad behavior to our parents, and when I say no one, I mean no one. My parents did not reserve their disciplining us for teacher reports only. If an adult church member or a neighbor said we'd behaved inappropriately, then we'd face the consequences.
As a result, we we didn't "act out" often. (My brother says he got into more trouble than I did, however.) Also, we were afraid to lie; therefore, we didn't deny bad reports. By and large if someone said we did something wrong and we did, we admitted it. However, we were not known for misbehaving in public. I admit that at home I got in trouble for being a "smart mouth."
I do remember two instances in which I was accused of something I did not do. I was punished for the first incident, but my mother apologized sincerely when the truth came out later that I had not done what I'd been accused of doing.
I was not chastised for the second incident. When I said I didn't do what I'd been accused of doing and also when my parents realized that the authority figure based her accusation on something another student said and not something she herself had witnessed, my parents supported my innocence.
Still, I had this uncomfortable sense of always being watched at school, at church, and walking down the street because it seemed like everyone in New Orleans knew someone from my family. Of course, that wasn't true, but it sure did feel like it. Also, I remember my mother telling me, "You don't know the sounds of love when you hear them." She said this usually when I complained about correction.
Do you know your own child?
If you know your child and he or she's accused of wrongdoing, you usually know if the accusation rings true. However, when the child adamantly denies he or she's done anything wrong, then the parent's left in a quandary. Do we as parents believe our children or not?
Yet there are incidents in which the parent knows his/her child is guilty. What do you make of parents who defend and support their children, whether minors or adults, when their offspring admit they did the crime or committed the offense of which they've been accused?
While the Australian mother shuns her son hoping he'll straighten out, we all probably know of parents who "fix" their children's mistakes, cover them up, and would do anything to keep them from facing harsh consequences for their deeds. The mother in Australia, however, said she wants to stop her child before he does something worse:
"The police do the best they can, I think it's time these parents woke up to themselves," the woman said.
Son arrested over 'series of offences'
The Bridgewater woman took the radical step after her son was arrested over a series of alleged offences last week. She has also refused to take her son's phone calls from the Hobart remand centre.
She does not want to reveal her identity for fear of reprisals.
"At the moment I am the worst mum in Bridgewater because I am not standing by his case . . . but I want my son off the streets while he's a thief before he becomes a murderer," she said. (News.com.au)
Do you think she's the "worst mother" for not standing by her son or is she a mother rightfully practicing "tough love" under the roughest circumstances?
Nordette Adams' personal blog is at this link.
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Comments
It's called "tough love" for
It's called "tough love" for a reason. I think she's doing the right thing. The right thing is often the difficult thing.
I think a mother who would bail her son out of jail for something he definitely did is doing the boy a disservice. Actions have consequences. When you break the law, you pay the consequences. Unless Mommy steps in and brings Bubbie home to his own wittle room, that is. Mean old cop, to inconvenience Mommy like that, and force Bubbie to have a tantrum.
If I believed my son was innocent, however, I would bail him out in a whipstitch. Guilty, though. . . jail is where he would belong.
"Minutus cantorum, minutus balorum, minutus carborata descendum pantorum."
Hope
I practice tough love often with my children but some would probably say not often enough. :-) I think if you practice it early by sticking to your guns about what seems to be small things such as refusing to write excuses for missed homework assignments when you know the child just didn't do the work, then it will be far less likely you find yourself having to make decisions about jail and bail. On the other hand, I bet there are parents out there who were/are excellent parents yet one of their children still lost his or her way, and there are also parents who do the best they can but struggle more than other parents to hold influence over their children because they live in areas where children are influenced by drug dealers and gang members. I've heard peer pressure can be a parents' strongest opponent.
Khalil Gibran's famous poem just crossed my mind:
And he said:
Your children are not your children.
They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.
They come through you but not from you,
And though they are with you, yet they belong not to you.
You may give them your love but not your thoughts
For they have their own thoughts.
You may house their bodies but not their souls,
For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.
You may strive to be like them, but seek not to make them like you.
For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.
You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.
The archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite, and He bends you with His might that His arrows may go swift and far.
Let your bending in the archer's hand be for gladness;
For even as he loves the arrow that flies, so He loves also the bow that is stable. (Khalil Gibran)
Probably a good read for those who suffer from parental guilt as well as for those who tend to be too controlling. Sometimes you need to let go.
I also like what I heard a minister say once. He said that sometimes parents do the best by their children but their children still go astray. Adam and Eve had the perfect parent, but look at what happened? LOL.
"Love is liquid. Brew and be drunkards!" ~~Nordette. And here's a link to the blog.
hurray for her!
I agree parents need to stop protecting thier kids from the consequences. We have a problem with our upstairs neighbors. Thier kids are thowing things off the balconey all the time. Last night it was a hockey puck that nearly hit my son who is 3.5 in the head. we have asked them to stop, we have reported it to the building manager, but the parents said last night We don't care! The kids have said we are being kicked out so who cares ( that time it was a hockey stick that nearly broke our window). This was 6 months ago and they are still here.
Scary!
Your situation makes me think of something I heard someone else say once, "If you had to meet an adult in a dark alley, who would you rather the adult be, someone raised with boundaries and discipline or someone raised to do as they pleased without consequence?"
"Love is liquid. Brew and be drunkards!" ~~Nordette. And here's a link to the blog.
This is a tough one.
Love that.
I agree with parents needing to practice tough love - but at the same point, I'm conflicted. If this is your child, at what point do you step back and hope that the authorities will be able to scare your kid straight? At what point does your influence and authority stop?
The Circus is in town!
Great question!
I don't think the answer is age 18 when we have a rapport with our children. Your question opens many trains of thought. Someone could write a book around that question. :-) I think as our children move into adulthood, our authority dwindles and we move into the position of wise counselor. Again, this would only be the case if our children respect us and if we've proven ourselves to be wise.
On the other hand, I've seen some parents who appear to have no authority over their two-year olds.
"Love is liquid. Brew and be drunkards!" ~~Nordette. And here's a link to the blog.
Consequences
Doesn't it depend on what's going to HAPPEN to your kid while he's in jail?
--
Bill Cammack
BillCammack.com
BlogHerBiz '07 Media
thank you Bill
I cringe when I read these types of news stories. Yes I think there comes a time when you have to step back and let a child deal with the consequences. But, I think leaving a kid in jail is not necessarily the best course of action. Jails aren't the best places for troubled folks to solve problems and mend their ways.
I couldn't do it. No way. Not for any reason.
~Denise
Fast Times @ Homeschool High & Flamingo House Happenings
I'd be so torn up
It sounds like this teen has repeatedly been in trouble with the law; so, perhaps his mother felt now was the time for him to face up to his deeds.
Like you, Denise, I'd lean toward some other form of intervention. She's in Australia, but I'm in America, and I'm not convinced our jails rehabilitate lightweight offenders. I would probably consider that while jail could scare him straight it also could traumatize him to the point that I and others couldn't reach him.
We know so little about this particular mother and son that we can't truly judge her situation. She may know of other crimes he's committed for which he's never been prosecuted. Sounds like she's thrown up her hands. I wish we could find out down the road if letting this teen go to jail worked for the better, and I pray none of us ever has to face a decision like this with our own children.
"Love is liquid. Brew and be drunkards!" ~~Nordette. And here's a link to the blog.
my biggest fear
Bill, visions of horrible jail conditions and violent prisoners would be foremost on my mind if I ever found myself in this situation. I pray that I don't. I wonder if the Australian mother knows the conditions of the jail or considered that he could be harmed in a way that exceeds reasonable punishment for his crime. However, I also wonder if she's as much afraid of her son as afraid for her son. I've heard people make distinctions between jail and prison as though prisons are larger and worse. So, perhaps she's leaving him in a place more like county lock-up. Either way, I don't know if I could do it, but I hope I'd do the best thing for my child if in this situation.
"Love is liquid. Brew and be drunkards!" ~~Nordette. And here's a link to the blog.
Doesn't it depend on many factors?
I am going to preface this by saying loud and clear that I do not have children.
But doesn't it depend on the situation? On the kid? On the parent?
I've worked with kids in juvenile detention centers. There was this one kid that honestly, I would have bailed out in a second if I were in that situation. Jail time wasn't what the kid needed. He needed tough love but the emphasis there is on the love. He needed someone that challenged him to be a better person and to love him enough to help teach him how to do that and how to deal with his anger issues (he was in for assault). He needed something that he couldn't get in jail. Unfortunately in his case, he also wasn't getting it at home.
Then on the other hand, I know kids and went to school with kids that were just simply shit disturbers and who would cause trouble and stand there and be "I didn't do it" even though they *had* and their parents got them out of their well deserved punishments every time. Some of those kids could probably stand to learn something about actions having consequences.
There's no way I could not accept the phone call though. No freaking way.
Sassymonkey and Sassymonkey Reads.
Anti-social disorder
I don't think most parents want to consider that they may have raised a child with sociopathic tendencies, someone who has no conscience and who will continue hurting others with violence, theft, or lies. Most of us would prefer to believe the child's just going through a rebellious phase. Ironically, if we do have a child who has little to no conscience, we're not helping him/her or anyone else when we cover for the child.
You're so right that you need to know your child and that it depends on many factors. Sometimes, however, the love we have for our children, our belief that they are a "mini us," and our guilt that we may have done something to make our children the way they are if they lean toward disturbing behaviors can totally blind us or keep us in denial about the true nature of our child.
I heard the story of one mother who was a victim of domestic violence and who left her husband, not tolerating his hitting her. Yet when her own son grew up and became violent with his wife, she sided with her son and said the daughter-in-law deserved it, and if anyone mentioned her past experience with domestic violence, she'd go ballistic.
Some people place what they think is loyalty to their children above all. The story of the mother supporting her son's acts of domestic violence is a little different from what's going on here with the teen and the jail situation, but it does illustrate that some parents can be in denial about their own lives and this denial trickles down to what they choose to believe about their children.
"Love is liquid. Brew and be drunkards!" ~~Nordette. And here's a link to the blog.
Surprised by my own response
As mommy-mushy and liberal as I am, I think I'm pretty hard-core on this issue.
The first thing I thought when I started reading this was, "Well, of course she'd leave him there!" My husband and I both came from families where we knew not to waste the one phone call on Mom and Dad. We are both from small towns and were disciplined and busted by our friends' parents, people from church, teachers and even older kids. That said, "jail" in small-town Iowa and in a city are probably two separate things.
That said, life has consequences. I love my daughter very much, but if she does something jail-worthy and she is an adult, then who am I to interfere with the natural consequences of her decisions? Isn't that how we learn? Free will comes with a hefty pricetag.
Surrender, Dorothy - When I was your age, we just let them ride in the back window.
Jaily Worthy
This is where I'm coming from.
In this country, we all have the right to post bond and await a trial. Innocent until PROVEN guilty. If you can't post bond, then you stay in jail.
If my kid breaks the law, then I agree he/she must abide by the law but until proven guilty, I'd bring him/her home and try again to get the brat some help while we await trial and if guilty, sentencing. :-)
~Denise
Fast Times @ Homeschool High & Flamingo House Happenings
Exactly, Denise.
One of my fears in this situation is that my kid would turn to another source to get bail, possibly becoming entangled in further turmoil, or falling under the influence of someone with unsavory conditions.
I imagine if it was my kid, I'd be rolling up my sleeves and trying to fix it, no matter what. I have little faith in our jail system to rehabilitate.
The Circus is in town!
Knowing when to let go
Oddly enough, this is a question I answered for myself with my first kid (a boy, soon to be 20 years old) was about four months old.
Of course, the situation was singular. The fairly horrific story of the Central Park Jogger had just hit the news (we remember that one, right?) and I remember watching the news reports of the mothers who were defending their sons even after the forensic experts had found evidence on the victim's battered body to implicate them (if I'm remembering this right).
I said then, and I still say this: if my adult child (which, in my book, is over 16 years) is accused of a crime, and there is any question in my mind that he or she may be wrongfully accused, I'd stand by them until and unless I was presented with enough evidence to convict them.
But if any of my kids were accused of a crime and I had reason to believe that they were guilty of that crime, I wouldn't lift a finger to help them.
That is the point at which I would walk away.
For me, it's not a question about how best to help them - jail versus intensive therapy or something else. At a certain point in the lives of our children, we really do have to let go. On a certain level, once they reach a certain age they are not our "children" anymore.
When they reach that point, we have to let them go and let life teach them what they wouldn't learn from us. If they get into their late teens and twenties and Mommy is still trying to fix them, that is bad for them and for us.
Cheers!
Dawn
Dawn Rivers Baker writes The Journal Blog
- where business and politics meet the mind of a wise-ass