YouTube and Videotaped Violence
by MSmith

Should YouTube and other online video sites be held more accountable for the increase in fights being posted on their sites?

After that horrible incident in Florida a few weeks ago of several girls luring another girl to a house so they could beat her up, videotape the incident and then post it on YouTube, there have been many discussions about whether YouTube bears any responsibility for monitoring what's posted on their site more closely.

An Associated Press article explored the questions of YouTube's responsibility and ethical and legal blame:

...there doesn't appear to be anything illegal about the video, said John Morris, senior counsel with the Center for Democracy and Technology, a civil-liberties group in Washington, D.C.

"There is no legal reason this video cannot be shown. It is obviously distasteful, abhorrent what the teenagers did to the victim, but it doesn't really make sense (to ask), 'Should YouTube have taken it down?'" Morris said.

Well after conducting a little experiment at YouTube, I disagree and I'll tell you why.

If you go to YouTube and do a search for "girls fighting," you'll get twenty-five plus pages of girls fighting. Now some of the clips on those pages are from TV and animated film clips, but the majority are literally, girls fighting.

Some of the sub categories of "girls fighting" included the following: "12 year old girls fighting," "black girls fighting," and of course "hot girls fighting." Bleh.

The first thing I did was to check out the YouTube Community Guidelines. They include the following statements:

Graphic or gratuitous violence is not allowed. If your video shows someone getting hurt, attacked, or humiliated, don't post it.

Now note that they say, "don't post it," not "we'll take it down." The guidelines also contain YouTube's policy for users to flag videos they believe violate YouTube's guidelines:

When a video gets flagged as inappropriate, we review the video to determine whether it violates our Terms of Use—flagged videos are not automatically taken down by the system. If we remove your video after reviewing it, you can assume that we removed it purposefully, and you should take our warning notification seriously. Take a deep breath, read our Terms of Use and try to see it from our perspective.

Why does something have to be flagged before it gets reviewed? Shouldn't anything with girls, boys or anybody else fighting, punching and kicking each other, be considered "graphic and gratuitous violence?" I think it should. Especially if it involves minors, which many of the clips from my search results did.

Next, I flagged several videos and I'm interested to see what will happen to them. The procedure for flagging a video involves the viewer selecting a reason. For example, there's the category "violent or repulsive content," and under that category, the sub categories, "minors fighting" and "adults fighting."

However you're warned when you flag something that "Abusing this feature is also a violation of the Community Guidelines, so don't do it." Well, since I flagged five videos, I guess I can expect my YouTube account to be pulled any day now.

I then got the message: "Content of this nature is not necessarily prohibited on YouTube, however we will review this video and take action as appropriate."

One girl fight video I saw was uploaded under the category of "comedy." How nice. It didn't look particularly funny to me. Or to the two people involved.

What I also found fascinating was the "Bikini Girl Fight" was tagged as "not suitable for minors." But this "Cat Fight" video wasn't listed that way.

Matt Ryan at The Frugal Geek asks, "Does YouTube Promote Violence?" His answer is no. When referring to the Florida incident he had this to say:

This was a tragedy, and the kids involved deserve punishment to the full extent of the law. I have a sad feeling that Myspace and YouTube are going to be brought up in a senseless lawsuit brought on by concerned parents. Blame the idiots, not the unwilling third party technology that they use to be idiots. Blame parents that apparently have no control or idea what their children are doing online.

Bianca at Bianca's Blog thought it was all an issue of "Media and Ethics:"

When does a site like YouTube decide when inappropriate videos need to be taken down? I am not much of a YouTube user, but I have browsed around on it a little. I have never seen anything terribly inappropriate. Weird, but nothing compared to the teen getting beat up by a pack of girls. The person who posted the video should have thought over in their head the consequences. Their first thought should have been “Is this ethical?” and “Will I get in trouble for this?” After this incident, I wonder if YouTube will be closely monitored and if they will take any actions against copycats.

Amber at Amber's Blog had this observation about violence:

Children are growing up with this feeling that violence is not a big deal and that people will bounce back.

In reality people do not bounce back and the example of Victoria Lindsay being brutally beaten by six girls shows exactly this. Yet, the parents of the Victoria are not placing all of the blame on the attackers but on Youtube which posted the video of the attack. While it is Youtube’s responsibility to monitor all of the videos placed on their site, it is also the responsibility of the viewers to tag the videos as inappropriate.

Karen Sugarpants describes a horrific incident on her blog:

Two days ago, a student at the high school that our sitter goes to, not 5 minutes from my house, was beaten to unconsciousness and while he was passed out on the pavement, the boys who were beating him up kept kicking him in the head.

He is in hospital now.

Those boys kept kicking him.

Other students filmed the entire thing with their cell phones.

Christine at Weary Parent wrote a post: "How To Make Sure You Kid Isn't Videotaping A Fight For YouTube."

Her number one rule:

Talk to your kids about appropriate material online. My kids (even my eight-year-olds and my five-year-old) all know we have rules when it comes to being online. There are certain things they can and cannot look at and there are certain things they can and cannot post online. We go over these rules often and even have our kids sign a contract stating they will follow our rules.

She has seven other very good rules to help educate your child about the increase in online violence.

On a related issue Dr. Robyn Silverman at the Powerful Parent Blog wrote a post about a new video game called, "Bully."

In the game, the main character, age 15, uses violence to deal with bullies in school. He is described by the makers as “Jimmy Hopkins, a teenager who’s been expelled from every school he’s ever attended.” The player gets points when Jimmy kisses girls, plays pranks on teachers and beats up his enemies. Believe me, I wish I was kidding.

Especially after several examples of YouTube videos showing bullying, a video game promoting violence in school is disturbing. While no guns are used or blood shed (thank goodness), it certainly isn’t a calm day at Bullworth academy.

Now to be fair, YouTube isn't the only online video site that is facing this issue. But as the most popular, they unfortunately have to bear the brunt of the publicity and the responsibility for exploring ways to keep these videos off the internet.

Megan Smith is a BlogHer Contributing Editor covering TV and YouTube and she'd love for all the girl fight videos to disappear from YouTube. Megan's other blogs are Megan's Minute and Video Runway.

 

Submitted by MSmith (view blog) on Tue, 04/29/2008 - 00:14

Comments

 

Absolutely YouTube should be

Absolutely YouTube should be more responsible. By allowing such material they are encouraging others to do the same, either to get the same attention or to try and "one up" the other videos. While parents need to teach their kids personal responsibility and monitor their internet use, YouTube also needs to be responsible.

http://wedding-tip.com

Submitted by Sue Walsh on Mon, 04/28/2008 - 23:33
 

Violence on YouTube

 I think that it's utterly disgusting and that they should monitor it. I do believe in freedom of speech but this is crazy. We should not glorify violence.

Claudine Williams

www.theatlantatraveler.com

www.vacation-tip.com

Submitted by Claudine on Mon, 04/28/2008 - 23:38
 

Thanks for Weighing In

Hi Claudine and Sue,

I appreciate your weighing in on this very important issue. 

Megan
BlogHer Contributing Editor, TV/YouTube
Megan's Minute
Video Runway

Submitted by MSmith on Tue, 04/29/2008 - 07:18
 

Kids and cell phones

Yes, I think that YouTube is responsible. But I also partially blame parents. Do your kids need cell phones with video and internet capability? I only ask this because last school year, when I was still teaching, two girls got into a fight -- after school on school grounds. One of the boys present captured the video on his cell phone. After the fight was broken up, I and other teachers tried to figure out what had happened. One of my students quickly offered his video -- that I sent to my phone and deleted from his phone. Unfortunately he had already sent it out to another student. I tried to check the other phone with no luck. His parents were not impressed and took the phone away from him.

 

The bottom line is that adults have to be just as tech savvy as the kids. The other teachers at the school did not know how to check the phone to see if the video had been sent out.

 

The Empress D

Submitted by Dagny on Tue, 04/29/2008 - 00:00
 

Parents Do Have To Become More "Tech Savvy"

You're absolutely right. I think parents do have to become more "tech savvy."

It's not like kids have never been violent before, they have. But it seems that because of the public attention due to online video---and remember, everyone wants to be on their version of television---the viciousness has just gone through the stratosphere.

Megan
BlogHer Contributing Editor, TV/YouTube
Megan's Minute
Video Runway

Submitted by MSmith on Tue, 04/29/2008 - 05:53
 

For More On Kids And Violence

I should point out, Laina's recent post "What Is Happening To Our Kids?" Increasing Violence Among Young Women.

Megan
BlogHer Contributing Editor, TV/YouTube
Megan's Minute
Video Runway

Submitted by MSmith on Tue, 04/29/2008 - 07:41
 

Violence should not have a platform. Period.

I think that You Tube should absolutely monitor and pull those videos off at lightning speed. Particularly because it seems that these kids feel that committing a violent act and having it posted is their claim to fame so to speak. The behavior needs to be dealt with at home, but if You Tube and other sites would not allow these videos, maybe it would make it less enticing and less glorified?

It is beyond disturbing that children are beating each other unconscious, video taping it, and they actually have multi-million dollar platform to post it to. 

I have minimal experience with You Tube because most of the time it is blocked in this country, but Megan's search interests me. I am not comfortable submitting searches from here, but I wonder if other violence (rape, child pornography) is allowed on YouTube. I hope not, I am guessing not, but if not, then why would beating someone senseless be tolerated? 

Thanks for the great post Megan!  

Submitted by JenInShanghai on Tue, 04/29/2008 - 03:26
 

Rape and Child Pornography

Hi Jen,

Regarding rape and child pornography, YouTube's Community Guidelines say the following:

YouTube is not for pornography or sexually explicit content. If this
describes your video, even if it's a video of yourself, don't post it
on YouTube. Also, be advised that we work closely with law enforcement
and we report child exploitation. Please read our Safety Tips and stay
safe on YouTube.

When I did a search for "child pornography" what I got was at least ten pages of stories and reports about or against child pornography. I only looked through a sampling of videos but I didn't see anything that looked like it could be considered child pornography.

However, when I did a search for "rape" several pages of rapes scenes came up. Some were from movies, some promised "date rape."

I have to be honest with you on this one, after glancing at the
first few videos and flagging a couple as "physical attacks" I couldn't
look at anymore.

What I also found disturbing was only a couple
of the ones I saw were flagged with a "this video or group may contain
content that is inappropriate" message.

Once again, to be fair, there were videos listed under "rape" with people speaking out against rape and violence.

Don't get me wrong, I think YouTube is a great site and a real breakthrough in modern technology and how people communicate with each other. I just think they need to do more to clean up some of the crap.

Excuse me while I now go take a shower.

Megan
BlogHer Contributing Editor, TV/YouTube
Megan's Minute
Video Runway

Submitted by MSmith on Tue, 04/29/2008 - 07:20
 

As they say here "AY OH!"

That is very disturbing.

It would be an interesting study to see if violence among youth has increased since the onset of "Reality TV". Certain violence on TV has traditionally been tolerable because you know they are actors playing a part. This has been what I rely on when watching TV with my kids. I am constantly explaining that "they are just pretending!"  

Since the explosion of "Reality" (I use that term loosely) TV I think many kids today don't really know the difference. Especially if they are not in a situation where their TV/Internet usage is monitored. It mostly boils down to parents actually parenting, but I have to think that YouTube needs to bear some of the responsibility for allowing such violence to be posted.

'nuff said.

Thanks again for a great post Megan!

Submitted by JenInShanghai on Tue, 04/29/2008 - 07:38
 

Megan

with an SOS pad.

Submitted by lilmommythatcould on Tue, 04/29/2008 - 08:21
 

Good Rule of Thumb for You Tube

I am sure some will argue some fights are "fake" like wrestling, used to entertain-which I never understood.  These above fights are just plain sick and to have little compassion for the victim leaves me shaking my head.

  If it can get you tossed in prision maybe it shouldn't be shown on Youtube. 

 

Submitted by lilmommythatcould on Tue, 04/29/2008 - 06:14
 

The Prison Litmus Test

I like it! 

Megan
BlogHer Contributing Editor, TV/YouTube
Megan's Minute
Video Runway

Submitted by MSmith on Tue, 04/29/2008 - 06:58
 

Outstanding post

Wow, Megan, you put so much into this - thank you thank you thank you for answering a lot of basic and then deeper questions.

Of course, there are still more, aren't there!? It's endless, it feels sometimes.

I'd like to know what some of the women in the media groups are doing if anything, or women in tech, and women in law. Not to be outright sexist, but I'd be curious to know if women lawyers who are familiar both with intellectual property law, media law AND women and aggression feel the same as the lawyer quoted by the AP. (these crossovers of issues is one reason I studied law and social work! I love this stuff - but of course, I hate it, if you know what I mean!)

The reason I'd try to seek someone out (NOT suggesting you or even me - just saying in general) is because I went to an excellent day-long conference that featured James Garbarino. He's really the pre-eminent authority on kids and violence, from every angle, and has been studying it for decades. And he discusses the intersections of all these areas in his work.

Anyway - a few thoughts:

1. echoing Dagny, why do the kids have the cellphones? do they really have to have the cellphones that can videotape? have we (parents) started to use them without enough thought or supervision?

2. YouTube is owned by Google now isn't it? Let's be real - Google is engaged in several very questionable practices at least two questionable practices that I can think of right off the top of my head - how they conduct work in China as Jen mentions and other countries, letting governments dictate access and the library project they are doing with Harvard and many other universities for millions of dollars (of cost to Google) but without regard to copyright (listen here to a recent NPR piece on the issues) - don't know if others have kept up on that.

Why are we not holding the corporations to a higher standard?

3. What Claudine said - we shouldn't be glorifying violence. Where I see the sticky point is that for how many decades has that been done in other "acceptable" spaces - the military, comic books and so on. So is it more about helping enforce the distinctions in the use of force and violence, or never allowing it? This is of course an ages-old question, I think.

Again - thanks for a fantastic post - I'm going to link to it!

Jill
Writes Like She Talks

Submitted by Jill on Tue, 04/29/2008 - 07:18
 

The Legal Questions Are Beyond Me

Hi Jill,

Thanks so much for the kind words, and the link.

Legally speaking, I was especially interested in this quote from the AP article I sited above:

From a legal standpoint, YouTube and other online service providers
are largely exempt from liability because of a 1996 anti-pornography
law. One provision says Internet service providers are not considered
publishers simply because they retransmit information provided by their
users or other sources.

Federal courts have applied that broadly
to cover not just Internet access providers, but also video-sharing
sites, message boards and other online services.

My legal knowledge is severely limited, but I was surprised by the fact that YouTube and other sites are "largely exempt." That to me says, nothing much will change unless the YouTube community increases pressure on the site to police itself. And that includes pressure on Google as well.

Megan
BlogHer Contributing Editor, TV/YouTube
Megan's Minute
Video Runway

Submitted by MSmith on Tue, 04/29/2008 - 07:32
 

About violent video games

First, Megan -- kudos on a great post!

Second, I share your concern about videogames such as "Bully," produced by the same lovely people responsible for the Grand Theft Auto series. In that context, I thought that this excerpt from the book, Grand Theft Childhood, by the Co-directors of the Center for Mental Health and Media, was really interesting.  It has suggestions to help parents of children who are drawn to violent videogames. I think that the suggestions might also be applied to this situation.

 

Kim
BlogHer Contributing Editor|Professor Kim|

Submitted by Kim Pearson on Wed, 04/30/2008 - 19:06
 

Video Games Are A Whole Other Animal

Hi Kim,

Thank you.

I read the excerpt you suggested and like you said it has some very helpful suggestions for parents with kids who like video games.

Welcome to the 21st century...sigh.

Megan
BlogHer Contributing Editor, TV/YouTube
Megan's Minute
Video Runway

Submitted by MSmith on Wed, 04/30/2008 - 22:00