Pro-Choice Motherhood

luva79,

As Lisa Stone noted in her comment ( http://www.blogher.com/node/6950#comment-5381 ) up thread, you are welcome to state your views and opinions and attack ideas and concepts. However, when you make sweeping generalizations attacking people such as:

either the mother is too selfish to let her baby live and be loved by another family or baby hating leftists have brainwashed her into thinking this is for her health

Then I feel it's important to remind you of the guidelines ( http://www.blogher.com/community-guidelines ) and Lisa's suggestion:

Please read the guidelines. And if you cannot refrain from fact-free character assassination that lowers the conversational tone, please leave.

Link Text ( http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/punkertimesi... )

I am pro-life. I care deeply for the unborn - because they could actually be born, they have a soul, they have been created for a purpose, they could be the person who cures cancer, and at the very least my heart breaks because they have nerve endings formed at the time of their murder. This is a modern day holocaust. Only 1% of abortions are to save the mothers life, 5-6% are for rape and incest, 93% are for CONVENIENCE. 16,000 a day people - JUST IN THE USA. The people who vote these blood mongers into office have the blood of these unborn children on their hands - it is dripping from the voting booths. I would hate to be one of you when your time comes. You want choice? Keep your pants on, get married,or choose abstinence until you can take care of your God-given responsibilities. At the very least choose adoption. There are very loving families out there who can't get pregnant. 93% for CONVENIENCE - stop your crap about the mothers health, it is actually one of two things, either the mother is too selfish to let her baby live and be loved by another family or baby hating leftists have brainwashed her into thinking this is for her health when really it is a numbers game for a political agenda lined with blood money.

Rogue:

I join you in questioning whether you are in the right place and in the opinion that your conversational tactics are pointless. BlogHer is absolutely a place to discuss (even attack) ideas and concepts. But your sweeping statements about the women on this site are not in keeping with BlogHer's community guidelines ( http://www.blogher.com/community-guidelines ).

Please read the guidelines. And if you cannot refrain from fact-free character assassination that lowers the conversational tone, please leave.

Thanks,
Lisa
Lisa Stone
BlogHer Co-founder ( http://www.blogher.com/member/lisa-stone )
Surfette ( http://surfette.typepad.com )

You did not answer my question, you went around it. You did not say yes or no. And no, I will not edit my post, because it has now past that mark and I cannot edit it anymore, besides, I am not going to beat around the bush. I am asking a question that is important and all you can say to me is that "women do not have to breed to succeed". It is okay if women do not have a child, do not have sex then, take the pill, beat the tar out of the man if he tries to touch you, but do not say that because you do not have money you do not want that child. Leave money out of it. Okay, you have a medical problem or the baby has one, why did you get pregnant to begin with then? You have no job, no stability, why did you have sex and get pregnant then? It takes more than one time and 48 hours for a baby to be conceived, I have read medical books on that. This is not being "Pro-choice", this is being "anti-human" and "anti-life". This about not having a heart. This is about being cold toward that life that is inside your body. You know this is a double standard, if woman does or does not want a child she has that say, but what about the man. What if he wanted that baby or did not? He has no say. You woman want equal rights and you want men to respect you, then take responsibility for the life you have made, take responsibity for your life and your problems and quit blaming men.

Rogue
(The X-Woman most of you tend to forget.)

I believe if you read my post, I did answer your question.

I also edited the phrase that you resented.

Now why don't you go back to your post title "Pro Choice" and edit to more correctly say "pro life".

Debra
A Stitch In Time ( http://astitchintime.blogspot.com )
Deb's Daily Distractions ( http://debsdistractions.blogspot.com )

I was not the product of rape. My mother and father did love each other at one time, my father left her, but she kept me anyway, and even if I was, I would not hate myself, or if my child was a product of rape, I would still keep the baby, it has my blood. Okay, well maybe I am pro-life, but so what if I am? I am a loving person. I would not hate the woman who had an abortion, but I would counsel her, and talk to her, and tell her that you one will see what you have done and when the aftermath hits you, you will feel pretty guilty about it. Oh, and why is no one answering the question: Would you abort your child or are you all afraid to answer that question? You know what this is pointless, feminist are heartless. What was I thinking coming in here and trying to talk to any of you about this? None of you even care about your own lives. I bet half of the women in here are on the verge of suicide.

You wrote:

Did she take birth control pills and get pregnant on accident? Was she raped? Did she consider adoption? Is their something wrong with the physical or well-being of that woman and/or the child? What is the relationship with her mother and her father, is this a bad relationship? Is this woman ready for what will happen after the abortion? (Many women have told me that abortions hurt worse than the birth and that emptiness and guilt begin to take over them.) If she said "no" to any or all of these questions, then she has no reason to abort this baby.

My answers: yes; no; no; yes; totally irrelevant; yes.

And your "judgement":

If she said "no" to any or all of these questions, then she has no reason to abort this baby.

So, as in my case, as a woman living alone and completely dependant upon myself to pay the bills (with a no work/ no pay 80 hour/week job) with a pregnancy that would not for medical reasons ever have made it to completion.. your judgement is: I have NO REASON!! Because I wasn't raped? Because I didn't consider adoption? According to you I had NO REASON??

Please, stop saying your pro-choice; you're not. You are young. And if I read between the lines correctly, (edit)you're father abandoned your mother. I admire your mother strenght. However, pro choice indicates that you ACCEPT the right of any woman to make whatever decision she believes is correct for her. NO STRINGS ATTACHED. You either support her or you don't.

To bring this back to the original post and the idea that woman must breed to succeed... I sadly must agree that in much of the world a woman is looked upon suspiciously if she is walking the childless path. And this is sometime another case of women and men not really being pro-choice.

Debra
A Stitch In Time ( http://astitchintime.blogspot.com )
Deb's Daily Distractions ( http://debsdistractions.blogspot.com )

What was in her heart then? Did she have one? Do you have a heart? I mean seriously, would you do that to yourself or your child? I had a male friend, who's girl-friend aborted their child. He was angry because even though she did not want that child, he did. He and his family wanted that child. My cousin's wife was about to do the same to her twins. My twin cousins, my whole family was angry when she said, "I never wanted these babies." If she never wanted those two beautiful babies, then why did she marry my cousin? Why did she get pregnant? Why did play with my cousin's heart in that way? I cannot have a child of my own, and deep down, one day, I want a child, not now because I am only 21, but when I am older, married maybe, but I do want one. You know what, I would adopt if I had to. Life is so small and so short and it only last so long. I am offensive. What about people who kill, who kill themselves, who kill their children, who kill any human in general? Is that not offensive? I know you want to be right, I get that, and I know you are a feminist, I get that too, but just because you are a feminist does not mean you have to be heartless. "I got pregnant by the wrong man." "No one loves me." "The father does not want to stick around." "I am depressed." These are all excuses that women give out to get rid of a baby. Feminist does not mean heartless.

When you write...

A woman who aborts their own life usually has issues within herself that she has never addressed, she does not care for herself, so she does not care for the child.

...that sounds like judgement to me.

Abortion is a complicated issue, and I find it really offensive that you can presume to know what was in someone's heart when they were making a difficult decision.

Jules

BlogHer Contributing Editor, Australia, New Zealand & Oceania ( http://www.blogher.com/topic/world/australia-nz-oc... )
Dragongirl blog ( http://www.dragongirl76.blogspot.com )

I am not judging. If a woman has done it or wants to do it I cannot stop her and I will not do so, but I have a question to every woman in here: Would you do it? That is your child and your blood. Would you do it? I cannot kill my own blood and I cannot kill an innocent life. I am not cold and heartless. There are ways that that pregnancy could have been prevented before that point. Birth control, not having sex to begin with, you know, abstinence. These women who have abortions, have them from the seond week of life into the second trimester, when the heart and brain have developed. I was told that the moment you are that far along, even one week along, that that is a baby. A life. A woman who aborts their own life usually has issues within herself that she has never addressed, she does not care for herself, so she does not care for the child. My mother loved me enough to keep me, to care for me, I will do the same for my own, no matter the circumstances. Listen, I know everyone in here is a feminist and I get that everyone thinks that an unwanted child is an unwanted child so who cares about it, but did you not make that unwanted child? Would it not be heartless, selfish, and cold to kill yourself, since that is what you are doing to you child? I know that you women must not all be cold and heartless. Just because you are a feminist does not mean that you cannot have a heart. I come from a family were women do all of the work, we use men only to have a child. Whether the man stays around or not is his decision, but we know they normally do not, they go off to war, die, or they are not strong enough to handle the responsibilty, in any case, we are like Amazons and raise our own. We teach them strength and honor and that every life, no matter what it is, has a value. You have to fight for life. I know that many of you may not believe this, but you must all know that you came here for a reason and I know it was not to kill yourselves.

that you are pro-choice but then you want to sit in judgement of women who have made that choice???

Jules

BlogHer Contributing Editor, Australia, New Zealand & Oceania ( http://www.blogher.com/topic/world/australia-nz-oc... )
Dragongirl blog ( http://www.dragongirl76.blogspot.com )

Before I begin, I would just like to say that I am a Catholic, and that I am not for murder or abortion and that I would never do either, this is not for fear of going to Hell, it is because I believe that your blood is your blood and when you kill your blood you kill yourself, but if a women wants to make that choice, she has the right to, and who am I to stop her, but here are my questions for her: Did she take birth control pills and get pregnant on accident? Was she raped? Did she consider adoption? Is their something wrong with the physical or well-being of that woman and/or the child? What is the relationship with her mother and her father, is this a bad relationship? Is this woman ready for what will happen after the abortion? (Many women have told me that abortions hurt worse than the birth and that emptiness and guilt begin to take over them.) If she said "no" to any or all of these questions, then she has no reason to abort this baby. If she "yes" then she should consider her morals, if she has any, and consider what is best for her and that unborn child. Again, it is her to decide, but my mother raised me to value all and any life, no matter what it is, and to show compassion for those who are innocent and have no voice. See my avatar, that is my daughter, Goldie, she turned 9 this week, and I became her mom in the summer of 1997. She is not related to me of course, but she is my baby, my little girl. I hand raised her and we are like two peas in a pod. I love her as if she were my real daughter, and here is the thing, she was dropped on my door step and she was only three to four weeks of age. I cannot imagine my life without her. My mother hated my father and what he did to her and how he made her feel, but she and I are best-friends and we are always there for each other, she would never have given me up or aborted me. Through all of my problems and her problems we stuck together and got through it. Think about it? To those of you who have a good relationship with your mom or to those of you who will become mothers, that is your blood. Forget the father for a bit, and think about you and that baby. That is your blood. Killing your blood, means killing yourself, hating that baby means that you hate yourself.

Well, to give a quick summary of Australian politics:

* We operate on the parliamentary system (like the UK), so we don't directly elect the Prime Minister

* There are three main parties - two major conservative parties (Liberal Party & National Party - who have an alliance); one major left-wing party (Australian Labour Party - which Gillard & Macklin belong to), and a few minor parties, like the Australian Democrats (Stott-Despoja belongs to this one) and the Australian Greens (who's leader Bob Brown was ejected from Parliament for heckling GWB a few years back when he was addressing the Australian Parliament).

* There are quite a few high profile women from both sides of politics in Australia. Aside from Gillard, Macklin & Stott-Despoja (already mentioned), there's also Amanda Vanstone, Bronwyn Bishop & Carmen Lawrence (all conservatives), and Cheryl Kernot (now Labour, formerly Democrat).

I think that the Australian media has a tendency to demonise female politicians. Most Australians have a very cynical point of view when it comes to politics and politicians, but the female pollies seem to catch more than their fair share of criticism, maybe because they are much more visible than their male colleagues.

I blogged about an article about Julia Gillard a while back, which followed the infamous "empty fruitbowl" photograph.

From my post ( http://dragongirl76.blogspot.com/2006/03/magazine-... ) (which has a copy of the photo that sparked the "controversy"):

The article on Julia Gillard was interesting - her thoughts on leadership and the kind of Australia she would like. The article also covered the infamous "Julia Gillard in an empty kitchen" story. When Mark Latham resigned as Leader of the Opposition last year, Gillard returned home to Australia early from a holiday in Vietnam, and was photographed in her kitchen the day after arriving back in Australia. Who knew that a simple photo of her sitting in an empty kitchen (no fruit in the fruit bowl - oh the horror!!) would spark debate about whether a single, childless woman could be considered "representative" of Australian voters. Gillard's comment in response: "No one person can encapsulate everyone's life experience. A man doesn't know what it's like to be a woman, a person with children doesn't know what it's like to be a person without children, a person from a wealthy background doesn't know what it's like to grow up on a housing estate." Personally, I cringe at the thought of John Howard being representative of me.

I don't think that most Australians care about whether she is unmarried and childless, since John Howard really isn't representative of Australia either. I don't think that there is one single politician who would be considered "representative" of everyone in Australia anyway, so it seems a really stupid criteria to be using for electing a politician.

I'm really disappointed and angry with Australian politics at the moment, since it seems to be about either maintaining the status quo, or taking the country in a direction that I don't like (sound familiar?). Unfortunately, the Opposition don't seem to be very effective and have a lame duck leader (Kim Beazley has been leader of the Opposition before, and lost elections, and none of the voting public really like him, making it less likely for Labour to be voted in with future elections - I really wish he would just step aside and let someone else get on with the job).

Jules

BlogHer Contributing Editor, Australia, New Zealand & Oceania ( http://www.blogher.com/topic/world/australia-nz-oc... )
Dragongirl blog ( http://www.dragongirl76.blogspot.com )

Nice to see a post on Aussie politics! :-)

Although I think that the reason why Julia Gillard isn't currently the leader of the Labour Party is more to do with the fact that she belongs to the wrong faction, as opposed to her being childless. Which is a shame, since I think she would be doing a better job than the current Leader of the Opposition, as well as providing an alternative choice to the current Prime Minister.

I keep hoping that the factions in the Labour Party stop playing politics and pick the best person for the job. Either Gillard or Jenny Macklin ( http://www.alp.org.au/people/vic/macklin_jenny.php ) (the current Deputy Leader of the Opposition) would make a far better choice than the current leader of the opposition.

[and I will get off my soapbox now, before I make a really, really long post about what is wrong with Australian politics at the moment.]

Jules

BlogHer Contributing Editor, Australia, New Zealand & Oceania ( http://www.blogher.com/topic/world/australia-nz-oc... )
Dragongirl blog ( http://www.dragongirl76.blogspot.com )

I'm unfamiliar with Australian politics, except having a very general, broad sense of what's going on down there - so your comments and perspective is more than welcome!

If you blogged about Aussie politics, particuarly with a feminist or gender slant, I'd be very interested in your views. Australia has a history of having a strong current of feminism, and an analysis of the intersection of politics and feminism in its current political climate would be interesting, to say the least - to many readers.

Best,

Melinda
Sour Duck ( http://sourduck.blogspot.com/ )