Survivor to divide tribes by race...big deal

The slave trade left generations after generations of anger, hatred, pain, and grief. Until someone realizes that the "perennial of victims" are actually VICTIMS then one cannot even begin the healing. I could go on and on about the psychological ramifications of the slave trade and racism that is passed on from generation to generation much in the same way genes are passed on from parent to child, but frustration makes me too emotional.

Stilettos and Dora? What a combination!

To echo Laina, this conversation has been and can remain respectful, mostly if we stop pretending that we're "clarifying" anyone else's position for them. Speak for yourself. State your own position, support it as you can, and leave it at that. We'll all draw our own conclusions.

What else contributes to respectful disagreement? Citing a previous commenter's exact words and commenting directly or asking questions directly about that.

Example: Laina above:

"we are a very multicultural society where Caucasians will be in a minority in a few short years if we are not already" Could you clarify that? It's not about who is a minority or not - it is who holds the power.

To which Laura replied and indeed clarified.

Pulling out quotes and responding directly to them helps us all decide, for another example, whether Laina's statement
"It's unfortunate when people who cannot see outside of their own privilege and make sweeping generalizations about how others should act."
does indeed equate to Guy's interpretation that she is saying that
"White privilege is keeping her and her people down, everywhere in the world, period."
Or perhaps we'd learn if there was, in fact, any other quote that supports why he came to that conclusion.

This is why I avoid the comments on so many political blogs. They devolve into a bunch of people either speaking for one another, telling each other what they all "really meant", or people stating "facts" without offering a single cite for said facts.

Elisa Camahort
BlogHer and Worker Bees
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I grew up in Toronto, and lived in Vancouver for 5 years, and also have travelled extensively through the States. There is a glaring similarity between all 3, in my experience. Glaring.

Toronto and Vancouver both have very different ratios of various nationalities, and Vancouver seems to be more accepting of other cultures than most parts of Toronto, though I will say the rest of Ontario (I've lived in alot of cities here) needs to "catch up" with acceptance and get closer to what Vancouver and Toronto have accomplished. I am not labelling every person outside of these cities racist, so don't bother jumping me. The States also has as much racist diversity as it does race diversity. So what I'm saying is - there are anti-racists and racists everywhere. No comparison - both countries have considerable work to do.

The thing that bothers me the most is that terrorists have made the States and Canada scary places for innocent people who may appear to be the same as terrorists. Every Lebonese person, every Muslim, (the list goes on) is judged by their appearance because of said terrorists. It makes me sick to watch my friends with these backgrounds to be judged, profiled and suspected of, because of their appearance.

I'd love to see no racism anywhere. I grew up with friends of every nationality and I was always taught that everyone is equal. I know that alot of my friends were raised differently, and that racism is taught. I constantly give people shit when I am told a racist joke, sent a racist joke over email, or witness someone emitting toxic racial slurs. I'm sick of it.

What I'm also sick of is caucasian people being labelled as racist. While there are some who are, I am not and I'm sick and tired of terms like "pulling the racist card," "why can't there be a white pride day?" and "why is Black History Month the shortest month of the year?" Do these statements make it worse? Hell yes.

Why can't we all get along?

As for Survivor, Deb is right - Survivor is done. Put a fork in it already. This latest plot to divide by race is generating the kind of attention that gets ratings - angering people, getting people to talk, and ultimately, to watch. Advertisers, start your engines.

Just my two cents.

Karen

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From Toronto.

I'm sorry to keep on jumping at you, BUT in my opinion, having been born and bred in Ontario, there is not much difference between us and our American counterparts. The only difference is the difference between overt racism, which is more prevalent in the States and covert racism which Canadians seem to favour, as we brag about our 'politeness.'

One other thing:"we are a very multicultural society where Caucasians will be in a minority in a few short years if we are not already" Could you clarify that? It's not about who is a minority or not - it is who holds the power. So if white folks ever become the 'minority' you have nothing to worry about. Plus, I've been to Vancouver a number of times and in comparison to Toronto, I doubt that will ever happen.

when I heard about Surviver's latest ploy. I think both sides make good points (they've separated the tribes based on sex, how is separating them based on race any different?), but I still think this is a bad idea.

There will be a lot of fall out from this. Whenever someone wins a challange, I envision a legion of people of the same race using that as an illustration of why their race is superior to any other. I also envision a slew of people micro-analysing every word said by anyone on the show for evidence of racism or bigotry. This could get very, very ugly.

Everyone (no matter what their race) makes assumptions about people based on how they look (clothing, hair color, they way they carry themselves, sex/gender and, yes, race). The question is can we, as a society, work to see past these basic assumptions? Can we reject these assumptions the moment they're made without acting on them? I'd love to think that the way Survivor sets up this season's show would move us closer to this ideal. But since conflict equals ratings, I kinda doubt it.

What if instead of having different races competing against each other we had a TV program showing people from multiple races working together as a team to achieve a shared goal (like maybe rebuilding a neighborhood destroyed by Katrina or something like that) Wouldn't that be something worth watching?

Stefania, I apologize if I used the incorrect term. Where I live, it's just the one that I have heard and I wasn't sure what the most appropriate term was. Geeky Dior Girl, you make a great point and I will use the term "Asian" in future.

Lainad, I knew my comment might be perceived as controversial and I apologise for causing you offense, but I did want to open up a dialogue and I was interested to hear your thoughts. It was eye-opening to me because I didn't think my opinion came across as arrogant, backwards or too simplistic but thank you for pointing out that it may be short-sighted. I would like to clarify one thing: You spoke as though we are from the same area and that my society experiences the same cultural issues as yours. I don't know where you live, but I would like to state that I live in Canada. In my hometown, Vancouver, we are a very multicultural society where Caucasians will be in a minority in a few short years if we are not already. I have grown up and attended school with people of all different races since I was young so friendships have just organically occurred; I don't think I'm better than anyone else for this fact, I was just stating my situation. I am white, so I know I am looking at racial issues through a filter of never having experienced racism first-hand (and I recognise that this makes me biased) but despite that, I do truly believe that racism is less of a problem where I live than it is in many parts of the US. I think some of your statements may not necessarily hold as true where I live as they do in your area, (for example, in my experience, people of all races are able to progress very high up the career ladder and not just in a rare scenario. It is as common for me to see an Asian person in an executive position as a white person) but of course this would require further research for me to state this with certainty.

I don't think that it's bad to discuss racism and racial issues. Of course they need to be addressed - we've come a long way to now have a discussion on the table and rights established for people of all races. But we also have a long way to go until racism is a moot point.

The point I was trying to make was that sometimes I perceive (perhaps incorrectly, but this is what I observe) that because the racism issue is so high on our awareness radar, claims of racism are sometimes made about situations where people of different races are involved but racism is not at play. (I don't think racism is always at play, and I don't think it is in the case of Survivor; I think CBS thought it might be an interesting way to shake up the game. Kind of a weird take and meant to be sensational, but I don't think it was racist.) When we do this, we are creating a racism issue where none exists, and I worry that this perhaps means we retrace steps backwards from progress that has been made in the direction of eradicating racism.

Lastly, I agree with you that "When a black woman is missing, hell, give the report some national media coverage. Tell the police to stop racial profiling. Tell people that not all Muslims are terrorists and Jewish people aren't evil." I wholeheartedly agree and am angered that those things still occur.

Word.

This is exactly what I've been trying to say, and failing to find the right words.

I have absolutely no problem with people of any race; I have friends who are middle Eastern, Oriental, white, black, Latino, you name it, and what matters to me is what they are like as a person, not what they look like. But just because I'm not racist doesn't mean I can't SEE the physical differences between myself, a white woman, and my friend Naghmeh, of Iranian descent. I feel that racism has become such a hot button issue that we now must pretend we can't even see any physical differences between people of different races, we must pretend we are all the same because it's taboo to even mention that our skin colours are different. Of course we all have equal worth, but being EQUAL does not mean we are all THE SAME. I think that when we stop creating a fuss over discussion of race, when we stop making it a taboo topic, when we can separate tribes in a reality show along racial lines and nobody even notices because it's about the people instead of the race... THEN we will have really eradicated racism once and for all. We should be able to celebrate our differences, rather than get angry that someone dared to point them out!

I don't know how to respond to this without being quite rude. But let me try this: Eliminate racism and maybe we will stop talking about it. Treat the poor and black victims of Hurricane Katrina fairly and maybe I'll give your opinion some credence.When a black woman is missing, hell, give the report some national media coverage. Tell the police to stop racial profiling. Tell people that not all Muslims are terrorists and Jewish people aren't evil. We live in a society where people are denied a proper education, access to jobs and daily racial incidents and we're all supposed to pretend that our cultural differences aren't at play? that is totally ridiculous. As I said on my post on Survivor, CBS knows exactly what the world is like and they are capitalizing on it. It's not about 'skin colour,' its about the negative judgments and actions that people (but oh, not you because you have a plethora of rainbow-coloured friends!)make that keep the issues of race and racism alive. Its unfortunate when people who cannot see outside of their own privledge and make sweeping generalizations about how others should act.

I always watch Survivor and enjoy it every season. I think it will be extremely interesting...I took a "Multicultural Counseling" Course in Grad School - and I think this will be interesting to watch. Looking forward to it.

Jill A Warner
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I'm not Asian but something I made note of early in life was that Oriental refers to mainly goods, like rugs and vases. So if you do not mind referring to people as a term used in decorating go right ahead and keep saying Oriental, just don't get offended when someone refers to you as French Country. I can understand the mistake being made between calling some Japanese and the person is really Korean but Oriental isn't a race. Unless it's a group of people that originated on the Orient Express!

Stilettos and Dora? What a combination!

Stephanie,

I agree that people should determine for themselves what they would like to be called. I question what offense is laid at your feet when you are referred to as an Oriental. If I'm just a white person or you guessed that I was an Anglo, aren't I an Occidental? Perhaps you should begin to refer to all white people as European-Americans if not Aryans. I'll tell you what; how about if I decide what it is that you are allowed to call all white people. That way there won't be any confusion among the plurality.

I do bristle at that and I think that most of your Asian friends would, too.

Other than that, you raise some very interesting points!

Stefania Pomponi Butler
Contributing Editor, Arts & Entertainment, BlogHer

I blog:
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Regardless of your opinion of Survivor and what the motivation is behind this tactic, I'm certain it's not a racist idea. I think it probably is a grab for ratings but the point of the matter is that it's still going to boil down to personalities, alliances, and strategies - not race. Alliances may be made along racial lines, but I think that will be as a result of the same races being in the same tribes to start with and therefore people of shared races will be the ones who get to know each other first. If they were grouped differently, alliances would be formed differently.

I have absolutely no problem with people of any race; I have friends who are middle Eastern, Oriental, white, black, Latino, you name it, and what matters to me is what they are like as a person, not what they look like. But just because I'm not racist doesn't mean I can't SEE the physical differences between myself, a white woman, and my friend Naghmeh, of Iranian descent. I feel that racism has become such a hot button issue that we now must pretend we can't even see any physical differences between people of different races, we must pretend we are all the same because it's taboo to even mention that our skin colours are different. Of course we all have equal worth, but being EQUAL does not mean we are all THE SAME. I think that when we stop creating a fuss over discussion of race, when we stop making it a taboo topic, when we can separate tribes in a reality show along racial lines and nobody even notices because it's about the people instead of the race... THEN we will have really eradicated racism once and for all. We should be able to celebrate our differences, rather than get angry that someone dared to point them out!

By creating an issue over this strategy, aren't we just feeding the controversy over it? I don't see how this helps eliminate racism. So I, for one, could care less how they divide the tribes. But I'm looking forward to another season of Survivor because I still think it's an entertaining show!

I haven't watched Survivor since the first season.. since I believe it was the perfect summer escapist fare, and they moved it the regular season.

But a couple times ago they divided the group by sex.. guys against gals. It made some waves, but not much. And I don't think it did anything for the ratings.

Stick a fork in it, Burnett. Survivor's done.

Debra
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There is a certain decorum I must follow on this site, even though I am rubbing vaseline on my knuckles and have just removed my fake gold door-knocker earrings......

Guy, while I appreciate your attempt to help 'clarify my statement,' I don't need your help. Having a strong opinion about race does not equate with having a 'victim-like' mentality, nor did I say, or allude that white privledge is holding me, or any other people of colour down. But white privledge does exist. I also did not blame anyone, specifically Smarti for the plight of all people of colour. But if you want to believe that, if it makes you feel more of a man (if you are one), so be it. And who are my 'crew of perrenial victims?' Those who have a differing opinion from yours?

Why don't you send an email to the founders of Blogher, express your belief that I am somehow trying to brainwash the young white women on this site to hate themselves and their ancestors, and demanding that they all apologize for the evils of racist behaviour. Go ahead.

I'm not going to even bother responding to the rest of your drivel.

Smarti,

Let me help to clarify Lainad's argument. Her assertion is that your White privilege is keeping her and her people down, everywhere in the world, period. There is no way to appease this sort of victim mentality. In other words, you've created the society in which her life and the lives of her descendants and ancestors are made manifestly better yet you have captured them all in a racist net from which there is no escape unless you change your evil ways. Did I get that right, Lainad?

If the past holds more promise than the future, perhaps you can pinpoint a time in the past where your people were better off. If that time centered around never having domesticated any beast of burden, never having created an alphabet, and never rising above subsistence farming, than happiness is truly relative.

Lainad's argument is starting to lose it buoyancy as we become truly multicultural in both Europe and North America. Immigrants from the Far East, such as China and Korea, along with those from India and the rest of South Asia are keenly aware of the lack of adaptation exhibited by Lainad and her crew of perennial victims.

This victim-hood has done precious little to change the lives of poor blacks but it has created a robust lexicon from which to level choice indictments against young White women. Readers of this forum in general and White women in particular should remain cautious when accepting blame in this context. The slightest sign of acquiescence will engender a continued assault until the recipient is made to loathe her ancestors and mistrust her descendants.

What healing is made whole when someone asks you to disparage the people who sacrificed so much for you to live and prosper? If Lainad doesn't recognise that than so be it, those accomplishments, and sacrifices both, are writ large across the globe.

Lainad, I think you understood what I meant with "we are a very multicultural society where Caucasians will be in a minority in a few short years if we are not already," I was talking numbers, not power. I don't feel that I am informed enough about the power dynamics of racial issues to comment on that.

Smartl