Not Bad for a Girl

While overt sexism still rears its ugly head, much of it these days seems to be the subtler, more pernicious type. Many sexist remarks start innocently enough. In fact, one might even think she was being offered a compliment until she really thinks about what the speaker said or how he/she said it. Whatever the case is, sexism is damaging.

The blog Stop Sexist Remarks is seeking advice and words of wisdom about stopping sexist remarks from female and male readers, but in the meantime, offers three tips:

1. Change your own behavior. Listen to how you think and speak about women and men—pay attention to the times when you find yourself thinking or saying, “Oh that’s just like a woman (or a man),” or any variation on that theme. You might be surprised how often each of us actually thinks or makes statements about women and men that are based on old values that do not reflect our desire to create a culture of gender equality. Begin to filter out thoughts and stop using phrases that are not based on fact and do not promote gender equality.

2. Talk with your family about sexist remarks. Select a time to talk about the importance of stopping sexist remarks—whether it is in response to something you hear on television or to a sexist comment made in front of your children. Use these times to help your family define how they feel about gender equality and the role they want to play in promoting it during everyday conversations.

3. Talk about the need to stop sexist remarks in the culture with someone new whenever an appropriate opportunity presents itself. Decide this year to talk to your friends, neighbors, and colleagues about the need to respond to sexist remarks in your daily lives. When a sexist comment is made, whether on the news, in the cul-de-sac, or at a local sporting event, choose one of the other people involved to discuss what happened, how you felt about it, and why it would be helpful to begin to jointly respond to sexist comments. Be sure to try this in environments that are appropriate (safe) for you and with people you believe would be interested and supportive. Begin building coalitions in your life for addressing remarks that diminish women.

I'd like to riff off of the first point and add that this includes sexist remarks that are supposedly positive, such as, "If more women were in charge of financial institutions, we never would have found ourselves in an economic crisis since women don't take testosterone-fueled risks," or, "If more women were elected to office, there would be no corruption." These types of comments - which I see all the time from both feminists and people who say they oppose feminism - drive me up up the wall. Women are people, too. People have the same unfortunate power-grabbing, ego-enhancing, and greedy instincts, regardless of their genitalia. Some may indulge these negative traits more than others, and cultural bias and social training may encourage people to exhibit certain traits more than others, but at the end of the day, we all have them. It is sexist to insist that women are inherently more moral than men. (And it's even worse to insist that mothers are more gentle and nurturing than any one else on the planet. Please!!! I've seen many, many women do horrid things to other people so that they can insure that their children benefit the most and stay ahead of the pack. I'm not criticizing it; it is only human to want the best for your kid, and not everyone takes the positive road to making sure that happens.)

It turns out that my crotchety criticism of sexism masked as kind remarks or helpful comments has an actual definition: benevolent sexism. According to Human Heuristics, a study found that benevolent sexism affects women's performances more than hostile sexism:

However, in the benevolent condition there was not a perception of sexism, per se, whereas in the hostile condition there was. So when women confront hostile sexism, they can identify it as sexism, writing it off as a flaw of the one writing the job description. When they confront benevolent sexism, it is difficult to attribute sexism because it is less straight-forward and may be masked among pleasantries or praise.

The authors argue that being unable to identify the sexism and attribute the perceived unpleasantness to it leads to an ambiguous situation which is harder to deal with. This may preoccupy the mind, causing subsequent worse performance on the tasks used to test for the job training. The cognitive load keeps the mind busy in the case of benevolent sexism, whereas with hostile sexism, the sexism can be identified and some method of coping instituted, so performance does not suffer.

Other good old fashioned sexist concepts that makes me want to poke eyes out (often my own, so I don't have to witness these types of things any more, but often the speaker's eyes as well) is the maxim "women and children first" and the idea that it is somehow wrong to kill or maim "women and children" during warfare but not civilian men. From day one this concept has been screwed up because once you saved the woman, society gave her no means to care for her children and herself, so what was the point? In today's terms, I hate the phrase because it unintentionally treats women as children: innocent, harmless, and incapable of defending oneself. After the crash of USAir Flight 1549 into the frigid Hudson River this past January, a healthy debate arose regarding the policy of women and children first. Jeanne Sager at Strollerderby wrote:

...there has to be some organizational basis for getting people moved from here to there, and few would argue with a child's right to be cut the line in light of a tragedy. Children first, at least, is almost irrefutable. They still have a chance at a life. They still have time left to make a difference.

But... kids need caregivers when they're rescued. And last I checked, caregivers come in all forms - daddies too. So what happens when we stick to "women and children first?" If a child is traveling with their Dad in tow, is the screaming tot ripped from his arms and thrust into those of a stranger, wriggling and crying? ... Perhaps the more appropriate choice is children - with appropriate caregiver - first, to be followed by whomever the pilot and his crew thinks can be gotten to next in the most organized fashion?

Hear, hear! Sager's logic is impeccable! Or at least, not bad for a girl....

Suzanne also blogs at Campaign for Unshaved Snatch & Other Rants. Her first book, Off the Beaten (Subway) Track, is about unusual things to see and do in NYC.

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So you're a huge fan of chick lit, right?

March 16, 2009 - 9:38pm

 I'm not serious. I had just finished commenting on that topic elsewhere on this site and when I saw this post, it was an interesting coincidence. As a teacher, I have found sexism to be a very tricky topic. Since I moved to Japan (where, by all accounts, women are still far from being considered equals), the number of contradictions in the way female workers are treated puzzles me. For example, my friends complain about how Japanese men get away with all kinds of things and romanticize the cultural freedom enjoyed by American women. When they hear how difficult the maternity leave situation is for women in the States, however, they can't believe we live like that. As is the case in France, new mothers (depending on the job) are eligible for lots of paid time off. Sometimes American legislators get more caught up in what is equal (to the letter), rather than analyzing what is equitable (in my mind, the spirit of feminism). 

 

http://www.somewherethesunisrising.com

 

We need to be careful in how we present this case

March 17, 2009 - 1:30am

I get the point you're making, Suzanne, about your issues with the phrase "women and children first." It's true that we need to value both genders equally; however, tossing away facts such as women are frequently not as strong as their male counterparts is what people do who defend Chris Brown, for instance, in the recent Chriss Brown/Rihanna domestic violence case. 

I'm not going to post my views fully on that here because I talked about this topic and the confusion that surrounds "women are equal to men" while ignoring the fact that women are not physically stronger than men at my blog.  I discussed the impact of such thinking when its used as a ruse to wink at domestic violence and ignore the difference between female aggression and male abuse, etc., sort of tossing the baby out with bathwater to make a point.

We could debate forever how many angels on a pin head with statements like "What about elderly frail men in the boat who may be weaker than a 20-something, large woman?" But that would miss the point that it's a biological fact that men generally have greater physical strength.  I don't think being a feminist or womanists means we toss out biological realities. And while women have been second class citizens, died at the hands of men who think a woman's life is worth little, it's also sometimes been male chivalry that's saved a woman's life.

I like Syl's point that we must not confuse wanting what is equal with wanting what is equitable.

Nordette: BlogHer CE. Blogs @ WSATA & UMBOP. @Twitter

 

Agreed

March 17, 2009 - 5:04am

I actually paused for a second before I used the Hudson River example because the water was so cold and I know that because of lower body weight and other reasons, women were more susceptible to shock and other problems that were decent reasons for being rescued first. But as a maxim, I have to say that I still find it lame because it doesn't allow for the nuance that we seek. To me, it is no closer to equitable than saying that men are better at science because their brains are wired for it, so let's just not really invest in women's scientific education because who is to fight with biology? Maxims are cop outs, although I hear both of you.

Suzanne Reisman, Contributing Editor - Feminism & Gender
Campaign for Unshaved Snatch (CUSS) & Other Rants

 

Maxims require minimal thought :-)

March 17, 2009 - 11:30pm

That's why a lot of people like them. I have the same reaction as you to those who say anything should be a certain way all across the board. Maxims can be irritating, not only because of how they stereotype (in this case, women), but because of how they discourage analysis on a case by case basis. In all areas of life, the challenge is to give each individual issue the amount of attention it deserves before coming up with a solution. In an attempt to be more efficient, people try to circumvent all of the "what if" questions and throw down universal commandments instead. Tough examples that come to mind:

  • establishing classroom rules (homework every night, but sometimes kids have genuinely good excuses why they can't turn it in)
  • parental rules (my sisters used to fight tooth and nail against equality b/c they felt their needs and wishes were so incredibly different)
  • minimum SAT scores (this has already been debated for decades)

I wish there were some way to ensure that everyone had the time to think seriously about everything that mattered in life. Maybe societies are just stretched too thin? Maybe living in a community and following group guidelines wasn't the best idea? It's crazy to really consider that, but who knows? Sorry for the tangent if this bothered anybody.

http://www.somewherethesunisrising.com

 

I was a science major in

March 17, 2009 - 8:59am

I was a science major in college, and I work in the electronics field now, but where I've experienced sexism the most is playing co-ed sports.  I've play on a co-ed ice hockey team and on a co-ed softball team.  Interestingly enough, I think there is less sexism on the hockey team, though it does still exist.  Hockey has the benifit of having lines, so skill levels can be more easily matched. In my league, there are women on all of the lines.  For the most part, if you're open, you get passed the puck, it doesn't matter if you are male or female.  But there are just some things you can't get around in co-ed sports reguardless of skill; 5'7", 125 lbs, does not usually win vs 6'4", 220 lbs.  6'4" in almost every case, can skate faster.  And boy, even an unitentional check from someone that size will have 5'7" on their ass.  But that's just physics, it has nothing to do with what sex you are (other than most women on my hockey team are much smaller than most of the men), or how well you can handle the puck.

In the league I play in, most everyone is very encouraging and helpful.  It's about the love of the game and improving your skills, not whether you are male or female.  I've seen a few men play around the women, not pass the puck to them, but those guys are few and far between in our league.  I'll bet though, it would be different in a more competetive hockey league. Where the sexism is more evident, at least in my experience, is co-ed softball.  In co-ed softball, there are rules for batting order; like you can't bat two guys in a row or you have to take an out, and you can't walk a guy without pitching them strike or the female batter behind him gets to walk too.  There are rules like, you have to have an equal number of men and women on the field and you have to have 3 women on the infield. Those rules exist for a reason.  There aren't those kinds of rules in my hockey league, everyone plays on the line of their skill level.

In softball, when the women go up to the plate to bat, the outfield moves in.  And they don't just move in, they first yell, "girl!" as the queue to move in.  Younger teams are particularly guilty of this.  I've seen teams completely play around thier female team mates; not let them make the catch or the throw.   At least once a season I hear someone from another team tell me they can't believe how good I am, for a girl.  There's always one person who can't just say, nice hit, or great catch, or hell of throw, they've got to add "for a girl" to the end of it.  Of course, that's usually after I've hit a triple in right field, or maybe I've thrown them out because a) they didn't think I could catch or b)they tried for an extra base thinking I couldn't throw. I'm usually too stunned by the addition of "for a girl"  to say anything in response.  You'd think you get used to it, but you don't .  

 

 

And yet we're on a "women-centric" website because why?

March 17, 2009 - 5:56pm

 I'm not trying to be narky, I just am interested in where 'benevolent sexism' stops and 'gender specific' services/industries/markets begin.

I am in a workplace surrounded by men, and I have to listen to the grumpy old ones talk about their wives, and how unreasonable they are.  I don't pull them up, because they are old and set in their ways.  I do respond badly when they tell me I'm a clever girl for doing my job.  Or when one in particular decides I should do the administration tasks for which I am not responsible, because 'she is so much better at them'.

But I did have words with somebody who sent me a very sexist video today.  For mens workwear, showing the affect it had on the girls in the office...

Anyhow.  He won't send me stuff like that again.  And I'm hoping he doesn't send it around the office, either.  But I bet he just thinks i'm being prudish.

 

Intellectually speaking...

March 17, 2009 - 10:41pm

...I think you make an excellent point.  Because there really is no equivocation to be made there.

Physically speaking, there is. Generally, anyway.  In the military, I was heartily in favor of separate male/female fitness scoring.  Sixty pushups in two minutes means I'm a rock star; sixty pushups in two minutes isn't nearly so impressive for a man.

But where it comes to men and women performing the very same physical duties?  They need the very same physical scale.  It's a matter of job qualifications, nothing more.

That said, it's my personal goal to stop generalizing about female drivers.  If only they'd stop giving me so much evidence against them. ;)

mothergoosemouse

 

and her we go again with the ill of feminism

March 17, 2009 - 10:42pm

As women, you want your cake and eat it too. i commend the post but see where it is getting lost in translation with the commentary. I do admit the equal as opposed to equitable comment was kinda cool if not lame because they mean the same thing. 

Do women really want equality in its purest form? Of course not, we are women. We deserve equality with disclaimers.

You are apalled by sexist email? You feel he will think your prudish?  He probably thinks you lack a sense of humor.

Women are getting their panties in a ruffled state because they want equality but demand to be treated like a lady. News flash....it doesn't work that way!!!

As far as women and children first. Do you have time to group children by age? Which child is a punk and which one deserves to live based on boy scout merits? Should the female children go before the male children? Should we group stupid before smart? Should the football playing kid go before the egocentric math wiz  in texas that's a rhetorical) Should a fat women on welfare be saved? Should the sexy blonde slut be saved? Should a man pull his tax records to prove viable enough to live?  How about the jew over the protestant? Black over brown, or white?

 Its ridiculous fodder and not one that will help women further their cause.

Culture gender equality? In what part of life?

Do you want more male strip clubs?

Do you want to shower with men at the club?

How about if you get pregnant? Can the man decide to abort or keep it. Can he decide not to participate in child support equally?

As far as rape is concerned..its not a feminist issue. Its an act of violence not sexism.

And as far as saving someone in times of disaster. I would help who ever is closest to me with ]out thought as to gender, age or color...I would only see a life that needs to be saved!!

 

equal vs. equitable

March 17, 2009 - 11:06pm

I understand where your disdain for two seemingly synonymous words is coming from. In this case, however, I was trying to imply that there are nuances to the ideas of "fairness" and "justice" that are often overlooked or conveniently ignored. The simplest example I can think of would be a parking lot. The handicapped spaces are not "equally" as far away from the entrance as the regular spots, but they are "equitable" (fair, just) because disabled people should not be expected to travel as far as people with no physical limitations. It's a question of semantics, but I hope this clarifies my argument.

 Of course, I do not want to equate women's issues with disabilities. With respect to maternity leave, however, there are many instances in which mothers are expected to work an "equal" number of days in a given year as men or women who choose to not have children. Is that treatment to be considered equitable as well? I don't have the answer, but I don't think it is always so easy to distinguish between the two.

http://www.somewherethesunisrising.com

 

What Syl said

March 18, 2009 - 7:41am

The words equal and equitable do not mean exactly the same thing.  

"All men (humans) are created equal" cannot be changed to "All humans are created equitable." 

Only under narrow circumstances are the two words interchangeable. 

As for your disaster analogies, anybody thinking that hard in a disaster would be dead.

Nordette: BlogHer CE. Blogs @ WSATA & UMBOP. @Twitter

 

I let one slip by the other day...

March 18, 2009 - 9:45am

In the entertainment industry I'd say that the most common sexist "jokes" are the ones about how women expect money from men. That that's what I must be looking for in a husband.

Which I fully accept that some women care about that, but it's wearying because it's no where on my list of what I look for in a partner. I want someone with goals and things that they work towards, sure, but I make my own money just fine, thanks. And if I want something I don't expect anyone to get it for me but me.

So I usually make a lighthearted comment back to that effect - this one I've gotten pretty good at - but this week I was just too over it. It's all just so lame, and I hate it.

But, yes, I agree, when you're up to it, it can really make a (even if it's minuscule) difference to say SOMETHING.

Liz Rizzo

I blog at Everyday Goddess.

 

Gold diggers

March 18, 2009 - 12:41pm

gold digger definition

Ugh. Don't get me started on the "golddigger" songs and associated phrases. The lyrics seem amusing at first until you realize how many men apply the tag to all women. And yet they do not apply the label to men who considers a potential mate's finances.  When a man decides a woman is not the social class he desires, he's just being practical, they say.  When a woman does it, she's got dollar signs in her eyes.

I listened to men on an Internet radio show once saying they test to see if the woman they want to marry is a gold digger by not giving her a diamond ring with a marriage proposal. If she's bothered by that, then she must be a gold digger.  And these are men who aren't wealthy enough to be in danger of anybody caring about their earnings. Generally they are even bugged by the question "what do you do for a living?"if a woman asks the question.  And I guarantee you they'd trash a beautiful woman who ignored them and not see their interest in her physical assets first is what--beauty digging? :-)

To Suzanne:  I enjoy discussions about how we use words, sexist implications, racist iplications, etc, but I still wrote a post saying AIG is "bitch slapping" the American public. I use the phrase satirically as well as analogies to the AIG mess and pimps, sluts, and whores.  How far do we take this tidying up of language for the sake of social justice nirvana? Does the problem with maxims trickle down to imagery in satire and creative forms of language?  Yes, I know. Writers have had this discussion over and over.

Nordette: BlogHer CE. Blogs @ WSATA & UMBOP. @Twitter

 

Mind if I jump in?

March 18, 2009 - 1:05pm

Words are tricky, given the myriad of definitions, slang and such.

One group might take a word and reclaim it from the public offence box, for its own purposes; this is quite healthy for the community and for those within it on an individual basis.

Yet someone on the outside might feel the urge to invoke the term, their justification likely 'those in the community use it', and all of a sudden (I am picturing some cartoon here, so forgive my mind-wandering, but I just have this visual of fifty cannons popping out of nowhere around the screen) they are under fire, not quite understanding why they are there.

Easy. Don't step on terms a community uses in one way within it, and try to export this usage and usurp it in another, observational context, looking in; it is highly likely the purpose of this outside use is not benevolent toward the community under observation. Big difference.

'Bitch slapping' and 'wife beaters' are two terms that make me cringe; I never ever use them. Yet if we invoke the terms, say, you and me and Suzanne, our intent is quite different than if good old Rush tosses it about.

 

 

llhaesa

 

Satire and sarcasm are important!

March 18, 2009 - 9:00pm

I could not live without them!

Suzanne Reisman, Contributing Editor - Feminism & Gender
Campaign for Unshaved Snatch (CUSS) & Other Rants

 

women expect money from men stereotype

March 23, 2009 - 2:45pm

From my observations the "women expect money from men" stereotype will be gone soon as there seems to be a growing number of aspiring toy-boys.

 

Another 'what she said'...

March 18, 2009 - 11:52am

post!

It really does permeate and percolate through our lives, and yes, sometimes we do not realise our use of phrases, or that we engage in outlook that is sexist in some way.

Where it best shows, at least for me, is how we view women in politics, nothing dredges up a hornet's nest of tired old cliches and stereotypes than a woman nearing power.

I was just reading on Quiverfull, that left me ready to bear wrestle, only to almost immediately stumble upon your post.

Some bear is not going to be happy with you. ;-) 

 

llhaesa

 

equal and equitable

March 18, 2009 - 4:03pm

I looked the words up in webster's dictionary (before i made the comment) and while they do represent the same meaning, equal can be a noun, verb, and adjective where as equitable is defined as an adjective and yes, they can be manipulated into broader meanings. i just happen to be a bit more black and white with words...I think it has to due with my ADD.

I think the issue isn't with words but the fact I was a bit glib to get my point across. I apologize if anyone felt this was a personal attack. I very much respect everyone's right to an opinion...well almost everyone's except Rush Limbaugh and everyone on the Fox Network.

I guess posting comments is a bit like driving. We all share the road and we all drive diferently. If someone cuts us off, we take it personally because of our perception in relation to how we handle oursleves on the road.

I may have a stronger tactic in voicing opinion and if you feel I am unjust, let me know. I am always willing to work things out equitably ;))

 

 

 

No worries!

March 18, 2009 - 6:22pm

 It's a challenge for me to be as clear as possible when trying to get my point across, so I appreciated the debate :-)

http://www.somewherethesunisrising.com

 

Didn't take it personally at all

March 18, 2009 - 6:55pm

My parser cap went on. That's all. Gracious response from you but not necessary. :-)

Nordette: BlogHer CE. Blogs @ WSATA & UMBOP. @Twitter

 

Not bad for a girl

March 19, 2009 - 1:49pm

I think I have to agree with the people that say everyone is sexist in some way or another.  It's forced into us with the myriad of ridiculous activities and television shows that pit "boys vs girls" throughout our lives.  We're conditioned into thinking it's us against them.  Sad really.

 
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