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Rita Arens authors Surrender, Dorothy and Surrender, Dorothy: Reviews. She is BlogHer.com's senior editor.  Her parenting anthology and BlogHer'...
 
 
 
 

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Obama's Student Loan Announcement:

Are You Still Paying Yours?

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When my husband and I got married, we married each other and we married each other's debt. I think we had something like $28k in student loans from my husband when we got together, which we started paying off immediately. Those were the good old days before mortgage and a kid, and we were fortunate to have jobs that paid damn close to what we make combined now, eek, ten years later. If we had to pay those loans off now on top of childcare and all the stuff that comes with rising utilities and food costs and house repairs, we would be in serious trouble. Even back then when everything was (relatively speaking) flush, I lived in fear of being in default of those loans, because what would that do to our credit rating and our ability to buy a house or a car or get a job in the future? Messing with your government loans is serious business: the government can seize your tax returns, garnish your wages and more.

student loans

Credit Image: B Rosen on Flickr


Today Obama announced a plan to address student loan repayment while at an event in Denver.

Here's the gist of it from CNN:

The way the Income-Based Repayment Plan works now is that graduates who enroll get charged 15% of their monthly discretionary income to pay off loans, with debt forgiven after 25 years.

Congress passed a law set to go into effect in 2014 that would drop the monthly payment for loans originated that year to 10% of discretionary income and would forgive all debt after 20 years.

And from what I understand after watching the newscast on CNN, Obama wants to speed that up by putting what Congress approved into place next year in 2012.

Blogger Reaction to Obama's Student Loan Announcement

moon cat at LeftinaAlabama is all for it:

The economic benefits of a good education are immense -- to society, not just the student -- but no one should be forced to sign away their paychecks for life in order to secure a college degree.

Professionalstudent wrote on BlogHer.com, calling student loans "The Silent Killer":

In order to finish up my MBA I had to take out yet another loan for 3,000 dollars. Yuck! Nonetheless, I was able to finish school in November 2010 with my Master’s in Business Administration concentrated on Program Management. Ecstatic, I quickly began looking for work. And still, no such luck. In the next few months I will have to start paying back that tedious 70k loan along with my new 3k loan.

But Rachel at Thoughts From a Conservative Mom is very much against Obama's position:

Earth to Obama: Congress is not “dysfunctional”. It’s doing exactly what it was DESIGNED by our Founding Fathers to do: stand as a check against the harmful agenda of an out-of-control Executive Branch.

Updated 4/25/2012

Obama and Romney are taking student loan debates to the people. This morning, the Obama campaign released this video.

Here is Romney's video.

Is speeding up this legislation a good idea or a bad idea? Are you still paying off student loans?

Rita Arens authors Surrender Dorothy and is the editor of Sleep is for the Weak. She is BlogHer's assignment and syndication editor.

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souschef 309 pts

I was REALLY, I mean REALLY fortunate to be in the position I was.  I was the youngest of three and I graduated from high school in 1973.  My brother, the oldest by five years, went to a community college and then a private school in NYC for which he took out a small student loan.  That took a few years to clear.

My sister, older by two years, went to a private school for two years with scholarship help and then got her BS at Columbia with a substantial loan.  Her husband went to Harvard starting with a scholarship which became loans after a time.  He then went to Harvard Law also on loans.  I believe they finished paying off their Student Loans before their two kids started college and they had good jobs pretty quickly.

Me, I had a small scholarship for the community college I attended and then a small inheritance along with a job and a gainfully employed father with no other children to worry about to help me through New York Tech, a private school.

When I graduated I was already payed off!

I am very much aware of what my sister and brother-in-law were saddled with and I consider myself BLESSED That I was free and clear!

Hallelujah indeed!

 

HomeRearedChef 4064 pts

I can tell you that my children were able to qualify for Financial Aid, in order to receive a college education at the time. And at the time, we were actually homeless during those dark years. But my children, I am proud to say, did remain in school, which kept them from having to think about our problems. School kept them occupied, and they were getting excellent grades in their studies. So I am very grateful we had Financial Aid to help us. We didn't have to borrow money.

 

I do, however, feel just awful for all the young people trying to get an education, only to graduate and find no means with which to pay off their loans. My son is a Math Major, and after 3 years he still hasn't found a job to fit his education.  Sigh!

TW 171 pts

I don't get it. You know when you get student loans you will have to pay them back. They give you a nice estimate of what those monthly payments will be to pay them back. It isn't like it is a surprise: here's your diploma-start sending in 680.00 a month. Yes, I had student loans and needed them to a degree. I also wasted some on meals out, living above my future means, and more. I don't think the government should be responsible for bailing anyone out of the stupid decisions one makes as a young adult.

shannonq1974 5 pts

I paid off my student loans a few years ago but even if I hadn't I wouldn't be in favor of Obama's plan. I agree with @drannmaria who made the analogy to a home loan -- education is an investment and if people are making the wrong choices, why must we bail them out? We don't put any onus on college students to understand the investment they are making in their education. Their decision to pursue a degree costs money, and will cost them money that they must pay back. I've read countless tales of people who went to school for four years only to decide to do something else at the last minute. Or those that pursued a degree or even advanced degree and were surprised to find that the resulting career was not worth the investment they made. A few of these are sad situations in which the bottom fell out of an industry. The majority though, are people who "follow their dreams" to do what they want to do, regardless of the fact that their education will cost 10x the average salary they hope to get. So, am I about to make the unpopular and ridiculous declaration that we shouldn't follow our dreams? Of course not. But we shouldn't tell kids that they should go to college no matter what and do whatever it is they want, as if there are no consequences of those years of costs and tuition. And let's not even get started on the many students -- myself included -- who don't use their time/education wisely. They are having fun, finding themselves and deciding what to do with their lives.  All of which is fine by me when it's their own money they are spending. But the minute they ask me to pay for it -- sorry, our government to forgive it -- it starts to bother me. We need to hold people accountable for their investments and decisions. 

 

The government could really be of assistance here by finding ways to get and keep education costs down and ensure there are jobs out there that make education worth the cost. 

drannmaria 22 pts

I paid off my student loans years ago. I paid for most of the costs of college for two of my daughters - well over $100,000. I could afford to do it because I got a very good graduate education at a state school where I attended for free on scholarship. They even gave me a stipend to attend. That was over 20 years ago and that same state school costs 10 times the tuition it did then. In addition, the money for research grants to support students is less than it was. With tuition costs several times higher, the same funds can afford to offer scholarships to fewer students.

 

Student loans are a problem, but one source of the problem is that tuition costs have skyrocketed - and the money is not going to the professors - unlike when I was in school, a large proportion of the faculty are part-time instructors being paid peanuts. Another problem is the value of a diploma in terms of getting a job.

 

I wonder why there is no analogy to when you get a home loan. If I'm stupid enough to pay $250,000 for a house worth $100,000  the bank isn't going to loan me any more than $100,000 but we give students enormous loans for these useless degrees from for-profit schools.

Rita Arens 231 pts

 drannmaria Interesting analogy, home loans versus school loans. I do think it's harder to put a value on something that's not tangible -- so much depends on how you use it once you have it, and whether there are opportunities to use it based on external circumstances. 

 

I don't know WHERE that money is going. I taught adjunct English at a community college for two years and the pay worked out to about 50 cents an hour when I did the math (and then quit). I agree it is absolutely not going to the professors, all of whom have extremely expensive advanced degrees.

jessicasalamon 9 pts

Some of these responses really agitate me. While I am glad there are some people who can graduate without debt, for some of us it was never going to be reality. I am the first member of a severely dysfunctional family to earn a college degree. My parents were less than helpful in my education, they are addicts, so in addition to working full time and going to school full time, I also raised my three siblings. In the summer, I worked full time and had a second job.

 

I had NO IDEA how to even apply for college. Everything I did, I did on the advice of other people who knew the system where I did not. I went to the local state college because they approached me and offered me a small scholarship. I took out loans because the nice people in financial aid told me to do so. They told me not to worry about the money, I wouldn't even have to think about paying in back until I graduated anyhow. 

 

I graduated early because I had a job lined up. I could have stayed another year and gotten some more marketable qualifications but the amount of loan debt was starting to bother me and I had a JOB, a real job in my field. A job with the state museum for whom I had been working full time for the past two years while going to college. Ten days after I graduated the state cut the funding of that institution back to the level in had been at in 1975. All new positions were frozen, including my job, it still is. To ice the cake further, they started laying people off. I made it to the third round of layoffs before I had to go. The staff there is now 1/6th of what it had been. I ended up taking a job that was not in my field, because jobs in my field are hard to come by without that additional year I would have needed. 

 

Did I make bad decisions? I don't think so. I worked through school I still work. The problem is, I was born white trash and therefore, in the opinion of some, I should have never gone to college in the first place. I couldn't afford it right? 

 

Am I the norm? No, but there are a whole lot more students out there like me than there are students with trust funds. 

Rita Arens 231 pts

 jessicasalamon I'm sorry to hear about your job. It sounds like you are in a fascinating field that is highly dependent on grants, etc. As a writer, I feel your pain. It's really hard to find a good job in a creative field. 

 

I'm glad you talked about how much trust we end up placing in authority figures when you don't have anyone else to lean on. I was so naive in my college years that I would've listened to anyone behind a desk. It wasn't until I got older and realized the people behind the desks don't necessarily know what they are talking about that I realized just how risky everything is when you are just out of your house.

 

Yours is a success story that I'm glad to have read. I applaud you and your life.

JennaHatfield 288 pts

I'm down to a number left that allows me to see a light in the distance. I worked hard to find that light. I had a half scholarship, my parents then paid half of my half and I got loans for that last quarter remaining. It's still a LOT of money when you factor in that it was a private college. Due to my experience, I'm very pro-public-university! :)

Rita Arens 231 pts

 JennaHatfield I definitely will be encouraging my girl to take a hard look at in-state public schools first. There is a huge huge difference.

Kita Kazoo 31 pts

You know it takes longer to pay off a credit card if you only pay the minimum.  I haven't done the math but suspect that people might be paying more, even if they get forgiven after 20 years.

Kita Kazoo 31 pts

I mean if you pay the minimum, you pay more in interest... Not just longer.

Rita Arens 231 pts

 ktlwry I hear you. Unfortunately I think the minimum is often way more than a recent grad can really afford. The  numbers get pretty ugly pretty fast on a loan that big. I remember it was several hundred a month for $28k. Who knows for six figures? Is that a mortgage payment?

Judaye @ Let Me Tell The Story. 33 pts

I have it and will be paying for a long, long time.

Rita Arens 231 pts

 Judaye @ Let Me Tell The Story. ugh

emilysteers 19 pts

i pay about $400 a month, and my remaining $28,000 in private loans are stuck at 6.5% interest. there is no way i would have been able to do what i do for a living having gone to a state college-- i would have ended up as a high school english teacher, which is great, but just not for me. (i would make a terrible, terrible teacher.)

 

i worked all through college to pay as many of my bills as i could at the time, but here's the problem i have with student loans: if parents or students can pay tuition at the time of going to school, tuition is 100% tax deductible. meanwhile, only a *percentage* of my student loan *interest* is tax deductible, if i make *less than a certain amount* each year. this 100% benefits people who are wealthy and is detrimental to people who are middle class or poor.

 

THAT's the rule I want to see done away with. my payments on my student loans (maybe minus the interest that i pay?) should be tax deductible, as if i had paid for my tuition outright. it would help a lot, considering my student loan payments are 16% of what i make every month.

Rita Arens 231 pts

 emilysteers That is a really good point, Emily!

drannmaria 22 pts

 emilysteers Tuition you pay for yourself may be tax deductible. Tuition paid for your child is not. 

Rita Arens 231 pts

 drannmaria Thanks for pointing out that difference, because it's a biggie.

robotheart 22 pts

I think this doesn't do much to address the real problems: the skyrocketing cost of education and the high rate of unemployment/underemployment for 20-somethings. College costs far outpace the rate of normal inflation. This year, the cost of tuition and fees at private institutions increased by 4.5%, at public institutions by 8.4%. By contrast, the general inflation rate for 2010 was 1.6%. These inflation numbers have held pretty true for the last decade. At the end of the 2011 school year, only 56% of college grads had had at least one job offer, compared with 90% of college grads in 2007. Starting salaries have also fallen off, from an average of $30,000 to $27,000.

You do the math. It is increasingly difficult for average American families to afford a college education without relying heavily on loans, and for teens and 20-somethings attempting to pay their way through school on salaries with little more than their high school diplomas recommend them, a college education is all but an impossibility unless they turn to loans. To add insult to injury, most college grads upon graduating find a bleak economy where few jobs are available, and the jobs they do find typically pay abysmally and often provide no benefits. How do we expect them to pay back their loans when they barely make enough to cover rent and groceries and are completely unable to pay for things like basic health care?

Until these other factors are addressed, any "solution" put forward barely qualifies as a band-aid.

Rita Arens 231 pts

 robotheart I totally agree that both education and health care are outpacing salaries in a terrifying way. It should not cost a new car a year to get a degree.

GaelMc 93 pts

I did not take out loans. I paid as I went, I worked for the university so what I earned was tax free, I earned fellowships with my grades. As quaint an idea as it is if I did not have the money I did not attend. Now those who did not have the money but took out very low interest loans to cover their education costs now earn an income based upon that education (generally speaking those with degrees are employed at a far higher rate than those without them) and they may get to walk away from their debts. C'est la vie.

robotheart 22 pts

GaelMc I hope you don't take this as an insult, but how long ago did you attend college and what were the costs of college relative to the typical job that a person with a high school diploma could find at that time? Because chances are, it was a lot easier when you were doing it than it is today. A college education today is no longer a guarantee of a good salary and job security. While college grads do typically have a better chance of finding a job than non-college grads, the jobs they find are few and far between, and they pay less and less every year. When we're talking 50% employment rates for new college grads, with salaries starting at an average of $27,000, where do you think that leaves young people without college degrees, who can not only expect to find a much tougher and more competitive job market, but also much lower salaries? How are they supposed to pay for school when the average cost of tuition at a 4-year state university is over $8,000/year?

The good ol' days are gone. No longer is it possible for a person to put themselves through college while working full-time jobs that pay a hair over minimum wage without getting loans, grants, and scholarships (and usually, it takes a combination of all 3)...not unless they want to spend a decade or longer trying to get their education. We have to start confronting the reality we are presented with, rather than trying to argue that the conventional wisdom from 10, 20, or 30 years ago still applies. The current economy is simply not what it once was.

jessicasalamon 9 pts

 robotheart Not to mention that Pell Grants and state grants grow smaller and smaller each year. I have been told that once upon a time Pell Grants covered the cost of tuition. I was astounded. And what are those students with families supposed to do? A lot of college students these days are nontraditional students.

Rita Arens 231 pts

 GaelMc I paid as I went for grad school, but I couldn't have done that if I didn't have a college-degreed salary. I know one guy who literally put himself through college and it took him seven years to get a four-year-degree back in the mid-nineties. Which is an option, but a painful option. Working full-time it took me four years to get a two-year degree. 

 

Working your way through college sure was easier when college didn't cost more than a minimum wage earner can earn in a year in many instances, alas.

Kita Kazoo 31 pts

 GaelMc Good for you!

 

My father & brother did the same thing, while raising families.  It was tough and it took longer, but they graduated with no debt.

Vinobaby 16 pts

This bothers me for several reasons. I had a choice when selecting a university: I could go to Northwestern and graduate with $75,000 in student loans or I could go to a state school and graduate free and clear. Even as an irresponsible 18-year-old I chose the state school AND worked the entire time I was in college. I was lucky my parents could pay for a state university. I knew my intended major (journalism) would not pay off those student loans. Is it "fair" I had to go with a state school because my family is not wealthy? No. But life is not fair. You deal.

My husband went to a state school and still had loans. We worked to pay them off in 10 years as his payment schedule required. Now his brother, on the other hand, spent 7 years in a private college (for a P.E. degree), has been out of college 20 years, defaulted dozens of times, and takes vacations and buys televisions instead of paying off his ridiculous loan. Should his be written off? No. That's not fair either. But I guess the taxpayers will have to deal with it.

robotheart 22 pts

Vinobaby My husband and I both attended state schools, and we still managed to graduate with nearly six figures of student loan debt. My husband didn't have the luxury of parents who could help him through school, and my parents couldn't help me a whole lot more than his did. According to most people, we made the "responsible" choices. Not only did we go to state schools, we both made excellent grades, carried scholarships, worked through school, graduated, and went on to get great jobs, in spite of a terrible economy. That doesn't change the fact that $100,000 in debt, even with our combined six-figure income, is a huge burden on our monthly finances and will continue to be for the next 20 years.

I get frustrated with the argument that somehow it's only irresponsible people who end up with this sort of debt. Most people who end up with this sort of debt are trying to make the right decisions. It's just that, unfortunately, even the right decisions these days often don't yield good results.

Rita Arens 231 pts

 robotheart I can easily see how two people together having to take out loans to cover tuition, books and probably also cost of living could amass six figures of debt over four or five years. I have debt while working full-time because the air conditioning did not always choose the best time to go out or the car need brakes or what have you. When the economy sucks and the prices are shooting up and your salary is not, it all creeps up on you. Totally sucks.

Rita Arens 231 pts

 Vinobaby I know someone like that, too. I struggle with this one, because you could easily make that argument for any social program -- someone will always abuse it, but does that mean it shouldn't be allowed to hurt the people who need it and will use it legitimately for as short a time as possible? It's a tough call.

lainierenee 23 pts

I owe about $45 K for two undergraduate degrees and a year of law school. It is not horrible for me, but it still kind of annoying and each time I get ready to pay off a loan something catastrophic occurs and I am back at square one.

Rita Arens 231 pts

 lainierenee My husband jokes I would sell the cat for a zero credit card balance, but despite making huge efforts, it's still not zero for that exact reason. Something always happens.

Dawn 8 pts

I paid everything off for under grad and grad school. Now onto my doctorate....and I will owe about 68K when done.

That is...if I can find a job - which given the several months of all out rejection letters, it is looking less and less likely.

So sure. Hit me with a percent of an income I don't have. In 25 years, I'll be 66. Won't that be a treat to have my loan forgiven and my retirement begin.

Rita Arens 231 pts

 Dawn "Hit me with a percent of an income I don't have" -- interesting way of looking at it. I wonder how many graduates will have that problem, or be hit with a percentage of a salary earned at the mall.

ldskatelyn 13 pts

 Rita Arens My husband and I are currently under RBI and because our income is low, like 150%-200% poverty level for a family of 4, we pay nothing.  If you don't have a job, you wouldn't be required to pay anything yet, but of course anytime you enter forbearance or periods of no payments, interest continues to accrue, and when you enter repayment, that interest is added to the principal.  I think that is ridiculous!!  Can we change that law?  Because anytime misfortune happens (unemployment, sickness, what-have-you) and you can't pay, the interest is just added to the principal then, something you don't even start working down until years after you start paying!

Rita Arens 231 pts

 ldskatelyn I know -- I wish there could be a penalty-free mulligan in the instance of illness or other misfortune.

Conversation from Twitter

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annmariastat
annmariastat

@Python_in_PJs I don't know. More administrators and administrators's salaries + marketing costs at for-profit colleges?

r0b3rta
r0b3rta

@thechrislam I'm aiming for mine to be forgiven :)

Conversation from Facebook

Vicky Cianci
Vicky Cianci

No and not intentionally..part of me is so upset by it that I didn't get my money's worth

On Blank
On Blank

Still owe tons. Plan does nothing for me or hubby. Offended by those who had no qualms about bailing out Bank of America, etc., but think people with student loans are crossing the line by wishing they didn't have that debt to worry about.

Crystal Jones Johnsen
Crystal Jones Johnsen

Allison my option was the same. the best part is that I could have had A FREE education but my parents withheld their tax info from me. i have student loans. it was MY CHOICE. i do not expect anyone else to bear the burden of MY choices. personal responsibility is a long gone characteristic of people these days...it's a sad state.

BlogHer
BlogHer

Laura Lynne Prater OMG your story! Gah! I'm going to have nightmares! - Denise

Allison Currie
Allison Currie

@ Crystal...nice theory but my option was no education or student loans. While I have no problem paying off my debt in theory I pay almost $300 a month in interest alone...that doesnt even go on the principle...while I know I will eventually (thanks to my education) get a better paying job right now I am actually paid very well...and still struggling to even buy necessities like food because my loan payments are so high...there is no negotiation and payments are based on income before taxes taken out and they do not consider any other living expenses. While I fully understand and appreciate the process they would not have nearly as many people default if a. they made university affordable b. they offered more help in the process that didnt need to be paid back c. they offered more options in terms of how to pay it back. An educated workforce helps everyone, the economy, the job market, businesses big and small alike and if big business wants qualified workers then they need to make an effort to make it easier to get qualified.

emily steers
emily steers

together, the fiance and i owe about $80k, but most of it is direct/private loans. i don't know ANYONE who was offered substantial federal loans for school (we graduated in 2005 and 2007, respectively). i understood fully what debt i was getting into for school, but anyone who says that it's a "choice" to go to college isn't of my generation, and doesn't have a realistic world view. even skilled laborers like plumbers and a/c repairmen go to trade school and take on debt. gone are the days that a high school diploma could get you a job! they even ask where you went to college on waitress applications.

Crystal Jones Johnsen
Crystal Jones Johnsen

Here's an idea...everyone should be responsible for their own debts and decisions. The end.

Cheryl Muzynski Sorce
Cheryl Muzynski Sorce

How much more money that we don't have is Obama planning on spending?? The plan is a joke.

Erika Davis
Erika Davis

Yes, the balance is around $50,000 and this new plan does jack s#6t for me. I was really pumped, until I read the plan. How does it help the folks (like you and me ) who are already swimming in debt? Oh yeah, it doesn't

Janet Naylor Vandenabeele
Janet Naylor Vandenabeele

It's not enough, but it's a good start. I need more ways to work off the debt. I am MORE THAN HAPPY to work for a nonprofit if it means loan forgiveness. My husband DOES work for a nonprofit (university), who hired him as a contractor specifically for the Master's Degree he got from THAT INSTITUTION, and pays him $12.50 an hour with zero benefits, not even paid lunch. He should be getting forgiveness, too.

Laura Lynne Prater
Laura Lynne Prater

Oh yeah, the balance looms at right around $50K now...

Laura Lynne Prater
Laura Lynne Prater

Mine is kind of a strange situation....In 1995, a year away from graduation, I had my identity stolen, and Federal Sub. and Unsub. Stafford loans were disbursed to the thief to the tune of about 25K. Fast forward to me trying to get disbursed for my final year's loans, where I was informed that I had exceeded the undergrad loan cap. Upon further investigation and discovery of the theft (especially since the other bogus debts were beginning to surface), I was advised by the financial aid administrator that unless I could swing that final year's tuition myself and finish, it would be advisable to apply to consolidate MY loans. Following this advice I did so, but William D. Ford consolidated the BOGUS loans in there and commingled them inextricably with MY loans, so now I just flat OWE it ALL, with no recourse whatsoever until the day I die...My spouse and I have had to legally separate our assets so the IRS will not come after him for it, I haven't seen a tax refund of my own in over a decade, I still DO NOT HAVE the degrees I was working my fingers to the bone for, and for the last 5 years, I have not even had the whiff of gainful employment. (Do you suppose the crappy credit rating those defaulted student loans have left me saddled with might have something to do with that?) I have had collection agents relentlessly HOUND me both at home, and when I was employed, at my workplace, and there were many deep dark points of utter despair where I was convinced that everyone involved would just be better off if they found me hanging from the rafters of my garage one day (and even now, sometimes those thoughts still surface from time to time). Do you suppose President Obama has something in his Student Loan "Bag of Tricks" for a person in MY particular situation?