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Owning My Thin Privilege

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I'm having a hard time accepting my own thin privilege. RMJ at Deeply Problematic wrote a post
a little bit ago about coming to accept her thin privilege. That was
really the first time that I thought of myself as having thin privilege
and it made me kind of uncomfortable. And I want to explore that
uncomfortableness here.

So what is thin privilege exactly? Anji at Shut Up, Sit Down offers these examples :

For a start, the ‘thin’ in ‘thin privilege’ does not mean “size zero”.
It means “of ‘normal’ weight”. Some examples: If you can walk into Top
Shop, Miss Selfridge or any other high street fashion shop and know
their size range includes your clothing size, you have thin privilege.
If you can book a flight without fear that other passengers will hope
like hell they’re not seated next to you or worse, that you will be
refused entry to the flight because of your size, you have thin
privilege. If you can happily travel by car or bus or train and know
that the seat will be built to accommodate your arse, you have thin
privilege. If you can visit your doctor without being constantly
berated about losing weight and having every physical malady you suffer
attributed to your size and nothing else, you have thin privilege .

So yes, I have thin privilege.

As a child, I was very
slender. But then puberty hit and as I started growing, I started
putting on weight around my middle. Now, I go between a size 12 and 14
in bottoms and between large and x-large in tops, depending on the
store and style. I rarely ever have to be concerned about the fatphobic
things that Anji lists above (depending on the store, I'm not always
guaranteed clothes in my size range). But even without being subject to
blatant fatphobia, I feel as if society judges me for being fat. I have
started to come to terms a little bit with my body. I have started
wearing shorts shorter than knee-length again. I try to dress for my
body type instead of what's "in style."

I am, as some would
say, a woman of "average"* weight and size...though you wouldn't know
it by looking at the media and clothing stores. Because of this, I have
thin privilege. So, why I am so uncomfortable at accepting this kind of
privilege. Part of my interest in feminism is examining different kinds
of privilege and my investments in them. So why is it so hard for me to
accept this privilege?

Society tells us through the media,
clothing stores, new reports, etc. that the "average" is, in fact, a
size 4 - maybe even a size 2. Since puberty, I have not seen myself
reflected in the media and as a result, have not thought of myself as
having thin privilege. There are profits to me made to make women of
all sizes feel bad about themselves, so that is what the media is going
to do.

I try to be aware of fatphobic language and events, but
maybe my denial of accepting my thin privilege contributes to a
fatphobic society. Just because I am self-conscious about my body does
not mean that I don't benefit from thin privilege. I have to start
doing a better job at recognizing my investments in thin priviege.

Coming to terms with one's own thin privilege does not mean that you
will not have any body image issues. Today's society thrives off of
creating body image issues for women (and men). Owning one's thin
privilege is more about realizing the ways that you are invested in the
fatphobic tendencies of society.

*I dislike using the term
"average" or "normal" to describe people's bodies. It implies that
there is something abnormal or not average, when everybody's body is
different. By using this term, I am simply using it statistically...my
body is statistically average. But there really is no such thing as a
"normal" body. Using the term "normal" just contributes to othering and
oppression.

Originally posted at Adventures of a Young Feminist

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sassymonkey 6 pts moderator

I think it's the "thin" that is getting to me. Maybe I've read too many books about body image lately (quite likely) but "thin" is a very loaded word for me, one that is about much more than size. Thin = Perfection ( http://www.blogher.com/perfect-girls-starving-daug... ). It's the holy grail, right? If we're thin enough we'll be happy. If I/you/we were thin, everything would be good, we wouldn't have any problems. Thin brings to mind statements like, "If I just lose those 20/10/5 pounds everything will be ok." (Did I mention I've probably read way too many books about body image in the last year?)

In my mind, that's the societal definition of thin. It's a type of perfection. It feels wrong to me to attach privilege to that because thinness is a false ideal.

I absolutely get what you were saying in your post about how people within a certain size range have advantages in society. Yes, there is size privilege and I can own that I benefit from it. But "thin" is something else entirely to me.

Sassymonkey ( http://sassymonkey.ca/ ) and Sassymonkey Reads ( http://sassymonkeyreads.ca/ ).

lauraalysse 5 pts

Thank you for clarifying your point.  I'm sorry that I misread it in that way.

But I still think that "thin privilege" or "size privilege" is an appropriate term for this.  See the comments from Elisa below, especially the one with links to how overweight people are less likely to get jobs.  Thin privilege in this sense is saying that people who are of a certain size benefit from society's valuing of thinness.  Privilege does not always mean that you are aware of the feeling of entitlement (as you put it) to something at the expense of others.  It does not even mean that you even feel (aware or not) a sense of entitlement at the expense of others.  I use the term privilege as benefiting from something based on society's values of certain characteristics.

I hope that clarifies my point as well.

anopencupboard 5 pts

Thank you, Elisa. That definition makes more sense to me. I still have a problem with the word "privilege,"  however. I see the concept more as an unfair stystem in which one person has an advantage over another for reasons completely outside their control. I am aware of that situation, and I can do my best to help others if I can. But to me the word "privilege" implies that I must carry some guilt for being part of the system. The word "privilege" sets up a dichotomy of those who are part of the system and those who are outside it and struggle against it. That depiction is very cut and dry, and not entirely accurate, in my opinion.

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anopencupboard.com ( http://www.anopencupboard.com ): home is where the food is.

lauraalysse 5 pts

Thank you for clarifying this point.  I am definitely referring to women in this case because I was exploring my own thin privilege.  I do think that men benefit to some extent from thin privilege (see the examples of thin privilege in the original post).  But I still think it is more acceptable for a man to be overweight than a woman.

As I've gotten more and more into this coversation about thin privilege, I am also having an issue with the term as well.  I origianlly used it because that's what I had seen it referred to in other places.  But as I've said in other comments, I'm kind of leaning more towards "size privilege" because you can have size privilege without being thin.  I don't know if that's the problem that you are having with the term, but that is what I've been thinking about.  I'd be interested to hear if you come to some sort of a conclusion about the term.

lauraalysse 5 pts

Thanks for these links and doing the research to find them!  It definitely brings a lot to the plate to think about thin privilege affecting your ability to get a job.

lauraalysse 5 pts

Companies profit (monetarily) from making women feel bad about themselves.  If women (and men) feel bad about themselves, they will continue to buy something to make them look better -- whether it's a pair of jeans, a new mascara, or some new exercise machine.  Customers have the power to some extent, but society tells us what is "in," how we should dress, how we should act, where we should shop, etc.

anopencupboard 5 pts

I did not say there is no such thing as thin privilege or that society is not fatphobic. I said I do not accept the word "privilege." I am saying that I think your definition of "thin privilege" is sweeping and that the use of the word "privilege" itself is not useful in describing the concept I think you're trying to describe. It may be easier for me to book a seat on a plane than a person who is outside the statistical range of size. I don't perceive this fact as making me privileged. The word "privilege" implies that I feel an entitlement to fair treatment at the expense of others. This is not the case. I believe that all people should be treated fairly, and I believe it's wrong when people are treated unfairly because they are perceived as "different." I therefore perceive the system as being unfair. Everyone, regardless of their size, should have the right to not be discriminated against.  

Further, I don't see how accusing me of being complicit in fatphobia is condusive to an open, honest discussion of concepts. Unless your objective is to frame your ideology as absolute truth.  

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anopencupboard.com ( http://www.anopencupboard.com ): home is where the food is.

Elisa Camahort 5 pts

Adding that to my bookmarks (along with the Unpacking the Knapsack article, of course!)

Elisa Camahort Page
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My BlogHer profile ( http://www.blogher.com/haystackprofile/viewprofile... ) truly shows you everything I do online...Check it out!!

lauraalysse 5 pts

"The word "privilege" carries with it tremendous baggage and value judgment, one that I don't wish to apply to myself."

Privilege is a part of society, whether you want to associate yourself with it or not.  Privilege is something that needs to be examined and recognized in oneself if one is going to fight against oppression.  Just because someone has "thin privilege" does not mean that they are not discriminated against in some other way - even sometimes for being thin.  Everyone's body is going to be discriminated against in some way because it is being judged against the unattainable "perfect" body that is shown in the media.

While there may be instances someone might be discriminated against for being thin -- or too thin -- it's also inconsiderate to say that we do not live in a fatphobic society and that there is no such thing as thin privilege.  By denying that there is such a thing, you are complicit in thin privilege and fatphobia.

I encourage you to read this article ( http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2006-03-08_... ) about privilege.

sassymonkey 6 pts moderator

Because it's far more socially acceptable in North America to be an overweight man than an overweight woman. After all, it was just a couple of weeks ago that I read in the New York Times that having a beer belly is in for me, or as they put it it's hip to be round ( http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/13/fashion/13POTBEL... ).

I can accept that there is size privilege and as someone who has always been a rather small individual I can certainly say I benefit from it. I totally get that and can own it.

But there's something about "thin privilege" as a term that makes me frown and furrow my brow. I've been trying to put my finger on it all day and it's just not working out in my mind. And again, it's not because I don't benefit from it because I do and I can acknowledge that. It's going to eat away at me a bit more before I can figure out it. Maybe my brain will churn on it while I'm asleep tonight.

Sassymonkey ( http://sassymonkey.ca/ ) and Sassymonkey Reads ( http://sassymonkeyreads.ca/ ).

Elisa Camahort 5 pts

While it is not about size or body discrimination, I recommend reading:

White Privilege: Unpacking the invisible knapsack ( http://womenscreativecollective.org/blog/2009/01/w... )

It does a good job at talking about this concept of how being unaware of privilege is a symptom of that privilege.

You may still think it doesn't apply to this case, but it's a good read, instructive for this discussion and explains why it isn't circular logic :)

Elisa Camahort Page
BlogHer
elisa@blogher.com

My BlogHer profile ( http://www.blogher.com/haystackprofile/viewprofile... ) truly shows you everything I do online...Check it out!!

Elisa Camahort 5 pts

Found these:

MSNBC: Fat chance: It's not easy for obese workers ( http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16755130 ) (from 2007)

Legal Workplace: Weight Discrimination In The Workplace: Realities And Legalities ( http://www.legalworkplace.com/weight-discriminatio... ) (from 2008, references Yale study) and includes this paragraph re: gender differences:

Men and women are held to different weight standards. In 2000, the 9th Circuit held that an airline's weight-limit requirement that applied less favorably to female employees than male employees and that could not be justified as a bona fide occupational qualification was discriminatory on its face. Men were limited to maximum weights that corresponded to large body frames for men; women were limited to maximum weights that corresponded to medium body frames for women. The U.S. Supreme Court declined to review the decision. (Frank v. United Airlines, Inc., 9th Cir., No. 98-15638, 2000)

The Yale study found that overweight women are twice as likely to face discrimination than overweight men. Plus, the discrimination starts earlier in women's weight gain. According to the study, discrimination becomes a more serious risk for men when their BMI reaches 35; for women, at BMI 27.

There are a ton more links when you Google overweight discrimination in the workplace ( http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls... ).

Elisa Camahort Page
BlogHer
elisa@blogher.com

My BlogHer profile ( http://www.blogher.com/haystackprofile/viewprofile... ) truly shows you everything I do online...Check it out!!

anopencupboard 5 pts

So you're proving your argument by saying that other people's negation of your argument is proof itself!  

That's circular logic.

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anopencupboard.com ( http://www.anopencupboard.com ): home is where the food is.

anopencupboard 5 pts

My comment about having store employees call people cows was facetious. My point was that your description of stores being interested in shaming customers was not really accurate. The point of a company is to make money. The company will do whatever it perceives as being beneficial to that goal. If the company thinks more women will buy its products by promoting an image of only size 2 models wearing its products, that what it will do. If the company thinks more women will buy its products by including models of all sizes, that's what it will do. It's a question of human psychology as a basis for good marketing and ad copy, and also the company marketing people's *perception* of customer psychology. If enough customers make a stink about a particular issue, the company *will* change its tactics because its goal is to make money, not to shame people. Witness, for example, the offensive t-shirts produced by Ambercrombie and Fitch a few years ago. Enough people got angry enough about these shirts that the company stopped making them, IIRC.

Positive examples that I remember from the 80's include Bennetton and Esprit. The former became famous for using models of different ethnicities and races, while the latter used customers of different ages (and even sizes, to some degree), rather than models, wrinkles and all. 

On the other hand, I found Dove's recent campaign about "real women" to be pretty obnoxious. Sure, their ads included women of different sizes. But they were advertising a product that supposedly removes cellulite. I don't look like any of the "real women" in their ads. Does that make me a "fake woman?" And I don't think "real women" need to remove their cellulite. Pretty rude to market a product to "real women" in all their natural beauty only to turn around and tell these women they need to buy a product to make themselves prettier.

I think to some degree, customers have a lot of power here. We can decide where to shop and where not to shop. Etsy.com, for example, has a lot of entrepreneurial clothiers who tailor to many sizes.

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anopencupboard.com ( http://www.anopencupboard.com ): home is where the food is.

sassymonkey 6 pts moderator

Especially if it breaks it down between men and women.

Sassymonkey ( http://sassymonkey.ca/ ) and Sassymonkey Reads ( http://sassymonkeyreads.ca/ ).

anopencupboard 5 pts

How do you differentiate between "privilege" and suffering from discrimination? Is it possible, in your view, for a person to enjoy "thin privilege" and simultaneously suffer from size discriminiation? If that is possible, then what does it mean to enjoy "thin privilege?" These two ideas seem to be at odds with each other, even paradoxical. My main issue here is with the use of the phrase "thin privilege" as it implies that a very large category of people enjoy a certain entitlement simply by virtue of their size. I would say that many people within a certain range of size have probably not experienced discrimination such as being charged for two seats on a plane. However, this doesn't mean that these people who fall within the statistical range of body size are therefore "privileged." I would say that a person who falls outside the statistical range of body size should have the right not to face such discrimination, as everyone does. I would even venture to say that your categorization of people within the statistical range of body size as having "thin privilege" is the same type of categorization made by the stores and ad companies you complain about. The ideological construct of us/them in the form of people of size/those with "thin privilege," is essentially the same line of reasoning as the economic construct of us/them in the form of sizes 0-12/so-called "plus sizes." The word "privilege" carries with it tremendous baggage and value judgment, one that I don't wish to apply to myself. Instead, why not approach the idea of bodies and body perception as individual? Everyone's body is different, and no matter what one's size, people may have all sort of perceptions and issues related to their body. 

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anopencupboard.com ( http://www.anopencupboard.com ): home is where the food is.

Denise 9 pts moderator

that doesn't work for me either at the time. But, I've been thinking about it off and on all day, particularly while I was talking about race and class in a health care discussion but also while I was researching a post I'm thinking about on another topic altogether.

I do not deny that I benefit from fat-phobia and fat discrimination. I do. Just like I also benefit from racism because I'm a white person. I also recognize that straight folks benefit from homophobia and the list could really go on and on.

Any time someone is outside the norm, the social accepted median, the socially accepted lifestyle - they are marginalized. And those who fall into place, within the social constructs set for us, benefit.

So I've come back around and while I'm not thrilled with thin privilege, I'll own it. And I expect white folks to own their white privilege, abled to own their abled privilege, straights to own their straight privilege.

The bigger question is, once you own that you are indeed benefiting from a social norm or social construct, you have to decide what to do (if anything) about that.

Do you boycott marriage and the privilege marriage gives you until there is no more discrimination of those who are unmarried?

Do you refuse to use establishments that do not provide appropriate disabled access until those establishments provide them.

Again, I could go on and on... you've got me thinking, in case I hadn't mentioned that.~Denise
BlogHer Community Manager

Flamingo House Happenings ( http://www.flamingohouse.net/ )

Elisa Camahort 5 pts

Thought-provoking post.

But so far I think people are missing the point that "privilege" doesn't meant you have *no problems*. Just as being white and enjoying white privilege doesn't mean you have no problems. Same goes for being male.

I think the important data is not about things like: Can you buy clothes? There are clothing shops that cater to plus sizes, for example, so it's hard to argue that the inconvenience of having to shop at such shops is truly burdensome.

Rather, the important data is this: Are you less likely to get a job, or be paid as much for your work (despite relative equivalent skills and experience) if you are not thin.

I think the data has shown "yes", and I'll have to go see if I can find those studies. That is where "thin privilege" as a concept would really resonate for me.

Elisa Camahort Page
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lauraalysse 5 pts

Not seeing thin privilege in action is what being privileged is all about.  I'm not saying you are not discriminated against for being underweight.  Everybody will be discriminated against for some part of their body because no one has that unattainable "perfect" body that is portrayed in the media.  But not recognizing that you have some privilege for being thin is a symptom of our fatphobic society.

lauraalysse 5 pts

"Most people in the US are getting fat because they eat so much."

 This is not true.  Sure there are some people who eat so much that makes them obese, but that's their decision, not anyone else's.  But most of the time it has to do with body type and there actually isn't that much control over someone's weight.  There is a misconception in this country that healthy automatically equals thin.  You can be healthy and not thin and you can be thin and not healthy.  I consider myself a moderately health person, but I do not identify myself as thin.

lauraalysse 5 pts

"Until then, I reject the idea that I am privileged just because I don't
suffer from the egregious discrimination that some people do."

Privilege is not suffering and even benefiting from a discrimination that others suffer from.

There are other ways to shame someone other than calling them a "cow."  When only size 2 people with "perfect" bodies are shown in ads and clothing stores, anyone who doesn't have that unattainable "perfect" body feels bad about themselves in some way.  And I'm not saying that thin people do not face any kind of discrimination.  Everybody will face some sort of bodily discrimination.  This post was more meant to explore the meanings of thin privilege and how our society has come to associate "thin" with size 4, so someone, like me, who definitely benefits from some of the things thin privilege describes has a hard time accepting this thin privilege.

refashionista 5 pts

In theory I'd have "thin privilege", except "tp" doesn't always match up with "boob privilege". Clothes are designed for small chests and small butts -- not tiny waists and big chests.

 I don't buy into the "thin privilege" because I rarely see it in action.

FTR, it's possible to be naturally on the lighter side of the weight issue and still be berated by one's doctor at each visit about weight issues -- namely, not weighing enough. There are weight/size issues at both ends of the spectrum. Being a size 2 or 4 doesn't mean you can buy off the rack -- just as having a "magical" weight of 120 - 130 lbs and an average height also does not equate buying off the rack. Bodies come in all shapes and sizes, y'know?

Should I feel discriminated against because I'm normally underweight for my height, despite eating appropriate foods/quantities, and have an annoyingly large chest? Should I feel discriminated against because I'm fairly tall for a woman, but have short legs and need to hem my pants? 

Seems to me that all the effort spent worrying about whether I'm being discriminated or not would only end up making me feel bad about my self-image in general..

Flightkeeper 5 pts

Is this just another way to feel guilty over something?  It sounds silly.  Seats are for normal size people.  Most people in the US are getting fat because they eat so much. How is this anything to get guilty over?

http://flightkeeper.blogspot.com ( http://flightkeeper.blogspot.com/ )

http://cutefuncool.blogspot.com ( http://cutefuncool.blogspot.com/ )

anopencupboard 5 pts

I don't buy the idea that because someone of a different size may face discrimination that I am therefore "privileged." To me this sounds like a myopic categorization of victim and oppressor that really isn't accurate. True, I can walk into a number of stores and find something in my size, and possibly even an item that flatters my body type. This doesn't mean that I am privileged. It does mean that my body type happens to fall into the statistical range to which many clothing companies target their products. That's numbers, arithmetic... not privilege. 

Let us put the shoe on the other foot, shall we? Many stores carry items in my size. However, I have a very short torso and longer legs, yet I'm quite short. I need to hem almost every pair of jeans and trousers I buy. Tops and t-shirts are a different matter. I'd say 6 or 7 out of 10 top simply don't flatter me, because they're made for someone with a body shaped differently from my own. Am I then, discriminated against? Do women larger than myself who have hourglass figures therefore possess an hourglass privilege while I must suffer rectangular discrimination?

It's a numbers game. Shops don't make money by shaming women. If they did, they'd make much larger profit margins by simply paying their employees to shout obscenities at their customers: "You there! You look like a cow! That'll be $89.99 please!" Clothing companies make money by selling products that many women buy. One could argue that they might make more money by expanding their line of products to include additional shapes and sizes, thus reaching a larger population of women. When that happens, I'll certainly applaud--and benefit from--their efforts.

Until then, I reject the idea that I am privileged just because I don't suffer from the egregious discrimination that some people do. I empathize with their plight, but I also recognize that everyone has body issues. Nobody looks like a model. And guess what? Those who do often suffer from body issues too.

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anopencupboard.com ( http://www.anopencupboard.com ): home is where the food is.

anopencupboard 5 pts

I don't buy the idea that because someone of a different size may face discrimination that I am therefore "privileged." To me this sounds like a myopic categorization of victim and oppressor that really isn't accurate. True, I can walk into a number of stores and find something in my size, and possibly even an item that flatters my body type. This doesn't mean that I am privileged. It does mean that my body type happens to fall into the statistical range to which many clothing companies target their products. That's numbers, arithmetic... not privilege. 

Let us put the shoe on the other foot, shall we? Many stores carry items in my size. However, I have a very short torso and longer legs, yet I'm quite short. I need to hem almost every pair of jeans and trousers I buy. Tops and t-shirts are a different matter. I'd say 6 or 7 out of 10 top simply don't flatter me, because they're made for someone with a body shaped differently from my own. Am I then, discriminated against? Do women larger than myself who have hourglass figures therefore possess an hourglass privilege while I must suffer rectangular discrimination?

It's a numbers game. Shops don't make money by shaming women. If they did, they'd make much larger profit margins by simply paying their employees to shout obscenities at their customers: "You there! You look like a cow! That'll be $89.99 please!" Clothing companies make money by selling products that many women buy. One could argue that they might make more money by expanding their line of products to include additional shapes and sizes, thus reaching a larger population of women. When that happens, I'll certainly applaud--and benefit from--their efforts.

Until then, I reject the idea that I am privileged just because I don't suffer from the egregious discrimination that some people do. I empathize with their plight, but I also recognize that everyone has body issues. Nobody looks like a model. And guess what? Those who do often suffer from body issues too.

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anopencupboard.com ( http://www.anopencupboard.com ): home is where the food is.

lauraalysse 5 pts

In the comments on my original posts, someone brought up the idea of "size privilege" as opposed to "thin privilege."  I really like this concept.  There definitely is "thin privilege," but for people like me who identify as fat, aren't thin, but aren't obese, these people have size privilege.  They benefit for many of the examples of thin privilege that I touched on in my post, but are still oppressed because they are not thin.

I've been getting some great feedback from this post, which is why I wanted to post it here, to get even more people in on the conversation.  So thanks for posting links to it elsewhere as well!

Denise 9 pts moderator

First, thanks for writing this post on BlogHer and linking to others who are discussing this. I read the links and the comments in each link (including your original post, on your blog.)

(I also tweeted this post from the @blogher account and added it to the BlogHer Facebook page.)

As I read all of these posts and comments, I'm torn about whether to indicate everyone who is not the societal standard of obese benefits from thin privilege. Is that really accurate?

Is it true that because there is fat phobia and discrimination against people who are fat, that we immediately also have thin privilege?

It feels... not quite accurate. Not wrong, but just not exactly true.

I'm going to be thinking about this all day!

~Denise
BlogHer Community Manager

Flamingo House Happenings ( http://www.flamingohouse.net/ )