Paltrow & PETA: How do vegetarians draw the line?

I went to a 'county fair' in 1976.  These 4H kids were showing their animals (I thought pets) and this guy with a mic is talking about them, when I realize this is NOT like a dog show or judging for their 'cuteness' but for the cuts of meat.  That was the "IT" moment for me. I cried. I used to complain about hunters shooting deer and would never eat it, but I was buying my meat at the grocery and McDonalds and not putting the face with it.  Well this was "IT". I had made the connection between that beautiful face, lovely sweet brown eyes and long lashes, to that package of pink stuff I bought, cooked and ate. It was all over. No more eating animals of any kind.  People ask if I eat fish, well if it bleeds or breathes, no, I do not, so no fish either, and never have since 1976.  My Cholesterol levels etc are just great. Protein is 'normal' in my blood counts.  I drive a car with cloth seats. (much nicer actually, not hot in the summer or cold in the winter). I do not use fur. There are plenty of shoes, purses, and coats of manmade material and even 'Pleather'. I have a jacket that many thought was leather, plus it cost 25.00.  I drink soy milk and love it. I do occass. use cheese and egg so not quite vegan but working on it.  I am 57 years old and was 24 when I stopped eating animals. I love it..  So hang in there all.  Many times I was mocked and asked questions like "what do you eat?"  as tho there is nothing but meat. There was no internet and I found some help in books.  Now there is such a wealth of free information its wonderful, and support too. Most of the time I was the only vegetarian I knew.  I have one friend that stopped eating animals this past year and how refreshing it is to find someone that 'understands'.   So Bless you all on your journey

Sandy

I like that so many of the comments here have mentioned "doing the best we can". I think that's all we can ask of people, to do the best they can at any given time. I'm the only non-vegetarian in my family-of-birth.  Instead, my husband and I do the best we can to make sure any meat milk or eggs we eat have been ethically and sustainably raised. We buy from local farmers, and I don't eat meat in restaurants. It's a compromise I can deal with.

Read more about  animals and/or local eating at 
 http://bones-would-rain.blogspot.com ( http://bones-would-rain.blogspot.com/ )
 http://palocalvore.blogspot.com ( http://palocalvore.blogspot.com/ )
http://yumminessnsues.blogspot.com ( http://yumminessnsues.blogspot.com/ )

I think we are too easily labelled, whether we give them to ourselves or others place them on us.  I don't recall Gwyneth ever being an advocate for macrobiotics or yoga.  And just because a friend of hers is a member of PETA doesn't mean she is or should be. Perhaps there are some contradictions here, but I don't see her as a hypocrite.

There is a difference between being an animal advocate or eating a diet free of meat and/or animal products.  I believe in animal protection, but do wear leather shoes.  If this upsets some, I'm sorry. My contradictions don't stop there, though.

I don't eat dairy because it makes me snotty (it's not just an attitude).  I haven't had red meat since Live Aid (yeah, that long ago).  Last year, I went vegan -- diet, not lifestyle.  Let me tell you, that's hard, even in LA.  I knew there would be one exception to that diet:  Cake.  Look, birthdays happen, and I was not going to be the stick in the mud and skip the celebratory slice.  Contradiction, I know.  Outside of that, there were no eggs at breakfast (except in the pancakes, which, yes, have dairy, too), no chicken stock-based vegetable soups (which never made sense to me), or brie.  Veganaise dressed my Tofurkey sandwiches, which I thought were actually hypocritical.  What's the point of eating something animal-esque as a vegan?

Not always able to convince my friends to dine with my at A Votre Sante (my favorite, and sort of a middle ground for them since they could get chicken or fish there), I found myself existing on hummus and pita or chips and salsa (making sure they left the cheese off the salsa) when we went out.  Sometimes I need more than a salad, and not everyone offers a vegetable platter.  After six months of this, and staring at yet another limited menu, I threw in the towel and brought fish back into the mix. So, what does that make me?  A failed vegan?  A pescatarian?  If I have to have a label (because it can help with dinner party planning), I would say I'm a ficakan:  a vegan who occasionally eats fish or cake. 

My diet was never political.  I don't want to be aligned with any group because of what I do or don't eat.  I chose a vegan diet for the health benefits, but was aware of the environmental benefits, too.  If I had my druthers, I would be a full-on vegan, but it just doesn't work for me right now.  I'm simply doing the best I can.  I recycle, take my re-usable bags into stores, have given up bottled water and imbibe from my pink Camelbak container.  I don't wear fur but, along with the leather, there is wool and silk and cashmere in my closet.  I don't drive a hybrid, but feel that I'm recycling my 2000 Jetta each time I drive her (and she does have leather seats, so add that to the list of sins).  I do the best I can, being as aware as I can, trying to make improvements as I go.

As far as Gwyneth goes, it's just an ad, not a manifesto.  Yes, it's a "promotion", but it's not like she's taking to the streets and making speeches.  The ad ran in Vogue; it's not in schoolbooks.  We have a right to our opinion on her and it, but she has a right to her choice as well as her contradictions.  Go see her movies or don't.  Buy Tod's or Lauder or don't.  I just think that there are more important things to focus on, and better ways to enlighten than to point fingers and malign (I'm speaking to PETA with that, not the people in this thread).  We are human and prone to missteps.  I'm just glad I get to make mine away from the public's eyes, aren't you?

Thanks for the great post, ClizBiz, and the fabulous dialogue it inspired!

Cheers,

Sandra

Read more at http://ruawake.com/ or follow me at http://twitter.com/msmiller

To greenergirl, I think you misunderstood what I was saying because I too think that militant attitudes don't foster growth, especially when accompanied by personal attacks and judgements.  It's easy to be in our own groups (whether they be religious, ethical, political, etc.) and talk about being works in progress, but there's no real growth or peace until we learn to do that with other groups of people.  I'm sorry if you misunderstood me.  Like I said, I'm talking about personal relations.

Look, of course, everyone is a hypocrite to some extent and everyone is a work in progress.  What I'm saying is that if you are in my face making rude gestures and comments about something, I will absolutely call you on it and think you are a judgmental hypocrite because if you don't say things with the context that ALL are works in progress and you are arrogant, you will be judged in return.   I was speaking in regards to Paltrow - people assume she is an animal rights activist because she is a vegetarian.  I don't think wearing fur is right either but I don't think people should assume B equals A.  As Erica stated, this is not always the case.   

I am not calling all vegetarians hypocrites, I am talking about people who act without humility and self-awareness, look at yourself first, we are all works in progress.  

http://watermelonmama.wordpress.com/

I think we all have to draw our own lines. And of course, high-profile celebrities are going to get taken to task far before the rest of us. But at least we're getting some food for thought out of this one.

I've been a vegetarian now for 8 years. I grew up on a ranch where I learned from an early age that my pet cow Dandelion was turned into Dandelion Burgers. And my main reason for my vegetarism is that I'm much more comfortable eating Dandelion Burgers than Cow #145 Burgers from my local supermarket. At least, I knew and helped Dandelion have a better life. I think a lot of people assume that all vegetarians/vegans are that way because they think eating animals is super wrong and perhaps that assumption is where we get such staunch criticisms like that of Paltrow's ad. 

Erica

http://design.sliverofice.com

Agreed. I think we should squirrel up some t-shirts: "Work in Progress" for everyone who is working on this self-issue. 

~ClizBiz 

BlogHer Contributing Editor, Photography ( http://blogher.org/node/19958 ) & Animal Concerns, Proprietor, ClizBiz ( http://www.clizbiz.blogspot.com/ )

Oooooh, I forgot about the Estee Lauder gig. Thanks for remindine me. Interesting choices she is making here. 

Agree about the celebrities being role models. Not healthy and not good but, I'm afraid, this is a reality that is here to stay.

~ClizBiz  

BlogHer Contributing Editor, Photography ( http://blogher.org/node/19958 ) & Animal Concerns, Proprietor, ClizBiz ( http://www.clizbiz.blogspot.com/ )

Yes, the responses to this post have really driven home the idea of folks really striving to make personal changes v. the idea of being a hypocrite, which we all are, in some area of our lives. I love this:

"I don't pat myself on the back but I sure don't myself up."  Bingo!

~ClizBiz 

BlogHer Contributing Editor, Photography ( http://blogher.org/node/19958 ) & Animal Concerns, Proprietor, ClizBiz ( http://www.clizbiz.blogspot.com/ )

Yeah, I don't think Pam was aware and she must have been PISSED when she found out about the KFC sponsorship. As for Paltrow, I have no idea. She looks impeccably regret-free in those ads so ..... dunno.

You said the two magic words here: "thought" and "consideration" and I think that's a great start to making changes on this front.

Agreed: Animal products have touched nearly every product in our lives. This only proves how much we have come to rely on them as a natural resource. Weird to think about it this way but so true.

~ClizBiz 

BlogHer Contributing Editor, Photography ( http://blogher.org/node/19958 ) & Animal Concerns, Proprietor, ClizBiz ( http://www.clizbiz.blogspot.com/ )

Glad to be of service. I'm a big fan of clever quotes. One can never memorize too many.

~ClizBiz 

BlogHer Contributing Editor, Photography ( http://blogher.org/node/19958 ) & Animal Concerns, Proprietor, ClizBiz ( http://www.clizbiz.blogspot.com/ )

My decision to call myself "hypocritical" above.

I don't actually think hypocrisy only comes when one judges others by different standards than oneself. I do think it's also when one behaves differently than one would have oneself behave.

That being said...I don't feel it is contradictory, nor particularly negative, to believe BOTH that I am a work in progress who is doing what I can do until I can do better, and that it's a little hypocritical for me to feel strongly about what is the right path without being 100% on it myself.

I prefer to think of it as both realistic (aren't we all a little bit hypocritical, at least about something in our lives?) and, more importantly, motivating.

Elisa Camahort Page
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My BlogHer profile ( http://www.blogher.com/haystackprofile/viewprofile... ) truly shows you everything I do online...Check it out!!

When it comes to Celebrity I have no problem with hypocrisy.. that is the nature of the business. I think the real issue is when you look to them to espouse and advocate any lifestyle choice that you embrace with the same passion and consistency.  Role models are not celebrities nor should they be expected to be... and I wonder about her Estee Lauder job as well.. are they free of animal testing, etc?  I can't expect a celebrity to make decisions that will affect my decisions nor do I want them to.  

There are some great insights here, particulary around the positive view of being a work in progress vs. the negative view of being a hypocrite. Militant attitudes don't foster growth. I'm vegetarian and wouldn't allow leather seats in my car, because, really, does one really need leather seats? I still eat cheese though I buy from local organic dairies, I wear leather shoes because, hey, I have a lot of them. I blog about natural beauty products, but still have a bit of a Bobbi Brown "problem".

There are a lot of things that appear to be contradictions in my life, but I'm infinitely more aware than I was even a couple of years ago. I'm doing what I can and trying to evolve all the time. I don't pat myself on the back but sure don't beat myself up.

That said, Gwyneth didn't need the money and having been so vocal about her choices, she surely should have known better. And yah - I have leather shoes but fur really sucks. : )

peace,

greenergirl

greenergirl.typepad.com

First let me say that it is whack about Pam finding out KFC is a major supporter of her TV show. Yikes, she like totally hates KFC. Not good news to hear.

As for Paltrow and FUR, i was truly surprised to read about the ad. She doesn/ didnt appear as that type. I hope she renegs and changes her mind. Because it isnt just the fact that she is wearing fur, but the fact that she is PROMOTING FUR. Not good.

I wonder if she got a boatload of money she just couldnt refuse, or what was it that made her become their spokesmodel?

Im not a vegan, but a vegetarian. But i do live my life as animal cruelty free as possible. At the very least i give it thought and my consideration. It is a heated topic, and a volatile issue. Those who have been eating meat since birth, are very scared of the mere thought of vegetarianism. I was born and raised on meat, so if i can do it, anyone can. It is very doable and very possible.

Let me finish by saying that it is nearly impossible to be 100% animal free, as unfortunately manufacturers use animal parts on just about everything. But it is my hope that in time, this practice will lessen.

I use that A. Whitney Brown line, ""I'm not a vegetarian because I love animals; I'm a vegetarian because I hate plants.", all the time, but had by now forgotten where I got it.

Thanks for reminding me!

Elisa Camahort Page
BlogHer
elisa@blogher.com

My BlogHer profile ( http://www.blogher.com/haystackprofile/viewprofile... ) truly shows you everything I do online...Check it out!!

You're right, different reasoning for different vegetarians. However, most vegans I talk to, have made their choice based on animal welfare. 

Either way, this decision is much like religion - a very personal one. I guess the first step - again, in both cases - is awareness. 

~ClizBiz  

BlogHer Contributing Editor, Photography ( http://blogher.org/node/19958 ) & Animal Concerns, Proprietor, ClizBiz ( http://www.clizbiz.blogspot.com/ )

This is always my concern when it comes to an animal dying for human pleasure - is anything being wasted here? Unless all parts of an animal are used, we are being greedy and ungrateful. Most hunters that are true sportsmen, try to be respectful of the animal and grateful for the lives they've given. 

The rest of us don't have such a personal knowledge of the process behind an animal's carcass and are left to wonder: Who does what with each part? It's something worth investigating. 

I was happy to read that you still keep and wear your pre-V leather goods. Even if I someday become a full-fledged vegetarian, I have zero intention of giving up my beloved cowhide purse that I've been carrying for years. Nope. Not going to do it. Does it honor the animal by throwing it away? I think not.

I guess that's a debate for another post ...

~ClizBiz 

BlogHer Contributing Editor, Photography ( http://blogher.org/node/19958 ) & Animal Concerns, Proprietor, ClizBiz ( http://www.clizbiz.blogspot.com/ )

Wow. You and are a lot alike. Taste-wise, lamb is my favorite meat and I try to avoid it at all costs, for the same reasons you mentioned. I'd be eating somebody's baby! While it's still a baby! It doesn't get more barbaric than that. 

I recall eating kangaroo while I was in OZ and your doctor has a good point. What do they do with all those Roos that are culled? Are they just tossing them? I hope not. Might be worth looking into. 

Baby steps for all of us, Genevieve! My new slogan: "Taking baby steps is better than eating them." 

~ClizBiz 

BlogHer Contributing Editor, Photography ( http://blogher.org/node/19958 ) & Animal Concerns, Proprietor, ClizBiz ( http://www.clizbiz.blogspot.com/ )

Glad to know I am not the only one who uses their pets and animal friends to put oneself on the spot. Your story about Arya is an ironic one. I think 'exercises' like this are necessary for those of us that are striving to be more mindful with our choices. 

Bottom line, the more suffering we can cut out of this world, the better off we'll all be. 

~ClizBiz 

BlogHer Contributing Editor, Photography ( http://blogher.org/node/19958 ) & Animal Concerns, Proprietor, ClizBiz ( http://www.clizbiz.blogspot.com/ )

I don't know if all vegetarians have animals' best interests at heart considering some just do it for the diet. 

But yes, I agree with you that we are all works in progress and we all make mistakes - meat eaters and vegetarians.  It's not a meat-eater thing, it's not a vegetarian thing, it's a human thing.  

Vegetarians can seem or be hypocritical, but people should know we have animal's best interests at heart. I reason that leather is a by-product of the fast food and meat industry. You may as well use all parts of the animal. You don't really support that industry when you buy leather.....or do you?

Needless to say, I don't buy leather anymore although I do have those old leather shoes, jackets and purses that are going to get seen by people that know I am a vegetarian. I usually just say, I got this before I became a vegetarian.

As for fur? To me, that is just inexcusable. I would guess for the most part that the meat from fur is not usually eaten and most likely the animal was not treated humanely. I would not wear it for any money.

With Paltrow being such an animal rights activist, it is suprising she allowed herself to be photographed in fur. I am guessing when it came time for the photo shoot, she was probably suprised to see fur in the wardrobe, but may have felt obligated to wear it. Or maybe he had a moment (as we all do at times) where she did not feel comfortable speaking out about it. Well, she is paying for it now. I guess we all make our mistakes.

GreenMoms, Melinda

www.GreenMomsCoastside.com ( http://www.greenmomscoastside.com/ )

Green On! Your Children Will Thank You For It.

 As a crazy meat-eater, can I point out that at least the vegans I come across are endeavouring to draw lines that make some sense! unlike my crazy notions which have evolved in a completely wilful and poorly developed fashion.

 Just for starters, I finally swore off lamb yesterday. My children are growing up and leaving, and it was almost a possibility to casserole some healthy looking lamb for a treat - and I said to myself, NO, it's a baby animal! DON'T. I thank my kids for that, they always protested that eating lambs was sad.

I buy free-range eggs and chicken, which will sound bizarre to vegans, but this is even weirder. Over here in Oz, if you are a vegan and you become anaemic, the doctor often suggests eating kangaroo for a while because it is so high in iron (about three times higher than any other meat.)

Kangaroos do not require as much energy from the planet to produce very high quality protein indeed. They are a problem in this country and are sometimes culled. But do you think I could ever bring myself to eat one? Or an emu? NOOOOO, and simply for sentimental reasons. They are simply too beautiful, to my mind, to eat. I would never, for the same reason, buy something made of kangaroo fur for a souvenir for anyone. (Though I did recently admire a magnificent modern sculpture made of emu feathers.)

So don't worry, I think you're all doing a super job! Miles ahead of me. ANd I love that quote from Alexei Sayle, by the way.

Genevieve blogs at
reeling and writhing
( http://austlit.typepad.com/cfn ) and
library sputnik ( http://austlit.edublogs.org )

>>Would I order a bowl of Simone Soup? Or a Bob Burger? A side of Millie Wings? <<

 I TOTALLY relate to this!  It wasn't until my poor kitty Arya broke her leg and required $2,000 in medical expenses that it ocurred to me how weird it is that I'd spend that kind of money to save one animal while thinking nothing of cutting up and eating another.

I have not reached complete vegetarianism, not to mention veganism, but this question does go through my head a lot more these days and helps me to be more aware of and conscious of the actual suffering I am helping to cause by eating or using animals.

Thanks for this post. 

Beth Terry http://www.fakeplasticfish.com

 Thanks ClizBiz!  I think a lot of people underestimate how important it is for kids to see their parents interact with other adults in various situations.

from my blog:
12 Things You Can Do To Set a Healthy Example for Your Kids ( http://www.ideasforwomen.com/news/parenting/2008/0... ) - can you think of any others to add to the list?

Trisha,

Hey - I loved the list on your blog! I think you have included all the major points but the only one I would add is: "Be Polite." I know that watching my parents treat people with respect - especially waitresses, service people, any stranger - made a big impression on me and tried to emulate that policy. So far, so good!

~ClizBiz 

BlogHer Contributing Editor, Photography ( http://blogher.org/node/19958 ) & Animal Concerns, Proprietor, ClizBiz ( http://www.clizbiz.blogspot.com/ )

MiT,

Oooooh, I didn't know that about the breast implants. You're right about the judgement thing. Isn't there the 'Let he who is without sin cast the first stone' rule? We'd all do well to remember that one - it's a good 'un. 

Yes, the leather-wearers always seem to conveniently forget that the are actually the second owners of that hide.  Pfffft.

~ClizBiz 

BlogHer Contributing Editor, Photography ( http://blogher.org/node/19958 ) & Animal Concerns, Proprietor, ClizBiz ( http://www.clizbiz.blogspot.com/ )

Leslie,

Thanks for the encouragement and the enlightening facts. I am slowly realizing how much animal history and residue permeates our human lives through food and products. Seems the only way around it is to find a cave and start eating dirt. With my luck, I'd probably end up with a mouthful of worms and more guilt! 

I really like the 'work in progress' view - mind if I steal it? Also, thanks for the link - very useful.

~ClizBiz 

BlogHer Contributing Editor, Photography ( http://blogher.org/node/19958 ) & Animal Concerns, Proprietor, ClizBiz ( http://www.clizbiz.blogspot.com/ )

I eat a near vegetarian diet but it has nothing to do with animal issues - its about eating more healthy.  I imagine there are a lot of people like me who eat very little if any meat but aren't animal rights people.

from my blog:
12 Things You Can Do To Set a Healthy Example for Your Kids ( http://www.ideasforwomen.com/news/parenting/2008/0... ) - can you think of any others to add to the list?

Elisa,

Very interesting - the outside-the-body approach v. inside-the-body. Looking at the diet v. lifestyle angle, I can see where it comes down to what each person can manage within their own lives.

My new philosophy: Do what I can do until I can do better. Thanks!

~ClizBiz 

BlogHer Contributing Editor, Photography ( http://blogher.org/node/19958 ) & Animal Concerns, Proprietor, ClizBiz ( http://www.clizbiz.blogspot.com/ )

I think, in terms of any sort of belief (whether it be what we eat, who we pray to, what we consider to be ethical behaviour, etc), one is considered a hypocrite when one judges others harshly and then acts in contrast to his/her own judgments.  I'm not sure if Gwyneth Paltrow has been publicly denouncing the killing of animals or if she just prefers to eat a vegetable-based diet so I don't really have an opinion on whether she's a hypocrite.  Pamela Anderson... well, she's a very public advocate for PETA and she knows that animal testing is done on breast implants... that doesn't make sense to me.   The act of hypocrisy is rooted in judgment of others.  From personal experience, I have to say that it's pretty irritating when someone makes a comment about what I eat while harbouring numerous leather goods in her wardrobe.  Yes, that's happened.

The steps to being a vegan are difficult to implement in the U.S. There are animal products and by-products lurking in so many objects and hobbies. Gardeners can choose whether or not to use blood or bone meal to enrich the soil. Should vegans use compost that contains manure, which may be a by-product of the meat and dairy industries?

I try to cut anything out of my diet for which an animal had to die. But that's tough. There's often rennet in my beloved Parmesan cheese, and refined sugar is often made using bone char. Fish oil and anchovies hide in a lot of stuff. And then there was the pretty pasta at Trader Joe's that contained squid ink. Ewww.

Then there's urea in some hand lotion, mare urine in menopause meds, and a whole range of products tested on animals. I recently switched to a vegan, cruelty-free moisturizer, shampoo, and conditioner, and soap is my next target. But really, it's all too much.

Because as this site ( http://www.veganoutreach.org/guide/qa.html#isrefin... ) points out, even steel and vulcanized rubber use animal fats in their production. So it would be next to impossible to be vegan if you're going to refuse to use anything that has at some point in its creation harmed an animal. And then there's the whole insect question. Can you use ant killer or roach spray if you have an infestation? Could you wage war on bed bugs? (My personal rule: if ants or roaches or mosquitoes come in the house, they're fair game. Spiders get to stay, though my home is more of a spider hospice than a home--not much to sustain them except dust mites.)

Me, I'm having a hard time weaning myself from leather shoes and dress slacks that contain wool. But I like to think of myself less as a hypocrite and more as someone who is a work in progress. Every step I take to eliminate animal suffering from my lifeways contributes to ecological healing and reduces pain and waste.

It's such a complicated topic.

You really found some fabulous quotes to illustrate this post, BTW. Good work!

Leslie

BlogHer Contributing Editor, Research and Academia ( http://www.blogher.com/topic/research-academia-edu... )
My blogs: The Clutter Museum ( http://cluttermuseum.blogspot.com ), Museum Blogging ( http://www.museumblogging.com/ ), and The Multicultural Toybox ( http://www.multiculturaltoybox.com )

Well, I'm a big believer that we all do what we feel we must, and even taking one step is better than taking none. That being said, it's a lot more common for someone to be anti-fur, but not yet vegetarian. The reverse is rather stunning.

It can't be denied, as elisa@blogher.com

My BlogHer profile ( http://www.blogher.com/haystackprofile/viewprofile... ) truly shows you everything I do online...Check it out!!