A Mother Defends 'Child-Free' Havens

great before I had kids, offensive now that I have them!

Oh shit! I see where the disconnect is!!!! I didn't take time to read all that stuff you just wrote, but I did scan enough to see you were confused by my use of Vulgar. Vulgar doesn't mean simply "dirty words" or lewd behavior in a sexual sense or gestures. . . when I used the word "vulgar" here what I really meant was just carrying on in an absurd manner in general. Much like my continued engagement with you on this ridiculous matter. NOW, I'm a hypocrite! Scoot over!

Don't believe I ever said that I believe your post was a slight against me Sharon nor do I take it that way and frankly I wouldn't care if it were. I get that you don't get how posting about vulgar talk with an avatar doing something that many would consider vulgar is sort of ludicrous. You see Sharon, here on facebook you're an " anonymous people in a physical proximity to myself" by virtue of me reading what you've written and seeing your picture right in front of me. I don't actually exist only in a computer, that picture is on my screen right here in front of me no different than if you had come and put it in front of my in any other way. As for " No one forces me to show up here" no one forces you to show up at a restaurant either but by choosing to post publicly you, just like anyone who makes a vulgar comment around you, expose others to your "vulgar" avatar. You could choose to keep that to yourself by not showing up in public places on Facebook but you don't and you expect all of us to be OK with your avatar giving us the finger. Turns out I am ok with it but I'd suggest you should also be OK with someone doing something you consider vulgar or at least be willing to acknowledge your hypocrisy.

" I am not bound to have a day or evening or experience ruined unless I choose to engage." I'd suggest that you're never bound to have a day evening or experience ruined as, if I'm correct, you're in charge of your feelings, your brain, your emotions and your experiences and thus any response to another is a CHOICE you're making.

We are all hypocrites at least occasionally. It's fine and human but becomes somewhat scary when we either can't see our own hypocrisy or won't acknowledge it. Not sure what of those (or something else) is going on here but it's still pretty funny.

God Almighty . . . . let's review. My original post wasn't a slight against YOU Jessica. I never even read the other comments. I didn't FLAME YOU or anyone else. I merely commented on my own personal views based on my own personal experiences with anonymous people in a physical proximity to myself. How in the hell that made me your target is beyond me. There is no disconnect. Facebook isn't a physical human being in front of me interferring with my peace; it is a choice I make to engage with nitwits and dear friends when I don't have the luxury to be in their presence. No one forces me to show up here. As public as it appears, it is virtual in nature even though there are other human beings using it. I am not bound to have a day or evening or experience ruined unless I choose to engage. In short, cyberspace is no substitute for a public arena like a PUBLIC ARENA.

Even though I do have the wit and the quickness to debate you on this very unimportant issue, I do not have the time.

I am all for child free areas .

One of these days I'll understand how people see Facebook as "not public". Last time I checked I didn't know you. I'm not offended by your avatar merely amused at the disconnect from your comments and you public facing avatar.

Glad to oblige Jessica. I don't take Facebook out to dinner with me and force it on others in stark contrast to a more public cyberspace option. No one is forced to endure my appreciation for Johnny Cash whilst paying for a meal and trying to enjoy it. I, however, regularly endure obnoxious, loud, and judgmental critters in places that one wouldn't think I might. My 3 yo has better manners than people that would sit on a cell phone talking loudly during dinner ignoring their companions or incessantly checking God knows what on their Smart Device. Perhaps I might offend them if they ran across me on Facebook and to THAT, I say, Good Show.

Direct correlation to the lack of parenting going on these days. I am all for Child free places...

I think it is a great idea. Not everyone wants to be around other peoples children and some parents might need an adult night out someplace. It gives people options and that is never a bad thing. At some times you may not care if other kids are around and at others you want an adult atmosphere.

It would just be a place you don't take children too. No different than not being allowed to take children to a bar, an adults only vacation resort, etc.

I totally support it! And if some parents are offended by it, then they shouldn't go to the place!! I think that adults need a break away just for themselves every once ina while.The other day I was in a BAR at 7 on a Friday. Apparently we got a little loud, and a lady with a baby complained to the manager. The manager reminded that she was in a bar. She was "offended" by something someone said. I was offended that she had a kid in a bar. Someone should call child protective services on her!!! Honestly though....it's actually not the kids that bother me usually...it's the parents who don't set guidelines for appropriate behavior for their kids!!

Sharon, I find your comments as paired with your avatar beyond amusing.

My initial reaction to this is that some adults are wildly more vulgar in their public actions and behavior and loud voice than kids. . . . perhaps an Idiot Free Zone should be in order instead.

I love the idea of having an adult only place to have a nice dinner without children screaming, or running around. When my children were younger I was well aware of the need to take them to places where they could be kids.... i.e. chuckee cheese, mcdonalds and the like. It was better for the kids as well. They could run around and play and just have fun. As they got older we would venture out to nicer places where they learned the importance of manners and general etiquette. So it's not like families with younger children don't have places to take the lil ones for a family night out.

I hear you and that seems totally reasonable. However a lot of the comments on posts about this subject I've seen have not been as well-measured and can pretty much be summed up as, "stupid breeders!"

I totally agree that while I find my child totally awesome, not everyone will. And for me personally, it seems more like a parenting issue than anything else. I don't take my child to fancy or quiet restaurants, or to the movies, or any other grown up places. And when my kid starts to act like a little sh*t, as kids are wont to do on occasion, we leave wherever we are. Its just common courtesy. But I think that banning children from some places but allowing obnoxious adults to run around unchecked is just trading one evil for another.

dont think its 'bad kids' so much as a lack of proper parenting(always exceptions) that allows a child to misbehave as they do. true lots of obnoxious adults and what can you expect from their children..when you havent been taught. too many parents are clueless and dont care but quickly get highly offended. rude is rude regardless of age.

No one is saying "you're bad" to all kids and hopefully we can all get to a place where our boundaries are in tact enough to know that this isn't personal. When I can't go to a playground because I'm not with a kid does it mean that I'm being told that I'm a child molester? Nope, I don't personalize that. I do think that's a very different idea however since I pay for those parks with my tax funds but then that's a different discussion.

Yes, there are plenty of bad adults but we can discuss their behavior with them. Very few parents appreciate it when you tell their child to stop misbehaving (though I have in retail environments on a regular basis back when I worked in them... oddly the kids tended to listen just fine.)

Jessica, I don't really have a problem with kid-free areas, especially places where they really don't belong anyway (nice restaurants, movies, etc). It just seems a little silly to point the finger at kids specifically and say YOU'RE BAD, when plenty of adults are equally obnoxious. People can be annoying, including but not limited to kids.

I get Jamie's point, but the thing is that you can (theoretically) reason with an adult to ask for a little social etiquette. However, children don't have fully developed filters and a full understanding of their impact on others, and with some parents not taking the initiative to control and educate their little darlings, having some limited adult-only space besides a bar is worth exploring.

true Jamie it is apart of life but when you can control your environment, you do. as Christy says sometimes you dont want to deal with kids....dont like it, dont patronize; simple solution. Ive witnessed folks asking parents numerous times to control their 'off the wall'kids with no attempt/change of behavior and its ridiculous...why even subject folks to this. heard a friend tell another not to ever bring their kids into their home again..not welcome at all. (that says alot about the lack of parenting going on) not everyone loves children(as a parent/gparent childfree is bliss sometimes)....it is what it is!!

It's not no kids but once they put up the signs I think the mothers who allowed their kids to scream endlessly became offended and left since I don't see many kids there anymore. Basically they had to put something up since so many were honestly allowing their kids to run around screaming while they chatted. Obviously there are plenty of mothers out there who aren't like that but some are and this seemed to be a congregation of them.

And Jayme, the good news is that this guy you don't like will likely head to an adult only coffee shop so you won't have to hear him. Just because you're not annoyed by your kid doesn't mean everyone isn't and more importantly just because your kid isn't annoying doesn't mean everyone's kid is so well behaved. I have plenty of friends who could take one of their kids anywhere as a baby and small child but couldn't go anywhere with one of their other kids. They were considerate that not everyone (them included) wants to deal with a screaming child while eating out but MANY aren't. Just like many aren't considerate about talking on cell phones and the like.

Im all for it, as a mom of 3 I could use some kid-free time

What coffee shop in Seattle? Is it just make the brats behave or is it no-kids?

Can we also designate "idiot free" places? Or "I'm too stupid or inconsiderate to understand that dogs don't belong in a restaurant" places? I think if my daughter and I have to listen to the jackhole next to us blather on and on way too loudly on his cell phone about how his coffee is too hot and how hard is it to make good coffee and oh by the way did you hear the new Nickleback song, then he can put up with a few shrieks and giggles from my totally less annoying one year old. Seems only fair.

i support adult only public places (this includes teenagers)...i also support quiet cars and places that ban cellphones usage too...

Jamie, there are plenty of places where those things aren't allowed. Heck there are actual public places (aka publicly funded) where adults without kids aren't allowed I don't see why there can't be private businesses where kids aren't allowed. A local coffee shop here in Seattle had to put up signs because so many moms would come in and let kids run around unsupervised and it was annoying to everyone. That was more of a parenting issue than anything else but still, why not have places that don't allow kids? It's not like there won't be places for kids, just some places that don't have them. Seems like a win for everyone really.

It is absolutely the right of the owner to make these choices. I have 6 children and this does not offend me in the least! If by chance my husband and I were able to get away for a romantic night out, I wouldn't want to watch another person's kid picking their nose while I tried to have a romantic dinner. If people don't like these establishments, they shouldn't support them! Easy peasy!

let me put it this way, i don't care for people talking on their cell phones, wearing short shorts, or republicans– but i don't complain about it. having to deal with things that are sometimes annoying is part of going outside your house.

I like the idea. Sometimes you just don't want to deal with kids.