Pit Bull Bans: Public Safety or Breed Bias?

I have to agree with chris, but these dogs don't scare me - bad dog owner scare and disgust me.

These bans really bother me, but proper tracking of incidents and the relative ratio of Pit Bulls owns, vs attacks should show that it's only a small problem, not directly tied to the breed itself, but to bad owners in general. There should be laws, but not restriction on the breed because, like a lot of us out there, my sweet pit bull is the nicest dog - better than my two chihuahuas and NOT NEARLY as mean. They're all great though : )

There's a cute article on My.Arfie.com about sweet pit bulls - check it out http://my.arfie.com/profiles/blogs/pit-bulls-are-s...

Not a bad site if you like social dog stuff

Sorry, ran out of room:

Dogs Should Not Be Discriminated Against Because They Were Born a Certain Breed...

Dogs, like anyone, have to be educated and trained properly.  (I suppose we can't compare people like this - but it's the same concept.)  Education as to what is acceptable behavior and what is not should be given to the animals, whether pit bull, pomeranian, or chihuahua.

People train their animals to be vicious.  Dogs that are out of control are usually just not educated -- or if they are, then they were educated poorly.  My brother-in-law has 2 pit bulls and 1 pit-mix.  They are very playful and protective of him and his family.  They just drool alot...ick! 

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I work for money - I blog for fun.  I wish it was the other way around...

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I live in Baltimore City, where pitbull ownership is high.

I'm also a vet tech and we see a lot of these animals at the practice where I work.  Some of them are obviously fighting dogs and yes, they are scary.  But the vast majority of them are wonderful, loving, completely safe pets.  And yes, I think TRAINED pitbulls are great dogs to have with kids.  We also see plenty of rottweilers, danes, labs, chows, golden retrievers and dobermans that are plenty scary too.

A coworker of mine used to live in Denver and he said they got around the pitbull ban by categorizing dogs as a "boxer mix."  Even if it was totally a pitbull.

Besides the implications of breed specific implications, I think breed bans are a waste of money and time because they are unenforcable.  People who fight their pitbulls and mistreat them don't take them to the vet for vaccinations and heartworm prevention,  they don't exercise them at the dog parks and they don't walk them down the street on leashes.  So how are people owning illegal pitbulls supposed to be found?  In my city, we have a large enough crime problem that illegal pitbull ownership is really at the bottom of the priority list.

Adventures In City Living http://greatwallsofbaltimore.blogspot.com

I'm curious about the statistics quoted in that KC Dog Blog extract.  Why would dog bites go up after breed specific ban?

Do dog bites go up generally, or do they go up more in areas with breed specific bans?

sass,

Your point about weak laws is interesting - maybe the local governments feel this is the most effective way to address the problem? The fear that people have is real and that is what turns on the creeepy dog owners on in the first place. A viscious cycle. 

~ClizBiz

BlogHer Contributing Editor, Animal Concerns, Proprietor, ClizBiz ( http://www.clizbiz.blogspot.com/ )

BSL Meeting in Boston - From Boston  dog blog.

May 14th, 2007 ·

Today,
a meeting to discuss breed specific legislation including a potential
ban on pit bull and dangerous dog ownership took place in the Gardner
Auditorium at 11:00 a.m. at the State House. I was not able to attend
the meeting but our own Jan Dumas has the following the say and planned
to read it this AM:

Well it looks as if we have quite a few ‘dogs’ in this fight. People
who own pits or pit mixes and love them - fighting - with the people
who fear them and know nothing about them. Dogs are amazing animals,
they among all the other creatures on this planet choose to join with
us, and ask for little in return for all they give us. We treat them
like little people, or worse than nothing, and still if given a chance
they will die for us.

I have a little bit more history with this breed, and this question
than most. I am a member of two local American Pit Bull Terrier fancy
clubs, and I own a Keeshond. The Keeshond was banned in Europe during
the 1700’s and only now is starting to rebound as a breed. Excellent
guard dogs, they also were on the wrong side of a political argument,
and paid the price of having few to stand up for them. I do not wish to
see us make this kind of mistake again.

The American Pit Bull Terrier is at the stage that the Kees once
was, with a small population under attack, for the sins of many other
dogs. Any one who has spent time as I have with a well breed APBT,
attending conformation shows, knows what this dog can be. The big
shovel head, the human eyes, and the sleek athlete’s body a dog breed
to do several jobs. A dog that needs attention, love and a job to do,
not locked in a back room, or other wise mistreated. The people I know
who care about APBT, who breed APBT, do so because they love the breed,
and they wish to see it continue. To look at the dogs I see around me,
the ones who live on chains, are stuck in small rooms, are breed not
because they are the best representative of the breed, but because the
person wants quick money, or a smallish dog with a big bark and a hard
reputation. A person with this kind of dog might call them a Pit Bull,
however, they are not American Pit Bull Terriers. They are some sad,
half mix, that does not deserve their mistreatment.

From the reports I have read, it is not possible to see one ‘breed’
or even one group that bites more than others. We hear more about a
‘Pit Bull’ like dog, or ‘Bully Breed’ dog bighting because is sells
newspapers, and get free publicity for politicians. Suggesting that
people, all people who own dogs need to socialize them, to properly
care for them, no one wants to hear that. Even if it is the answer to
this problem.

We already have laws about dog ownership, all dogs must be
vaccinated against rabies, and all dogs must be licenses. Neither of
those laws is being enforced, except in the few incidences where animal
control stops to bother people allowing their dogs off leash play. I
lost track of the times I was stopped by police officers, and dog
control as I walked my ‘wolf’ asking if he had his shots and was
licensed. My neighbor, whose dog was locked in the basement, was never
asked, for she never allowed her dog out. Which dog was more dangerous
if it was to get loose, the over socialized Kees, or the under
socialized Lab?

Just as the above example (and I have enough to write a book) shows.
The problem is NOT the dog, but the irresponsible owners. We need to
enforce the laws we have about dog care. Remove dogs from people who
will not care for them properly. Mandate neutering and spaying for dogs
that are not listed with a breed registration such as the American Dog
Breeders Association (ADBA) American Kennel Club or other breed
registration group.. Create a training class that all dog owners must
attend in order to get a dog license. Stop back yard breeders who are
little less then puppy mills, turning out dogs with no care to
temperament, confirmation, or breeding. Require all Animal Control
Officers to learn about dogs and dog breeds, and finally stop asking me
if I have a wolf on the end of my lead!

- Jan Dumas

 The ban failed, I take a tiny bit of the credit for that. 

http://fibrowitch.blogspot.com/

Michel,

Your comment made me think about those humans who 'snap' one day and then go on a killing spree. Sometimes, it doesn't take much really. 

I agree that pit bulls are scary and probably the only thing that will change my mind is to become friends with one. Hopefully one that doesn't look menacing. 

And I say, if you're going to have a dog as big as a horse, my gosh, GET A HORSE ALREADY. 

~ClizBiz 

BlogHer Contributing Editor, Animal Concerns, Proprietor, ClizBiz ( http://www.clizbiz.blogspot.com/ )

Dang! First off, I applaud your evident restraint here since you probably know far more about this issue than any of us. 

It's interesting that you make the comparison between pit bulls and black men. My post actually started going off in that direction and I soon realized I was trying to cram too many human racial issues into a post about dogs. 

In the end, I am scared of pit bulls but am not convinced that banning them is the answer. 

Girl, need to write your own post on this for BlogHer. Would love to hear more on this analogy. 

~ClizBiz 

BlogHer Contributing Editor, Animal Concerns, Proprietor, ClizBiz ( http://www.clizbiz.blogspot.com/ )

But considering how woefully bad most animal cruelty laws are I suspect the laws they'd use to prosecute the owners of violent dogs are just as bad if not worse. It maybe the local law enforcement's best legal way to deal with the problem.

I probably would not personally own a pit-bull type dog. And I probably would not be too comfortable watching one around children or having one next door because of the statistic that you cited in your post "in more than two-thirds of the cases included in the study, the life-threatening or fatal attack was apparently the first known dangerous behavior by the animal in question." That's scary to me.

Oh who are we joking, I'm way more of a cat person anyway.

Sassymonkey ( http://sassymonkey.ca/ ) and Sassymonkey Reads ( http://sassymonkeyreads.ca/ ).

I have the fear of dogs, so Pit bulls definately do give me a fear as I see them. Why? Just have always had that fear. My uncle had a dog that would run around and bark and do all sorts of crazy things. When I was young, it jumped on me and knocked my walkman out. Wasn't a pitbull, just one of the bigger dogs. Those can bite just as much as pitbulls so not sure if this really takes away peoples fears of dogs. Mine will still be there. In reality my friend has a dog the size of a horse. Friendly dog that drools alot. But if that dog snapped, it would be game over for somebody. Banning one breed is a tough decision either way.

Michel

Domains at Retail ( http://www.domainsatretail.com )

I won't let this comment be too long because this is a passion of mine, one that i've fought against for almost 6 years now, and I could go on for hours about it. The way I feel about BSL can be summed up just by saying that pit bulls are the new black man. 

- Maria

http://immoralmatriarch.com

Christine,

I'm glad you brought up Dobies and Rotts. Our family took in a Doberman in my teens. He was a former show dog who had been in a car accident and his back leg no longer appeared perfect so his owner abandoned him. Baron was the sweetest animal and remains my favorite dog I've ever known. When I took him walking, however, people would cross the street to avoid him. He was fiercely loyal and while he never attacked anyone - he made it VERY clear when he did not like you. Baron made me get rid of a few loser boyfriends, bless his heart. 

So yes, these 'fighting' dogs are capable of so much love and that is what makes this a sticky issue. Add the mixed breed in and we've got an ongoing problem. 

I guess when enough coutnries, towns and cities ban the breed, it will die out? Or perhaps they and their owners will only live in certain areas? Weird to think about. Reminds me of Japanese internment camps during WWII. 

~ClizBiz

BlogHer Contributing Editor, Animal Concerns, Proprietor, ClizBiz ( http://www.clizbiz.blogspot.com/ )

Hey Laurie, 

Thanks for the comments and also, your previous coverage on this issue. Glad to hear you say that you cannot 100% completely trust a dog - even your beloved own dog - to be unsupervised around kids.I commend you for being aware of your pup's bloodline and watching him carefully.

Not sure if this issue will ever be fully resolved as long as pits, rots and other large breeds are bred for fighting and aggressive behavior. The man/beast relationship will continue but let's hope, with more awareness. 

Also, just FYI, a chihuahua bite hurts too. 

~ClizBiz

BlogHer Contributing Editor, Animal Concerns, Proprietor, ClizBiz ( http://www.clizbiz.blogspot.com/ )

Lizzie,

As a friend, the mother of twin toddlers, said to me yesterday: "I would never have a dog while having young children. ANY kind of dog."

While I know plenty of people that have no problem with this, I think the more that dog owners know about breed characteristics and aggression triggers, the safer it is going to be for all. 

Again, agree that targeting one breed does not solve or even address the bigger issue - too many irresponsible owners who have not done their homework. 

~ClizBiz

BlogHer Contributing Editor, Animal Concerns, Proprietor, ClizBiz ( http://www.clizbiz.blogspot.com/ )

P.S. Love your blog! I've added to my list of 'Adoption Resources.' 

Chris,

Yes, that's the point I keep coming back to - than any animal can be dangerous, not just one specific breed. Your experience at the kennel sounds interesting. Mad hamsters? Dang. Now, I have a new fear. 

~ClizBiz

BlogHer Contributing Editor, Animal Concerns, Proprietor, ClizBiz ( http://www.clizbiz.blogspot.com/ )

Fiercely loyal, smart like you can't believe, very strong willed. Unfortunately, people get them and have no idea how to train such a strong, smart, willful dog.  Just like Dobermans and Rottweilers in past decades, they're very misunderstood.  That being said, the majority of people who get pitbulls for the wrong reasons aren't going to be interested in education on training.  Sometimes I see no choice but to ban the breed.  It's a terrible shame, I admit - but you can't help but acknowledge the danger of irresponsible pet owners and therefore, the danger that their dogs pose to the rest of us.  The caveat here is that people get around it by calling their dog "mixed breed". So, I guess I don't know what the answer is.  Tough subject. Sad that people can be so cruel and stupid.  They really are a beautiful breed. 

Christine
It's My World.  Welcome To It.
Blog: http://www.colormepink.com
Homeschool Blog: http://web.mac.com/colormepink/
Jewelry Blog: http://www.starbrightjewels.com/blog

No joke - a pug/beagle mix. You just never know.

ANY DOG, any being - can attack, and particularly in the case of a child or defenseless individual, can kill.

A recent shelter I visited told me that 80 percent of their population at any given time was Pits and Rottweilers. These are badass animals, and are heartbreakingly often mishandled and trained to attack and fight. I wrote a bunch about the Michael Vick case on here when it broke -
these dogs are unfortunatley some of the most mistreated "domestic"
animals in the world. They are bred and used as weapons.

At the same time, my uncle has a pit bull who has been so spoiled since he was a puppy that he will - and does - sit on my lap. I love him - but I don't allow myself to trust him. His head and jaw is massive, and I believe he has it in him to kill if he needed to. I'm still well able to be around him, but it's not an unconditional relationship for sure. I don't know what could trigger it and I keep an eye on how people act in the house. Should he be banned though? I can't say that.

Then again, I had a Boston Terrier, the love of my life, the goofiest needy dog. He weighed 22 pounds. But when kids came over I watched very carefully, particularly when faces went near his or they nagged at him, because I just never knew. He never bit, but Bostons were bred as fighters in cheapo dog fights in Boston more than 100 years ago, and I knew that that was still somewhere in his bloodline. 

We cannot truly reason with dogs, no matter how much we communicate with them. I'm with Lindsay at the Pit Bull Blog - as much as I think pit bulls get a bad rap, I say that the potential for danger should be acknowledged. It's documented in lots of unprovoked attacks and should be considered by anyone deciding what kind of breed to have or whether or not to expose their child to them.

But again, my friend's kid was attacked badly enough by a PUGGLE to need stitches in the ER. And while I'm still going to feel a lot more secure sitting next to a Chihuahua than a pit, life is very random, and in dealing with dogs, like with anything else, it requires good judgment and a healthy amount of caution. 

just my take....tough subject, one of the toughest in the world of dogs and domesticated animals, - good links! Laurie 

I am not in favor of breed bans, because in most cases an agressive dog is the fault of the owner - either not being careful enough, like in the case of the Pomeranian, or deliberately encouraging aggression.

People often throw out the argument that pit bulls were bred to be agressive and are therefore just ticking time bombs on four legs, but the truth is that they were bred to be agressive to other dogs and not to humans - a pit bull that turned around and bit its owner after a dog fight would not last very long in that world.  Human-agression and animal-agression are two different things in dogs, though it is true that sometimes babies and young children will do things that trigger the predator instinct in a dog (of any breed), such as high-pitched squealing or running away. 

I think there should be more education available and possibly required before people become dog owners, so that these tragic situations don't happen, but targeting one breed will not do anything to address the problem.

I blog about creating a life worth living at:  inventingmylife.blogspot.com ( http://www.inventingmylife.blogspot.com/ )

I have to admit Pit Bulls are a bit scary for me, thanks to the media. However, banning breeds? Seems pointless unless you ban every pet out there. I have been bitten and attacked by mad cats and hampsters. Not to mention I worked at a kennel and a vast many varity of dogs were kind and fun loving including but not limited to, doverman, pit bulls and rots. The breed that was over and over high strung was that little Pomeranian you mentioned above. 

Chris - Mind Vomit ( http://mindvomit.co.nr ) see what I am spewing now!

It seems to me that it's like the old phrase: guns don't kill people, people do. I would agree with you that it seems the people are responsible for the animals the care for and I imagine that you could turn just about any animal mean if you wanted to. We once had a hamster that was mean as hell. And we had a cat that had been abandoned and was very moody at first but now is a puffball because we was loved back to healthy. Some day, we'll get out of this darn rentahouse and be able to get the doggie my toddler and hubby want and I our one quaility we'll look for is a safe dog, any dog, for all of us.