Is Public Education Socialism or Why Should I Pay For Your Child?
by Gena HaskettI double checked my copy of the Constitution from the ACLU and my copy from the Cato Institute. Education is not mentioned. There is no constitutional reason for the federal government to provide education to anybody. It is not in the Amendments either.
Now if you want to get fiddly with it you might make the case that in the preamble that "promote the general welfare" might mean that education is implied but I know how some of you feel about the word "welfare." It is right up their with socialism.
The Case for Not Educating Children With Public Funds
- Families have traditionally taught and homeschooled their children in faith, reading and work skills. Many families depend on their child’s labor to support the family. The intrusion of the state takes away parental authority.
- Businesses would suffer having to pay higher wages for older workers.
- It is sinful to allow idle hands when there is gainful employment to be had.
- Providing education becomes a never ending financial drain on citizens, city and state budgets. It is unfair taxation and unconstitutional.
- Poor children, those in foster care and orphans could become productive members of the society without government support. Sure there were crimes, abuses and fraud but on the whole it works; why change?
- Everyone agrees, education is a noble and worthwhile goal but why not leave it to the charities – this isn’t a concern of a capitalist society.
Unfortunately I am not making this up. These were the historical reasons given by parents, business leaders and political pontificators at various stages in American history about not providing education to children. There were fights about classical versus practical education. There were compromises on education and child labor. There were riots about a secular Protestant education and a new wave of Irish Catholic immigrants who were not about to step foot in such a school. Is government supported education the right thing to do?
What Is Socialism?
It has been used as an invective, a pejorative and something that no breathing American would seem to tolerate. When I hear a word being used with such frequency I look up the original meaning and bring myself forward.
In one of my dictionaries it is defined as:
State ownership of all or most of the means of production and distribution with control over aspects of social welfare and planning.
Another definition is:
The view that the government should own and control major industries using the dollars earned to provide benefits to citizens.
Now it does strike me funny that very few people have gone over to actual socialists to find out how they define themselves. That is what I did. I visited World Socialism.org and read what they had to say. You can read their definition for yourself.
So When The Government Provides Public Education It is A Socialist Act?
If the city, state or federal government uses taxes to provide educational services that replicate private industry practices and then distributes those services to the population then a case could be made that that is a socialist act.
On the other hand, it could be said that providing education to children is an act of capitalism when citizens invest in the supply of functional, capable future workers who will continue to support the goals of the government and provide businesses and the population with a stability, self-sufficiency population who contribute to the tax base.
A literate population monitors and participates in the governance of the country. Educated people have a voices that can’t be taken away by surface intimidation.
Did Socialism via Public Schools Destroyed Private Education?
No. When there were no schools there were no alternatives to schools if you were not wealthy. It was either work or apprentice to learn a trade. This meant a population that was incapable of adjusting to new situations or environments. They were vulnerable to being ripped off, exploited by certain members of the business class and inviting mental stagnation which often led to trouble.
Private schools for the affluent members of the society continue to exists. Faith based schools continue to exist.
There have always been for-profit schools that provided value added instruction. Trade schools are in demand as students look for ways to quickly gain skills to enter the workforce and as a means of continuing their education.
Schools are a reflection of the society. When Brown vs. Board of Education became law many southern parents (and a whole bunch of northern parents too) pulled their children out of public schools and started “Whites-only academies.” When public education failed to provide equal services some African-Americans set up their own schools.
The options increased, not decreased. That is one of the strengths we have is to see beyond the visible and imagine a new way to do things. That has nothing to do with socialism or capitalism. It has to do with imagination, not the fear of staying on the same dead grind.
Why Should I Pay For Your Child’s Education?
I’ll be the first to say public education is not perfect but the alternative of having huge chunks of the population being non-literate is a security issue. The constitution does say “provide for the common defense.” I need to know I’m not surrounded by bone stupid people. So in that sense, yes there is a constitutional reason to fund education.
Education is a reflection of the needs of the citizens, the business community and the government. We all have a stake in what we believe and know for a fact; that we are joint members of this society.
It is a civic duty to insure that all of us, regardless of age, have the opportunity to develop, learn and prosper however you choose to define it. It is our civic duty to make sure that the children who come later have the ability to do the same. We are not isolated beings that just happen to live in the United States.
Individuals, yes. We are so much more than political polarities. We are connected to each other. I’m waiting on that kid that will find a way to take old tires and transform it into something life affirming and non-toxic. Yes, I proudly want my tax dollars to contribute to the education of any child, teen or adult.
A Little Mind Nurturing for Time Challenged People Paid for by Taxes, Donations or Listener Contributions:
- Hold This Thought – a one minute audio and podcast on literature culture and history from KSKA public radio.
- The Loh Down on Science with Sandra Tsing Loh who is a CalTech grade and a gifted writer/performer.
- The Writers Almanac – what happened this day in literary history and Garrison Keeler reading a poem.
Gena Haskett is a Contributing Editor at BlogHer, and writes at Out On The Stoop and PCC LibTech
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Comments
wow interesting
Such an interesting post. I find the idea of schools being " when citizens invest in the supply of functional, capable future workers"kind of chilling. But that is because of my own history. In my country we had "bantu education" that was all about educating workers too.
And I know that is not how you meant that.
I like what you say in your last paragraph - "We are connected to each other. I’m waiting on that kid that will find
a way to take old tires and transform it into something life affirming
and non-toxic. "
That makes total sense to me.
By the way, you have a typo. "prayed upon by certain members of the business class" paints a interesting picture, but you probably meant "preyed upon" :P
Well some of them did pray and preyed upon
children.
I changed the word to exploited because I'm expecting a good dose of hell as it is. Folks is mighty touchy about the word "socialism".
Part of how cities in the U.S. and I suspect around the world compete for companies to build in their cities is the quality of the workforce. If there are other businesses, a strong school system and a literate population then there is a pool of specific talents and skills levels.
Because of the shift from manual to technological labor and because of the Internet that workforce pool has been expanded to countries like th India and English speaking countries. The Pink Collar job export was devastating.
Anyway - no, not talking about automaton kind of training, I mean a full blast well rounded education.
Thank you for reading my post.
Gena - Out On The Stoop
I hope I’m not rude by
I hope I’m not rude by thinking that this article is really saying that if “public schools” are good shouldn’t “public health” be good to?
Great example of how the country is DEPENDENT on public schools as a way of life. I depend on public education so I can work to purchase bigger house and bigger car (not food). I could afford to stay at home but why, its (somewhat) “free”. I personally like my public school so not disagreeing with the public school system!! But do we totally want to be dependent on government for our health. “Private schools” are only for the elite! If had to pay for “education”, I would quit job and home school. It has transformed the American lifestyle to a dual working family - by our choice to get more stuff.
Cost per child per year (read on line in TN) ~$1760. Kids are not going to get dumber and exponentially increase the cost of an education ;-) Health care cost MUCH more and could get out of control as Americans live longer and get fatter – LOL. I'm glad to pay my $2000 per year for public education but not willing to pay for health care at an undisclosed amount. If we become "dependent" on a unsustainable program, we will all be uninsursed.
Don’t agree with your definition of socialism – that we the people own it all – yeah???? http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism Webster’s dictionary states, “GOVERNMENT CONTROLL”.
Great post!
As a former teacher's union president and member of the NEA Board of directors, I was well-practiced in answering the question of why the government should be in the education business. It's really quite simple (and you have answered it very well.) We all benefit when every member of society receives the best possible education. Of course it's up to parents to decide what "best possible" means for each individual child, but in most cases, the public schools can provide a better education than an individual parent teaching at home.
Kalyn Denny
Kalyn's Kitchen
I'm Trying to Respect All Persuations
There are parents who are excellent home school teachers. And there are some that stink. Same with the schools and school districts.
It was fascinating to read how there is a history of piling a lot of responsibilities on a teacher's duty list but the unwillingness to compensate or recognize the importance of the career.
Benjamin Franklin did not have a easy time trying to set up his school. It was easier to create a library and the post office than was for him to get folks to agree on necessary curriculum. If he couldn't do it you have to wonder how we got as far as we did.
History is good stuff.
Gena - Out On The Stoop
Interesting discussion
I like this post! I liken public education to public roads, libraries, postal service, and other institutions that help build the infrastructure of a community. Without education, we do not "build up" citizens and the community will fall apart. Just like traveling from one place to another is much more difficult without roads, building a community with an illiterate and uneducated populace is difficult.
I have found the issue with public education and "socialism" really comes into play when you start discussing the social services schools are required to provide. That is where people feel education becomes a socialist entity because it encroaches up moral issues of feeding and nurturing children. It is no longer about the three R's.
With Respect - Feeding A Child Is A Moral
Issue and I'll Pay
If the parents cannot or will not feed their children I have no problem seeing my tax dollars go to a school breakfast or lunch provided.
Children cannot learn if they are hungry. The social services aspect as you call it was invoked because children were coming to school hungry, without medical treatment for vision, perception or dental problems or because there were dangerous situations at home.
Now yes, you might say "so sad, too bad but not my problem."
We can't. We tried that in the early part of the 20th century. It didn't work so well.
Do I want parents to take full financial responsibility for their children? Yes, of course.
Do I want the government to take up the slack for each and everything thing a citizen does or might do to themselves? No.
But I do understand that the 3Rs are not the 3Rs anymore.
These children will live in a dramatically different world. We need to step it up to prepare them. Memorization doesn't cut it. Critical thinking, adaptability and creating solutions from new situations will.
If part of that deal is to feed a child before math class then let's get to it. If that means encouraging and helping a child through hard times so be it.
Gena - Out On The Stoop
I agree with you that children need to be fed
And I am not opposed to the programs that have been set in place. I think they are very important. I'm simply sharing what I have observed.
Teachers are now required to do so much more. Report child abuse, drug abuse, depression or suicidal tendencies, etc. And not on a voluntary level but on the -lose-your-job-if-you-don't-do it level.
Counseling groups, drug rehab programs, etc. are all being done through the school. After school programs to keep kids out of trouble because families are not taking care of it.
I'm not questioning the value of these programs. I'm simply pointing out that they go beyond the scope of education but are required by schools to provide.
But the people do pay for
But the people do pay for kids education, just not on a national level - on a state level, with the Federal government, through the legislative process, providing assistance to the states and schools in an effort to supplement, not supplant the school is needier areas.
However what this has left us with is a country where, depending on where you live, and the level of state interest, budgetary restrictions and face it corruption at the state level, you may have access to a great public education or a less than acceptable one.
Statistically, though there are exceptions, the areas with the well performing schools are in areas where there is little socioeconomic strife and the worse performing schools are in areas where the socioeconomic situation is shakier. Some state standards are poor.
There is no excuse for this in the United States.
SEMANTIC not withstanding we are already behind the rest of the world education wise, except for the elite few the legacies we will end up with a dynatic system and the don't will me most of the population. Nationalize the system and give us a chance or leave it where it is and our grandchildren will be travaling to China to get their medical treatment in the future.
Let Me Add That Opportunists Are Everywhere
And if there was a true shake down and audit at many major city school districts you could shake loose a bundle of cash or mis-allocated money.
You find money going to consultants, you'd find computers that were supposed to go to schools sitting in storage and all kinds of stuff.
You think getting health care is hard work? Try floating the idea of nationalizing American schools. A discussion for another time perhaps.
I also know that there are great and wonderful teachers that truly teach and inspire. A teacher saved my life and few of them gave me hope.
So school districts, boards of education and various state secretaries of education. Sigh, I don't have much faith in them. They blow according to the winds of change, often some political gas bag.
But they are required to run schools. In schools you have teachers. That is where the juice really is and the magic can happen.
Gena - Out On The Stoop
Education AND Healthcare are interchangeable
Very well thought out and articulate. We practice in many other socialistic practices in this country that we turn a blind-eye too. In my opinion, its all about having a good balance. Morality should be thrown into that equation as well.
Teacher Library
Teacher Library http://www.teacherlibrary.blogspot.com
I was for the idea of networking schools... so that education is more equal and resorces more available...
I Could Go Along With A Concept Like That
Not all school are the same but there may be a way to help support the common expenses or work out costs by a shared block of schools buying materials.
Interesting...
Gena - Out On The Stoop
Investing in children is
Investing in children is investing in our country... There are some countries who don't invest in children's education... and they are starving and have very little opportunities. You have to be smart to wire a house for electricity or plumbing... In other words... do you enjoy your easy acess to refridgerators, microwaves, and stoves (when they break you call an educated person to fix them right)? Or do you take them for granted? With out educating others now you as a person might loose simple everyday privalliages. I like not having to go in an out house everyday... thank god for smart kids.
Academic and Vocational Education Are
Essential
Both types of education are needed and both skill sets need to be respected.
Public schools practically gave this one back to the for-profit schools that charge $5,000+ for a very basic vocational education. The in-demand vocational skill set is $10,000 or more.
Community College/Junior College can deliver similar training for much less but you have to say on top of what the business world needs. That can be expensive.
In California and other states, that investment is probably on hold unless they can work out a shared training agreement with private industry.
Gena - Out On The Stoop
Such an important post!
Thanks, Gena. I strongly support public education. Strongly. I grew up in a poor neighborhood with a determined mother (and extended family). The public schools and public libraries educated me. I loved reading and learning and was able to do so even though most of the schools I attended were substandard in elementary school. I finally graduated from a public high school that was, at the time, in a mroe affluent suburban community. In my first public city high school, I was place in the academic track because of my scores on the "track test" we all took in 8th grade that determined what our course of study would be in high school.
Long story short, I shudder when people want to privitize the school. Compulsory, free public education is part of what has made the US the land of opportunity and distinguished it from many other places. While we must continue to work to make the public schools better, we must never give up on them. It is the right of all our children to receive an education!
Like you, I vote to use my tax dollars for good. The more educated, healthy and well-fed people we have the better it is for our society.
http://blog.candelarisilva.com
Good and plenty!
Cost per child per year
Cost per child per year (read on line) ~$1760 year x 7.5 million = $151,000,000,000 (1.5 billion). And I personally pay ~$2000 per year on property tax. Kids are not going to get dumber and exponentially increase the cost of an education ;-)
Health care cost 1,000,000,000,000 (1 trillion) divided 200,000,000 = $5000 per person or $20,000 per family of 4! This could cost each pr more and could get out of control as Americans live longer and get fatter – LOL.
Our country is dependent on public eaducation (me too and like it), but public healht insurance cost to much and don't want to Americans dependent on unsustainable plan.
Thanks for Your Comment - So Much To Say
About This
I would like to know the source of the figure for the cost per child. Because $1,760 seems kind of low to me. Not disputing your figures, but I would like to know the source.
I really don't want to divert into a health care discussion at this point. Having said that here goes:
Seniors already have socialized medicine provided for them. Medicare. It is already an unsustainable plan.
We have hard working adults with and without children who have no resources when it comes to health care. None. People tough it out until folks can't tough it out anymore and then the go to the ER. If it is an accessible public facility they receive treatment. That treatment cost $$$$. You and I pay for that treatment no matter what. That is unsustainable.
When a person gets in a car accident in many major cities you are taken to a public hospital or the nearest private ER. If you are unconscious they don't wait to ask if you have insurance. You are treated. If you do have insurance fine and if you don't the government picks up the tab.
This is not sustainable.
Now you and I would agree that there is serious concern about how are we going to pay for this. I really do have that concern.
You and I might agree that there may be unexplored options and pathways that are equitable for all stakeholders.
But the cost providing health to Americans is already out of control. We need to deal with this.
Education can help. ;-)
Gena - Out On The Stoop
I agree with the post above
I can easily see someone trying to turn this argument about education into an argument for why the government should be in control of the healthcare system. But I agree with the above post. Just because you can ideologically substantiate an idea does not mean that it will be practical to implement. Look at what a nightmare public education has become in Pennsylvania. Property taxes have become so high that the elderly and others who own homes without mortgages can no longer afford to stay in their homes. Education becomes more and more expensive every year, leading to larger and larger budget deficits, while our students test scores are not improving. More money does not always equal better education. So while one may be able to make a strong moral or ideological argument for "healthcare for all", it is not practical for a government already so heavily in debt to foot the bill.
I Am A Survivor of Pennsylvania Public
Education
I truly understand and respect what you are saying about some school districts. One of my first posts for BlogHer was about how bad my elementary school education experience was and how I just barely made it out of the pits.
God bless public libraries!
I understand the concerns about a governmental option. I've already slip over my own line in my response to a prior comment. I put it to you that if the private marketplace had affordable options we would not be in this situation. They did not, do not and have no inclination to create any.
It has been too long. How long must we wait?
Property taxes funding for services are going to have to be re-evaluated. Because even if were looking at money for schools there is a built-in inequity depending on where you live.
If there are no businesses, employment options or home owners then you can't provide the same level of educational services to that population. What kind of infrastructure do we need to support the former industrial cities and rural areas?
The children still need to be educated. That is non-negotiable.
So part of what needs to be worked out is the question what is fair for an American lifestyle that is honorable to all? What will we collectively (forgive my choice of word) are willing to give up and what we well all support?
Where is the money coming from? You either share resources better, cut services fairly across the board or you find the money.
You are right, more money does not equal better education. But less money assures a crummy education. I stand in living testament to that fact.
How do we move forward? We find the ideas that can become reality.
Gena - Out On The Stoop
healthcare
Kinda wish you would have more blatantly applied this argument to healthcare. But, then i've never been one for subtle.
I too worry about home schooled kids being bone stupid. (I know many of them arn't . . .but I question some.)
Tracee Sioux
The Girl Revolution
It Has Been A Long While Since I've Been
Called Subtle
I read a educational post from a Puritanical blogger. Yes, there are still people of the Puritan faith and yes, they blog.
It was...different. Not subtle. They did home school.
It was Class-A trippy. I don't think that they get out much. I might have misread but they are very disgusted of the contemporary world and the non-people like them occupants.
Compared to that blogger I'm a shy, bashful woman.
Thanks for reading.
Gena - Out On The Stoop
You don't worry...
about public school kids being bone-stupid? Really?
What a hurtful way to say such a thing. How many bone-stupid homeschool kids do you know? How many have you ever met?
We could talk about drop out rates, and seniors in high school graduating without knowing how to read, or work simple math problems without a calculator.
We could talk about homeschooled kids scoring consistently high on the state tests that they're required to take yearly in many states.
But I'm not going to derail this FANTASTIC thread because I've been (hopefully) unintentionally offended.
I DID want to post about a conversation on this topic that I had just this week. A man whose children are now grown and in the work force was complaining about how he still has to pay for the town's school system. He was getting pretty heated up, in that way that people do when they think you are "just like them" and agree with them. So I asked him if he liked having doctors, and nurses, and police offers that know how to read. If he was happy that our fireman can find an address on a map. How comfortable he would feel if our military was full of men and women with no education.
It scares me to pieces to think about there not being public education in this country (not a reality I see anywhere in the near future, but still) because very very quickly the only people who would be fit to be in politics would be people educated in a private market. The newspapers would sway public opinion daily, like Hearst did with public opinions about minorities. We would go back to following our doctors orders w/o question. And who would be around to advocate for us? Only the people waiting to prey on us further.
That being said, I will be homeschooling both of my children this year. My daughter's been in our local public school since day one. While it hasn't been perfect, we have been supplementing her education at home. But this year on our state tests, the 6th grade class had only a 17% pass rate for math, and 24% pass rate for reading. There is no way that I can't do a better job at home. This is the state standardized test, and the standards are not overly high to "pass." We'll be homeschooling her this year, because their 6th grade teacher, and the school will just be "fitting in" the new 6th graders with the 7th and 8th grades, with no real plan. This is due to budget cuts.
I can't stand to see a wasted year, so much good can happen in a year, and we've seen how valuable a year is to our children, during previous school budget problems.
I'm pretty sure we'll come out of this year better, not bone-stupid. All I have to do is teach my daughter more than 17% of the 6th grade math curriculum, and I'm set. :|
Gena, this was a fantastic post, I'm sorry I got derailed by the comments.
~Eryn
Remember, not all homeschoolers are what you see in your head. We're secular homeschoolers with our eye on the prize - college-educated adults that are viable in the work force, and have the tools to make change. Look up the new trends in homeschooling, you might be surprised at what we're seeing nationally.
Language Trips Me Up Again
I'll take responsibility for the words that I type. Could I have put it in a more diplomatic way? Oh God yes. Upon reflection, should I have not type those words?
Well, I would have typed it anyway. I don't want to be a hypocrite. But I will try to be more thoughtful about making those kind of statements and word combination in the future.
Did I mean to offend home school parents? No. I really didn't. Honest I didn't.
But not each and every child that is home schooled is going to be gifted. Just like not each and every kid that goes to a poor school is going to be a dropout.
Let me try again. I have issues with how we educate children, teens and adults. I have issues with trying to impose 18th century education techniques on 21st century kids. Rote tests and fill in the blank education serves no one in this day and age.
I absolutely support your decision to educate your child. You will not find me as a defender of poor public schools. I will defend the good and great teachers that are slugging it out in the heart of the beast. I will also defend those that don't want their kids near the beast.
That doesn't mean that I don't have questions about homescoolers. I do.
I'll try to do better. Thank you for your comment.
Gena - Out On The Stoop
It wasn't you
Gena, I did not take any offense from your post. You said that you have concerns about the people around you being bone-stupid, in a post about why you feel the state/federal government should fund public education. I also believe that if we had no public schools, many of the people around us WOULD be bone-stupid. I see the level of parental involvement at some schools, and I know that you are correct, and have little faith that left to their own devices, we would be right back to where we once were, your lot in life looked exactly like your parents'. Daddy was a coal miner? Here's your hard hat.
My reaction was to how one (I know, just one!) person took your post, or at least all that she chose to post about. That is why I replied in-line to her comment, not to your general post. I was so excited to join the general discussion that you have going! This really is a well-written, spot on post.
Gena, I can tell that you took great pains to say what you wanted to say, and not have people infer what they might WANT you to say.
I am a nurse, and carefully kept my beliefs on what's going in health care right now out of this, because I could go on all day! But you came up with a smart, balanced way to hit the people yelling and screaming in "town hall meetings" all over America right in the knee. We can not yell louder than they do, and shouldn't try, dismantling their rally cry is even better. I wish I had thought of it myself.
But like advocating for my patients and health care reform, I feel that I am responsible for advocating for homeschooling now, too. I trust you did not think I meant that ALL public schools pump out full classes of non-readers, or fail to graduate a majority of their students. Obviously that is not the case. Oh, online communication, so fraught with pit holes, you can never predict how a person will read your words.
I'm still volunteering at our public school this year, even though I don't have children attending, because I want strong readers in my community, darn it! Without parental involvement, our schools will not get better. We all have a vested interest in having the next generation properly educated. They'll be running our nursing homes, after all! ;)
Also (I know, shut up
Also (I know, shut up already!), I too have questions about some homeschooling techniques. But for me generally, this is a parenting method problem that I'm reacting to. I don't personally have a problem with my kids hanging out with people from all walks of life, but that's me.
I value it, in fact. Last week we were in Seattle while my daughter attended space camp, after dinner one night, a homeless man of a race different from the ones that make up our family stopped us, to ask for change. My 7yo son is very out-going, and wanted to chat his ear off. I let him. We were in a safe place with lots of people around us, and it's important to me that the children learn that people who are in different places in life than us are still people, and still worthy of our respect.
Socialization comes in all forms. The world might be scary, but it's not going away. Social skills are just as necessary as math skills.
It strikes fear into my heart to think of the government making too many laws about what parenting techniques people can employ. It seems like such a slippery slope. For example, there is a debate going on about whether or not it should be considered abuse/neglect if a child is obese. The issue is not crystal clear. Someone might think me making my kids do chores before they get on the Wii is abuse! They sure do!
Found the source
http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=66
SO SORRY, I found the above quoted amount on a TN governement website, and I may have read wrong. Attached is good chart (little older from 2006-2007 year but good chart). Today cost per child may be closer to $10,000 x 7.5 million = 75 billion. That's only 7% of the health care reform. And some suggeste it is double that amount but that would still be 14%. I'm really trying to do the math wright. Calculator doesn't go up that high ;-)
View chart: It cost $393 dallors per child in 1961 (or $2670 in 2006/2007 dallors). In 2006/2007 cost per child was $9391 or an increase of 350%. If Health care reform is ran the same way, it could may cost 3,500,000,000,000,000 per year in 40 years. I also read it will cost 35 billion per year on 1 trillion interest. Public school cost 75 billion. The INTEREST (waste) on healthcare is half of the funding for public schools (value). Now remember they are pulling funds out of 1 white house budget. Will public schools suffer to pay for public health???
Read the Chart - It May be Higher Than
Stated
They stopped recording the admistrative costs in 1981. There is pork in the invisible numbers.
Tell you what. There are legitamite questions about costs. Let me do some snooping and next week I'll try to find reliable verifiable information so that we are not talking in the vapors.
Part of having a discussion is looking for primary resources to evaluate a topic.
Let me get busy on that. I think it would help.
Gena - Out On The Stoop
Impacts?
As an individual in grad school, acquiring debt to increase my knowledge and "up" my earning potential, this is my concern: If we continue to progressively tax those who earn more, then what will be the incentive to achieve "The American Dream"?
The plan is to pay, in part, for universal/public healthcare by substantially increasing the tax percentage for those in higher earning brackets. The trickle-down effect is that it will no longer be worthwhile for individuals to pursue advanced degrees in fields with a higher earning potential, because they will virtually make the same amount (post-taxes) as they would in a lower tax bracket.
Also, what will the effect be on doctors and healthcare professionals if the government chooses to "standardize" wages like they do for public school teachers? What doctor would stay in practice if they are going to earn less for doing the same job? What will happen if doctors decide to strike unless they get paid more like the teacher's unions do?
I agree that the government plays a role in reforming healthcare. But I do no believe that this should be done through a public option. Instead, barriers that prohibit insurance companies from competing across state lines should be removed. This will increase competition and lower prices for the consumer. Also, premiums for low-risk individuals, such as young people, should be lowered so that these low-risk individuals can join the risk pool, thus lowering premiums for everyone. Many options exist that would help the current system without creating a universal, government-run program.
Let's Keep This In the Realm of Education for
Just A Bit
The path to becoming a "professional" doctor, lawyer, teacher is way more expensive than it has ever been. The private colleges and universities charge a huge amount of money for using their staff, facilities and network of associations that will improve your opportunities for success.
In addition, those same private colleges and universities are tapping into federal money to provide educational financial assistance to help doctors and teachers, for example, to attend schools. They also tap into the graduate base as well.
If you choose to go to a private college or university there is a cost. You know the cost up front and plan according. You either attend, attend part time or you don't go.
I don't know where you live but in California there is the University of California system and the California State University system. The funding comes from the state and the citizens of California.
You know the cost, you have access to assistance if you need it but you have a better shot at getting your degree w/o being 35 years in debt.
There is public education system because there is a need for higher education that should not depend soley upon your ability to destitute yourself to get a degree. There is a recognition that cost should not be the sole determination to access to education.
I assure you there are private colleges and universities functioning in California. Yes, the state system and every other governmental program in California is getting hammered and trimmed. Yet we still have public college and university graduates.
We as Californians have serious decisions to make. But for now the public education option services the citizens of California.
Insurance Open Across State Line?!
I'm going to get in trouble again but let me be blunt. I don't give a rat's ass about the insurance industry. They will be fine.
I don't think for one second that providing open access will do anything but help them lock down treatment options more than they already do.
And why isn't anybody bring up the blankety-blank HMOs that have done equal damage to true health care access and doctor/patient relationships?
My conception of health care has to do with providing medical treatment options; not with protecting an industry that a contributing factor to the problems we are facing today.
You know, I might have to write a post health care. I have a lot to say. ;-)
Gena - Out On The Stoop