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Questioning Gender

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Before we dig into the latest gender news, be sure to read Rita's post, Transgendered Children. It's important that you hear that story before you dig into the story of Pop, the child being raised without gender.

Pop’s parents, both 24, made a decision when their baby was born to keep Pop’s sex a secret. Aside from a select few – those who have changed the child’s diaper – nobody knows Pop’s gender; if anyone enquires, Pop’s parents simply say they don’t disclose this information.

Stop and think about that for a minute and compare this child to the one Rita blogged about.

We have one child who was born with genitalia that do not match her gender and another child being raised to ignore gender.

A long time ago, way back in the late 90s, I entered into a long debate with friends about the benefits or risks of raising children in a gender neutral world. My argument was that raising a child to deny gender is just as bad as raising a child in the wrong gender.

Look at this comment on Reddit, in response to a link to the story about Pop. Someone whose parents tried to keep her from female stereotyping.

Bad experiment though. At some certain point when I got old enough, I started to feel like a total outcast. I couldn't fully identify with girls, and I also couldn't fully identify with boys. When I started going through puberty, things got way worse. I developed pretty early, and got really depressed. All I wanted to do was chop off my boobs because I couldn't figure out how to look good in clothes with them. I was highly discouraged from looking at girl's magazines or books, and since I had no close friends, my knowledge of how to deal with my gender was extremely limited. I always felt awkward around other people because I couldn't relate to anyone. At some point in high school, I tried really hard to make friends, and did for a while, but then after I graduated, everyone moved away to different colleges and other places, and for some reason, all the effort that I put into trying to make friends in college were unsuccessful. I ended up cutting myself off from everyone, and eventually settled into being alone because it was easier. Now I'm 27. I have pretty much no friends except a few that I had in high school, but none of them live nearby. I have a very hard time relating to, and feeling comfortable around anyone that I meet. My life is basically a mess.

Now go back and read the story about Pop again.

...the parents were quoted saying their decision was rooted in the feminist philosophy that gender is a social construction.

Is it really? If it is, then do those of us who believe transgendered people are born with the wrong genitalia for their gender need to re-evaluate our positions? Should transgendered people simply be re-conditioned? Do they just need therapy?

Emerging Women asks...

...how do you think we can model healthy conceptions of gender to children? Is avoiding gender so as to avoid negative preconceptions valid? Is it possible to teach healthy perspectives in a world full of unhealthy examples?

I believe that society does stereotype people, based on gender and I'm firmly in favor of eliminating gender stereotypes.

-Stop buying pink and blue. Stop dressing infants in boy clothes and girl clothes.
-Stop talking about protecting little girls from potential boyfriends while encouraging little boys to be mini-Lotharios.
-Stop making assumptions about what little girls like and little boys like and let them develop their own interests.

Lisa Takeuchi Cullen says...

As a parent, I too object to the color coding of infants. When Kana was a newborn, we received a layette containing a pink headband whose sole purpose was to notify strangers this bald infant was a girl. Kana is still bald, so strangers still frequently mistake her for a boy, and they always look mortified when my older kid corrects them. Why? Who gives a hoot?

In my opinion, denying your child the right to his or her gender, is not a solution.

Which leads me to the story of Caster Semenya.

Her father and grandmother say she's a woman.

Semenya's father, Jacob Semenya, pleaded: "I wish they would leave my daughter alone."

"She is my little girl. I raised her and

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Denise 9 pts moderator

I clicked and I'm reading. :-)

~Denise
BlogHer Community Manager

Flamingo House Happenings ( http://www.flamingohouse.net/ )

HeatherK 5 pts

I've been thinking about this post all week and the one's you linked to.

Here is my response on my own blog. ( http://heatherk.typepad.com/photography/2009/09/th... )

laurie 5 pts

and no clear answers as to why. Lots of shades of grey here and personally, I think it's really interesting to be able to "think out loud" in this space as to our own experiences.

Laurie

www.notjustaboutcancer.blogspot.com ( http://www.notjustaboutcancer.blogspot.com )

LucindaA 5 pts

Of course a boy could be as I describe my daughter and a girl could be as I describe my son.  I was pulling on parts of their personality to make a point about gender differences but it is not their whole being.  My daughter also loves to play with light sabers.  My son will play Polly Pockets.

I still stand by the fact that boys and girls have innate differences.  My son and daughter both asked for dolls at the same time.  We gave them each the exact same baby doll.  My daughter wrapped hers up in a blanket and made a sweet little bed for it.  She cuddled it close.  My son let his sleep in the back of his dump truck and made it "fly" like Superman.  He was just as nurturing but in his own way.  It was really fun to watch.

My husband is very nurturing to our children but parents completely differently than I do.  He approaches it differently not just because he is a different personality but also because he is a guy.  The other day he was teaching my son the proper way to throw a punch so my son wouldn't hurt his hand.  Something that would never occur to me.  I'm not saying it would never occur to ANY woman to teach her child that, but it didn't occur to me or most of my female mom friends.

So I don't mind the questions at all.  I am merely reporting what I have observered.  I don't think making generalizations is a bad thing.  It's how we process the vast amount of information we encounter.  I think it's wrong to deny that process.  However, we must also take care to not turn those generalizations into hard and fast truths. 

LucindaA 5 pts

Obviously I'm not trying to be hurtful when I describe women as relational.  In general, women tend to be more relational than men.  That is, of course, a broad sweeping generalization that can't be applied to all women.  I assumed that was understood.  I hear women tend to like shopping too but I don't.  However, I don't take offense or feel I'm less of a woman/person because I don't like it.  It seems to me that your situation is unique, and I'm sorry for people who are foolish enough to imply that a woman cannot have Asperger's. 

Wilma Ham 5 pts

This so gets to me. Live and let live , please!
But no, it seems like we must treat people like this, always, push the round pegs into square holes. Why?
You see it everywhere, although it is very clear with gender issues. But don't we do it to every person who somehow doesn't fit the norm, whatever the norm is?
It just so gets to me and the unecessary suffering it causes. What is it to me if somebody has a penis and feels like a female. Why not look at how they behave rather than look at their genitals first before deciding who they are?????
Should I ask every female to lift up their skirt before I interact with them????

It is like looking at somebody's bank account before deciding to associate with them or not? Gheezz, but somehow sometimes people do, don't they.

It just shows me that we humans can be crazy and inhumane and I have no idea what to do about it other than to be vey mindful myself about my own prejudices that might be invisible to me.

Wilma Ham

www.wilmasblog.com ( http://www.wilmasblog.com/ )

saridout 5 pts

I'd say you were absolutely right, and that denying a child any gender can be just as damaging as forcing a transgender child to conform to their birth sex. But I don't think that's what Pop's parents are doing. It's one thing to tell a self-aware child that they are genderless, and quite another to protect that child from stereotypes by not telling OTHERS about the child's gender. I didn't get the impression from that article that the parents are keeping Pop's gender a secret from Pop theirself: "As for Pop, they say they will only reveal the child's sex when Pop thinks it's time."

So what's the problem here?

no_I_am_zoe 5 pts

I dont' understand how this wasn't handled privately and behind the scenes before she ever reached this level in her athletic career.  I mean for heaven sakes, we test high school athletes for drugs here in the US to make sure no one has an "unfair" advantage.  This can't be the first time in her life that someone has noticed that she is masculine.  Can it?  What ever the case, this is not how it shoud be handled.

It is a tough thing though.  When we have compititions that are gender exclusive, where do we draw the line?  Is it based on genotype, or phenotype, or levels of hormones in the body. 

Part of the problem as I see it, is that there is no room variation of gender expression in our societal notion of what is male and what is female; which is highly masculine and highly feminine.  

no_I_am_zoe 5 pts

I saw a documentary on Bruce/Brenda too.  I watch so many documentaries and investigave science and news shows that I can't recall the title, but I saw it too.  It was a truly heartbreaking story.  What anguish Bruce lived in.  Unimaginable.

laurie 5 pts

I agree with you Denise, in that LucindaA's description of her daughter could also be applied verbatim to my 11 year old son.

I think that nature plays more of a role in determination of personality than my 20 year old self would have admitted but I also think that the question of nature versus nurture is one that is impossible to untangle.

Far more important, from my perspective, is that kids get the message that who they are is OK and that they are allowed to figure out where they fit on the gender spectrum (and to move around the spectrum as they need to do).

Laurie

www.notjustaboutcancer.blogspot.com ( http://www.notjustaboutcancer.blogspot.com )

Nordette Adams 6 pts

I feel like  I've seen a documentary or something on the Burce/Brenda story. Horrible. Just horrible. 

Nordette Adams ( http://www.bookotopia.com ) is a BlogHer CE ( http://www.blogher.com/haystackprofile/viewprofile... ) & you can find her other stuff through Her 411 ( http://her411.com ).

Rita Arens 7 pts

You're probably right, Denise. She probably likes pink because the "girl section" of Target is pink. And I don't like having anything force-fed to me by marketers, either, but I understand that it happens so frequently it's almost impossible to tell if you like something because you like it or because the advertising planted the seed in your head that it was cool. Do I like leather couches? Or have I been told they are the "cool" thing? Do I like Toyotas? I have I been told over and over they have good resale value. Do I like the color blue? Or do I only like it because I equate it with oceans, which I then equate with freedom because good vacationing marketing never shows oceans as places where ships wreck and storms rage, only beaches and umbrellas and flip-flops. Some of the poorest people in the world live on the beach, but I don't think of that when I see oceans.

And, also, I wonder sometimes if she likes dresses because of the tactile yumminess of the fabric or because she wants to wallow around in everything she equates with girldom. Or does she like them because she sees me wearing skirts and heels to work and wants to be like her mommy? And why do I like wearing skirts and heels to work? I like it because they make me feel pretty, because I like the way heels make my calves look. And I'm sure we could go into all the ways that is so totally PATRIARCHY.

I think my opinion about gender is that both it and our tolerance for gender-related things are on a continuum. What bothers you might not bother me. I feel firmly entrenched in my femininity, but I also display aggressive and direct personality quirks that are typically associated with masculinity at times, particularly professionally. It's an interesting discussion, and I'm glad we're having it here.

As for that athlete -- I wish everyone would stop picking on her. It's shameful the way they're publicly discussing something so personal and private. My heart goes out to her. It's one thing to discuss gender at a high level, but it's another thing to pick one individual out and hold her under a spotlight and basically demand to see her privates. How humiliating. 

Rita Arens writes at Surrender Dorothy ( http://surrenderdorothy.typepad.com ) and BlogHer and is the editor of Sleep is for the Weak ( http://tinyurl.com/9pg62e ).

pookielocks 5 pts

exactly. many of my friends are either gay or lesbian, but they do not believe they are in the wrong body, gender-wise. it makes me angry when ignorant people suggest such things denise.

www.shebecameabutterfly.net ( http://www.shebecameabutterfly.net/ ) and www.msmodern.com ( http://www.msmodern.com/ ) and www.taking-back-control.com ( http://www.taking-back-control.com )

pookielocks 5 pts

"New rules permit transsexual ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transsexual ) athletes to compete in the Olympics after having completed sex reassignment surgery ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_reassignment_surg... ), being legally recognized as a member of the target sex, and having undergone two years of hormonal therapy (unless they changed gender before puberty)."

www.shebecameabutterfly.net ( http://www.shebecameabutterfly.net/ ) and www.msmodern.com ( http://www.msmodern.com/ ) and www.taking-back-control.com ( http://www.taking-back-control.com )

EKSwitaj 5 pts

I wasn't under the impression that Pop's parents were going to make an effort to repress anything that could be classed as gender expression. Did I miss something? Because if I'm correct on this point, this isn't so much an attempt to "force complete rejection of gender" as to keep the biological sex of the child secret so that others will not encourage a specific form of gender expression.

Also, I wonder if you realize how extremely hurtful defining female as "relational" is to some of us. I'm an Aspie and a woman, though I hear often enough (whether joking or in earnest) that I can't really be both. I don't do most interpersonal relationships very well you see.

Elizabeth Kate Switaj www.elizabethkateswitaj.net

mashadutoit 5 pts

I don't think that's possible unless you let your kid grow up in a bubble.

Totally agree.  I'm sure the parents have the child's best interest at heart, but we've seen that go so badly wrong before as mentioned in this thread.  Its a tough situation. 

About Caster - I agree again.  I feel very protective of her and I'm angry at the officials who could have avoided this public mess.  I'm not convinced that this was caused by racism.  There have been many cases of female athletes who are suspected of being men, many of them white.  Caster does look very masculine.  In normal life, this should not be an issue.  But in sports, I can understand that it is, since there is a formal seperation of men and women in competition.  

While I think its horrible that she should have to undergo such tests,  she is in the public eye in the sport world, so it might have been better to undergo the tests privately ahead of time.  That way she would be ready to react to acusations with the truth, whatever that turns out to be.

I'm being lazy now since I should look up a source for this, but I've heard that teh IAAF allows people who have had sex change's to compete in their chosen gender category under some conditions.  Like - a certain amount of time should have passed since the treatment and so on.  Does anyone know if its true?  Sounds pretty progressive to me.

Denise 9 pts moderator

I see Pop's parents as attempting to do something good but going about it all wrong.

By providing Pop (who I suspect is a girl, by the way) with all sorts of clothing and toy choices and not using gender pronouns, they want to allow Pop to choose gender. But what they really want is to allow Pop to build a personality without societal influences about gender. I don't think that's possible unless you let your kid grow up in a bubble.

Pop is not stupid and Pop will see marketing to boys and girls and she will see what the people around her do and wear and how they act. She will then figure out what she is, or who she is, and begin to make gendered choices based on the marketing and the people she sees in the world around here. Or, she'll be like the person in that comment I quoted and be all muddled up.

RE: Caster... That's a good addition to this thread. I saw something that indicated her gender was questioned before but it was on a site that I didn't trust, so I didn't include it. I'm trying to take a wait and see attitude and not point any fingers or make any judgments. The only thing I know for sure is that this person, Caster Semenya, is going to have a rough road ahead. And I'm sorry for that.

~Denise
BlogHer Community Manager

Flamingo House Happenings ( http://www.flamingohouse.net/ )

Denise 9 pts moderator

All of those things you describe, about your children, are those really gender things? Because what would you say if I told you that I have daughters who made shooters before they knew what guns were? Or that my son would rather play with stuffed animals and write stories and color than he would build anything.

What if I have a son who is a nurturer? Does that mean he is not male?

I agree that gender is biological, but I don't necessarily agree that the characteristics you describe are specifically gender related. I think they are personality related.

~Denise
BlogHer Community Manager

Flamingo House Happenings ( http://www.flamingohouse.net/ )

Denise 9 pts moderator

Ah yes m'am. I understand that feeling.

~Denise
BlogHer Community Manager

Flamingo House Happenings ( http://www.flamingohouse.net/ )

Denise 9 pts moderator

A fine example of why gays and lesbians can't just have gender reassignment surgery and become "straight". It is not usually just a matter of the genitalia we are given. It's an identity issue.

~Denise
BlogHer Community Manager

Flamingo House Happenings ( http://www.flamingohouse.net/ )

Denise 9 pts moderator

It's far too complicated for me to wrap my head around.

Should we do away with gendered sports entirely and say may the best, fastest, strongest etc... win? Does that give men an advantage?

Should we instead of an A league and a B league? Or something else altogether. I do not know. I really don't. I just find it incredibly sad, particularly if she is a) a woman and has been questioned this way b) born intersexed and has to deal with this c) is transgendered and is put through these tests.

Heartbreaking, on a personal level.

~Denise
BlogHer Community Manager

Flamingo House Happenings ( http://www.flamingohouse.net/ )

Denise 9 pts moderator

I don't want to ban either color from anyone's world. I would like to ban the use of those colors in marketing to children, in children's clothing and toys prior to an age when a child can choose the color of those clothing and toys for themselves. And I'd like to find a way to prevent parents from choosing those colors specifically for their children, based on their pre-conceived notions of what a girl is and what a boy is.

Which leads to the question, how much of your daughter's preferences stem from the marketing messages she received prior to toddler-hood? prior to entering school last week (sniff, sniff)?

We say our children are choosing these things for themselves, and I believe that. But are they choosing because society has already conditioned them to make those particular choices?

~Denise
BlogHer Community Manager

Flamingo House Happenings ( http://www.flamingohouse.net/ )

mashadutoit 5 pts

About the Pops thing - it is such an unscientific way of going about
things, its just sad. There is no way to raise a child free of gender
influences, and harmful to try.

I dont know why we have such a need to prove the nature/nurture thing
either way. Its clear that both are involved, and we need to deal with
both. We need to learn to value what is feminine and what is masculine
without limiting what it is to be a man or a woman.

About Caster Semenya: I am so proud of her, and so embarrassed by our officials. I cannot say it as well as this commentor who posted here ( http://www.thetimes.co.za/News/Article.aspx?id=105... ):

I'm a Black South African who teach sex determination and meiosis
at university level. I live abroad .... to brush off other racist
attacks. While I'm proud that a Black person from a rural place in SA
achieved this, I also really feel for Semenya.

It must be hugely embarrassing and upsetting. She has been let
down by her own people, as simple as that. I'll explain.
All sorts of things can go wrong during meiosis. Turner syndrom,
Klinefelter syndrome are just 2 examples of such cases. In one of my
texbooks, there is a picture of a person, very much feminine, long
hair, fully developed boobs, but with XY chromosomes.

It is a travesty of justice that we have a political elite, all AA
appointees, who are so dumb and uninformed that is it becoming scary,
and outbursts like this from Chuene were expected. These people have
never bothered to prepare themselves emotionally and intellectually for
their tasks, and it's a shame.

The very first time rumours about Sememya's gender came out in the
athletics world, steps should have been taken. Her place of study, the
Univ of Pretoria, as always, failed in their duties. All these issues
could have been laid to rest years ago if the matter was dealt with in
a dignified and respectful way WITHIN the country.

UP has many medical experts. Maybe UP was part of the scam to
humiliate the country. In the 80's, Yvette De Klerk and Johan Kriek
definitely received better support for their athletics career at UP.

The real world outside the borders of SA is ruthless, pragmatic
and couldn't give 2 hoots about a "rainbow nation arising from the
ashes of apartheid". People don't care where you come from. The way our
Black elite behave is shameful, and smacks of the deep immaturity and
insecurity.

We're simply becoming the laughing stock of the world by behaving
in this manner.
South Africa is a melting pot where everything except melting is
happening. So, I say, grow up, before the world passes you by. Because
if you don't, you have only the race card to pull out in your own
little insecure lives.

LucindaA 5 pts

Seldom do I have such a strong reaction to things I read on BlogHer.  But to say gender is a social construct drives me crazy!!!!  It is biological.  There are clear physical differences between men and women that allow them to do different things.  Men have more upper body strength, women can bear children.  These things do define us and that's not wrong. 

I have a boy and a girl.  I have tried to raise them to be who they are without defining what they can and can't do based on gender.  But some of this is simply ingrained in their genetic make-up.  My boy makes car noises and has since he was an infant.  He was making "shooters" long before he knew what a gun was.  His expressions of love are just as likely to involve a punch as a hug.  It's who he is.  Needing to be part of a great battle, to be the hero.

My daughter is much more verbal and has always been that way.  She will build with her brother but would much rather play with stuffed animals and create a story.  She asks questions about relationships, values time with extended family, asks questions about my history and her dad's, and tries to determine where she fits in all of this.  It's who she is.  Nurturing, relational.

They themselves ask questions about what it means to be a boy or a girl because they are searching for a way to define themselves, to relate to the world and decide what that means for them personally.   To deny that process is insane and cruel in my opinion.

I agree that gender stereotypes can be damaging but they develop from a grain of truth--men and women are different and relate to the world differently.  It's biological and cannot be denied.  Questions of gender arrive from biological anomolies and our job is to be sensitive, not accusatory, when these anomolies come up.  To help people understand and process these anomolies.  But to force complete rejection of gender is just as wrong.

Houseonahill 5 pts

I really enjoyed your take on this Denise.

I personally have been angry for the past few days because I feel that IAAF should ban their practices all together. They should deal with "cheaters" on as need basis.

Caster Semenya's case is horrible, in my opinion, because the controversy was not initial.

She has been a "female" up until this point with no dispute from others who have known her and have been her life. It is dispicable and racist and xenophobic.

The horror this young woman is facing is torture.

I appreciate your post because it intorduces many perspectives to educate me when all I feel right now is rage at the machine! Thanks for your views. 

Houseonahillorg

www.Houseonahillorg.blogspot.com ( http://www.houseonahillorg.blogspot.com/ )

www.HealthierHappierHouseonahill.org ( http://houseonahillorg.blogspot.com/ )

pookielocks 5 pts

there's also the story of identical twin boys Bruce & Brian Reimer. Bruce's penis was destroyed during his circumcision. John Money, a psychologist, convinced his parents to raise him as Brenda instead of Bruce. Bruce/Brenda never identified as female & was eventually told at age 14 that he was born a boy. He transitioned back into a male and went by David. It's a horrible case. What that psychologist did to those boys was monsterous. He would make them lie naked in sexual positions simulating sex to "convert" Brenda/Bruce to be a female. Money went to his grave saying the experiment was a success.

Brian Reimer overdosed at age 36 due to the stress of finding out he had an identical twin all along + the shame that was caused by Money during their 14 years of study. It's not clear whether it was intentional or accidental. It is clear that he turned to drugs to deal with the situation.

Bruce/Brenda/David committed suicide at age 38.

Both men are dead. Successful experiment? You be the judge.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brenda_Reimer

www.shebecameabutterfly.net ( http://www.shebecameabutterfly.net/ ) and www.msmodern.com ( http://www.msmodern.com/ ) and www.taking-back-control.com ( http://www.taking-back-control.com )

pookielocks 5 pts

I wrote one the other day: http://www.blogher.com/biological-gender-questione...

18-year-old Caster Semenya of South Africa, won the Women’s 800 Meter in the World Championships by a long shot over other female contenders. Not only did she win, she set a world record of 1 minute, 55.45 seconds, beating current world champion, Janeth Jepkosgei, by 2.45 seconds. (USA Today) ( http://www.usatoday.com/sports/olympics/2009-08-19... )

Photograph: Thomas Lohnes/AFP/Getty Images 

Semenya’s win has stirred up controversy in the world of Track & Field. Her masculine features and deep voice combined with her otherworldly speed at the championships have started a gender debate, with athletes and coaches from several countries questioning her true biological gender. 

This begs the question of whether it’s acceptable to single out one athlete to test her gender. Shouldn’t all athletes be tested prior to championships of this magnitude? Is it morally wrong to say that because an athlete looks and performs like a male, she should be gender-tested?

Mandatory gender testing ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_verification_i... ) of female athletes was instated in 1966. The International Association of Athletics Federations ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Associa... ) ceased gender screening for all athletes in 1992, but retains the option of assessing the gender of a participant should suspicions arise. They are currently invoking this rule in Semanya’s case.

Semenya’s coach is not worried about the test results. “We understand that people will ask questions because she looks like a man. It's a natural reaction and it's only human to be curious.” (Maholo ( http://www.mahalo.com/caster-semenya ))

The International Association of Athletics Federations (IAAF) is under heat as well. They should have verified her gender quietly, before allowing her to compete. Now the entire world is abuzz with questions of gender identity, leaving Semenya in an unfavorable worldwide scrutiny.

This is not the first time the world has questioned the biological gender of a purported female athlete. Perhaps the most famous case of gender-bender suspicion in sports is that of sisters, Tamara ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamara_Press ) and Irina ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irina_Press ) Press in the 1960s. The sisters were Olympic and National Track & Field stars for the Soviet Union. Tamara won three track-and-field Olympic gold medals and set 12 world records while Irina won a gold medal in the 80-metre hurdles. They became the first sisters to win gold medals at the same Olympics (Rome, 1960). During their reign, however, they were universally called “The Press Brothers” due to their manly faces, figures, and masculine record-breaking skills. Curiously, they dropped out of public competition when gender-testing first became instituted in 1966.

Keystone/Hulton Archive/Getty Images

Tamara Press accepting her Gold Medal in the 1964 Olympic Games

In 1996, 8 Female Olympians (Atlanta Games) were found to have Y chromosomes, however 7 of them were okayed to compete due to being diganosed with Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgen_insensitivit... ) (AIS). People with AIS have a Y chromosome but develop all the physical characteristics of a woman except for internal female sex organs. The result is a genetic defect wherein the body does not produce testosterone. Since testosterone helps build muscle and strength, a person with AIS competing as a female athlete would have no competitive advantage over 'normal" females. (India Times ( http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/The-sad-story-o... ))

More recently, Indian ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India ) middle-distance runner Santhi Soundarajan ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santhi_Soundarajan ) who won the silver medal in 800 m ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/800_metres ) at the 2006 Asian Games ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Asian_Games ) in Doha ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doha ), Qatar ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatar ) failed the sex determination test and was stripped of her medal. Sadly, Soundarajan attempted suicide in 2007 amid the controversy over her gender. It is unknown whether she suffers from AIS, as the Olympic Council of Asia continues to practice mandatory gender testing. (India Times ( http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/The-sad-story-o... ))

www.shebecameabutterfly.net ( http://www.shebecameabutterfly.net/ ) and www.msmodern.com ( http://www.msmodern.com/ ) and www.taking-back-control.com ( http://www.taking-back-control.com )

Flightkeeper 5 pts

Especially in the sports world because a lot of the records are categorized by gender.  If Caster has too many male characteristics, that automatically defines female and male, but who is making the decision and why?  How would you balance the decision in regards to fairness between Caster and the rest of the women.  And what about race?  Are there some races that have a higher intersex percentage, then what? Should those definitions be limited to sports?  A lot of questions are going to be arise.

As for Caster, I'm glad she is getting a lot of support from her community, she's going to need it.

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Rita Arens 7 pts

I'll go out on a limb here and say I think there's nothing wrong with pink or blue as long as the child who wears them prefers them (left to his or her own devices). I know I birthed a girl-child who hasn't let me dress her in pale yellows and greens (which look very nice with her complexion) since she was about two. She likes the sparkles and soft fabrics of "girl clothes," the more flounce, the better. I don't have a problem with that in and of itself, just as I don't think it's bad if boys gravitate to things with wheels.

What's problematic to me is when we define boys' toys as inherently violent or girls' toys as inherently inferior, just because they are used more by boys or girls. Toys are toys, period. I think we have to stop attaching so much meaning to what our children play with. Two children will play with the exact same toy in different ways. Pink isn't necessarily bad unless we as a culture equate it with a little princess with no brain or athletic abilities or insist that a little girl wear it because she is a girl, not because dude, she totally likes pink. It needs to be fine for a boy to prefer dolls without people questioning his masculinity. It needs to be fine for a girl to prefer cars and trucks and things that zoom while still taking ballet lessons. I hear people clucking to themselves all the time about "boy things" and "girl things" and I wish we had something better to talk about, but I don't think removing gender is the answer. There's nothing wrong with gender -- but there needs to be nothing wrong with either gender. We as a society have to stop equating the female gender with weakness and hysteria -- we haven't gotten there yet. The last time I checked, "take off your skirt" was still a valid insult for a teenaged boy. 

Rita Arens writes at Surrender Dorothy ( http://surrenderdorothy.typepad.com ) and BlogHer and is the editor of Sleep is for the Weak ( http://tinyurl.com/9pg62e ).