Quo Vadis, Israel?

I'm not an expert on matters of the Middle East. I make an effort to read the newspapers and watch the news, but most of the information I discover usually pertains to the war in Iraq and our American troops.

About a month ago, BlogHer's Kim Pearson and I had a brief chat discussion about Middle Eastern history and I was surprised (and somewhat embarrassed) with how little I knew about the territory and it's many crises and religious conflicts.

Comments

I've folded the towels, put

By: ByJane Posted: 2 weeks 2 days ago

I've folded the towels, put the dishes in the dishwasher, and pulled some weeds in the garden. It hasn't helped, Dana, I'm still furious at your post. I appreciate that you are trying to remedy your lack of education on the topic, but one book, no matter the author, can not give you or anyone sufficient background on ANY topic that is even mildly controversial to be taken seriously. I would think that as a BlogHer CE you would feel some sense of responsibility to research your topic before you wrote the post.

I was at a meeting of the Jewish Community Resource Center in Sacramento the other day and one of the board members talked about a project she is working on to get high school textbooks revised so that they don't portray a one-sided view of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. I thought perhaps this group was somewhat alarmist, but judging from what you say you learned about the Middle East in school, I'd say they're not. And that's scary, because given that you're an intelligent, educated woman who means well, what can we expect from those people who don't have your background?

Like Pam, I am in a lather about this, and I hope you will do some serious research and then a followup to this post.

By Jane

http://byjane.blogspot.com

Jane, I apologize, when I

By: Dana J. Tuszke Posted: 2 weeks 2 days ago

Jane, I apologize, when I was referred to this book and read it, I didn't see it the way every one else has and will. Nennhaus' writing seemed as though he was being consiencious to the horrible ways that Jews have been treated. Obviously I have been duped. I sincerely, from the bottom of my heart apologize. Never in a million years did I intend to hurt anyone with this post, nor did I imagine this could happen.

By all means, I will definitely dig deeper into other books and resources and follow-up with better findings.

The author had a style of writing that blinded me. I feel absolutely terrible. Terrible.

Hi Dana

By: Jill Posted: 2 weeks 2 days ago

Nennhaus is very clever with his approach and only because of my legal education can I tell you, it's a switch and bait. Attorneys who litigate use it all the time. They don't say anything that isn't true, but they do overdramatize so that then, when they suggest what it is that they really want, it seems like such a logical, plausible suggestion.

We are all susceptible to this - esp. when we only get our news from one source. Which is why so many of us blog and read blogs - we know that there are news gatekeepers who don't have the broad focus we should get in order to decide for ourselves.

The emphasis should be on collecting and reviewing enough different view points so that then when you select one that seems to resonate, you can better understand why it does - but still might not work.

Clean slate - who doesn't like the idea of a clean slate when it comes to a variety of circumstances in our personal lives? Seems SO appealing, right?

But that is not what we do with indigent people. And relying on past wrongs just won't cut it. These issues make the problem of Israel and the Palestinians complex but not solvable by ethnic cleansing - because we say as humans that such a solution is unacceptable.

Anyway - I need more coffee!

Jill
Writes Like She Talks

Thanks Jill. I understand

Thanks Jill. I understand where you are coming from. I don't read news from one source and I don't only read one blog, I searched for other bloggers who had read this book and found only praise for the author's work. This seemed one sided and this is why I wanted to read it and ask others for their thoughts.

Like you say, bait and switch. And I fell for it, perhaps because I don't have the background that others do.

Generations of whom?

By: voiceofreason36 Posted: 1 week 6 days ago

And generations of Palestinians "have been born and died on the soil there. Generations have built homes, fallen in love, had babies, seen the world" before Churchill saw this as a solution as to where to put the disenfranchised Jews after WWII. Why could not the Jews then have been granted a homeland in a sparsely populated area in Africa, where conflict would have been less likely to happen?

I haven't read Nennhaus, nor claim to disagree or agree with his ideas. I, however, do not think our treatment of the conflict is sane (or has ever been).

yep, on all points

By: washwords Posted: 5 days 18 hours ago

wow. while dana you seem like an intelligent, intellectually curious (young? I'm guessing) woman and I commend you for that, which is why I'm (and apparently lots of others here) are even more disturbed that you took this as a "fact-based book" that gave you "an understanding of the Jewish people."

I am quite sincere as a Jewish youngish woman myself that I do appreciate you admitting your ignorance in this area and desire to learn, but you could spend a lifetime on this and still not understand it all, some have!)

I basically agree completely with everything Nerd's Eye said above and I have a feeling (since you're top viewed post on blogher) you're hearing a lot of critiques and "helpful" suggestions, so I'll keep it brief and simply say, please please please read more from left /right/americans/israelis etc etc. etc.

And do keep asking questions and bringing this up so we can all discuss. I certainly don't claim to be an expert myself. Like you, Im embarrassed at how little I know, really, perhaps doubly so because I AM jewish.

But I do know suggesting we gosh-golly just move somewhere else is hurtful and upsetting, not unlike the feeling i got in the pit of my stomach from some youths from a church group with "sharon=hitler" signs they couldn't possibly have understood.

I also know that the basic question you asked in catechism class is at the root of this all and deserves, but doesn't yet have a better answer. Why do they hate each other? Because. We all have a LOT of studying/writing / learning/listening to do before we can hope to come close to understanding.

thanks for thinking about this and taking the heat I suspect you are!

washy

http://washwords.wordpress.com

washwords.dc@gmail.com

Pam, thank you for your

Pam, thank you for your comment, I never looked at it that way. Again my naivity prevents me from really "getting it" so to speak.

In the book, Nennhaus stated the many times the Jewish people have moved time and again, and the many times they've been pushed out of their homes.

Do you have any ideas on how peace can be achieved?

This subject is so complex to me, I definitely need to learn more. Any references you can point me toward?

Not Hope or Peace

By: Laracolvin Posted: 2 weeks 2 days ago

Without having read Nennhaus, I can respond only by saying that moving an entire country, the history and connections included, in order to find peace is the least hopeful idea I've ever heard. Diplomacy, dialogue, COMPROMISE, and hard work seem to me to be more optimistic and realistic paths to peace.

Regarding books, though, has anyone read any of the following? They are on my reading list, and I'd love to hear some feedback.

Avi Shlaim. Iron
Wall: Israel and the Arab World (2000)

Fouzi El-Asmar, To
Be an Arab in Israel.(1978)

Roane Carey & Jonathan Shainin (editors). The Other Israel:
Voices Of Refusal and Dissent (2002)

Notions of Identity

Lara, thank you for the

Lara, thank you for the titles. I haven't read these, but I think all three would offer different perspectives. I'm definitely going to check these out.

My first instinct said that moving a nation is impossible, yet the way Nennhaus presented it, it seemed like it could work. I'm glad that Pam gave me some other angles to think about, however.

More resources

Dana - if you look at this link, Jill and Kim Pearson left comments on my post from last week, and there are a couple of resources that may lead to other angles and research.

-Lara

Thank you, Lara! I

Thank you, Lara! I appreciate the link and help.

I cannot believe what I just read

By: animzmirot Posted: 2 weeks 2 days ago

Like Pam and ByJane I am FURIOUS about what I just read. I cannot believe that someone who is being paid to write political fare on this site would write something so ignorant and so inflammatory without any research whatsoever. To suggest that the Jewish people, the people that FOUNDED Israel over 5000 years ago, be relocated, is an idea only secondary to Hilter's extermination of the Jews. Dana, do you have any idea of how insulting your post was? Do you even know the slightest bit about the history of the Jews, why there has been persecution against the Jewish people since time began? There are reasons why. But to suggest that Jews be moved to some other area is beyond hateful.

You want a reference? How about the Old Testament. You know, the story of the Exodus, when Moses led the Israelites into the promised land? Just where do you think that promised land was? In Australia? South America? It was ISRAEL. And who were the first people to settle there? The Israelites, now known as the Jews.

The foundation of Islam didn't even happen until thousands of years later. Now you tell me why the Jews should be moved to accomodate people that came way after them?

Perhaps you don't understand that two people, the Jews and then the Arabs, honor the same biblical tale of Abraham's sacrificing of his son (the reason both religions circumcise to this day). And that this happened on the Temple Mount, in Jerusalem, home of both the Temple and the Dome of the Rock. The rock being where Abraham actually spoke to God. But this biblical tale was a Jewish story later adopted by the Muslims. But what you seem not to get is that the Muslims have always kept the Jews (and everone else) out of their holy spot, taking over the most holy of Jewish sites, the Kotel (Western wall) of the Temple, until the war in 1968, when it was liberated.

I feel you owe an apology to the Jewish people, to the Jewish bloggers that read this site, and I also suggest that anyone feeling that they can make suggestions about moving an entire race of 12 MILLION people someplace else ought to think twice about posting it. Because that is racism, plain and simple. And it's horrible that I had to read this on BlogHer.

Again, I realize I have made

Again, I realize I have made a terrible mistake in reading this book. It was not my intention to cause any harm. I would never proclaim to know anything about this. My first instinct was that moving a nation was impossible, ridiculous, but I was trying to understand the reasoning. I have failed.

I am truly, truly sorry.

well wait a minute...

I was angry too. very angry. see above. But Dana seems very contrite and quite sincere in her desire to learn more. Before we castigate her, let's try to learn and improve. If someone as clearly well-intentioned and intelligent as Dana can be "duped" in this way, how are the many with less education, resources, and fabulous blogger friends, supposed to find their way?

Dana, your mistake was NOT in reading the book, or any book. When you begin reading more on the history of the Jewish people, and the Holocaust in particular, you'll see that censorship, restricting the freedom of anyone (even/especially the authors of books like these) is no friend to the Jews or any minority group or oppressed group.

Your "mistake" may only have been in not reading MORE/ asking more/ learning more. I for one give you credit though for not closing comments on this subject and being so responsive to each and every one.

IMHO, that's how learning and healing really begin.

Margalit, you think you were educating Dana here...

By: Grace Davis Posted: 2 weeks 3 hours ago

...but your purpose was to beat and punish her, as you tried to do with me and others in your commentary on Rita Arens' Surrender Dorothy.

You can say what you want and I know BlogHer will publish it, but your accusation of BlogHer as anti-Semitic (per the post on your blog that I refuse to link here) is unequivocally wrong and transparently vicious. Because of such cruel intent, I know from many others that any time they see your name on a comment, you are readily dismissed and ignored. I would dismiss you as well but you called me a "pimp" and a writer of "dreck" in your comment at Rita's blog and I'm not going to take that crap.

Back off, Margalit.

Grace Davis

State of Grace

Those pesky Jews, the source of all of the world's problems

By: mominisrael Posted: 2 weeks 2 days ago

The idea that a successful American blogger can sit in front of her computer, admit she knows nothing about the subject, yet suggest that she has solved the most complex political situation of our time, is among the more galling things that I have seen lately. Especially when her solution is to tell one side to give up and go away.

The books mentioned in the comments do present different perspectives--different perspectives on the belief that Israel is evil. Dana, try reading some books like Joan Peters' "From Time Immemorial" and Gil Troy's "Why I Am a Zionist."

Despite claiming to know all about anti-Semitism Nennhaus's doesn't acknowledge that his suggestion is anti-Semitic in itself; Jews are the cause of their own problems and since no one will ever like them anyway, they should disappear once and for all.

Please, look at Dana's post again carefully

By: Denise Posted: 2 weeks 2 days ago

Dana admits she has no significant understanding of events in Israel.

Dana read a book about this topic.

Dana quotes the author throughout this piece.

At no time did Dana say "I believe this is the solution to the problem."

At not time did Dana advocate for the movement of Jews.

But, after reading the book I acquired a better understanding of the Jewish people and their history, and I can see why Nennhaus believes it may be in Israel's best interest to be transplanted to more suitable land in eastern Europe.

Nennhaus proposes that purchase of the land called the Kaliningrad Oblast from Russia, would encourage Russian immigrants to return to Russia by means of financial enticements, and the transfer of the Israelis to the Baltic, would prevent anyone from questioning the legitimacy of this new Israeli homeland.

What do you think? Could Israel relocate its entire nation? Could peace finally be achieved?

And then, after quoting the author and paraphrasing the author she asked you what you think... a question you've all done a great job of answering.

Before you condemn Dana with an opinion she hasn't owned as her own, read her post again.

~Denise
BlogHer Community Manager

Flamingo House Happenings

De-escalating

Denise,

Your points are well-taken. However, I'd like to make this analogy:

What if this were about...immigrants? What if this were about...African-Americans?

What if a BlogHer CE said, I don't know anything about this topic, I read this one book, here's the thesis of the one book, could the solution to all our problems related to immigrants or to African-Americans be resolved by this thesis?

The implication is there, if not in Dana's words, certainly in her thoughts.

I agree that Dana's post, in the absolute best light, is one, from her perspective, that tries to say, "Ack! I hate that war stuff!" and to her, without any other knowledge than what she tells us she possesses, that one book's simplistic suggestion struck her - not as overly simplistic but as a possibility.

I cannot speak for other BlogHers, and I am - relatively speaking - pretty new here. But I believe what I hear in the comments is that over time, BlogHer has built up the reputation for its CE's that they would not post this kind of "let's get the party started on this topic" kind of post with so little information. That there is a much greater onus on Dana than maybe on me or other non-CEs.

I am surmising - I am not saying I necessarily feel that way.

Frankly, I am too close to this issue - I grew up as a Reform Jew, my great-grandmother lost her family in the Holocaust, I've been called a Kike, I've gone to a Catholic university, been on Methodist Church missions and lived in Israel for a year working in impoverished neighborhoods (1984-1985). I married a Conservative Jew and we raise our family in a conservative synagogue (for those who don't know - that's a branch of Judaism, not conservative as in Republicans tend to be conservative).

And I differ dramatically on the topic of Israel with many of the people with whom I belong to my synaoguge - because, as it was written in the very first comment here, I don't agree with much of the Israeli gov't.

I also don't agree with the Bush gov't. Or many Republicans for that matter. Maybe we should deport all the Republicans to whichever nations they feel better represents the homogeneity they seem to desire, since this country is only going to get more diverse. (No - of course not! :)

Dana - I'm not familiar with the book you mention, though I do think the idea you say it suggests is absurd. But I don't think you are absurd. I think your post, as a "I wonder if this would work - what do you think" post demonstrates an emotional disconnect to existence and often-written about feelings of many Jews.

I'm curious to know how you came to know of this book you read.

Maybe a better post from a CE that wonders about how there may ever be peace in the one section of the Middle East you've identified (as opposed to the Persian countries) would have been (and of course can still be) to include all that you say about not knowing and THEN, ASK FOR SUGGESTIONS FOR HOW TO READ UP. Tell people that you want to read or learn about all sides - not only the hawkish stuff and not only the kumbaya stuff. Ask people for what they do, ask people for their experiences.

Again, I cannot speak for other BlogHers, but I gather that, like me, many have traveled, many are passionate (okay - pretty much all are passionate) and most if not all value thoroughness when it comes to examining ANY issue - from body image to raising kids to the Middle East.

I love that BlogHer sets an expectation that we will engage even and perhaps most when it is the most uncomfortable. But there are certain expectations too that come with that first expectation.

I don't feel that you owe an apology per se or anything like that - but I understand the outrage 100%.

What I would MUCH prefer would be for there to be an addition, update or further reflection from you about how it is that from the time you left school to the time you picked up the book you discuss, you haven't encountered any other opinions or experiences that would have helped you see why the suggestion to relocate Israelis is untenable.

Is it right for the Sudanese rebels to force the relocation of its people? How do you feel about what Mugabe has done to Zimbabwe and its forced relocation? What about the Katrina victims who've been forced to relocate for any number of reasons?

I cannot imagine any situation in the world about which I would recommend forced relocation. And so I want to understand why it is that you imply that forced relocation might "finally" bring peace.

Peace for whom?

Denise - and all the BlogHer community, I really appreciate this space for conversations. Dana - I really hope you can read what I've written in the way that I'm trying to read and process what you've written. Thank you.

Jill

Writes Like She Talks

De-escalated

Jill, you should seriously run a not-so-small country with your diplomacy skills. Thank you for your rational comments. I, too, am a newcomer to Blogher, and I took Dana's post as how (I think) she intended it: a start to a conversation about a topic she admitted she didn't know much about.

I'm not surprised by the passion in the comments, but I am confused by some of them. I wasn't aware that Blogher CEs were held to a different standard than the rest of us non-CE bloggers. Did I miss that in the mission statement or something? Is it not appropriate for a CE to write about a complex, controversial topic to garner different perspectives from extremely smart - and diverse - women all over the world?

My response to the "what if" question about immigrants or African-Americans is this: isn't honest dialogue, in a blog or face-to-face, in which we can share our perspectives - and in the process - teach each other other viewpoints the way to reconciliation and peace? While I certainly understand the vehemence and anger some of those who commented have expressed, can we ever hope to move beyond it if we can't write about it and call each other on it? Dana has expressed thanks to all who have shared their opinions and vowed to continue her education with this issue. Isn't that learning?

I, too, am close to this. I'm a reform Jew; entire branches of my family were wiped out in the Holocaust. I am often the one in my family with the radical or controversial viewpoint. Just recently I learned not to be ashamed by asking questions, and I've been extremely gratified by having Blogher as a forum for that exploration. I hope Dana addresses all of these comments, and I hope all who makes them are able to think as critically and respond as rationally as you, Jill. Because that is how we teach - and learn.

And to Denise and Lisa, THANK YOU for starting this community.

CE standard different?

Thanks for the really kind words - give me a couple of drinks at BlogHer and you'll hear about why I approach stuff this way!!

Seriously though - about the standard thing? I only meant to say that MAYBE there is such a thing as such a standard because of what WE come to see the CEs contribute. I have to tell you, I have thought outloud that some of their posts are intimidating with so much background info!!

But I don't know that there is a standard - Lisa or Elisa or Jory could speak to that - I don't actually know. But I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that the CEs do have some minimum guidelines.

I think Dana is within the range, by trying to get something going - I don't object to that as a very general premise.

But maybe it would have been easier to ease into this conversation if she was taking off the CE hat or something?

Maybe not. I'm not sure!

In any case, I actually think it's a function of how we engage anyway. It's one thing to say hey, I've been wondering...and I read this thing that I want reaction to.

That's what Dana did. But we recognize her here and I guess I'm saying that BlogHer as a community has a habit of intelligent discouse AND questioning.

So maybe the expectations are all implied and you don't realize it until you don't meet them?

In any case, I've been the one who asked the question that others have said, "do you know how offensive that is" and I didn't. It's a really stinky way to feel and I don't want Dana to feel stinky. I want her to engage and decide whether she thinks some of us have a point, or not. Maybe she DOES support forced relocation - who knows? There are folks on BlogHer who are very against abortion and very for abortion and still discuss it.

So - okay - I am exhausted! lol I've been battling several ideological fronts for some reason these last few days - is it the moons or what?

Jill, never in a million

Jill, never in a million years would I stand by a forced relocation. I wanted to keep my opinions out of this post because I don't have any. Who am I to say anything about I subject of which I know very little?

I simply wanted to know what others thought and it looks like I got an education I didn't expect. This isn't to say that I won't continue to learn more. I think as someone who writes it's my duty to examine different sources. This is just the first one I dug into. In no way does it represent how I feel, and in no way do I hold this book as the truth.

I know I know! :)

I never doubted that you don't support that, promise. :)

I was just saying that I find BlogHer to be a place where someone who DOES support it should feel that they can come in here and say so - they will challenged of course - kind of like that thread by the woman who wrote about how bad men have it in divorce and custody? Do you remember that one?

But, um, yes - I'm glad to know for sure that you don't. :) I never really suspected otherwise.

And see - I really do not want you feeling stinky!! I know how awful it can be!! Don't shrink from exploration!! We have to start somewhere, and we have to be WILLING to let people start somewhere - even if we want to re-direct a little. :)

Jill, after reading every

Jill, after reading every single comment, I can understand why it's controversial. At the time of writing this, I did my best to be objective. I was very skeptical about Nennhaus suggestion and this is why I asked the question, about what others thought, readers with more experience than I. I fully admit that I have know expertise here.

Never in a million years would intentionally write something to hurt others, and I didn't think that my reading a book and asking others what they think of the author's suggestion would cause so much pain. I'm very sorry.

not necessary for me but very appreciated

Dana, I've experienced BlogHer to be a very forgiving place - but also an unrestrained inquisitive place too. I swear, what I wrote about being the one who didn't realize that I was being so controversial? I really have been there - recently too!

If anything, what this kind of situation makes me think about is something that I have taken for granted and I bet some of the other Bloghers who are Jewish have as well: we forget how few of us in the general population there are. We forget just how many Americans have never on any level interacted with a Jewish person - at all.

Something I cannot recommend enough - for Jews and non-Jews, no matter what you think your level of knowledge is: the movie Paper Clips. Please please please rent it and watch it - preferably with your kids (10 or older I would say). It is OUTSTANDING and really helps drive home this thing related to how few people expose themselves to or are exposed to ideas different from their own.

On a final note for now, a report came out last week and i've read the full thing but haven't had time yet to write about it that said that people are attracted to political blogs by interacting with like-minded people.

That totally bummed me out - because I am attracted of course by like-minds but I really get off on unlike minds!!

And again, I find BlogHer to be one of the most humane places to engage with people of unlike minds that i've encountered (with nearly 400 feeds in my RSS reader, I feel I can say that!!)

Shalom and good Shabbos to everyone! :)

Just in time for Exodus

Dana, I absolutely believe your apology is sincere and that you had no intent to offend.

Just a little more context. Your post comes in the midst of Passover, the holiday that retells the story of the how the Jews came to the land of Israel. A people in exile, refugees, given a homeland - that's one of the great Jewish stories. Even for a nonreligious Jew that doesn't support Israel's policy, this story is critical to my identity. In the middle of this holiday you present the idea that hey, maybe the Jews could go elsewhere! Never mind the cornerstone story of the faith!

Passover also tells us to retell this story to those too naive to understand. I can't do that; I'm too angry. But calmer heads than mine, and more forgiving ones, may find the energy to point you in the right direction.

Oy! That's a great point Pam

Sheesh - I'm at home trying to make a Pesadich birthday cake for my husband and the aspect you point to, Pam - totally went over my head. lol

What she said. Thanks, Pam.

I knew that it was Passover,

I knew that it was Passover, but didn't think it through as I should have. I'm sorry.

Historically, this was attempted with blacks ...

In fact, this is how the nation of Liberia was formed. This was a considered by some a solution to the problem of slavery.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Colonization_Society http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberia#Settlers_from_the_United_States

I remember thinking the same thing...

By: zchamu Posted: 2 weeks 1 day ago

When I was in highschool I remember thinking, wow... if all this is just over a piece of land then let's just move somebody. They can take Saskatchewan, nobody'd notice. (ha, ha.)

It's incredibly oversimplistic but I guess a teenage mind will always think they've found the oversimple solutions. *edited for clarification.

Visit my blogs at ThreeSeven (all that's irrelevant and amusing) and
ecochick (all that's green, cool and Canadian).

To Denise

What if I were to read a book that recommended sending all African-Americans to live in Namibia. (And I assume that the Namibians will love this idea as much as the people of Kaliningrad will presumably enjoy having their land purchased for the new Jewish state.) And then let's say I would write on my blog, or on BlogHer: "What do you think? Could the United States relocate an entire population? Could the end of racism finally be achieved?"

If I prefaced it by saying that I know nothing about the subject of American racism, would that somehow be better?

If you think I could write that, then I can see why you think that what Dana wrote is okay.

What she did is to take an anti-Semitic book and naively present its offensive ideas as a possible, reasonable solution to the problems in the Middle East.

mominisrael, there are no

mominisrael, there are no words that I can say to express my sorrow for creating such pain. In no way do I agree with this author's suggestion, I should have said so right away.

This is how a strong community heals and strengthens itself

By: Lisa Stone Posted: 2 weeks 2 days ago

Hi everyone,

Bravo. A strong community like ours heals itself in exactly the process I see happening in these comments. Dana posted self-described "naive" questions about a book that many of us with Jewish heritage (including me) find outrageous and offensive. Rather than suffer the pain in silence, we are now in the process of correcting what we find wrong with the situation. Denise is right, Dana did not present the idea as hers, but she did inject it into our community. And it is, to all of your following points, our right to explain why the very questions cause us pain. As mominisrael writes above, "what she did is to take an anti-Semitic book and naively present its offensive ideas as a possible, reasonable solution to the problems in the Middle East."

This has been an extremely difficult experience for me to read and respond to, but I am happy about the way you are all responding and thank you for helping (re)create the community that I care so much about.

Lisa Stone
BlogHer Co-founder
Surfette

P.S. Happy to elaborate on my family tree

My grandfather changed his last name from "Saperstein" to "Stone" when he experienced anti-Semitism while job-hunting in Florida in the 1940s. His family emigrated from St. Petersburg, Russia, to Ellis Island on the eve of the Bolshevik revolution. He was one of the few children in the family born on American soil.

I have to say that my

By: Dana J. Tuszke Posted: 2 weeks 1 day ago

I have to say that my naivete stems from my own history. My ancestors came from Poland and several were Jewish but no one in my family talks about it.

When I asked my grandmother 20 years ago how we came to be Catholic her answer was "Well you always take the religion of your mother and so-and-so married but she was Catholic, so we all became Catholic." As a nine year old child I didn't know what the hell that meant. As I got older and asked more questions, I was given some vague answers but nothing that made sense.

I am terribly sorry for not being more clear with this writing. Truly sorry.

What is the mandate/responsibility of the CEs?

Could we have some clarification on this, Lisa, please. I can understand Dana's naivete and I appreciate how awful she must now feel. My own daugher-in-law came up with a similar line of conversation so I do know that a desire to learn and understand is behind Dana's initial post. However, what made my blood boil is that her post, because it was featured under her CE byline and her Politics & News banner, seemed to me to be carrying the weight of BlogHer's reputation. This is a natural assumption, I believe. You hired her and you feature her. Her 'beat' is Politics & News, so one assumes she's been given her role because of some expertise in that area. Is that not so? If she had just been another one of us publishing in the back pages (sorry if all my references are to journalism--that's what I know), I would have read her piece and gone on to something else. But on the Front Page, above the fold as it were? Now that's to be taken seriously.

I could be wrong, but I thought CE's...

By: Karoli Posted: 2 weeks 1 day ago

...volunteered for this.

Having read the original post, I can understand the depth of the reaction to it. I was taken aback too, but I will say that I felt Dana approached the topic with transparency (admitting she wasn't as informed as she'd like to be), and honesty, not intending to cause pain or harm. I also see a number of heartfelt apologies from her to those most offended by it.

There is probably no perfect solution to the question of peace between Palestine and Israel, but I'd like to think that there would be peace between those offended by the post and Dana, the writer, particularly when she's done what I consider to be a magnificent job of saying "mea culpa", humbly and in a heartfelt manner.

This is such a passionate and close-to-home topic that it took a certain amount of bravery to dare to approach it, and I'm sure she learned from what everyone has written here, as I did.

If the outcome is learning and coming to a greater understanding, that's some form of progress we all should be able to embrace, despite the awkward beginning.

karoli (odd time signatures)

Issues and People

By: Mata H Posted: 2 weeks 2 days ago

The suggestion by the author that Jews just move one more time can only happen when people become issues, not people anymore. When people become "the problem", not living, breathing families with lives and passions and cares and attachments -- not people like you and me. It is easy to move a problem, impossible to imagine moving millions of people.

And, the only people we can turn into "problems" or "issues" are people around which we have prejudices.

A good rule of thumb, Dana, for whether or not you are reading racist or anti-semitic or any kind of prejudicial material is when the author starts treating "people" as "issues" or "problems". Persuasive writers with seductive writing may even lull you into wondering that way too, if only for a while. But that kind of thought (as you have seen more than adequately) just causes pain.

~~ Contributing Editor, Mata H. also blogs at Time's Fool

Mata, thank you for that

Mata, thank you for that good advice. I appreciate it greatly.

Given the vehemence of some

By: heivilinj Posted: 2 weeks 2 days ago

Given the vehemence of some of the comments I wonder if a successful tactic for learning about new topics (I don't know enough about the history of the Middle East either) might be to place yourself in the shoes of the people involved in the "issue".

I know that I certainly wouldn't like to be told I had to sell my house and move my family someplace else just because (for example) my eyes were blue.

Might that be a useful barometer to use when considering "solutions"?

Jim Heivilin

I wondered how this was going to pan out when

By: Crunchy Carpets Posted: 2 weeks 2 days ago

I read this post...

Dana has been very honest with her lack of knowledge and was also careful to point out that she thought the book was controversial.

For someone who admits to not knowing much on the subject...,kudos to reading anything on the topic.

However..this really is quite telling about how little some people know of the world outside of the US - and the polics and history behind some of the situations we are seeing today.

Iraq is another good example.

I think ALL US citizens need to take a course of Middle Eastern History....it is VERY complicated and filled with outside forces meddling ...colonialism, imperialism and politics causing horror and hatred...

but all in a distance to the rest of us....what is far away can't hurt right....

Look for me at http://crunchycarpets.com or check out the ladies at www.wetcoastwomen.com

I do believe I need a course

I do believe I need a course in Middle Eastern history, one that digs deep enough to give me a better understanding.

lol - but beware!! :)

Dana - there is so much to know, but even then - when you know it, the heart and experience often overrules, not unlike so many other issues with which we grapple. I don't agree with what a couple of commenters here have said but we're all just more voices.

Even then - it's good to hear those voices.

Watch Fiddler on the Roof - Tevye and his three hands for how he decides. That's pretty much how it still is in a lot ways. :)

It is insane..the history of the region...

and the genocidal mentalities running that part of the world ....religion is only a tiny part of it...

Unfortunately, a lot of people share your simplistic view

By: compugraphd Posted: 2 weeks 2 days ago

B"H

I have a lot to say about your original post and, while I read a number of the comments, I didn't read them all, so if I repeat anything that has been said before, please excuse me.

I can only hope that your purpose in writing this was to learn more about the subject. I hope the comments you have received have helped in this regard and I hope I can add to your education on this subject.

First of all, I'd like to suggest you read my blog "Israel and its place in the world" at http://israelanditsplaceintheworld.blogspot.com/ for some more insights. I do have a bit of a background. I have family in Israel (I've been to Israel myself 4 times, once for 9 months of a 1 year program, the rest for family celebrations). I learned quite a bit of Jewish History in my years in Yeshiva (Jewish Day School, not after school Hebrew School) and I learn more by working with my tutees. So, perhaps, I have a bit more understanding of the subject.

"I do remember learning about the Holy Land in catechism class, but
only as it pertained to the Roman-Catholic faith, the Bible, or Jesus
Christ himself."

As a Roman Catholic, I doubt you could possibly understand what Israel means to the heart and soul of the Jewish people. I won't even attempt to explain it in this short (?!?!) forum.

"I once asked a teacher why there were so many conflicts in the
Middle East, why people were always fighting with each other, but I
never received an answer that made any sense. My questions were often
answered with generalizations or personal assumptions."

Sigh. This is a problem. If I were to try to explain the roots of this issue it would sound paranoid. I would suggest you read Brigitte Gabriel's book "Because They Hate". While it's not a Jewish perspective on the issue, it gives you an idea of what happens when open-minded people let the Islamists move in.

"'For Jews and non-Jews alike," Nennhaus writes, "the State of Israel
has become the source of disappointment and concern. The world has
witnessed the never-ending tragedy that has befallen the Holy Land with
its wars, bombings and intifadas, and the United States, in spite of
its unmatched influence, has been unable to resolve the crisis.'"

I'm quite surprised that Israel is a source of disappointment. To me, the only disappointment I have with Israel is its government's inability to see the true threat and protect its citizens (especially those in Sderot, but I digress). The wars, bombings and intifadas are caused, quite simply, by the Islamists' aversion to a Jewish presence in a place they consider theirs. Israel, BTW, is a bit smaller than New Jersey and has a population density of over 700 people per square mile (this is a far higher population density than Jordan, Egypt, Syria and Saudi Arabia and far less land and even the smallest of these four). Israel is anything but a disappointment to Jews living there, the technology companies who have branches there, the cell phone customers all over the world (the technology for cell phones was developed in Israel, which probably explains the high per capita cell phone use in Israel).

I can't understand how anyone could be disappointed with a Israel -- the people who have lived in Israel have taken a place that was desolate and turned into a garden spot. They took a colony and turned it into a country. They took a place living under despots and dictators and created a democracy. They took a spot in the third world and created a modern country based on freedom, liberty and equality for all. They took a piece of real estate (much of which was paid for by Jewish agencies and private Jews) and turned it into a haven not only for oppressed Jews (eg Soviet Jews, Ethiopian Jews, Yemenite Jews, etc.) but also for oppressed non-Jews (eg Vietnamese boat people, members of the Baha'i faith, etc.). How can anyone be disappointed with that?

"The author believes that peace in Israel cannot be achieved if
things stay as they are and always have been, and offers that the
solution may lie in relocating the State of Israel to a geographic
region where there is no hostility."

Interesting idea, but hardly new. When Theodore Herzl, the father of Zionism, first thought about what would erase anti-Semitism in the world (he had just been witness to one of the most anti-Semitic happenings in his generation, the Dreyfus Affair -- and the people yelled "kill the Jews" -- not "kill the traitor" or "kill the Jew" singular, but "kill the Jews") he thought of having the Jews settle Uganda. That really didn't fly. Zionism is centered in Zion, another name for Israel. Israel is the center of our lives, the center of our relationship with G-d. Any other place is just like living in a dormitory -- it's nice, but it's not home.

"I wonder how this would work? Would it solve the many conflicts that
arise between Israelis and Palestinians? Where would the State of
Israel relocate? Should the United States end the war in Iraq and
assist the Israelis instead?"

By the way, it wouldn't work too well. For 2000 or so year, Jews have lived mostly outside of Israel (there has always been a Jewish presence in Israel since the time of Joshua, somewhere in the neighborhood of 3000 years ago). And we've been kicked out of more countries than I care to list. Each country complained about our presence. Each country, like the world currently, blamed us for all their ills. So finally we decided it's time for us to have our own country again, with G-d's help. So now, these same people (all right, the descendants of these same people) who were for so many centuries, upset that we didn't have our own country, are now upset that we DO have our own country. When you realize that nothing you do pleases others, you realize it's time to please yourself.

I also have a problem with all the people who either say that Israel is the whole problem or that both sides are equally responsible. Think about this truism -- if the Arabs were to put down their weapons there would be no more war; if Israelis put down their weapons, there would be no more Israel.

Israel has spent the past 60 years (and then some) trying to make peace, trying to live in peace, making concessions, defending itself from enemies. When Israel had Gaza, it was a beautiful community. Now it's little more than a launching pad for missiles heading for Sderot or other populated areas. Why are we so anxious to repeat this mistake with Judea and Samaria (aka "the West Bank")?

Unlike the Palestinian Authority (which has shown beyond a reasonable doubt that it doesn't deserve its own country), Israel accepts people of all ethnicities, religions, national origins, races, sexual orientation, etc. Jews have been kicked out of every area given to the Palestinian Authority but Israel doesn't kick out anyone. The existing Palestinian "refugees" left their homes voluntarily at the request of the enemies of Israel. Israel has never forcibly displaced any population (except its own, as in Gaza and the Sinai).

From my perspective, the only solution is for Israel to defend itself, its citizens and its guests (whether they be tourists or people from other countries in Israel to earn a living). Unless the Palestinian Authority, whether it's run by Hamas or Fata, has something to lose, peace will never happen.

Thank you for your comment

Thank you for your comment and the link to your blog. I appreciate it very much.

"As a Roman Catholic, I doubt you could possibly understand what Israel
means to the heart and soul of the Jewish people."

Please don't discount me because I'm Catholic, nor because I want to learn more about Israel and the Jewish people. I think it's very important to learn from each other and I'm happy you've given me more information.

I also thank you for your

I also thank you for your information. Your presentation is must easier to assimilate (and understand) than the outraged and emotional comment from animzmirot.

I like to think if more people spoke with a calm, peaceful mien that the world would be a better place.

well, calm but

bias and a tad inacurate in how Israel treats and feels about those non jewish countries around them and those living there.

but hey..that is just my opinion.

really???

"I can't understand how anyone could be disappointed with a Israel --
the people who have lived in Israel have taken a place that was
desolate and turned into a garden spot. They took a colony and turned
it into a country. They took a place living under despots and dictators
and created a democracy. They took a spot in the third world and
created a modern country based on freedom, liberty and equality for
all."

This I have issues with....perhaps books that are written by non jewish and non palestinians would be better...take away the bias and blaming one group over an other.

Israel is guilty of many atrocities too. No matter the REASONS or excuses...or why or how the country was formed in the first place

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