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Sarah is the Fresh Air

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Some Democrats are saying Sarah Palin's a token, but she's not a token to me. She's not a token to those who voted her into office time after time, first to the city council, then as mayor, and now governor of Alaska.

Sarah's not a token to millions across America who volunteer countless hours to community groups and local government, along with raising their children.

Sarah's not a token to working moms. In one example, when she moved into the governor's mansion Palin let the personal chef go--she said she and her family can make their own meals, a step to preserve her family life despite her responsibilities, and a can-do attitude we can all admire.

Sarah's not a token to Second Amendment Sisters who know the police can't be everywhere and want to defend themselves--in urban and rural areas alike.

Sarah's not a token to feminists for life, taking the responsibility to bring up her Down Syndrome baby.

Sarah's not a token to those of us who are disgusted with corrupt government, where pay to play is the norm. Where we have failed in Illinois, Palin has succeeded in Alaska. (no thanks to Barack Obama who embraced business as usual in his corrupt home state at every opportunity, where Democrats hold every major office) She's a David against the Goliath of entrenched interests.

Sarah's not a token to porkbusters around the country, underscoring Sen. McCain's maverick message to the powers that be of both parties--stop the wasteful spending, no more earmarks that put legislators' and their cronies' priorities ahead of the people's. And you gotta love a governor who put her predecessor's jet up on eBay for auction.

Sarah's not a token to those who appreciate real bipartisan efforts. Alaskans had been trying to get agreement on the path of a pipeline to bring oil the the continental US for 30 years--she got it done, at a time when Americans are forking over $4.00 a gallon for gas. She has a real record of executive leadership, not a phony one, not an evasive one.

Sarah Palin is not a token. If her name were Stan she'd still be a force. Her being a woman is a plus. And it's historic, even Hillary has graciously acknowledged that, as has Geraldine Ferraro, and she has acknowledged them. Her high approval ratings reflect that she has touched and impressed many all around the country.

Those on the left who profoundly demean her in this way demean all women by assuming the only reason she would be chosen is because of gender. That is the kind of empty, divisive politics the country is tired of. Disagree on the issues, fine. A lot of us ladies agree with her a lot. But make no mistake, Sarah Palin is a trailblazer. She didn't get where she is with a boost by virtue of being someone's wife, or coming from a political family. She earned a scholarship to college and has worked hard all her life.

Sarah is the fresh air the country needs. She is the real emblem of hope and change, and joins Sen. McCain in his bid to reform Washington and get things done for the country.

P.S. Here's to the first dude!:):

Like my husband — up here they refer to him as the "first dude," not the first gentleman. And Todd... And he is such a dude. He's a four-time winner of the Iron Dog snow machine race, which is the the world's longest and they say toughest snow machine race, 2,000 miles across Alaska. A whole new chapter here when Todd is asked to do things like — and he graciously complies and he has a good time doing it — hosting, as he did a couple of weeks ago down in Juneau, our capital city, the former first ladies tea party. And he does just great at things like that, as well as working in oil fields, with snow machines and in commercial fishing.

P.P.S. The supposed scandal debunked. Read it all, but here's an excerpt:

Trooper Wooten was under investigation more than a year before Palin put in her two cents. After being sworn in as governor, the investigation concluded--five days suspension.

The record clearly indicates a

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lolabee 5 pts

Sarah Palin is the same woman who dismissed community groups stating that they dont get much done and its not REAL experience. There are plenty of women in this country and in our political system who are working mothers-balancing a career with maintaining a family. Does that mean that we need to vote for the first woman we see, no matter what her views are?? Do you seriously think that she is going to bring change, let alone anything to Washington? IF they get voted into the White house, her job will be done and she will merely fade away into the background and obscurity. Her working mom rhetoric is getting old. She is being closetted and protected by the republican party.

Suzanne 5 pts

I don't actually know the denominational breakdown of who gets an abortion.

According to the Alan Guttmacher Institute ( http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_induced_abortion... ), "Forty-three percent of women obtaining abortions identify themselves as Protestant, and 27% as Catholic."

Hope that helps. AGI is fabulous for these types of information nuggets.

Suzanne Reisman ( http://www.blogher.com/member/suzanne-reisman ), Contributing Editor - Feminism & Gender ( http://blogher.org/topic/feminism-gender )
Campaign for Unshaved Snatch (CUSS) & Other Rants ( http://cussandotherrants.com/ )

Trisha 5 pts

Yeah, a theocracy is what we have now.

 recent post:

10 Reasons Why Sarah Palin Should Not be the VP of the U.S. ( http://www.ideasforwomen.com/news/change/2008/09/0... )

Trisha 5 pts

It's scaring the hell out of me too!

And its embarrassing also - I'm embarrassed of the current president, embarrassed that anyone would even consider Palin qualified as a running mate and I'd be even more embarrassed of this country if McCain won.

I even had someone leave a comment on my blog questioning the necessity of having more than a bachelor's degree to be president. How do you even respond to that?

my last post:

10 Reasons Why Sarah Palin Should Not be the VP of the U.S. ( http://www.ideasforwomen.com/news/change/2008/09/0... )

L16 5 pts

"The country's anti-intellectualism regarding this election makes me angry."

Angry?  Not just angry, it is scaring the hell out of the rest of the world.  All any one of us can do is focus our energy and directing undecideds towards Obama platform stuff, and registering our non voting friends and getting them to a polling station.  I saw something really cool on Obama's site today, they were web streaming a town hall speech he was doing in Michigan and then he took q's after too.  When I started watching it said 800 people were watching online, by the time I had to leave for work there was over 2000 watching online.  It was the sort of thing you could have on in the background at your desk job.  I wish I lived in the States so I could volunteer.

mamiel 5 pts

I find it disturbing that the McCain campaign isn't allowing Ms. Palin to be interviewed by reporters. What are they hiding?

mamiel 5 pts

<<<<Sarah's not a token to millions across America who volunteer countless
hours to community groups and local government, along with raising
their children.>>>>

Funny, I've heard two speeches she's given now in which she mocked community service, specifically mocked Obama's work as a community organizer. I don't see her as a friend to people doing community work, she appeared downright hostile to it.

Trisha 5 pts

"It worries me the anti-intellectualism that runs through so much
of America when it comes to who should run the country. The politics
of Bush, McCain, and the Dan Quayle-like qualities of Palin just make
me shudder. "

Very well said! I wish I could express my thoughts as well. The anti-intellectualism that runs through the country is making the US a joke to the rest of the world.

my last post:

10 Reasons Why Sarah Palin Should Not be the VP of the U.S. ( http://www.ideasforwomen.com/news/change/2008/09/0... )

Trisha 5 pts

she's a token - but more importantly she's not qualified.  

But maybe we should keep our mouths shut about this - McCain might just change his mind and pick someone better.  As it is, this is looking great for Obama.   

my last post:

10 Reasons Why Sarah Palin Should Not be the VP of the U.S. ( http://www.ideasforwomen.com/news/change/2008/09/0... )

miteegirl 5 pts

And if you liked that, you'll love Samantha Bee's response to the Palin pick:

Sarah Palin may be the ideological opposite of Hillary Clinton, but she's her gynecological twin. ( http://www.indecision2008.com/video/index.jhtml?vi... )

(The audio in this link is either PG-13 or R rated depending upon your personal ideology, FYI.  No swear words, no nudity, but they do use words like "Vagina" and "Love Pita".  Just a warning.)

Jill Miller Zimon 5 pts

You are, I think  - I really didn't want Clinton or Obama, but there's no chance I'll go McCain/Palin (wouldnt have done McCain with anyone though - her policies and performance just make it easier for me to pull for Obama).  I mean - I really hated that Ohio mattered! I did not want to have to choose - I thought it would be all over.  Oh well - that seems like decades ago now!!

Anyway - what I also wanted to say was this - first I don't know who Wright is - who is Wright - did I maybe miss a commnt? I'm sorry if I did; Don't mean to drag you backwards.

But also - about this:

"liberals encourage people to be sexually active outside of marriage,
but if the woman ends up pregnant, they think that responsibility
should be ended through an abortion."

Ok - I don't know WHO the "liberals" are in this sentence, but I do not know nor have I ever in my 46 years of being left of center and around many people far more progressive than me EVER met ANYONE who encourages people to have sex outside of marriage.  Encourages??

And THEN the second part too - people who encourage pre-marital sex AND abortions?

All the women I know who have had abortions are either Catholic or Protestant.  I don't actually know the denominational breakdown of who gets an abortion.

But seriously - please - can we not throw around such sweeping statements? We KNOW they aren't true - they just aren't.  Let's try to stick with real examples that help our arguments, not make people more likely to scroll away because of the generalizations (and yes I know I make the same error from time to time).

Jill
Writes Like She Talks ( http://www.writeslikeshetalks.com )

miteegirl 5 pts

"who just so happens to be the Republican VP nominee they now feel they have a right to tell her what she should or should not be doing in regards to her family."

Well, I couldn't agree with you more there.  Members of the media are really hashing out the wrong stuff, IMO.

Do you think some of the ire is based upon 30 years of Republicans (politicians and pundits) dragging the personal lives of Democrats into campaigns while remaining unapologetic about their own foibles?  

I'm not apologizing for it.  Just trying to understand the intensity of it.

It doesn't help when Rick Davis, McCain's campaign manager, says that the "this campaign is not about the issues." ( http://www.blogher.com/"This election is not about issues," said Davis. "This election is about a composite view of what people take away from these candidates." )  And when McCain rep's won't answer questions about the issues.

I think more of us would like to hear about the issues from the McCain camp.

Laracolvin 5 pts

I think many women, including me, are vehement about Sarah Palin because she is being hailed as a wonder woman who represents the "everywoman", which is the furthest thing from the truth. Her stance on issues that have historically mattered to many (not all, but many) women is about 180 degrees different than ours. I mean POLAR OPPOSITE! Perhaps some of us get overly passionate and don't express it in ways that are completely respectful - and I'm the first to call myself on it when it happens- or articulate, but this is debate. Just because we are fired up doesn't mean we are fighting. I think there is a real difference between the two.

As for reasons I'm personally vehement (or angry), you only need to look at the last eight years: our country's debt; the lives lost of our troops and other innocent civilians overseas; the immense amount of Americans who don't have health insurance; our environment that is literally melting away; the children who don't have an education founded or operating on equality; and a world that detests the United States and what our administration stands for. This is what makes me angry. The country's anti-intellectualism regarding this election makes me angry. And, yes, the distraction of Sarah Palin makes me angry. As does John McCain - even more so in fact. So yes, John McCain and Sarah Palin are a threat, but not in the way you are implying they are. I feel they are a threat to our future. Our children's future. Our country's future in a global society.

And. that. makes. me. angry.

Notions of Identity ( http://www.notionsofidentity.com )

Kathleen Marie 5 pts

That there is real hypocrosy with many liberal women (yes I voted Democrat for 30 years) when it comes to Palin. The liberal media claim that all women should have choices, but for some reason when it comes to a conservative politician who just so happens to be the Republican VP nominee they now feel they have a right to tell her what she should or should not be doing in regards to her family.

"According to Wright, while conservatives discourage sex outside of
marriage, they "rally around those who have made that mistake and are
facing an unexpected pregnancy."  Wright says on the flip side,
liberals encourage people to be sexually active outside of marriage,
but if the woman ends up pregnant, they think that responsibility
should be ended through an abortion."

I can't say I disagree with Wright's statement. 

On another note it is so nice to have some real blood in this once very dull campaign. And yes, Palin is a sweet breeze to many and no that does not mean I will be voting for her but it doesn't mean I won't either. I am a pro-life democrat and pro-choice does not mean pro-life. It seems I read that somewhere yesterday on this blog. Personally I just can't stomach McCain or Biden. Tough choices. 

http://theopenwindow1.blogspot.com/

miteegirl 5 pts

How about a Theocracy? How do you feel about fascism?

You can throw out the word "socialist" but it isn't what Democrats are aiming for.  If you are going to try to get such claims to stick, recognize the vulnerabilities in the Republican arguments as well.

Kathleen Marie 5 pts

To homeschool our children and when I asked for some assistance in areas, textbooks, sports, etc... I was turned down flat. I know this isn't the norm. In SD homeschooled kids can play in sports, be in band, even take a class or two... Maybe that has changed in NE as well. I hope so because as long as I am paying taxes I would hope that I and my children can use the facilities or programs.

And yes, I love living in a Democracy but a Socialist government is just not my cup of tea.

I do believe people should have more of a say into what programs they would like to support, whether it be education, Fine Arts, Security,... 

http://theopenwindow1.blogspot.com/

Jill Miller Zimon 5 pts

"Also, I wonder why so many women seem so angry about Palin? Maybe she is that much of a threat after all?"

 :)

Jill
Writes Like She Talks ( http://www.writeslikeshetalks.com )

Kathleen Marie 5 pts

I changed my subject line late. I realized after re-reading it that no, I do not pay my property taxes twice. My error but I did pay for my children's education twice. I did not receive tax vouchers from either state. I did not have a choice on sending my children to another public school at the time. I did have a choice to send my child to a parochial school or to homeschool but that did mean that I paid twice for my children's education.

Also, I wonder why so many women seem so angry about Palin? Maybe she is that much of a threat after all?

http://theopenwindow1.blogspot.com/

dellisevans 5 pts

Look... please stop repeating all the same Republican defenses to Palin as the VP choice and make up your own mind.  Palin is not a maverick pick, she's a token pick for McCain who hopes to get Hillary voters and win an election regardless of whether she is the best choice for the country, but Hillary voters are smarter than that. So much for "Country First" This choice is a blessing for Obama because it contradicts all the arguments that McCain brought up about Obama.. and what Country First is he talking about?  Its interesting to me that there is no diversity at this convention. Why is that? and I'm not talking about the few wealthy black people sprinkled throughout the convention.  America is full of all ethnic backgrounds and cultures but I see none of that represented at this convention.  Maybe its because it doesn't fit into the "values" of the Republican Base.  No one wants to say it but I will... I'd love to hear your responses.

Jill Miller Zimon 5 pts

Kathleen, combined there are a few million, max, kids in parochial, private and homeschool settings.  But by no means is it anywhere near a majority.  And these are family decisions.

State and loca taxes that we pay subsidize many programs we don't even know about, but that often includes ones that benefit us, that are paid for by people who never get the benefits.  That's part of being in a democracy.  Now - if you don't want to be in a democracy, and would rather be in country with some other form of government that would allow everyone to keep their money, do as they please and let only the fittest survive, well - you aren't in the right place.

I love that the government promotes and regulates social rpgorams that I may one day need but currently don't use yet pay for - who can ever know what might befall us? Seriously. I know.  They found a kid with ammo in my son's high school today - in a suburb where people think nothing but 90210 junk happens.

You never know when it could be you who needs assistance.  Never.  Nothing wrong with oversight and restraint - but also nothing wrong with giving so others can have - even if when it's through government. 

Jill
Writes Like She Talks ( http://www.writeslikeshetalks.com )

miteegirl 5 pts

Well, you write a check to your local government for property taxes once.

You pay out of your disposable after-tax income when you choose an alternative to the public education offered.

If you decided that you didn't like the local police force and hired your own security detail?  You would only be paying taxes once that contributed to the local police.  The security detail would come out of your disposable after-tax income.

If you decided that you didn't care for the drinking water supplied by your city?  And you chose to buy bottled water for drinking?  Yep, that would be paid for out of your disposable after-tax income.

Does that help to clarify?

 (p.s.  Just wanted to point out, Kathleen, that your original headline above was "Yes, I do pay taxes twice" before you changed it after I posted by reply.  Your original response was forwarded to me via email because I subscribed to the thread.  Didn't want anyone reading my response to think that I was mis-reading what you had originally written.)

Kathleen Marie 5 pts

My very high property taxes go to the public school system here in South Dakota and it was the same in Nebraska. I homeschooled my children for awhile and also sent them to a parochial school. Yes, I paid twice for my child's education. Millions do.

http://theopenwindow1.blogspot.com/

Jill Miller Zimon 5 pts

:)

Thanks - yes - I would say that's good.  And to the extent that Gov. Palin doesn't yet appear to have given much evidence of really respecting the three branches of government and appearing to be more enamored of the unitary executive concept, this lack of experience in DC is really striking, and relevant, to me.

But you know - we each decide how we decide.  I'm not sure what more we can do or should do with one another other than be exposed to the different ways people do this - and maybe see which methods produce the leaders we decide are the best.

Jill
Writes Like She Talks ( http://www.writeslikeshetalks.com )

evilslutopia 5 pts

In one example, when she moved into the governor's mansion Palin let the personal chef go ( http://polijamblog.polijam.com/?p=1731 )

That's plus one to Alaska's unemployment numbers ;-)

The Evil Slut Clique
Evilslutopia ( http://evilslutopia.blogspot.com )

Southerngirl 5 pts

 i'm a lot of things but what i am not is a vagina american.

That is just the best line ever!

Michelle

http://mommycan.blogspot.com/

miteegirl 5 pts

Well, hmm.  I'm voting Obama/Palin, I believe that there is nothing that I've written here that you can point to where I have profoundly demeaned her.  If you can find any comment in these threads that does that, I would ask you to specifically quote it here.

Am I questioning her record?  Her skills and abilities?  Her relevant knowledge?

Yes, I am.  To do anything less would be not fulfilling my duties as a voting citizen to raise concerns or to ask tough questions about any candidate's qualifications.

Jill Miller Zimon 5 pts

For this:

"...not all "liberal" women are assuming Palin was chosen simply because of her gender."

I actually do believe that, but to add to Lara's point, some "liberal" women I know feel that she was chosen because of her alleged record as a "reformer."

And this:

"...those of us who politically align more to the left do not all think the same way, nor do we analyze the same way on our blogs."

And this:

"I'd like to make the point that not questioning her as a running mate because she is a woman would be just as demeaning."

Jill
Writes Like She Talks ( http://www.writeslikeshetalks.com )

Laracolvin 5 pts

Hi, Shannon. I just want to make the point that not all "liberal" women are assuming Palin was chosen simply because of her gender. Personally, I think the Republicans were looking for a distraction - and this has been a successful one. That can be considered demeaning as well...I get that.

I was driving home in the middle of IL on I-55 yesterday, and on KMOX (a station out of St. Louis) was a talk show (I think it was the Mark Reardon show based on the station's schedule) that was discussing Sarah Palin's selection and her daughter's situation, among other things. This host successfully lumped all liberal bloggers together by making generalizations that all "liberals" thought alike and should be ashamed for asking the questions they asked in their blogs. He refused to let any caller who disagreed finish his/her statement. It was quite obviously a conservative show that wasn't really seeking a true conversation. He also stated that if this were Biden or Obama's child, neither the press nor the Republicans would be making an issue of it. After I finished choking on the snort that got stuck in my throat, I made the point to my husband that if the tables were reversed, it would be over for the Dems. I think Bill Clinton's "private, family matter" and how it was nudged more than a bit by the Republicans is proof of that. 

I think you've seen here that those of us who politically align more to the left do not all think the same way, nor do we analyze the same way on our blogs. I'm not saying you and Anne are stating differently, but I wanted to make the point anyway. Also, I'd like to make the point that not questioning her as a running mate because she is a woman would be just as demeaning. 

Notions of Identity ( http://www.notionsofidentity.com )

Laracolvin 5 pts

"well if you're a parent paying it, I think it is significant. For the
record, my kids went to public schools, but I think it is criminal that
poor kids are stuck in the failed Chicago schools. I believe 40% of
chicago teachers send their own kids to private schools, the system is
so bad."

Did your kids go to Chicago Public schools? Or did they go to school in Wilmette? I'm just wondering what kind of authority you have to speak about the CPS school system other than an academic who reads a lot. And I mean no disrespect by that. But, as someone who actually lives in the city of Chicago, not the suburbs, I see a very different picture. I, and many of my neighbors, have chosen to enroll our kids in the neighborhood public school at the preschool level, join the  PTO, talk to the mayor's office again and again and again to work for resources, and many of us actually lost deposits on private schools when we made this decision to put our kids in CPS. Private schools - especially the ones that offered similar resources to our neighborhood school - were simply too expensive and lacked the diversity we are seeking. We have high hopes for our neighborhood elementary school, and we are measuring success by more than test scores.

And before you blame the difficulties of this HUGE urban education system on one person, Barack Obama, which is about as ridiculous as blaming the outcome of the Vietnam War on John McCain (both have served in war zones of a different kind, no?), I'd make the point that unless you are in the city trying to change the system from the inside out (as many families and local politicians are trying to do), your criticism of it and of paying taxes for public education is doing nothing but presenting another barrier for improvement.  Anne, are you involved in the CPS system? Do you teach in it? Did your kids attend schools in it? Or are you just analyzing it from the suburbs?  I'm really interested in hearing about your involvement.

Thanks. 

Notions of Identity ( http://www.notionsofidentity.com )

rocksinmydryer 5 pts

Anne, you said, "Those on the left who profoundly demean her in this way demean all women by assuming the only reason she would be chosen is because of gender."  I agree with you, and I submit that, even worse, they indicate that the only women's voices that matter are the liberal women's voices. 

Shannon @ Rocks In My Dryer
www.rocksinmydryer.net ( http://www.rocksinmydryer.net/ )
BlogHer Contributing Editor, Mommy and Family

Candelaria Silva 5 pts

It worries me the anti-intellectualism that runs through so much of America when it comes to who should run the country.  The politics of Bush, McCain, and the Dan Quayle-like qualities of Palin just make me shudder.  The Republicans could have come up with a better ticket than both of them in my opinion.  I am gonna work my tail off to help Obama/Biden get elected.

I'm learning from the candidacy of Palin, that I shouldn't ever think I can't do something because I can even if I don't know what I'm doing.

The comments on this post - have been fabulous, especially those deconstructing the choice of Palin.

Olympia Snow, Condi Rice, hell they could have brought Elizabeth Dole to the par-ty, those would be much better choices than Palin.

 The Republicans can spin her any way they want to but she is not the appropriate person for the job.

Carry on, sisters.

blog.candelariasilva.com

Good and plenty!

hfreeman17 5 pts

Even over here in the stale NYC subway tunnels, Sarah Palin is fresh air.  She could well be a New Yorker - tough, straight talking, compassionate.  My wife and I love what we see so far.  I hope she has a great fall for the ticket.

Jill Miller Zimon 5 pts

One thing when really, it's another.

Most teachers do not live in the district where they teach.  So if they send their kids to private school, they are doing so either because their home school district is inadequate or they prefer a different kind of education.

Also, since you say you've had kids, then you probably are very well aware that many parents, with and without means, often place their kids in whatever educational setting works best for them - including homeschool, unschool, parochial, private independent, special needs and so on. My three kids are very different and we've had them in a variety of settings as dictated by those needs - regardless of some of the hardships at times, and changed up because of the hardships at times.  Again - most people involved in education are keenly aware of the need to check out different settings, based on the child's needs - not only the family's demands.

In the meantime, Anne, you've yet to respond to what you think about the $1billion the Gates Foundation put into the small schools reform effort, starting in 2002, in 20 or so different states - including Alaska. I would like to know your opinion - I'm pretty sure Chicago has had similar reform efforts.

Jill
Writes Like She Talks ( http://www.writeslikeshetalks.com )

Clamo88 5 pts

I also wondered why McCain didn't choose Condi...but perhaps he discussed it with her and she wasn't interested?  Who knows.  That would have been a good pick for his campaign though.  Or maybe it would really turn off voters who are "in the middle" as Condi would be too much of a reminder of GWB?  I don't know.

At any rate, I'm not impressed with Palin.  Her qualifications are so nil that it makes me feel like McCain is pandering.  I don't like to be pandered to, yo!  :)

Jenn Barnes
( http://hrwench.blogspot.com )

Blog: HR Wench ( http://hrwench.blogspot.com )

Twitter: hrwench ( http://twitter.com/hrwench )

Lovebabz 5 pts

Jill you are holding it down Sister!  I applaud YOUR intelligence and common sense!  Gosh if more women were as smart! SHIT.

So I am checking Gov Palin who is a fan of creationism and abstinance....LOL!  Just not at her house right....but she wants to legilsate what happenes in my house.   Oh yeah that is a private matter now...no one can bring it up as part of her political qualifications.  LOL!

Then she should shut the FUCK UP about abstinance being worthwhile tool in fighthing teenage pregancy.  Cause if it didn't work in her house...where they have strong beliefs and GUNS then how is it going to work anywhere? 

You have got to be kidding me.  And some folks actually want her to be VP...OH SHIT...LOL!  Next in line for the Presidency! LOL 

Look, I for one can't wait to get to November to end this joke on the American public.  Saturday Night Live is going to have a field day with this!!!!!  When does the new season start?

Love, ( http://lovebabz.blogspot.com )

Babz ( http://lovebabz.blogspot.com )

shelleyp 5 pts

Loved the title of your post.

I'm surprised more people aren't mentioning Olympia Snow. Now she could have successfully grabbed unhappy Clinton supporters, I think.

shelleyp 5 pts

"A small point. Private and parochial school parents pay taxes too...for schools their kids do not attend.

In effect they pay twice"

I live next door in Missouri. I believe that Illinois has an education tax credit, which reimburses families that spend a certain amount on education a year. Unless you live in a wealthy neighborhood with a big, fine home, the credit probably covers most of what you pay.

I personally don't agree with tax credits or vouchers, I pay taxes that go to the local school system AND I don't have any kids. I consider the money an investment in the future. It is the kids in public schools who will lead the country in the future--our investments should go to all the kids, not the privledged. Or the religious cultists, for that matter.

If people want private school, let them pay for it. Otherwise, your kids are always welcome at the local public school. Always welcome.

As for your assertion that private schools deliver a better education than public? Do you have links with facts to back up your assertion?  The only facts (such as http://www.livescience.com/health/080527-public-sc... I can find on public versus private is that in most cases, the public schools do as well or better than the private. Oh, there will always be the ivy league prep schools. But let's face it: the parents who send their kids to these schools aren't worried about school vouchers.

It's difficult to accept the credibility of your statements when you don't back them up with links to relevant, fact-based (not opinion based) material. An advantage to online discussions is you can always include a link.

If you want to phrase your comments as expressions of personal opinion, well then it's a different story. Express away. 

Maria Niles 5 pts

I just thought you might be reading something more high-minded into my comment when I was just being snarky, that's all. You keep on being a smarty pants and free associating ;)

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Jill Miller Zimon 5 pts

That's all - I didn't meant to imply that you said that - only that I free associated that way.  Sorry.

Jill
Writes Like She Talks ( http://www.writeslikeshetalks.com )

Maria Niles 5 pts

I was just attempting to point out in a snarky way that much of the arguing is superficial, silly and often hypocritical talking points spin.

Candidates running for office who hold office don't do their jobs. All of them. Sarah Palin is now going to not show up for her job, too. As long as we set the terms of the debate as neener, neener I'm rubber, you're glue... then our democracy is in a sad state.

What does that have to do with how the candidates think we should approach Iraq, health care, the economy or the environment. This is what I hate about politics - the politics. And it saddens me that that nonsense works on some people.

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Jill Miller Zimon 5 pts

And I think that your comment makes the case that if we each debated the merits and deficits of either ticket as they impact us and expose one another to the different ways of looking at the candidates, without telling each other what we think is best for ALL of America (and yeah, I'm guilty of that too), the better off the selection will be - since, after all, we're the ones who will be governed - shouldn't the vote represent that?

Is this too obvious? I guess I feel like people really want to drive our internal messages but there's no way to influence that unless the speaker is speaker sincerely and transparently - that's part of why I know what Denise (just as an ex., there are many more), is so influential on me, even if I don't make the same decision.

Ok- now I have to figure out how to follow my own advice! 

Jill
Writes Like She Talks ( http://www.writeslikeshetalks.com )

miteegirl 5 pts

Private schools cost less than public schools?  Um, what?  Source please.  Public schools are free to students here.

Do you mean the cost of running some private schools is less than public schools? Again, please cite an example.  If that is occuring somewhere, I imagine it is because private schools pay teachers less than public schools pay (or that was my experience when I worked one year in a private school...and we received no benefits), and the fact that private schools don't have to pay for the staff to comply with the legislative, reporting and administrative requirements of public schools.  In fact, if I never have to fill out the extensive reporting requirements of No Child Left Behind and can invest that time in instructional design, I would be a VERY happy teacher.  That, added to the reporting requirements imposed by the state and CPS, adds a lot of work to an otherwise already packed schedule. 

Classroom time may end in the mid-afternoon, but classroom teachers then run any after school elective programs (because there aren't paid staff to do that).  Then meet with parents.  Then school officials.  And each other.  And complete reports.  Finally, after all of that, they get to prepare curriculum, materials, and other things that make classroom time more efficient, high quality and engaging. 

If they have families, um, that takes time too.  And possibly a commute.

So, yes, the administrative requirements, size and diversity of public
schools increase the cost of running them.  And the time spent working
there.  When private schools have extra money, they build a new gym and take field trips.  When public schools have extra money (pretty much never happens), they get to buy paper and pencils!  Or hire a teacher's assistant to help run a classroom of 35 kids with 4-5 special needs kids who are getting mainstreamed.  

It IS different for private school teachers and I have experienced both.

Maria Niles 5 pts

to bite -

Hasn't Barack been saying Washington is broken? Perhaps that's why he spent so much time on the campaign trail rather than in the Senate

Who has missed the most votes in the Senate while campaigning? John ( http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/110/se... ) (since we're apparently on a first name basis with the candidates). Perhaps he thinks by not voting it will reinforce his "maverick" claim.

I'm amused by the efforts of Republicans to attack Obama with arguments that are often worse for McCain and Palin. The more you show me that it's all you've got the more I want to go out and get fitted for a dress for an inauguration ball ;)

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queenesther 5 pts

i admire any woman in this day and age that has accomplished anything at all, irregardless of her political stance. but this vice presidential choice is ridiculous.

think about it: if mc cain wanted a woman on the ticket, he had many accomplished intelligent educated candidates to choose from -- candidates who have put years (and in come cases, decades) into their political careers, and have proven themselves on a national and international platform. any thinking republican knows who they are. elizabeth dole, for example -- BA Duke University, post-grad work at Oxford, MA from Harvard in education, Harvard Law graduate, worked under johnson and nixon. she's the only woman in washington, dc that's worked as a cabinet secretary for two federal departments (transportation and labor) under two presidents (reagan and bush). mrs. dole would have been a smart choice, someone that could realistically serve as vice president.

he could have picked secretary of state dr. condoleeza rice, put a black woman on the ticket and trumped them all!  i will argue that there is no female in politics today with (the exception of madeliene albright) that is more educated or accomplished than she is  --  BA political science Phi Beta Kappa, U of Denver, Masters in political science from the U of Notre Dame and then a PhD in political science from graduate school of international studies in denver at the ripe old age of 26 (!!!).  nevermind the fact that she was/is a professor at stanford, or that she's an accomplished classical pianist or that she speaks spanish, french, russian and german.   she was the first female, first african american, and the youngest ever to be appointed provost at stanford. and that ain't all.

now, that's vice presidential material.

who did mccain choose? the newly elected governor of alaska (only 20 months on the job), a state that's density in population ranks it as the 17th largest city in america (the school district in new york city handles more kids than the entire population of alaska); a former mayor of wasilla, a town with a population that's not as big as most college campuses; a self-described hockey mom of five, a former sportcaster and a failed beauty queen who by her own admission has no idea what a vice president does all day.  no one seems to be paying attention to the fact that she is pro-life, that she believes in teaching creationism in schools, and that she has zip foreign policy experience (has she ever been to a foreign country? and please don't say canada -- that parallels bush the younger with only mexico under his belt as the newly nonelected president) she also has a lifetime membership in the NRA.  (protecting yourself with a handgun is one thing, but why should civilians own uzis?)  and remember: at 72, mccain is the oldest candidate for presidency, ever. if something happens to him -- and yes, he has health issues -- she'll be the leader of the free world. yikes.

 she's a force to be reckoned with like thunder curdles milk.  clearly, it's going to take way more than a patriotic working mom to get us out of this mess.

i'm a lot of things but what i am not is a vagina american.  i've never voted with my my gender and i'm not about to start now. but i will tell you this: anyone who is all for this ticket deserves exactly what mccain and palin will turn this country into if they are elected: an arctic region covered with ice.  and if they are elected, i will be more than happy to suffer through their four years in office, just to watch the people who voted for them get exactly what they deserve.

BackyardConservative 5 pts

tho it sounds like a very pioneer woman kind of place

Chicago suburbs, used to be in the 10th, now in the 9th 

well if you're a parent paying it, I think it is significant. For the record, my kids went to public schools, but I think it is criminal that poor kids are stuck in the failed Chicago schools. I believe 40% of chicago teachers send their own kids to private schools, the system is so bad. 

It's interesting that in some countries in Europe, I know Italy for sure, parents can choose where to send their child. In Finland and Germany religion is taught in the public schools.

Jill Miller Zimon 5 pts

Anne - do you now live in Alaska, or have you ever? I re-read the original post - I may have crossed wires - where exactly do you vote?

Also - no - they don't pay twice.  They choose to live in a democracy that takes taxpayer dollars and gives them to all sorts of things that a lot of us don't support - and many things that we not only support but support us.

Please - that is quite the talking point, but it's also quite inaccurate. 

JillWrites Like She Talks ( http://www.writeslikeshetalks.com )

BackyardConservative 5 pts

 In Barack Obama's backyard.

A small point. Private and parochial school parents pay taxes too...for schools their kids do not attend.

In effect they pay twice.

I am sure all parents want a say in how their money is spent. Not to mention all taxpayers.

In Chicago many private schools are less expensive than the public schools, and deliver a better education. 

Online learning is becoming more prevalent, as is home schooling--by eco-conscious parents, parents of gifted children, as well as religious adherents. 

miteegirl 5 pts

Actually, I have seen an improvement in CPS (Chicago Public Schools) since the 1970's.  I wish I could say that there has been more.  CPS' enormous size (over 400,000 students), the socioeconomic status of its students (2/3rds from lower income families), and the diversity of its population (the students in my local public school speak 25 different languages at home) means that it is also an enormous challenge to manage.  The size of CPS' student population is larger than many American towns. 

This is significant because educational research shows that it is MUCH easier to obtain higher performance in smaller districts, schools and classrooms.  Size is one of our largest challenges.

Adding to this complexity are the long standing tensions between CPS administration and the teacher's union.  And there are faults on both sides.  I think more teachers should be evaluated on their classroom skills and held accountable/fired if they don't measure up, but the union makes this extremely difficult.  On the other hand, the administration does many things to make teachers' work more difficult and doesn't seem to support teachers very strongly.  So teachers feel pulled between parents, kids, principals, and administators with fewer resources and more complexity in their classrooms that more homogeneous suburban schools are blessed with.

Even with our size, diversity and complexity, we have a higher graduation rate than other school districts close to our size, including  Detroit, Baltimore, New York, Milwaukee, Cleveland, Los Angeles, Miami, Dallas, Denver and Houston.  We have a public high school in the Top 20 of the Greatest US Public High Schools as ranked by Newsweek (and no other school district our size does).  Lower performing schools are being weeded out and closed down while other schools are being reinvigorated and invested in.  

Do we still have problems?  Yes, a district of our and diversity size will always have problem, I imagine.  But we are working pretty hard on many different programs at many different schools in the district to address these.