Sexism and Society

You know, I don't have anything against women who don't show their feminine side, in fact many of my friends are very much the opposite of feminine, but the fact that I tried to highlight was that women who've had to compete against men for their successes have had to act like them and it isn't their fault, but of the society which doesn't give these women the even playing field. Most woman in any field , at least at first glance are underrated by men, be it physically or intellectually and it is this subconscious loss of degeneracy in the treatment of men and women that makes women work harder and be tougher and rougher.

I admire HRC a lot, in fact she was my choice for president. I understand that I brought her up in a negative context, but when I took her name, I never meant to condemn her, rather my intention was to exemplify my opinion.

I like your reply too, but as I told Sotah, each of us has one of our own :-).

Hey, well when I read your post, it makes a lot of sense, but I guess it is more an aspect of one's personal world view, nurtured in oneself by ones experiences in life.

But no, I don't spend on money and time on my appearance because of societal requirements, but because I like it. It might be seen as something that was gradually imprinted in my mind over time, but today that is something that just comes naturally to me.

Also when I say feminine, I mean beauty, and not outward beauty, but that which comes from within. Traits which are traditionally considered feminine can never be seen in the wrong light, at least for me they seem to be something I aspire to rather than something that is imposed upon me.

Also I don't have anything against women that don't wear their femininity on their sleeve, rather I just try to make the point that successful women are prone to lose their femininity because of society.

I have great respect for every single woman who is doing well for herself and facing struggles. Just as women at the top of the success ladder tend to be less feminine, so do women at the very bottom, its all because of the struggles that they face and in a man's world, when the going gets tough, well you have to toughen up. I have a shielded life throughout, and haven't had to face too many struggles, but I know that once I face the world, things will change drastically.

But like I said in the beginning, thats just my opinion, and yours has a very valid foundation to it.

Sotah captured my reaction pretty much exactly.

Isn't it sexist in and of itself to imply that HRC isn't a "good enough" example of a successful woman because she's not "feminine" enough for you? Are pretty women the role model we are striving for? Is it difficult to accept that some women simply aren't tall, thin and beautiful, might be more spare in the way they like to dress, might not have the youthful appearance of a Michelle Obama? Yes, Michelle Obama is beautiful, smart and a terrific role model for women.

Perhaps successful women that are hard are simply that way by nature. Rather than denigrate them for the innate personality they possess, let us applaud them for reaching the higher echelons of success.

I'm nearly six feet tall, have a deep voice, have short hair and sometimes I don't wear makeup. I more often than not wear jeans and t shirts to work, not because I'm trying to be a guy, but because I work in a warehouse and its just easier to dress that way. I make a very good salary and I support my children and myself on my income alone. Does the fact that I don't look like a pretty princess disqualify me from being a successful woman or a role model for my daughter?

Mary a/k/a BarnMaven blogs at http://www.barnmaven.typepad.com about single parenting, living with ADHD, too many animals to count and dealing with ADHD/Bipolar kids.

I get it all the time. I work in a tech-related field but as a designer and user, I'm not a programmer. However, because of being involved with and surrounded by tech most of my life, I can talk tech with the best of them. It always amuses me, the faces i get at Best Buy when I go in to buy something and ask them a hundred detailed questions, when the 20something pimply male answering my question was trying to avoid getting into the details. And because of it, I love to seek out the smart geek women who work at places like that because we talk tech to each other. And funny thing, when I wrote 'each' there, i accidentally wrote 'teach' - and I think there's a big aha there. Because when I work in technology, I use it to teach people things (my specialty is in building eLearning solutions.) And as a woman, I *totally* approach technology differently.

Another random example - I'm in the process right now of evaluating a number of elearning authoring tools. I have had conversations with a half-dozen salespeople (all men) at these different companies. One had trouble giving me the time of day, some are calling me regularly to find out the status of my tech purchase, and one gave a phenomenal sales pitch for his product. He didn't talk down to me, I ended up feeling like his product would be best in part because of the great sales pitch. The reality? His company's product is the HARDEST to use, the most obtuse, the least learnable. Yikes! I'm glad I've spent the time evaluating the software!!

At any rate - I think you've got some great points, and I think we need more women who rise to greatness. But then again, we women are really great at sitting on the sidelines and helping others rise to greatness, too. Is that, perhaps, as good a role as rising to greatness ourselves? It's worth considering...

I write on Suburban (In)sanity ( http://beckersmith.typepad.com/my_weblog/ ). I have two kids, two cats, a dog, a husband and a minivan. I live in the suburbs now and try to stay sane. Some days, I succeed.

Isn't the very notion that some women do not "exude" femininity sexist to begin with?

What is this magic femininity - why must I "exude" it.

Isn't it sexist to require women to spend extra money and time on their appearance in order to be labeled a famine.

Because for the life of me - I cannot ever figure out what people mean by "feminine," except conforming to social grooming expectations at best, and docility at worst.

I guess what your student is getting at is that we no longer see these prejudices out in the open as often, maybe yes this generation is better in this regard, but everyone knows that with each passing generation, values change and perhaps the next generation will be even more liberal in the same sense.

This comment notwithstanding, I guess it is extremely important to realize that latent prejudices can sometimes be just as bad, and even worse than those that are out in the open.

I'm a teacher (first year college students), and I'm always amazed to hear the strength of their conviction when they announce that sexism doesn't exist anymore.

In fact just yesterday a student said to me, "My generation [he's 18] just seems to be more open, more liberal, more accepting than any other that's come before. We don't have sexism, racism, homophobia... Not like older generations do."

Fascinating.

Thank you so much for the reply! I can relate so much to your post, its crazy how there is sense of equality, but it just doesn't seem to exist!

P.S. Loved your blog by the way!!

Wow. Great post from a woman who sounds pretty exceptional in her own rite. I just wrote about sexism (from Mad Men) and how it's not just then, but now, just subtle. This post is timely, sad, accurate, and somehow inspiring.

Kathykate (p/t copywriter, f/t mom)

Diary of a Return-to-Work Mom ( http://www.returntoworkmom.com/ )