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Sarcasm in San Fran :  www.sarcasminsanfran.blogspot.com   California woman who in undoubtably sarcastic and currently undergoin...
 
 
 
 

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Still Waiting ... to be Engaged!

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I consider myself a "Charlotte." (Yes, yet another analogy in relation to the Sex and the City characters. In my defense Season 6 has been rotating in my DVD player as of late to woo me to sleep, so deal with it!)

In many ways I consider myself a women's rights advocate; a hard-working individual who doesn't need assistance from a man, acknowledges the glass ceiling (especially in my field) but is adamant to breakthrough (while wearing a subtle but sexy pencil skirt, pink silk camisole and five-inch heels, of course). However, I am still traditional in many aspects of my life. Like Charlotte, I have such a strong desire to lead the "perfect" life. I want stability, protection, the white picket fence surrounding the ideal house filled with 1.5 children and one seemingly perfect dog.


Photo of Kristin Davis by the Rainforest Action Network.

I grew up believing that these things trickle into place once you find a hard-working, loving man to be your husband. This was taught to me by my grandmother, who would tell me "No" with a quietness and reserve unique to her personality before explaining that someday when I get married, my husband will buy me whatever I want. Obviously, I'm old enough now to realize she was just trying to prevent a tantrum in an aisle of Toys R Us. But, I still believe that the traditional view of achieving the American dream still lies out of reach simply because I continue to mark single on my taxes.

This realization became full-blown in my mind this week. The other evening, my boyfriend and I attended a black-tie event for a community fundraiser. It had been the first time in many months that we dressed up and spent the evening together without work or cell phone distractions. I felt like a couple again, not just a roommate or a best friend. During the cocktail hour, I supportingly stood by my boyfriend's side as he discussed business with his directors and managers. As I scanned the room, the crowd was mostly older adult (40 years old and above) couples. Politicians, lawyers, small-business owners, perhaps. I felt a twinge of jealousy for these women; they were seemingly happy, successful and married.

This wasn't the first evening that I have longed to be married. This has been on-going for the past two years of my four-year relationship, to be honest. I have always known that I wanted to spend the rest of my life with my boyfriend. But that evening was the first time I felt jealousy towards another couple, for the committment they had and the one I lacked.

The topic of marriage has been easily discussed in my relationship and agreed upon, but a timeline has never been outlined. We both agree that this is where we are headed. So, I ask, why the wait?

My traditional values tell me I must wait until the man courts me, until the man asks me to be his girlfriend, until the man asks me to marry him. Why in the heck does the man get to make all the decisions?! When the tables are turned, whenever women make the move they are viewed as such unpleasant adjectives as: desperate, needy, insecure, clingy and domineering. Society has taught us that men make these decisions, and we should all be so lucky for one of these wonderful men to ask for our hand in marriage.

While I strive to break the glass window in the corporate world, I am held down by the glass window of my relationship without much fight. I am not alone. As often as women fight for equality and proposing to a man becomes more and more common, there are still many more of us waiting for the man to decide our future.

I for one could never imagine the shame I would feel while telling the story of the time I had to ask my husband to marry me because he wouldn't ask me himself. Perhaps, this feeling is exactly what is allowing the men to continue to dictate our relationships. If only they knew the power they held... well, perhaps they already do.

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Overland 5 pts

I really love your blog on this issue. In my own experiences I've always been the one to ask men on dates & at first as early as 16yrs old. lol I thought "why do men make it such a big deal to ask women out" & now a midsingle "marriage".. And then it dawn on me they are left to make these choices in society. Because it gives them "men" as sense of purpose & they need validation that they conquoered something. So though I too wouldn't want to tell my future children that I asked their father to marry me. Instead of vice vesa, I'm coming to learn that patience is a virture. And the right man will come along & see what I'm worth & ask me to marry. If you don't find this in your current boyfriend. I hope you find the courage to find it in a new one that sees marriage & it's importance as much as you do. Starting over isn't ever easy esp if you've been together this long. And in no means would I want to have my opinions break up a relationship. But there comes a point when issues like "marriage" can not afford fence sitters & the choice must be made & done to gain more happiness. And no longer will checking single on tax forms will bring about the greatest joy. Because now you'd be married. Good luck :) Sincerely Ova

http://overland23.blogspot.com/

eleanore 10 pts

The thing is (per comment, below) the ball is already in his court. And he's playing it just the way he wants. Perhaps you should take charge of the situation; I think the ball needs to be in your court.

Ever consider that maybe he's not the man for you?

-The Spinsterlicious Life

BarnMaven 5 pts

Here's the thing: If you choose to buy into the patriarchal notion that a man must ask a woman to marry him, you may be waiting a while.

Consider that you might also have a discussion with him about the subject that does not, in fact, include you asking him to marry you. It might go something like this:

"I would like to talk about our relationship. We've both agreed that we want to be married someday, but we've been vague about when someday might be. I am ready to make that commitment to you and I would like to know your thoughts on when you might be ready to make that formal commitment to me."

Boom Ball in his court.

These are things that healthy couples need to be able to talk about honestly. Share your feelings with him.

miss_sarcasm 5 pts

BarnMaven Love it! Thanks BarnMaven for an example of how to approach the conversation and put the ball in his court.

little 5 pts

i have just 1 thing to say...alrighty. that is also my reasoning for why we should be courted and not be the courter.

love, little.

Al_Pal 5 pts

Hmm. There are some of us for whom a long time isn't a problem...my man asked me early on in our relationship--too early for me to be sure, so I said Maybe--twice!

We joked for a long time that it would be my turn to ask next time, and I was prepared to do it, but when we did have The Conversation, it ended up with us talking about it, then a Formal Proposal by him.

Time elapsed: nearly 8 years from first date to official engagement, and it has been over two years since that happened; 'finally' getting married this Autumn, after a year of Real Planning. N.B., nearly three years after the first date I split because it seemed our lives were headed on truly different paths--but we were happier together than apart, and are more solid and in-love now than ever.

I was raised to thumb my nose at tradition, and do things for myself, and not rely on a man, so I'm sure that's at play here, as well. ;p

BlondieChicago 12 pts

Thanks for stopping by my blog! You seem to have a very carefree spirit--I adopted more of that in my next relationship after the big breakup, but I wish I could be moreso!! Al_Pal

miss_sarcasm 5 pts

Wow. When I set up my account here, just as an outlet for me to journal, I didn't expect to sign on and find that so many people read what I wrote and even felt inclined to comment. Thank you!

Many of you are right. I may not be the one. He may never be ready. Four years is too long to wait. Maybe I should suck it up and ask him (don't count on that!).

I don't really know how to respond, although I appreciate the comments. I will say that I do have control over my own life, I can take care of myself without a man around to buy me whatever I want! But, what I was trying to convey was that due to my traditional values, theoretically my boyfriend dictates my future (I'd like to think I can buy the house, but I want the husband in it!) because he gets to choose when my life starts as wife, not girlfriend. Last week I thought, how unfair this is! Which is why I wrote this. It's hard to tell the whole story in a few paragraphs. This blog was an example of my frustration last week and my desire to get married, to be a wife. If I were telling the whole story, I wouldn't even know where to begin! But, I think this blog mostly highlighted the fact that my boyfriend and I should touch base again... I know what I want.

I'll keep you all updated =)

BlondieChicago 12 pts

Yes, we're listening!! (insert Jaws music) Thank you for sharing your story with us. That's what blogging is all about. There is no right or wrong, just our thoughts and feelings. All bloggers know that there is always "more" behind the scenes. Your post hit a nerve with many of us--in a good way! I look forward to hearing more as time goes by. miss_sarcasm

empathetic 5 pts

This is a personal "irk" or pet peeve of mine. I think it's the last remaining vestige of patriarchy in modern western culture to have any man do the asking. Sit down, discuss it and decide what it means to both of you and work toward it as a common goal. No asking required - there's no ownership, just a renewed commitment.

Jane Miller 12 pts

Ask him. Be prepared for him to say no. Otherwise, why is he dragging his heels? And if he does, then you're better off without him given that he has apparently been stringing you along. If he's offended that you did the ask, too bad. Do you want a life where you have to constantly bend so that he can fulfill his manly expectations of himself.

XpatAdventures 5 pts

Ugh, I hear you! I have had the same ideas, upbringing and assumptions, too... basically the same "Map of the World." Raised by a Southern, traditional, accountant father, I always thought there was an order to things, a partnering, a pairing that made sense and would happen naturally somehow. Then I spent my entire 20s in Grad School, my entire 30s married... only to find myself 41, divorced and alone in a foreign country with absolutely *nothing* but my own wits and degree. No husband has invested or saved on my behalf, I didn't get a house in a divorce... so I would recommend whether you marry or not, put all the old ideas aside and take care of yourself. Make a life you want, let him know what you want. That's all you can do. The rules seem to have changed somewhere along the way, all bets are off. We have to take care of ourselves. I for one never intended to be responsible for everything: the home & dog & income & everything. Here we are... good luck!

Meredith Snyder 5 pts

If you and your boyfriend have already discussed and agreed upon marriage, why not now discuss the timeline...? Isn't open expression of needs and good communication necessary in a relationship? Does it concern anyone else that you mentioned not wanting to propose because "he wouldn't ask me himself"? Are you sure this is what he, and you, really want? Will you forever be waiting on this man to plot out your life?

This blog raised a lot of questions in my mind. I agree it's frustrating that men seem to hold the power in this arena, and if you don't want to propose that's your own choice, but you certainly have the ability and the right to sit down and talk this through with your boyfriend. Because not to be harsh, but this definitely sounds like a discussion you should be having with him, not with a blog post!

lauriewrites 14 pts

There is nothing to be ashamed of in stating your desires for how you want the rest of your life to play out. Nothing.

This is one situation where I have painful experience. I waited for the long-term boyfriend to propose. I waited. And waited. And waited. And one day he finally got the nerve to pursue what had been his real dream, all along, and embarked on the life that he wanted that did not include me. Not only was I heartbroken, but I was so angry at myself for allowing five years of my life to elapse with someone else driving the metaphorical car. So angry. Sure, I was enraged with him for dragging it out, but when it came down to it, I had only myself to blame. I was in charge of my life and I abdicated that waiting for another person to meet my most important needs and wishes for my future. It was a very, very bad call.

If I had it to do over again, I would be as honest as possible, especially when it was difficult. I would state my expectations and desires as clearly as possible, and when I finally felt like you are feeling now (because I felt that way, on many occasions) I would let him know that we were at the point where a definitive decision and action has to be made and taken, or the relationship would have to end.

I was deeply in love with this man. I am still not sure I could have done it, but I really needed to, years before the end of the line.

It's scary and it feels weird, but there are a few things you risk if you don't do it. One, you risk a relationship for the rest of your life where he always sets the tone and calls the shots, because if he got to do it in arguably the most important decision? Why can't he do it in everything else? Two, you spend who knows how much longer waiting for someone whose ultimate aim, no matter what he says, may not be the same as yours. And that, in the end, is the worst case scenario.

It's also possible, if you finally assert yourself, that you will get exactly what you want and live as happily as is humanly possible ever after. Good luck!

(So sorry if this sounds like jerky advice. Everyone is different and this is just my opinion, but it is hard won. So I hope for the best for you, and that if he is the guy you see yourself with for the long haul, that he gets that too and acts accordingly. :))

maranda 10 pts

On the flip side, if you already know you want to spend the rest of your life with him, what does it matter if you're married or not? Can't you be equally happy and committed to each other without that piece of paper?

Personally I think of marriage as more of a religious thing, and have never felt the need to be married. I think a promise is a promise, and it's just as valuable whether you say it in front of other people or not.

I've been happily un-married for 7 years, with two kids. I think my vow is just as binding, and I would even say more meaningful, because I didn't need to pay a witness to hold me to it.

If you need marriage to be happy, he needs to be accepting to that. However I have to wonder if there's something else lacking that is making you focus on marriage?

MoreThanMommy 7 pts

My husband was dragging his feet a bit and I told him that I wanted to get married and have kids in the near future (I was 32 at the time). I suggested that if that was what he wanted, soon would be good, and if not he should let me go so I could start to move on. I wouldn't threaten, push him away or play games. If you truly want to spend the rest of your life with this person, start it out with respect and honesty. Sure, if you "take a break" he might see what he's missing, but he might also lose trust and a sense of security. Also, as difficult as it might be, set an internal timeline for yourself. If you've been honest with him and he still doesn't step up to the plate, be prepared to walk away. Your lives just may not be compatible over the long haul.

jewelsadam 5 pts

Great post! I think 4 years is way too long to NOT propose to a woman. It's an insult. Especially after the age of 30. Makes me think a man is waiting around to see what his options are.

If I were you I wouldn't give an ultimatum necessarily, but I'd definitely say I'd give him a scare... and perhaps go on a break. Men get it. When they have time on their own to think they realize what they're losing. Either come back to seal the deal or don't come back at all. That's probably how a man would handle a business deal, so why shouldn't a woman handle her love life this way?

BlondieChicago 12 pts

I enjoyed your post so much that I wrote a response post on my own blog: http://talesfromclarkstreet.blogspot.com/2011/09/u...

I completely understand the room and the marrieds and the nice suit and all of that. It's intoxicating, no?

Conversation from Facebook

Lauren Barker
Lauren Barker

This article bothers me. I just don't understand why a woman should feel "personal shame" because she asks for what she wants! My husband and I dated for 7 years before we ever got married, and lived together for 6 of those 7 years. For a good part of that time, he wasn't sure if he wanted to be married - not to me, but to anyone. We knew we wanted to be together, and just stayed content with that for a while. Around 6 years in, I told him clearly that I was ready to be married, and that I'd like for him to consider it - I didn't attack him, I didn't try to corner him into it, and I didn't beat around the bush in passive aggressive terms. A couple of months later, he proposed, and today we are happily married with an amazing little boy.

Our culture puts such undue emphasis on romance and the fairy tale of some valiant man coming to "save" you from your single-dom. This may sound harsh, but I think if you are waiting around for someone else to make your decisions for you, and then lamenting your situation, you really have no one to blame but yourself. Your spouse should be a partner - not someone on whom you depend to "call the shots." It seems if that is your expectation, your marriage is being set up to fail before it even begins.

Karina Ambartsoumian
Karina Ambartsoumian

Who cares if there is a ring on it or a wedding? Why are we supporting an industry that targets women to spend money!! 4 years an waiting? Give me a break.

Rebecca Mongrain
Rebecca Mongrain

My husband took quite awhile to propose to me. I reminded him every six months that I was ready to be married. He would tell me that he was moving in that direction but to give him time. I did and it all worked out. I now have the best husband ever.

Karen Smith
Karen Smith

I met my husband in college, he was 22, I was 21. We married after a torturous turn at a long-distance relationship while we both got graduate degrees. We had a moment of clarity that I think helped us solidify our intent to marry, then follow it up with the actual steps necessary (in our western society) to do so. (The moment of clarity was a plan crash between the two cities we lived in, when we realized it could have been one of us on the plane...) We were young and stupid, did we know better, perhaps not. But the key thing here was it was *we* and *us*.

Talk to him. Lay it out. Marriage is important to you. If it isn't to him, if he's satisfied with the status quo, are you really meant to be together? Is he afraid of something changing? What role do you play in reassuring him about his fears? A relationship includes each of the people giving to the other something they need. It doesn't always end up being EVERYTHING they need, it doesn't always include a sacrifice, but it does include the two recognizing needs in each other and doing their best to meet them. Good luck to you in furthering this conversation.

Alex Dixon
Alex Dixon

Here's what strikes me. Yes, the other people are married, but are they happily married? How does she know? She isn't living that marriage? It's better to be single (or coupled) and happy than married and miserable (or worse.) Her putting pressure on him isn't going to do either of them any favors. He'll propose because he feels obligated, not because he actually loves her or wants to be with her. Maybe she should have a conversation about "okay, really, really, really, where are we?" And be prepared to hear "I don't know" She shouldn't put her life on hold for him, so it's important to get information. Then it's up to her to act on that information. She can only control herself, she cannot control him and to try and do so is a recipe for disaster.

Angie Rapids
Angie Rapids

After 4 yrs what is he waiting for? Men get comfortable with the status quo and as long as the milk is free they won't buy it. 4 yrs is the alarm bell. Maybe he isn't really in the same place she is. For me it would be a time of fish or cut bait. Life is too short to stand around waiting on a marriage to begin.

Melissa Gardner
Melissa Gardner

I am a firm believer of when you know, you know and there is no reason to wait. I waited for an ex for 3 years. He kept saying he wanted to marry me but did nothing about it. I finally couldn't take it anymore because I was incredibly unhappy (for several reasons, not just that he wouldn't propose). Shortly after ending that relationship, I met my husband, who proposed to me 7 months after we started dating. When you know, you know, and in my opinion there really is no good reason to wait. 4 years is a long time to be waiting.

Mary Bradley McCauley
Mary Bradley McCauley

I've been writing a What Would You Do column on Gather. Would you like me to present this over there? I got almost 100 comments on one and 74 on another.

Suzanne Reardon-Mulhall
Suzanne Reardon-Mulhall

The irony is that the second time around, I had a ring on my finger pretty darn quickly-he couldn't wait to call me his wife. That spoke volumes.

Natalie Parker
Natalie Parker

They should have agreed on a timeline. If they are in the position to talk about marriage openly, then they should at least talk about timing. We didn't set a date, but we agreed we wanted to get married and decided around what season and what year by which we wanted to be married.

Suzanne Reardon-Mulhall
Suzanne Reardon-Mulhall

I was in her shoes. Dated for 4 years, wanted desperately to be married. I went out of town for a week, basically telling him 'fish or cut bait'. He came running for me 3 days later. We married. Then four years later, he started a relationship with a coworker and left.

I'm not saying that's what happens to everyone, but you have to question the underlying cause if he hasn't made the next step. Also, why are you afraid to ask? Are you afraid he will say no and leave? If so, then he wasn't the one.

J Lindsey Morgan
J Lindsey Morgan

HOLY COW!! 4 years is WAY too long! That would be completely unacceptable to me! I with my husband 3 years before we got married, but, once we decided that we were going to spend the rest of our lives together, he got me a ring and we set a date! She may know she wants to spend the rest of her life with him, but I wonder if he honestly feels the same way about her. Every man I'm friends with has told me that if a girl is 'the one' they know it as quickly as the women do and they aren't going to drag it out for 4 years! Its one thing to want to be sure, but its another to get comfortable at the expense of someone who wants a husband.

BlogHer
BlogHer

Laurie White I think you can do it. You're a smart, compassionate woman. - Denise

Laurie White
Laurie White

I'm afraid to comment on this, Denise.