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That's So Gay

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How is it, that phrases like "that's so gay," or "don't be so gay" are still thriving in teen vernacular? Why is it socially acceptable to say such things? How can so many people defend the usage of such words as harmless? Why don't more people find it offensive? And where are these kids' parents?

Now I'll admit, I didn't used to think "that's so gay" was that big of a deal. It seemed innocuous enough, nothing to get bent out of shape about. Until, that is, I heard my teenage niece use it. Then it didn't really feel so harmless anymore. It really shocked me actually. Both that she said it, and how I reacted to it. Actually what she did was call someone gay, as an insult. But why should I have expected her to be any different from any other teen? They don't see anything wrong it. And apparently, no one is telling them otherwise.

The argument is that "that's so gay," and the likes, just mean lame or stupid. Not homosexual. As in, "I can't believe your parents won't let you go to the party. That's so gay." Clearly, the meaning is that the parents are lame, not that they are actually a same-sex couple. The problem is, these phrases are also used to point out gay stereotypes as insults. As in, "I can't believe he wore a pink shirt. Dude that's so gay." Same phrase. Different meaning. Both intended to have a negative connotation.

The problem is, how and where, does the mind draw the line between what's a "harmless" use of a phrase with the word gay, and what's not? If it's okay to say "that's so gay" in response to guy wearing a pink shirt, then isn't also okay to say "that's so faggy?" And why stop there? Why not just call someone gay? Meaning homosexual, used an insult. Why does it have power as an insult? And when it's okay to call people gay as an insult, then where does it end? A few weeks ago there was a twitter tending topic #uknowhowiknowuregay. Do you really think that was all good natured?

I've come to the conclusion that "harmless" phrases like "that's so gay," are not harmless. In fact, they are what helps fuel the fire for homophobia to continue to exist, and remain socially acceptable in our culture. I don't know how to solve the problem other than to let the people who I know, know it's not cool to say things like "that's so gay." The Gay, Lesbian and Straight Education Network(GLSEN) has put together the Think B4 You Speak campaign. Currently, they have three posters:

That's so "jock who can complete a pass but not a sentence."
That's so "cheerleader who like can't like say smart stuff."
That's so "gamer guy who has more videogames than friends."

and 3 television ads which can be seen at ThinkB4YouSpeak.com. I love Wanda Sykes, but the commercial with the 2 cashiers is my favorite.

One thing I found interesting, is that much of the blog response to the Think B4 You Speak campaign, came from the gaming world. More specifically, the on-line gaming world. From what I gather, the name calling with homosexual reference can get pretty explicit and highly offensive.

Will the ads work? Eh? They probably won't have too much impact on he kids. I think the audience we need to reach are the adults who are letting this kind of talk go on around them; parents, teachers, coaches...We need to step up and say something to these kids to let them know that it's not OK. Am I wrong?

See what others have blogged about this:
Twitter Trending Topic #uknowhowiknowuregay Provides Unreliable Tips for Identifying Homosexuals, by Riese and Tinkerbell at Autostraddle
Homophobic Trends and Twitter Wars, by Firebolt at The Freezing Flames
Think before you speak, by Z at It's the Thought that Counts
That's So Gay, by Rebecca at The Thang Blog
'Think B4 You Speak' Gets Gamers Arguing, by Tracy V Wilson at How Stuff Works

Zoe is a BlogHer Contributing Editor (Life-GLBT). She also blogs her life most ordinary at gaymo.

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Nordette Adams 6 pts

I FEEL PRETTY

MARIA 
I feel pretty, 
Oh, so pretty, 
I feel pretty, and witty and gay, 
And I pity 
Any girl who isn’t me today. 

http://www.westsidestory.com/site/level2/lyrics/pr...

Nordette Adams ( http://www.bookotopia.com ) is a BlogHer CE ( http://www.blogher.com/haystackprofile/viewprofile... ) & you can find her other stuff through Her 411 ( http://her411.com ).

pookielocks 5 pts

i'm a theatre gal and have a lot of gay friends. i do from time to time say "that's so gay" meaning "that's so dumb" which i picked up from middle school. habits are hard to break. i try really hard not to say it.

www.shebecameabutterfly.net ( http://www.shebecameabutterfly.net/ ) and www.msmodern.com ( http://www.msmodern.com/ ) and www.taking-back-control.com ( http://www.taking-back-control.com )

pookielocks 5 pts

i still want to play Nellie!

www.shebecameabutterfly.net ( http://www.shebecameabutterfly.net/ ) and www.msmodern.com ( http://www.msmodern.com/ ) and www.taking-back-control.com ( http://www.taking-back-control.com )

no_I_am_zoe 5 pts

Wow!  What a great discussion.  I've been mulling over all that's been said here, and I'm sorry that I haven't been able, and still don't have the time to join in conversation.  I'll be back.

ebyrdstarr 5 pts

One of my biggest pet peeves is people who sanctimoniously deride all "political correctness" as just people being overly-sensitive.  What is so wrong with taking a few minutes to think about the words you choose to use? 

I used to use the term "gypped" all the time until I really thought about its origin.  Once I realized the term refered to gypsies and perpetuated a very unflattering stereotype of that culture, I made a conscious effort to remove that term from my vocabulary.  Instead, I now say "ripped off".  No one asked me to stop using that term, but I decided I didn't want to use a negative term that referred to a specific cultural group.  Is this "political correctness" run amok?  Or is it just being a little thoughtful and considerate?  I think it's the second and I think it's a good thing.

Oh, and freedom of speech really has no application here.  There's no governmental action.  That's another one of my pet peeves.

Preaching to the Choir ( http://rantsofapublicdefender.blogspot.com/ )

CelluloidGeek 5 pts

I agree! I feel the exact same way about 'that's retarded'. It's all completely offensive. And I wish more mini PSAs would come out of it like the one Hillary Duff did.

ebyrdstarr 5 pts

Part of how we treat other people is how we talk about them.  We don't get to use hurtful words and phrases and then claim we haven't done anything hurtful.  We all know that words are powerful.  The reason we were all taught the phrase "sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me" is because words do, in fact, hurt.

Choosing what words you use is an action.  And putting a little thought into the words and phrases we use, actively choosing not to use words that we know cause offense, is a big action we can take towards treating people better.  If you know that the phrase "that's so gay" causes offense to people and you still choose to use it, that's an action on your part.  And it's a hurtful action because it's willfully disregarding the offense you know it's causing.

Preaching to the Choir ( http://rantsofapublicdefender.blogspot.com/ )

mashadutoit 5 pts

And I'm not sure I'm going to be able to articulate this -

You can use the word lame like this: "the horse is lame in its hind foot".  Which means the foot is hurt, weak or damaged.  

People can be called lame if we feel they are damaged, which may or may not be insulting. Is it similar to calling somebody "cripple" which is, these days, insulting?

If you say something is lame, does that mean "it is weak or damaged" or does it mean "it is like a weak or damaged person?"

Would you say that one could call a person "lame" in the same way that
one would call them "gay" - that it is in and of itself not neccesarily a judgemental term?  Gay has been reclaimed mostly to not be and offensive term in itself.  Is lame such a word?  Or is it offensive like, for example, "cripple" or "retard"?

My gut feeling is that while I could understand if somebody felt offended by this usage, it is not as pointedly offensive as "how gay."  But of course that is my personal interpretation.

mashadutoit 5 pts

Never thought about it that way.

Erin White 5 pts

... Liz, I think you just insulted "suckers" everywhere.

KIDDING!  I'M KIDDING!

;-)

Erin

My Mobile Adventures *~*~* ( http://MyMobileAdventures.com ) - Mobile/photo blog | @BellTinkR

The Single Rider ( http://TheSingleRider.com ) - The fine line between "alone" and "free" | @TheSingleRider

Erin White 5 pts

... a cliche coming true!"

Sorry, I played Nellie Forbush at some point, and could not help bursting into song! :)

Erin

My Mobile Adventures *~*~* ( http://MyMobileAdventures.com ) - Mobile/photo blog | @BellTinkR

The Single Rider ( http://TheSingleRider.com ) - The fine line between "alone" and "free" | @TheSingleRider

Liz Henry 5 pts

Here's me being lame in about 1992.

( http://www.flickr.com/photos/lizhenry/505384292/ )

Now that's lame.

-----------------

Liz Henry ( http://www.blogher.com/haystackprofile/viewprofile... )

Composite: Tech & Poetics ( http://liz-henry.blogspot.com/ )

lizzard@bookmaniac.net

Liz Henry 5 pts

I'm laughing a bit ruefully that in the midst of this discussion everyone thinks it's fine to say "lame".  Hello.   Not okay any more than saying something is "gay" or "retarded".

http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2009/06/16/w... ( http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2009/06/16/w... )

"But even accepting that impairment to mobility is itself a sucky thing,
MAYBE DISABLED PEOPLE DO NOT APPRECIATE BEING THE CULTURAL GO-TO FOR
THINGS THAT SUCK."

-----------------

Liz Henry ( http://www.blogher.com/haystackprofile/viewprofile... )

Composite: Tech & Poetics ( http://liz-henry.blogspot.com/ )

lizzard@bookmaniac.net

miss_merritt 5 pts

I really think we need to stop getting all up in arms over other people's political correctness. If we all stopped saying things that MIGHT offend someone, then we'd never talk to anyone. Where do you draw the line? Can we say, "that's so stupid"? It might offend stupid people. Can we say, "that's so dumb?" We might offend blind, deaf and mute people, who historically have called "dumb".

I just think that maybe instead of worring about "that's so gay" or "that's so retarded" (both of which I say), perhaps we should look at the bigger picture. How do we treat our fellow human beings? We wouldn't dare say anything deemed politically correct and look down at someone says "that's so gay", yet we refuse to show empathy, compassion or humanity to so many. We see a homeless person on the street and look away. We see an injustice (and we see them all the time, all day, every day) and we do nothing. I'm just saying that maybe instead of worrying about what other people are saying we start worrying about our own actions. If we really want to be politically correct, perhaps we should start taking care of our fellow man instead of just talking the talk.

To be clear, this is a general comment. Not directed at any one person, either the author of the post or any commentor. It's an observation about society in general. And I've just proved my own point. I have to make a disclaimer about my comments because they might offend someone, even though I didn't name call or get nasty because too often people who live in glass houses DO throw stones.

Merritt
Miss Merrittocracy ( http://www.missmerrittocracy.com )

Gleegarden 5 pts

That phrase pains me very much. And it is still heard because people's parents and adults are still using it! Sad, but true. I hear it way too often. Not sure what to say when people say something is 'gay'.

And sadly, I used to use it too, but it has been about 15 years (no kidding) since I was slapped in the face with the realization that it is offensive and stopped cold turkey.

I agree that people do take certain things way too seriously and get offended over things that they should just chill about, but this is a hot button issue for me.

Another confession...I am working to rid the 'retarded' from my vocab. Also incredibly offensive. I think I said it for the last time the other day, and I am happy about that. It took me way too long.

Moriah
gleegarden.com

Kalyn Denny 5 pts

I do hear people, even adults say "That's retarded" and it makes me shudder.

Kalyn Denny
Kalyn's Kitchen ( http://kalynskitchen.blogspot.com )

Kalyn Denny 5 pts

The fact is "that's so gay" is not a complimentary phrase.  It's meant to indicate that something is dumb or odd or lame.  To use the name associated with a particular group of people in a derogatory manner is not acceptable.  Period.  End. 

When I was teaching I used to hear this from students, and always informed them that it was not acceptable.  In our school that sort of remark was classified under the category of "put-downs" and we had a zero-tolerance policy for it.  But I was rather astounded when my 30 year old contractor used the phrase recently.  And yes, I did let him know it was not appropriate. 

Kalyn Denny
Kalyn's Kitchen ( http://kalynskitchen.blogspot.com )

Flightkeeper 5 pts

I miss using the word gay as in "bright and shiny and gay"  (I think that's a line from a song I'm in Love in South Pacific.

 (My blogs are http://flightkeeper.blogspot.com and http://cutefuncool.blogspot.com)

amistevens1 5 pts

I think there's a lot to be said about taking things too personally. People are offended too easily these days.

If someone says "that's Gay" you know they don't mean it to be derogatory towards homosexual people. It's about the intention behind the words and the context of use, not the words themselves that give them meaning.

People are very over-sensitive about political correctness - even more so in recent years - and that's one of MY biggest pet peeves.

Pretty soon we won't even be able to speak without offending someone somewhere.

If I do offend someone I will ALWAYS apologise and explain that it was not my intention - but surely freedom of speech includes the ability to choose my own words and turn of phrase just as much as the content of what I say.

BTW: I'm Irish, however I don't get offended when the word Pikey gets used as a derogatory remark - (which it does... regularly) but then again I'm not as sanctimonious as a lot of people.

creepyed 5 pts

Great post!  I love the the commercials!

I used to say this when I was younger.  In high school (I just graduated college this past May), I realized it correct word to use when I actually wanted to use something like ridiculous or dumb and I started to realize it could be very hurtful.  So, I stopped saying it.  I called all my friends out when they used it too.  After they said it, I would always ask if the topic was happy and light or if it had a sexual orientation that was relevant to the conversation.  Pretty soon my friends were saying it less and less.  Now when I hear it from someone, it sounds so ignorant and rude.  I can't believe I used to say things were gay!

Have a great day,

Ed

onetruecathal 5 pts

One of my best friends is gay, and he does find this insulting.

My guess is this won't last too much longer; society is moving along and adapting to the "realisation" that being Gay isn't wrong or even unusual, and this will filter down to teens eventually. Just noticing how much earlier people seem to come out of the closet nowadays has me thinking "Gay" will be fairly mainstream in another 5-10 years.

Erin White 5 pts

I'm fascinated by the morphing of words from one meaning to another over the years.

I remember in kindergarten, which for me was 1965-1966, we used to sing a ring-around-the-rosy type song - "Bluebird, bluebird, happy and gay; bluebird, bluebird, fly away...".  Clearly, no one was calling the bird a homosexual in that song, but somehow the word has changed meaning since then. 

And now it looks like it is changing yet again.  I'd love to be able to trace the path of things like this and find out who first thought of it and how it caught on.  The mysteries of etymology!

Erin

My Mobile Adventures *~*~* ( http://MyMobileAdventures.com ) - Mobile/photo blog | @BellTinkR

The Single Rider ( http://TheSingleRider.com ) - The fine line between "alone" and "free" | @TheSingleRider

Karen Walrond 5 pts

In fact, this is one of my biggest pet peeves of all time.  Right up there with "That's so retarded." 

I'm even feeling a bit of anger just typing this!

Thanks for writing this.  Great post.

---

Karen Walrond is a writer and photographer in Houston, Texas. Read/See more of her life at www.chookooloonks.com ( http://www.chookooloonks.com )

mamabiz 5 pts

Same goes with "lame."  You know, I'm just maybe too picky.  ;-)

http://www.womanist-musings.com/2009/08/its-not-ju...

raisedqueer 5 pts

In my experience, I've never heard that phrase used in a specific way to slam homosexuals. I'm not saying it isn't disrespectful or thoughtless because it could be interpreted as such.  I just don't think that kids say it to be hateful.  Instead of saying "That's ridiculous" or "You're ridiculous" they say "That's Gay" or "You're Gay".

I'm not saying that it's right or wrong, but I'm more interested in the emotions behind words. 

http://raisedqueer.squarespace.com ( http://raisedqueer.squarespace.com/ )

mashadutoit 5 pts

In the comunity where I'm living at the moment, which is very much Cape Coloured, there is an expression "gayerig" which means something like "edgy, clever, witty, showy" but with a gay edge to it - something like a witty, sharp tongued drag queen,  I suppose.

People might chant "we are gayerig" in triumph after winning a talent show, for example.

But back on topice - I also dont like that "so gay" . It has a sour, mocking smell to it.

*edit -added later* - I'm not sure one can divorce a word from its context and just say "it does not mean homosexual, so that's ok then". Which is what that campaign is trying to point out.

Would you be comfortable with someboday saying "that's so female" when they clearly mean "that's so lame"? Even if somebody said "But I dont mean to refer to women, in this sentence, "female" means "lame". So that's OK then?

BarbD 5 pts

My son used to say this in high school, usually when we were clothes shopping.  I called him on it every time, but I never sensed that my explanation about why it was cruel reached him.  Despite the fact that two of my closest friends (whom he's known since he was about 11) are a lesbian couple.  To him calling something gay and being gay were distinctive, not related. I wanted him to know I didn't get the distinction, and that in calling something he disliked "gay," he was being completely insensitive, even cruel. 

The ads on ThinkB4YouSpeak were really good -- an excellent way to begin erasing the distinction my son perceived (and which I expect a lot of other teens share). While it may not be the audience who gets the most out of the ads (agree parents and school personnel are a more likely target), it would be interesting to see whether schools with active GLBT communities (like my son's school) could build upon it to help with their straight peers.

Barb
The Middle Way ( http://barberra.typepad.com/the_middle_way/ )