Transcript of Podcast: Interview with Eleanor Smeal

BlogHer Interview with Eleanor Smeal, President of the Feminist Majority Foundation

Joanne: Hi, I'm Joanne Bamberger, BlogHer Contributing Editor for Politics & News at BlogHer and my personal political blog where you can find me is called “PunditMom.” I’d like to welcome you to our podcast this afternoon. I have the honor of interviewing Eleanor Smeal, the president of the Feminist Majority, a group that advocates for a variety of women’s issues including women’s equality, reproductive rights and health issues, as well as for rights for all women around the world. She’s one of the most notable leaders of our feminist movement and she is also a former president of NOW, the National Organization for Women. Ellie, thank you so much for joining us today.

Ellie: Oh, it’s great to do so.

Joanne: So the first thing I wanted to ask you and the very timely reason for having you here today is that the Feminist Majority and NOW just issued a press release announcing that you were jointly endorsing New York Congresswoman Carolyn Maloney as your choice and the choice you would like to see to fill Hillary Clinton’s Senate seat for New York. So I wanted to find out why you did that and why you felt it was necessary to make such an endorsement.

Ellie: Well it’s unusual for us to do an endorsement, you know, and the special occasions where you need appointments, but we thought that Senator Clinton had occupied such a neat and unique role, certainly a worldwide advocate for women, and also there’s also only 16 women without her in Congress. So we wanted to make sure that this seat would go to a woman’s rights leader who has proven to be a women’s rights leader and looking at New York which is one of the strongest areas in the whole country and world for women’s rights, we thought that Carolyn Maloney would be perfect ‘cause she’s been an advocate for women in the House, she’s been in the House 16 years.

She has extensive – she’s shown over and over again her creativity, her determination, her tenacity in fighting for women’s rights. She has passed a host of bills in many different areas, both national and global, with both national and global importance for women, and she’s on a Chair of Finance Committee so essentially in this economic crisis, we thought she would be perfect.

Joanne: Can you give us a couple of examples of some of the legislation that she’s worked on over the years that had specific and particular significance for women?

Ellie: Sure, she led the fight to make sure that DNA evidence kits are processed and passed the Debbie Smith Bill. She, when no one almost would listen to us on the whole issue of the Taliban and its treatment of women, she helped pass the Afghan Women’s Empowerment Act. This is before – or it was in the time when it didn’t have the attention it does have now; it was before 9/11. And she’s been a consistent fighter for Afghan women but also for International Family Planning Bills.

Carolyn is the kind of legislator who, whether she’s in the majority or the minority, whether her party is in the majority or the minority, she doesn’t take “No” for an answer, and she frequently calls women leaders and say, “I think we should do this. This is really necessary for women.” And so she hangs in there and gets bills passed when people think it’s not possible.

Joanne: Mm-hmm, now one of the names that’s been floated out there, and actually I was watching the news a little bit before we got on the phone, and one of the other potential candidates for Hillary’s seat that we’ve heard mentioned is Caroline Kennedy and apparently today she told some people in the media that she is interested in Hillary’s seat. Why Congresswoman Maloney as opposed to Caroline Kennedy?

Ellie: Well we didn’t look at it like that. We looked at it: “Why Carolyn Maloney?” Of course, we didn’t know about Caroline Kennedy, but we do know and have – this is not against somebody, this is for somebody who we know has had a proven record. It’s 16 years in the House, 10 years on the City Council of New York City, that she has shown her determination to pass legislation. She is – she knows how a legislature works.

She is very, very comfortable with a whole host of issues, but on women’s issues, she is really just one of the few people who understands that women are not only half of the world and half of the United States, but they need an advocate; that they have to have advocacy; that our issues cannot be ignored. So she’s there day in and day out for us and for women of this country and of the world, but she also never forgets the citizens of New York, and she’s been, as you know a trailblazer for 9/11, commission for, you know, the financial district, etc.

So to us, it was a perfect combination, and frankly, I’ve been here a long time working for women. I’ve had, you know, I’ve been here since ’75 when I was Chair of the Board of NOW and president in ’77. These are long years and this is an unusual legislator. She knows how to get something done, and as I said, it doesn’t matter if she’s in the majority or the minority. It doesn’t matter if she’s chair of a committee or not, she can figure out how to get a piece of legislation passed, and that’s what is – is a unique quality.

Also she thinks up things that need to be done, I mean, she doesn’t wait to have us push for it. She’s there thinking about, “OK, what do we do?” For example, you know, no one thinks she can pass the Paid Family and Medical Leave Act; she passed it through the House. I mean, it’s just – she’s there. She knows the issues and she makes sure they get done.

Joanne: Mm-hmm and you mentioned that one of the jobs that she currently has in Congress is that she – I believe she’s the Chair of Joint Committee on Economic Issues, the House and the Senate. What sort of, what work has she done in that committee that you think uniquely qualifies her now given our economic situation?

Ellie: Well she’s done a lot of work on the, on the pay gap between women and men, and she pointed out that, you know, country – we don’t have equality, and how women’s pay is not commensurate with men and not keeping up. And so she – she used that seat to show the, you know, the glass ceiling is still there, and how it should be changed. But on the other hand, she also knows the inner workings of the banking system, and so she’s there making sure that the average person is gonna be taken care of in this recovery plan; that, you know, unemployment compensation is spread to more people and – ‘cause a lot of women are cut out of that.

You know, she – she knows the financial issues, that’s why we thought she was perfect because we’re in a – we’re in, as you know, a financial crisis, an economic crisis, and I know that she’ll see the whole picture. She understands the whole picture. She is comfortable with these issues ‘cause she is chair of the committee, and she’s dogged and will make sure the average woman and man is represented as well as making sure that our financial system stays afloat. In other words, she gets it and she has represented the financial district, but she also represents the average person and definitely the average woman.

Joanne: In addition to the first few questions that I had, I also had a chance to gather some questions from some of our other BlogHer members that we wanted to ask, sort of in connection with your announcements regarding Congresswoman Maloney. Laurie White writes a blog called “LaurieWrites” and she wanted to know from you, why is it important that a woman hold this seat being vacated by Hillary Clinton? Would it be just as effective for women if a man was in the position who had the exact same views on issues that Congresswoman Maloney has?

Ellie: Well, you know, I’m not a prejudice person, and I’ve worked with many male legislators and some have been excellent for us, so I’m not speaking against a class of people. But on the other hand, we have so few women in Congress. We are so underrepresented and whether we like it or not, we are in area – in an era that still the women, the handful that are there, have two jobs: they represent the constituency that they’re from, and they also represent the women of the nation or the state or sometimes as Maloney has done, of the world.

And, I mean, how many men would have gone on to the floor of the House as Carolyn Maloney did and wear a burkha to show the fight of Afghan women, you know. She identifies with the possibility of being raped, that’s why she hung in there for the Debbie Smith Bill. So it – it’s essential that in New York, if we can’t get a prominent woman in New York, where can we? I mean there’s so many states that have never even had a woman senator. We’re still on our first this and our first that.

And this seat is an important seat that she’s sitting in, and I – I think that we’re just fortunate that you have an experienced legislator: 26 years of fighting for our issues in line. I mean, there’s nobody, there’s no man, nor woman that is being mentioned that has the legislative experience that she has and the passion in her heart for advancing the cause of women.

Joanne: And you mentioned that, you know, women are so underrepresented in Congress which sort of leads me to the next question that we have from Erin Kotecki Vest who is a contributor to BlogHer and our political director and also blogs at Queen of Spain. She wanted to get your reaction on President-Elect Barack Obama’s appointments to his cabinet, so far, and how you feel about the mix of, you know, who’s represented and the number of women that he’s appointed so far.

Ellie: Well, we’re pleased with some of the appointments, obviously. We think that Hillary will be a symbol and a reality for the women of the world, and it’s very important because so many – so many underdeveloped countries, not the least of which is Afghanistan, the women of the world need help, and she understands those issues and is a lightning rod for them. Janet Napolitano has been – was great as the Platform Committee Chair of the Democratic Party , gets our issues, and also that’s a very important position. Melody Barnes as National Domestic Policy Committee; I can go on.

So these are all very positive steps. We would like, still the numbers to increase, and so we’re hoping that there’s far – there will be many more women in the cabinet. It appears there will be and we’re hoping that will happen. And – but the ones that have been picked, by and large, we have worked with. There’s a couple that we haven’t, but there – they look like their bio’s are great and so we’re – we’re pushing on.

I’m not going to say that all the cabinet appointments of the men and women, you know, obviously we might have some reservations on some, but the women’s movement has congratulated them for some of the appointments and is urging and encouraging more women in the Executive Branch and high areas. We are so underrepresented in the legislative area that we really need more women, and more women who are concerned with women’s issues, you know, in the – at the top.

By the way, I wanted to mention one thing also about Carolyn that I haven’t mentioned. She’s written a book and if your –

Joanne: Yes, I did want to talk about that.

Ellie: Yeah, The Rumors of Our Progress Have Been Greatly Exaggerated is the book, and it also shows her depth of knowledge and commitment for change for women. It goes issue by issue. It’s a blueprint of what needs to be done.

Joanne: I was reading that today and I was really sort of very impressed. Not surprised, but impressed that it was such a blueprint talking about not only her own ideas but also relaying them in a way of sharing other women’s stories as illustrations for why certain pieces of legislation ought to be passed.

Ellie: Yes, and I personally think that people should get the book because it is like a blueprint. It shows you the work that needs to be done if we’re ever going to get economic equality, health, reproductive health, violence. I mean, it’s every category. It’s not everyone, but it’s doggone – it’s a good blueprint; a very comprehensive agenda written very – written in language that reaches a broad audience.

It’s a, you know, she talks about work, family and workplace values. In other words, a workplace that works for families. It’s – it’s very comprehensive and very down to earth. Social security – I’m leafing through it as I talk to you.

Joanne: And very readable, I mean this is not like a very dry political book. This is – it was a very quick and entertaining and interesting read because there were so many stories, at least for me, of real women and – and sort of the issues that they face, and her commitment to wanting to help them.

Ellie: Right. I’ve known Carolyn for years, by the way. I knew her when she was on the City Council and knew her when she was – when she was running, and we endorsed her very early when she ran for Congress, yet I didn’t know some of the stories in here of herself and her struggle, and – and she makes a very – you know, it’s - it pulls your heart as well as – but it’s very practical.

That’s who she is. I mean, she is really constantly thinking, “How do we improve things?” You know, sees the glass always half-full, and you have to be an optimist to work in Washington. So that’s what I – we admire so much about her.

Joanne: Now in terms of, you know, thinking about the issues that she writes about in her book and the issues that the Feminist Majority advocate for and that NOW advocates for, which issues do you see, you know, that should be – that you feel and possibly Representative Maloney feel should be at the top of the list for the Obama administration? I mean, I hate to keep calling them women’s issues, but you know, for lack of a better shorthand term, you know, what would you like to see the Obama administration address first?

Ellie: Well, there’s some executive orders we’d like to see really done right away. The repeal of the gag rule that affects third-world, you know, women in developing nations and – and giving back the funding for Family Planning that’s been withheld from the U.N. by the – literally by Bush. It can be reversed, but it goes –

Joanne: Making it illegal for – could you explain a little bit what the gag rule is?

Ellie: Well the gag rule is, is that if any program receiving United States funding for Family Planning cannot mention, cannot speak the word “abortion” in the Third World. They can’t even counsel or refer somebody. Say somebody was critically ill, they cannot obviously perform them, but this goes way beyond performing. This goes about speaking, advocating for legalization.

In other words, it’s taking away their right to freedom of speech and in this case, right to counsel in a medically – a medical situations that could be critical to the woman’s life and health. Many family planning clinics and – and programs that service women have refused now to take women’s – United State’s money because they feel that it would be unethical, and it could injure their clients even more, their patients even more. That has to be changed.

The gag rule must be eliminated, and it’s just the gag rule, we’re not talking now even about funding abortion. We’re talking about, you know, counseling and speaking, so that’s one. That can be reversed by an executive order. Bush put it in the first day he got in office. We hope that Obama takes it out. He had cut off funding for the United Nations Population Fund, UNFPA, even though Congress had appropriated. This money was used for hospitals in the third world to give maternal treatment such as the fixing of what they call “fistula” or tears in the vagina caused through childbirth. It is injured women who are the poorest of the poor.

We want that funding which had already been appropriated for seven years it’s been upheld – withheld from the people who need it the most in the developing world. We want him to reverse things like some regulations that were passed to weaken Title IX that were put in 2006 quietly. We would like those to be reversed. We want this – and I – we hope that right when they come back, that the Congress passes the Lilly Ledbetter Act which would correct the Supreme Court decision that was just recent that essentially guts wage discrimination law. It’s been in place for years. It was gutted by this Roberts Court. We want it to be reversed by legislation. We hope that Congress passes it and that is on the desk for Obama to sign as one of his first acts once he’s sworn in. So it – I could go on, we have quite a well-developed list.

Joanne: What do you think the likelihood is? Do you have any sense of what the support in Congress is for the Ledbetter Act?

Ellie: I think it will pass. It – it passed the House by quite a large margin and it was stopped in the Senate by a filibuster, a Republican filibuster. We don’t think that they’ll be able to maintain that because we would have in this case, you know, the votes of Olympia Snowe and Specter, so essentially, we don’t think they would have the strength to maintain a filibuster, so we – we’re hopeful it will pass rapidly and of course Obama would sign it.

Joanne: Well, I know we’ve been on the phone for quite sometime and we’ve really appreciated your time. I’d like to ask you one last question before we wrap up. Another contributor, E. M. Zanotti who also blogs as American Princess would like to hear your thoughts generally on women in politics. Some people have talked about the fact that perhaps women elected officials lost ground in the 2008 election, just in terms of numbers and what do you see as the hurdles for women in politics going forward, and how can they sort of jump over them and clear them?

Ellie: Well, we didn’t lose ground. We didn’t gain like we should’ve. We only went up by about one percentage point. We’re gonna have 10 new women in Congress, 2 new senators: Kay Hagan from North Carolina and Jeanne Shaheen from New Hampshire, but of course Hagan is replacing Dole. So that’s only a net gain of one, and if you lose and we did, we’ve now lost Hillary Clinton, we’re now back to where we were, that’s why we think it’s so important that we get Maloney in that seat. It’s one of the reasons; we also think that she is a unique person that deserves it and would help advance women’s rights.

But, anyway, we’re – what did we do in the House, we picked up 10 seats, 7 of them very pro-choice, but also very pro-women’s rights, 1 a mix record and 2 not so. But at least it’s a little gain, it’s not what it should be though, and that’s why we picked up some, as you know, in the state legislatures, of course, but overall, the progress for women have been extremely slow in politics. I said long time ago that as the rate we’re going, this is going to consume another two generations, maybe three, so we’ve gotta pick up this rate.

It’s going to be very important that we as women’s rights advocates are involved in redistricting of both the states legislatures and of the House of Representatives and that we not lose seats but we gain seats for talented women and our country, but we’re lacking behind. We ranked something like 59th, can you imagine this in a world –

Joanne: And it makes me sad for my eight-year-old daughter. (Laughter)

Ellie: Yeah, we’re lagging behind. It’s – a lot of it is the election system. It is – I could go through all the problems; I don’t think you have time, but we need some rules changes. This is an outrage that this, the oldest democracy has now, you know, ranked – when I say ranked 59th, it means that in the percentage of women, in our national parliament, our National Congress, is now ranks 59th from the top. That means 58 countries have more women than we do in percentage wise.

And then you go into state legislatures, yes we’re doing quite well in some states, but there are states that you can’t – I mean, it’s just ridiculous the representation of women, and having been an advocate for women, lobbied in many states as well as here at the national level for women, you know, when I say lobbied but maybe I should say being a representative for women’s rights, talked to God knows how many people, it is – there’s something different about having adequate numbers. People behave differently when there are women at the table, men do. Our issues get higher prominence. We’re taken more seriously.

As long as we can be just the sidelight, the side issue, issues that deal with human beings, both men and women and children that should be given more prominence are not. We’ve spent too much on how to destroy and blow up things with the military and too little on our health care, and too little on education, and it goes on. I mean, in – and women’s rights or women – employed women, women in social security, women in retirement system, we’re still no where near equal. And one of the problems and the reason why Carolyn wrote the book, the Rumors of Our Progress Have Been Greatly Exaggerated is that some people think we have made it when we have not and there’s much to be done.

Joanne: Well Ellie, thank you so much for being with us today. This was a really great conversation and it was really wonderful to hear your views in general but also why the Feminist Majority and NOW have come out with their endorsement of New York Congresswoman Carolyn Maloney hoping that she will get Hillary Clinton seat in the Senate.

Ellie: By the way, I wanted to say one thing for Governor Paterson, who’s, you know, this audience is one I hope that your folks email him to tell him that you want Maloney, but I also think you should praise him. He’s the first governor that I know just said he was given a whole list of women – of people to be judges, you know, to appoint to the New York Court of Appeals and there wasn’t a woman on the list.

Joanne: I read that.

Ellie: And he said he wants – he doesn’t – he wants – he directed the Attorney General Cuomo to see if they could figure out a way that he doesn’t have to appoint somebody when – from this list – when every women has been excluded. He says, “You can’t tell me there isn’t a capable qualified woman that should be at least on the list.” I thought that was great.

Joanne: It is. You know, what the sad thing is? I was actually shocked and we shouldn’t be shocked when we read something like that. I mean, that should be the response.

Ellie: Well, yes, and I – to see the fact that it makes news, but also the fact that they would – this commission, would put forth – I guess the commission has the power, and he has – the governor is supposed to appoint from a list that they put forth, would not have noticed there’s not one woman on the list, in New York that probably has more lawyers per square foot than any other state in the union, more women lawyers. I mean, it to me shocking that this can happen in 2008, but fortunately, you had a governor who was sensitive enough to this outrage that he pointed it out to the nation, and is trying to do something about it. (Laughter)

Joanne: Yeah, exactly. Well thank you so much for giving us so much of your time today.

Ellie: Well thank you. I’m glad you’re out there.

Joanne: Thank you. Again, our guest has been Eleanor Smeal, the president of the Feminist Majority and former president of NOW, the National Organization for Women. I’m Joanne Bamberger of BlogHer. Thank you so much for joining us.

Ellie: Thank you.

Joanne: Thank you.