Using the Internet to Teach Our Kids Consequences

Yeah, I'm not a parent so take what I say with a grain of salt, but my heart is not really breaking for those kids. They're toys. They didn't take away their beds or food. As for the pictures, they will laugh about them when they're older. If not...well, they have an unhealthy attachment to consumer goods that they need to take care of.

If people are really getting upset about these kids' reaction to getting some toys taken away, they'd better never accidentally see a World Vision commercial with naked, starving African orphans or they'll kill themselves. I know I'm committing the "there are starving kids in Africa, what are you crying about" fallacy here, but come on. Really.

I try not to be too judgy about people's parenting. I think we can all be honest with ourselves about whether we honestly think a child is being harmed or whether we are engaging in some self-congratulatory judgment, and 95% of the time it's the latter.

I think taking away toys and selling them to pay for damages is a great way to teach a long lasting and important lesson. The kids are learning 1. that they have to listen to their parents, 2. that they need to value other people's property, and 3. that they need to resolve the problems that they create, not just sit in their rooms, say I'm sorry, or some other typical "consequence."

I just wouldn't post the picture online; I think the only thing that really does is give the parent some gratification and the embarrassment the kids suffer takes away some of the impact of the real lessons they should be learning.

Miri Kramer

Life After Push ( http://lifeafterpush.com/ )

I guess I'll be another self esteem crushing "bad" parent because I love the visual reminder that a photo will be for these kids in the future. reminders of my choices surround me everyday, why not teach that to our kids early.

Yes, I have too have had to make discipline decisions that not everyone may agree with, and I have taken away toys.
I'm not against donating or even selling toys to children who may appreciate them more, I just don't think the public humiliation of using this photo is something I agree with.
The taking the toys away as the consequence of the behavior will be long forgotten, but the damage to the children's emotions and self worth may be forever with them.
Though the damage to the bathroom sounds severe and certainly worth harsh punishment, working off the money in chores, etc teaches far more than hurting them emotionally.

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My sister believes desperately that all children can be raised entirely on reason and rationale with a hearty dose of enlightenment... although she has met toddlers, she clearly has never parented one or tried to keep a particularly precocious one out of harms way.

The way she communicates with children is beautiful and egalitarian on all fronts but if my kid is running towards a street, a hot pan, rusted bits of scrap metal... I'll yell and scare the hell out of them before I quietly ask from the sidelines if they really want to run into danger. I'm all for my sister's approach in it's correct time and place.

To the pre-internet sister of drunk teen, your mother may be my hero in that particular situation. The kid was already home, safe and needed to be spoon fed a little humility for poor choices. Classic!

www.SaraInAkko.blogspot.com ( http://www.SaraInAkko.blogspot.com )

Life in the Middle East, with craft and spice

While my heart breaks at this photo, I get it.

Pre-internet public display of humiliation, I remember my mom photographing my barfing, inebriated, falling down 17 yo sister while she stumbled around the house oblivious. I, the big sis, was mortified at the bad parenting. But it worked. The next day little sis was made to clean up the barf, laundry, etc. And look at recently developed photos.

Never happened again.

Kathykate (p/t copywriter, f/t mom)

Diary of a Return-to-Work Mom ( http://www.returntoworkmom.com/ )

I agree with everything you said. I'm not a mom so I may not be allowed any say in this but I don't agree with publicly humiliating a child to get a point across - eBay doesn't need a picture of an upset child to sell toys.

I'm all for teaching children valuable lessons about life, even if it may not be the mainstream way of doing it. But a child should never have to be placed in a situation where they can feel degraded or put on as a show.

Sincerely,

Randa from About Life* ( http://aboutlifestar.blogspot.com/ )

... of intentional public humiliation.

And yes, I've done many of those things you listed. I've even been judged for some of them.

I gave my daughter a time-out on the floor of Payless Shoes. But I wasn't INTENDING to humiliate her - I didn't do it for the purpose of humiliating her. (She may have experienced some humiliation, but that was incidental, and I'm way more a fan of 'natural consequences' when they crop up. Unintentional humiliation is a natural consequence, in my opinion.)

I'm not sitting in harsh judgment of the parent who listed the toys and photo on eBay, mostly because it doesn't affect me but also because I don't know all the details - I recognize that I may be lacking some context.

But if you are asking how I feel about intentional humiliation of children to teach lessons, I will tell you that I am not a fan of it. If this parent used that, then I would feel comfortable saying that she (or he) and I have very different approaches to parenting.

That's OK too, though. Some of my best friends have very different approaches to parenting. As long as there is no abuse, I'm not going to tread on your approach.

JustLinda

fabulously imperfect Nothing to See Here... Just Linda ( http://justlinda.net )

Twitter @JustLindaSTL

21 years ago, when my son was 19, I "invited" him to move out of my house. It was not something I just decided to do. He had quit school without my permission when he was 16, and laid around the house by day and stayed out half the night with his friends. I came home from work every day to a pile of dirty dishes in the sink and the trash can overflowing. I told him every day for three years that he needed to get a job or get in school, and he had absolutely no motivation for doing either.

One day I came home from work to an odor permeating from his room that smelled like something had died. I found a bowl of food in his dresser drawer that had maggots crawling in it. That was the last straw, and I gave him the ultimatum: Get a job, get in school, or get out. He chose the get out option.

You would have thought I had picked up a knife and stabbed him from the feedback I got from my peers: co-workers, friends, my sister, my mother. But, a male co-worker who was a lot older and wiser than me said "Even a dog knows when to wean her pups" and I have never forgotten that.

Today, my son is a successful 16 year veteran of the Air Force. He has traveled the world, gotten a college degree, and learned a lucrative trade. He has thanked me for my decision to "invite him to leave".

From my own experience, I really do not think that people who have not walked in your particular shoes should have an opinion about the choices you make with your children. We all do what we have to to make sure our children grow up to be responsible, self sufficient adults. And if that means selling their stuff on ebay, with the sad face pictures included, then so be it.

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Is this good parenting. Isn't part of life learning that sometimes if you act like and ass, you will be embarrassed? I understand not making a public display just for the "fun" of it. But these examples you've listed are the way I parent everyday. If my kids misbehave in public I deal with it then. I think we've become way too soft and it shows in too many kids these days. We took my kids to chuck e cheese this weekend for my 3 years olds birthday and the rudeness of the other kids is disgusting!!!!!

the punishment works for me. The picture doesn't.

Blog: Family Friendly Frugality ( http://www.familyfriendlyfrugality.com/ )

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I think everyone has had moments they wish they could change, and kids that have embarrassed them and made them want to crawl under a rock but it's how you handle it that makes the difference.
I was in a BIG discount retail store, (W you now the one) buying sneakers for my middle child and mistakenly took all 3 boys. He decided to scream his way through the store, and through the shoe department and through the check out but it was the last day to buy shoes before school (which is another place of parental judgement). We got the shoes but the man behind me? gave me the evil stare through the whole experience. I finally looked him in the eye and said "Aren't you glad I'm taking him home with me? and I love him!"

We don't know the full story. And I think we've all been there B.K. (Before Kids) and thought, those parents are crazy. I remember a story about a mom who went on strike and sat outside her house on a lawn chair with a sign for a week. But until you've been in the trenches, you don't know what lengths you'll go to to get a point across.

Our 2 YO had a horrific tantrum in the mall one day. I strapped her in her stroller and tried to just get out of there. She put her feet down so I couldn't push her any further. I had to tilt the stroller back so she was almost horizontal and I was bent over at a ridiculous angle. As if her blood-curdling screams weren't enough to get everyone in the mall looking at us. I was getting dirty looks right and left. I know people thought I must be beating that child to elicit such insanity. And they were thinking "If my kid ever did that, I'd..." or "My child would never..." etc. from the expressions on their faces. I got a few sympathetic looks from other moms, but most people were incredibly irritated that my kid chose to interrupt their shopping with her screaming.

NotJustAnotherJennifer is a wife and working mom of two beautiful girls, 3 (going on 13) and 1, which means she's sleep deprived but constantly kept on her toes! Most of those experiences are chronicled on her blog, http://midwestmomments.blogspot.com.

With both of my kids! I remember taking my son out of Olive Garden on my then-boyfriend, now-husband's fourth date. My son, then 3 and half, refused to take his coat and hood off in the restaurant, even if I took it off for him, he would put it back up. I told him that coats were for outside, and if he didn't want to take it off we would go and sit outside while everyone else got breadsticks (bread = big motivator). He didn't listen and out we went, and dirty looks ensued. After about 4 minutes he said he was ready and in we went and finished our dinner. Never happened again.

Flash forward about 7 years and switch kids. My step-daughter would have been about 13 years old. We were at a motorcycle racing event, my husband racing and I was working timing and scoring. My kids were mostly on their own (safe enviornment, lots of friends etc...) My daughter, who has a history of poor self-regulation and choice making took 20 bucks out the trailer, spend in to candy and junk, ate her weight in butter tarts, and then went and mooched off the neighbours for hot dogs after that. At about midnight she vomitted all over our new trailer. We threw out the sleeping bag. The next day she had to sit beside me on a chair. Oooh, did we get dirty looks and snide comments about how mean we were...

I won't even get started about the time my son got up at a wedding reception and starting talking about humping dogs...

blogging about life stuff at http://mcwhclan.wordpress.com

but i think this is the best thing ever. we usually get rid of toys that are misused but if they did real damage than good for these parents killing two birds with one stone. they are teaching their kids a lesson AND helping cover their costs. I agree kids break stuff, accidents happen. BUT I think our culture has allowed kids to run wild and are often just sitting back giggling instead of making kids learn there are consequences. My kids certainly aren't perfect and have given me plenty of material that could be contributed to Shit My Kids Ruined but aside from the walls in their room and their closet door, its all been their own stuff. But it creates its own natural consequence. You ruin a toy, its gone and it doesn't get replaced! I wish more people would be like these "heartless" parents and stop worrying about just making their kids happy and start worrying about making their kids into GOOD PEOPLE!!!

The mistake here is the public humiliation. It does nothing for a child self esteem. It's one thing to sell the toys. I think the line was crossed when the boys pics were added to the listing