Where do you stand on Roman Polanski?
by Mir Kamin

It is, perhaps, ironic that right around the same time that Mackenzie Phillips went public about her incest experience, a second entertainment icon was thrust into the limelight for sexual misconduct, as well: Roman Polanski was arrested in connection with a 30-year-old rape charge and the entertainment world went into an uproar.

(David Letterman is the third entertainment icon to be thrust into the spotlight for sexual misconduct.)

You can read the trial transcript, better yet here's your Cliff Notes version of the facts in this case: In 1977, 13-year-old Samantha Geimer was hired to model for Polanski, who subsequently took her to Jack Nicholson's house and proceeded to give her champagne and Quaaludes before having oral, vaginal, and anal sex with her. Polanski pled guilty to unlawful sex with a minor, and then fled the country out of fear of extended jail time (it seems the plea was, he hoped, a way to get out of actual imprisonment beyond the 42 days he initially served). Whether or not the sex took place is not in contention here; both the victim and the perpetrator agree that it happened.

No, the matter seemingly up for debate is whether it is 1) lawful and 2) ethical and/or necessary for Polanski to be imprisoned now for a crime committed so long ago. (The answer to 1 is "hell, yes," by the way. I don't understand why there's any argument on 2, but apparently there is.)

Color me naive, but I wasn't aware that there's some sort of statute of limitation on heinous transgressions against a child. The fact that there's an entire contingent of people claiming that "Polanski has suffered enough" has blown my mind. Polanski had a rough life, you see. He's been living in exile! He's suffered enough! Why drag up old memories? Even his victim has gone on record stating that she doesn't think he deserves further jail time. And the more I read about the petition calling for Polanski's release (and the big-name stars signing it), the more I wonder if the entire world has lost its collective mind. (If you really want to get depressed, check out Liza at culturekitchen's running tally of "rape apologists" via the petition.)

Bitch Magazine's Kelsey Wallace cheers on Kate Harding's comments at Salon, in a piece titled, "Roman Polanski, Arrested for Raping a Child. Because He Did:"

Harding kicks it off on the right foot by pointing out the sheer ridiculousness of feeling sorry for a man who RAPED A 13-YEAR OLD, admitted it, and then fled to France to live a fabulous life of Oscar wins and villas and probably lots of European glamour and delicious cheeses. Why on earth would we shed a tear for that ass hat?

And if you don't find yourself cheering along at this clip of Chris Rock on Jay Leno, well, the fine ladies at Jezebel are only too happy to elucidate:

What's so disturbing [...] isn't that people are claiming our legal system is flawed. It's that people - be they in Hollywood or your average citizen - are grasping for all kinds of ways to twist this back on the victim and to exonerate Polanski by denying this crime ever happened. So you want him to walk on a technicality? Fine. Admit that! But why are we denying that the rape ever happened?

It did happen.

Polanski admitted as such. So are people so invested in the idea that if we pretend it isn't "rape-rape" then the matter will be resolved?

As Rock says at the end of the clip: "The United States, we want to capture Osama Bin Laden, and murder him. We don't want to rape him - that would be barbaric!"

And if you haven't heard this "rape-rape" bit, yet, you can direct your thanks to Whoopi Goldberg for that, where her comments on The View seem to indicate that if you say it twice, it becomes something more permissible; again, commentary from Jezebel:

What is worrisome about Whoopi's argument is that she refuses to call a 43 year old man having sex with an unconscious 13 year old girl "rape". She may have personal, possibly guilty-parent reasons for not accepting this, but as tangled up as this case is, the fact that it was rape is one of the least controversial things about it. Roman Polanski admitted to drugging and having sex with a child, and in the country in which he did it, that is rape. (Though nice try Whoopi with the "Europeans have sex with children all the time!" argument, or whatever that was.)

Amelia McDonell-Parry at The Frisky is enraged by the commentary on The View, as well, and darkly concludes:

And shame on Whoopi. Let’s hope her granddaughter never has to weigh the differences between rape, “rape-rape,” or the way Europeans like to do it.

Amber at MamaPop is able to muster some sympathy for Polanski's tortured past, but clarifies that it's not an excuse:

A lot of apologetic rhetoric was bandied about by Goldberg, Behar and Gilbert during this segment. Yes, Roman Polanski had a rough life. A survivor of the Holocaust, Polanski also lost his wife Sharon Tate in the brutal Manson slayings in 1969. Those are horrors I would not see visited upon anyone, even a rapist. But that doesn't make it okay to rape 13-year-old girls. There was some discussion about his films, though at least they agreed (however much of it was lip-service), that making great art doesn't excuse one from heinous crimes.

But let's just be fucking real for a minute. It obviously does, because the French government has been willing to dismiss the crimes of its adopted son Polanski for years, simply because he makes great films. People don't want to believe that famous people are capable of infamous crimes, because we hold them up as something more than us, as something better. Famous people who commit crimes aren't criminals! They're eccentric! tortured artists! I can't believe for a second that someone with different credentials from Polanski's, even with the same traumatic past, would be given us pass like Whoopi seems to want to give Polanski.

Here on BlogHer, member alyssaroyse writes with clarity about the need to separate the man from the act:

I agree with others who have said that who Roman Polanski is as a person shouldn't taint the lens through which we look at his art. However, his art cannot taint how we look at him as a person either. He raped a child, he admitted it, and he fled the country - after paying her off - rather than serving his punishment.

Justice here may be delayed, but it should not be denied.

Liz B at A Chair, A Fireplace & A Tea Cozy offers a bit of perspective on the issue of time served:

Polanski served 42 days. Robert Downey, Jr, spent more time in prison for drug charges -- where no one but Downey was hurt -- than Polanski did for his actions. Polanski has two consequences he has to face in the courtroom: first, the sentence for his guilty plea. Second, his sentence for fleeing the country. It's not just the plea he has to face. Paris Hilton got 23 days for her victimless crimes; shouldn't Polanski serve at least that for fleeing? Especially since if Polanski hadn't run away, his victim would not now be held up to abuse and slut-shaming by Hollywood. The consequences of his flight include the increased, continuing trauma and attacks against her.

The best (I hesitate to use that word, here, but it fits) perspective I've been able to find on why, perhaps, Polanski should not be prosecuted, comes from Mary Elizabeth Williams at Salon. Rather than calling for Polanski to be exonerated because "it was a long time ago" and "he's so brilliant," she at least has the victim's interests in mind:

[S]exual abuse changes a person, forever. It doesn’t make her eternally a victim; it doesn’t taint her or ruin her. It does, however, create a before and after. It’s what happens in the after that matters.

[...]

I want to leave Roman Polanski’s victim alone. I don’t want to make her the official spokesperson for sexual victimhood, or relive a life-changing horror. I don't want to presume what's best, when I don't have to live with her nightmares. For Polanski to live out his days scot-free in European ease feels wrong and unfair. It makes a whole lot of us uncomfortable. But I’d rather live with my own revulsion at his actions than carry out some rote exercise in feel-good amends if it means any measure of ease and peace for his victim. I believe her when she says, “It was the media that ruined my life.” And I don’t want to be in the same boat with the man who raped her.

I appreciate the sentiment, here, even though I disagree with the reasoning. Polanski's victim has already been victimized by the media. Twice. Releasing Polanski at this point would only victimize her a third time, in my opinion. As awful as it is that victims of sexual crimes are often the ones ripped apart in the media in the wake of these events, that ship has already sailed.

And what message does it send the would-be rapists, or the "well I thought she was older" or the "she said she wanted it" shrugging, unapologetic child molesters of the world if he's allowed to go free, again?

So where do you stand? Do the crime, do the time? Or thirty years passed and a victim's willingness to let it drop should make it all go away?

Whatever the eventual outcome, I just want to say this: Samantha Geimer, I'm sorry this happened to you. You didn't deserve to be raped and you certainly don't deserve the media rodeo show that's going on now.

"Che Tempo Che Fa" - Italian TV Show

BlogHer Contributing Editor Mir also blogs about issues parental and otherwise at Woulda Coulda Shoulda, and about the joys of mindful retail therapy at Want Not.

Comments

 

Think about the message to girls going
through this RIGHT NOW

Right now there are 13-year-old (and younger) girls going through sexual exploitation and molestation and rape. 

Geimer may want to move on, but we, as a society, need to send a message to *current* victims that they *will* be protected. Even 30 years later.

Elisa Camahort Page BlogHer elisa@blogher.com My BlogHer profile truly shows you everything I do online...Check it out!!

 

Roman Polanski

I was  thirteen years old when Roman Polanski came over to my house to meet with my father.  Together, my Dad and Roman went on to make Rosemary's Baby. I remember clearly when the catastrophic murders of his wife and unborn baby happened.  

I grew up in Hollywood and understood very early what pressures were placed upon young women who might want a shot at stardom.  But I was lucky to have parents who protected me and helped me discover my self worth.

Whether Roman got a bad deal in his case or not, he did have sex with a 13-year-old girl.  For this, he needs to pay for his crime.  

happilyeverafterbirth.com

 

Very Well Said, Mir.

I stand by the comments I made on Alyssa's blog about seperating the art from the artist. It never ceases to amaze me how people can find a way to excuse deplorable acts if only the perpetrator was famous or beloved or rich enough. In my day job (law enforcement) I see what happens to victims and how they suffer from the actions of predatory acts of violence. I see how defense attorneys, in the name of protecting their client, still, in 2009, can attack a victim and damage their testimony by exploiting her vulnerability. For people to do the same thing because the defendant happens to be a member of their special club is particularly sickening.

 

TJ Smith

www.downturnliving.com

 

He raped an unconscious

He raped an unconscious child. He admits it. He fled the country to avoid doing his earned jail time.

I vote he gets thrown in jail with added time for fleeing the country. Anything less and the legal system is even more of a joke.

Laurie in Sri Lanka

Chilli & Chocolate | A Canadian in King Parakramabahu's Court | LMAshton on Twitter

 

Ridiculous!

It is utterly unfathomable to me that there is ANY discussion about Roman Polanski's responsibility here.  He pled guilty and then fled the country.  So - he pled guilty - served no time, and then skipped out on his sentence.  Um - hello...  Seriously?  People know what "rape" is - and whatever RIDICULOUS definition of "rape-rape" Whoopi or anybody else wants to use - he has NOT paid for his crimes.  He has continued to produce movies in his absence.  He has continued to live in freedom, while his victim has had to learn to live with the horror of being raped.  He committed a crime, and there is a price to pay.  He fled his responsibility and should pay a higher price for running.  Period.

Debbie Taylor

aka The Queen Mommy

 

Roman Polanski

Actually, a statute of limitations would apply to his being arrested and convicted... NOT whether they can get their hands on him AFTER he's already made a plea bargain.

According to http://ageofconsent.com/ageofconsent.htm , there are only two states where 14-year-old girls are legal, Missouri and South Carolina.  There are ZERO states where male-female sex is sanctioned at 13, so there's no question that according to the statutes, Roman Polanski is guilty.  Of course, he also ADMITTED his guilt by accepting a plea bargain.

According to the documentary I saw, Polanski fled to Europe because he feared that the judge wasn't going to go along with the plea arrangement.  If there are any loopholes in this situation, that's where it is.  They'll probably attempt to accuse the judge of misconduct and either get a new trial or get it thrown out entirely.

The reason why big-name-stars would be signing a petition is because they LIVE that life while the rest of us read about it in the tabloids.  They know how common these situations are and that a lot of people they know would be in jail as well for "casting couch" practices.

In general, if this actually goes back into an American court, I can see Polanski blowing trial and having to sit in Club Fed for a few years, probably working on a new script.

~ Bill
I blog at billcammack.com

 

Did Whoopi know?

I'm struggling to make sense of that "rape -rape" comment.

It would only make sense if Whoopi was somehow under the impression that it was consensual sex, but illegal because the girl was a minor.  In that case, I could understand somebody saying "its not really rape".  Not that I would agree with them though :p

But in this case, how on earth can anyone doubt it was rape?  Do you think she had the full details of the case when she said that?

 

I just watched the actual

I just watched the actual video clip of them talking about this on "The View".

I don't know Whoopi Goldberg and have no idea what was in her mind, but it's clear from the video that she's talking about the actual charge, not the action.  She inarticulately called it "rape-rape" instead of saying that Polanski actually pled to a much lesser charge, which was one count of "having unlawful sex with a minor".

Californa Penal Code Section 261-269 is located @ http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=pen&group=00001-01000&file=261-269 and has several different sections, including

 

261.  (a) Rape is an act of sexual intercourse accomplished with a person not the spouse of the perpetrator, under any of the following circumstances:

and

 

261.5.  (a) Unlawful sexual intercourse is an act of sexual intercourse accomplished with a person who is not the spouse of the perpetrator, if the person is a minor.  For the purposes of this section, a "minor" is a person under the age of 18 years and an "adult" is a person who is at least 18 years of age.

As you can see, even though the facts of the situation remain the same, that the girl was not 18 years old at the time, those are two different sections, with two different descriptions.

As I said, I don't know her at all, but it's my impression that all she was saying was let's call it what it really is.. he skipped town on a conviction of having unlawful sex with a minor (which is still statutory rape) and not on a conviction on Rape 1, for instance.

If you're actually interested in the legal ramifications, here's the California Statutory Rape FAQ => http://www.sexlaws.org/node/2367/print

~ Bill
I blog at billcammack.com

 

OK

That does make more sense.

On a side note - according to the sections you quoted, you cannot be accused of rape by your spouse?  That's pretty medieval.

 

More Issues...

That's an entirely different can of worms... According to http://www.times-standard.com/ci_8668539?source=most_viewed,

"Spousal rape laws, or even the concept of raping a spouse, are pretty new developments. In fact, until the late 1970s, spouses were typically excluded from sexual assault laws.

Until 1993, North Carolina's rape law stated that “a person may not be prosecuted under this article if the victim is the person's legal spouse at the time of the commission of the alleged rape or sexual offense, unless the parties are living separate and apart.”

Currently, spousal rape is a crime in all 50 states but the degrees vary greatly.

In California, the penal code currently considers rape and spousal rape separate offenses and, while they come with similar sentences, there are some nuanced differences that illustrate how they are still considered to be very different crimes."

~ Bill
I blog at billcammack.com

 

Whoopi is hung up on semantics

She didn't consider it real rape because the girl was young and didn't actively fight and consented to go to Polanski's house.  If it was her daughter at 13 that this happened to I wonder if she would say the same thing.

(My blogs are http://flightkeeper.blogspot.com and http://cutefuncool.blogspot.com)

 

In another light

I just wrote about this in regards to rape in general. I've had several friends and family members who were raped at one point in their lives (some as adults, some as young teens): Not one took the rape to authorities to press charges or to make her attacker known -- even if she knew him herself. This discussion of "rape" and "rape rape" is just instilling this ongoing stigma against rape victims even further into the consciousness of our society. It doesn't matter who rapes you or if you know them or if they are brilliant or just some random guy on the street -- it is still rape, and women shouldn't have to choose between justice for their attacks or staying out of the negative media spotlight on themselves.

The people defending this man are reprehensible to me.

_ _

~ jess @ Bumblebee Dreams.

 

He needs to be jailed

I read this article with great interest because I am old enough to remember when this event happened (though I was young enough not to understand the whys and hows).

The fact that his victim thinks he has served enough time... whatever that means... she will serve time for life remembering that day, that time.  I have a feeling she wants her anonymity back and not to be under public scrutiny nor to have her kids' lives disrupted by this renewed media storm.  It must be really hard for her to keep having to deal with these issues and to keep reliving those moments when she watches TV, picks up a magazine or listens to the radio because it is a huge topic, even on Satellite radio.  So you can't get away from it, no matter how you try.

At the time, and even today, the "casting couch" was prevalent and in the entertainment business (I worked for many years on the music side of things part time as a production coordinator) it is anything goes.  Open drug use.  Open just about anything goes on backstage and in the privacy of people's homes.  These people (just look at the Michael Jackson story or the Anna Nicole Smith story) have paid staff to tell them everything bad they do to themselves, or to others, is ok. 

Basically they think because of that and because they give up their rights to privacy when they become public figures, they get a pass.  For most everything.  And to be honest, they do.  I mean, when you read the headlines, People magazine, whatever, the stories are so similiar.  Fame really tortures and damages many people.  It also creates a false sense of self-worth (and self-loathing at the same time because of "the system") so therefore, there is a huge dichotomy and that's how people bring themselves down.

Polanski raped (ugh, when I read what he did, I had no clue he did those horrible things,,, ) a 13 year old girl.  Was she a virgin?  Who knows.  Who cares?  All I know is this.  At 47... I know a lot about life.  And I know a 13 year old might be filled with the power and pride of her girlish beauty, and her blooming body.  But most 13 year olds (especially back in those days, believe me, we were still playing with Barbie at 12 and 13...) back then had no idea what sex was.  We didn't get it taught in Health class the way kids are taught today.  Parents were closed about sex.... didn't talk much about it.

So I am sure that this poor girl, while wanting to forgive and forget... will most likely never forget..  She might forgive, but you can't forget a life altering moment like that - especially one that affects your family and is relived chronically as the saga continues.

She was underage and irregardless of whether "Europeans have sex with kids" like Whoopi said... that is a total LIE..  I am married to a Southern European man.  I have spent a LOT of time in Europe, we have a home there on a Greek island, I was 18 when I first went to Greece and I NEVER had older men hitting on me.  I've never seen anything like that, and I've basically been all over Europe, at a young age, and traveling alone.  I don't know where she gets that mindset from.  It's not the reality.  Maybe back in 1200AD Roman times... but not today.

 

 

 

Half of a Duo, Raising a Duo

http://micrimas.blogspot.com