Which Libertarians...Exactly?
by American Princess

I had to stop and think today, when confronted with this Rasmussen Report. Apparently, whatever Rassmusen defines as “libertarian” is more willing to vote for Obama than for John McCain.

Libertarian voters make up 4% of the nation’s likely voters and they favor Barack Obama over John McCain by a 53% to 38% margin. Three percent (3%) would vote for some other candidate and 5% are not sure. These results, from an analysis of 15,000 Likely Voter interviews conducted by Rasmussen Reports, challenges the conventional wisdom which assumes that strong support for a Libertarian candidate would hurt John McCain…

The next biggest block of voters, representing 20% of all voters, are both fiscally and socially moderate. Forty-nine percent (49%) of these voters are Democrats and 33% are not affiliated with either major party. They are a bit less likely than the population at large to have completed college but demographically reflect the nation in most ways. Obama leads among these voters 59% to 30%.

The problem with this study is, of course, that none of the people that Rassmusen polled or counted as “libertarian” told Rassmusen whether they self-identified as libertarians. Rassmusen just assumed that anyone who was socially liberal but not quite to the point where they felt the burning need to redistribute American wealth contributed money to the Ron Paul campaign once upon a time when it was still doing cool things like running a blimp.

Someone has a tenuous grasp on political identities, methinks.

Sure, we do fit into that general description: we’re fiscally conservative (radically, one might say) and a lot of libertarians tend to be socially liberal, or at least socially permissive, but its not the kind of social “tolerance” one would expect from the segment of the population that has a proclivity for patchouli and homemade clothing. Personally, this boils down to “I don’t really care what you do, don’t intend to legislate on the matter and please leave me the hell alone.” I don’t think I’m remiss in saying that the “non-interference” attitude is what drives people toward libertarianism rather than progressivism; I have no desire to see the country mandate any kind of social behavior, least of all my personal opinion.

Which is precisely why I find it hard to believe that libertarians are suddenly flocking to Obama. Not only does the militant, religious nature of his campaign creep the hell out of most free-thinking people (dear gawd, that symbol!), but his campaign platform includes almost a complete redistribution of American wealth. The man isn’t shy about championing a system that works to actively maintain a “balance,” taking from the productive and giving to the non-productive until we’re one big, happy, possibly smelly community. He advocates for massive government oversight programs including a wide-net universal health care program, increases in the minimum wage and taxes on businesses, expansion of welfare, government subsidies for environmental reform, and dramatically increased support for those government-run organizations that drive libertarians crazy: labor unions, public schools and the subsidized farm. He’s like a modern day FDR with a couple of shakes of non-benevolent dictator all nicely packaged with a navy blue wool bow, and if there’s one thing that gives me a rash, its the possibility of an overbearing, centralized government run by a man who thinks Milton Friedman is a curse word.

I might have issues with those who are further right in this country over things like abortion, gay marriage and drug usage, but in the long run, I can firmly say that the theocracy many on the far left were predicting would come out of a Bush Presidency will never come to fruition so long as Pat Buchanan is safely labeled a nutcase and religious right is safely disenfranchised. If we ever had the opportunity to establish a fascist right-wing jackbooted state, the Bush Administration was the time, and we carelessly flitted away that opportunity. I don’t need to vote for a progressive to feel a sense of complacency about that long-term situation. John McCain is so similarly incompetent at legislating morality that I’m comfortable with him as a choice in that respect.

The same goes for foreign policy. While I don’t happen to be a fan of continued war, nor of future war, nor of John McCain in general, but there’s really no denying that there’s a huge number of people out there who have nothing to do but sit around their Mosques and plan how best to kill Americans in large numbers on American soil. I’m not stupid. They belong to a very specific demographic and have a death wish. They succeeded once. They’ll do it again. And when it comes down to who I trust to have their finger on the trigger at that moment in time, its John McCain hands down. He’s a bad ass. Barack Obama eats arugula from the Whole Foods. He rides his bicycle while wearing jeans and a dorky helmet. He rarely wears a tie. He probably sets out his socks and underwear before he goes to bed at night, shops at Club Monaco and watches the Bravo network. He can hardly be called a “man.” And when Islamofascism rears its ugly head, this country will require a man at its helm.

I think that’s a pretty big one, too. Self-preservation is a great motivator.

That would be why I would consider voting for John McCain when given the choice between John McCain and Barack Obama. Or at least, thats one of the reasons why. The other is that I just hate Barack Obama so darn much that I would would stoop so low as to vote for (ugh) John McCain who is several thousand years old and lacks total respect for the First Amendment over him.

And that is saying something.

Who else is talking? Over at Politics Anew, Catherine is discussing whether the actual libertarian candidate, Bob Barr is the one who actually poses a threat to McCain, Liza at Awearness Blog talks about the MyBarackObama reaction to Barack's squishy position on civil liberties (another issue intensely important to libertarians), and Kathianne at DebatePolicy questions whether the Clinton vote avoiding Barack Obama will offset McCain's potential loss of libertarians.

Comments

 

Defining...

such a lovely concept - when self-defining.

People try to create general groupings for analytical purposes. Once upon a time in business property insurance, there were specific rates, and there were class rates, the latter for smaller risks where the expense of a full blown evaluation was unnecessary. So they grouped 'smaller risks' by some general framework. Were these risks all alike? Hardly. 

Polling is even less exact. 300 million unique beings who think independently, and their entire trade is based on divining a potential result from a solicitation list created by grouping people by some general associative element.

Heh, it can be quite amusing - and frustrating. When they fail, why... NH must be racist, they hid their true feelings and voted for Hillary. Yeah, right.

Reminds me of the grammar school nurse who accused me of faking an eye chart exam - after my parents brought me to the same optometrist who reviewed her results. Had to be my fault, could not have been hers.

I'm a liberal, progressive, whatever you want to call me. Does that mean I support every dumb thing someone who falls into this same general box thinks up? Hardly. I'm a union member, but also a former business owner. Do I agree with every dumb thing my union does? Hardly. I'm a registered Democrat, have been since... 1974. Do I agree with everything Democrats do? Hardly.

And I ha(d)(ve) my differences with the two major Democratic candidates. They will be there even when Obama gets my vote.

So I share your distaste for having your inclination sussed out for you.

The potential still exists for me to write in say... Carol Moseley Braun or Catherine Crier. I won't have my vote presumed to be already chalked up and taken for granted. If someone wants my vote, let me hear what you've got. 

 

 

 

nelle

 

Yes

I think I love you. Seriously. My favorite quote:

 “I don’t really care what you do, don’t intend to legislate on the matter and please leave me the hell alone.”

That is exactly how I've defined libertarianism to my friends.

Melanie
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I don't get it.   The

I don't get it.   The current incarnation of Republicans have done anything but "leave me the hell alone."   The concept defining their attitude toward individuals is eff it, individuals have no rights. Republicans support free markets -- for the top 2 percent.  These folks have also been the biggest spenders in the last several decades, most recently bankrupting the U.S. for the next few generations.   Support for corporations is about as far from libertarianism as one can get.  People who live on trust fund or family wealth interest pay about 15% in federal taxes.  What bracket are you in?    

No, democrats are not the libertarian ideal, but they have been the most conservative economically in fact if not in platform for several decades.   

How do you reconcile these aspects? Just curious.

 Nancy

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Guess I don't quite get...

your point.

I'll agree that the most recent incarnation of Republican leadership is anything but libertarian. (and for full disclosure, so to is that true of me.)  They talk less government, but are quick to work to end choice as we know it, and make damn sure those uppity gay folk know their place as the bottom feeders of society.

That said, this batch of in power Republicans bear little resemblance to more tradiitonal conservatives. They became obsessed with some overblown ascribing of power to Evangelicals, when in reality Evangelicals are 25% of society, and most are nothing like the most visible noise makers (as is true of most any group, I suspect.)

I'm pretty protective of my left of centre outlook, and if someone was tossing around expectations in polls, expectations and positions I should be taking, well... I'd be a bit miffed about such assumptions.

I'm for regulation precisely because open market methodology failed in the past, but that is a different matter for another time.

I just don't see how you've tied what you suggest to those who espouse libertarian outlook.  

 

nelle

 

Deregulation is a conundrum

Deregulation is a conundrum in that it sounds like a good libertarian concept.   When greed is allowed to enter unchecked into basic industires that suppoert human survival severe damage to human life will follow.   It is just a question of when.  The concept of utilities and essential services being outside the "free" market was tossed out the window in the late 20th century.  This paved the way for corporations to exert their power in unchecked ways.   The late 20th Century also saw change to laws by the Reagan era government that allowed foreigners and foreign corporations to own news and media in this country.   That used to be illegal.  Murdoch, Fox and all the sleeze is a direct result of that and unbridled consolidation.   Media, S&Ls, air traffic controllers, energy all fell victim to trickle down econmics.

Nelle, info from Christine Wicker's new book, "The Fall of the Evangelical Nation."  which follows shows a much smaller percentage than the 25 % you mention. 

The most commonly heard statistic about
evangelicals is that they are 25 percent of the country, one out of
four Americans. That stat comes from what Americans say about their religious practice, which is notoriously unreliable.

In fact, traditionalist evangelicals are 7 percent
of the population or 1 out of 14 Americans. Only 7 percent of
self-identified evangelicals believe the most central tenets of
so-called Bible-based belief and fewer than 7 percent are in church on
a given Sunday. 

It might do us some good to examine the S&L crisis of a few years back -- Neil Bush, Keating 5, McCaiin are all involved in this issue. 

 

 

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