Why I'm Pro-Choice

You've very welcome for the post and though you sound as if you were perfectly eloquent in your conversation I hope you can use this as a springboard for ongoing conversation with your son. He sounds like a good man and someone you raised well.

BlogHer Contributing Editor ( http://www.blogher.com/blog/maria-niles )
PopConsumer ( http://consumerpop.typepad.com/popconsumer )
Beyond Help ( http://mariax.vox.com/ )

My twenty-something son and I were taking a walk this afternoon, pushing his 6 month old daughter- my first grandchild- in her stroller.  He turned to me and said- "You know, mom, this has made me change my stance- I have become pro-life."  I told him- "It does change everything, I understand that. After you were born, my feelings about whether or not I personally could have an abortion changed.  But I strongly feel we do not have the right to make choices for other women. Hate abortion-No one likes abortions, I have never known a woman who choose one easily. Instead, work so that no one ever has to make the choice to have one. I want to live in a world where abortion is available, and no-one ever chooses to have one."  

I was far less eloquent than you, probably even less eloquent than I sound in this comment!  I wish I had remembered to say to him, "be anti-abortion, not anti-choice." More to the point, I wish I had the text of your post to share with him then. Thanks for this.

 Willa

http://bones-would-rain.blogspot.com http://palocalvore.blogspot.com
http://yumminessnsues.blogspot.com

you are very, very intelligent. it's actually impressive how well written you are. so, before we get into a 20 paragraph text war, please know that i don't mean to offend or accuse. i'm honestly just very passionate about the issue. i also am completely open to hearing why you are, though it's pretty much all right there in your blog!  anyway, at the risk of being too wordy and losing your attention, let's agree to be friendly in our discussion for the sake of learning something. please let's also check the sarcasm at the subject line...there's no need. besides, it loses it's meaning in "text" anyway...

 have you ever seen and actual abortion video? even at 8 weeks it's brutal.  (i'll assume you have) it's bloody, it's disturbing and even for the pro-choice, it's uncomfortable to see. since you're better than i at explaining your passion, help me to understand how the evidence of an actual abortion, either by photos or video is justifiable for absolutely any reason. it's nothing less than slaughter. can you disagree with that?  it goes beyond being ready to have a baby. beyond finances. beyond convenience. beyond putting "rights on a woman's body".  it's ripping apart flesh, crushing bones, burning insides. how can we look away?  how is it that the arguement is about rebellion? it seems to me that we look away from the horror that it is and justify it by saying the slaying of a life is worth protecting my "rights".

Pro-Life, Pro-Choice & the Meaning of Words

How words and language is used shapes the outcome of a
logical argument.

To get to a logically consistent, and intellectually
honest conclusion, one must use words that have a clear and
unambiguous meaning.

Often lawmakers do not do this. Hence we have very bad
laws that defy logic and common sense, and as a result to a great
deal of harm to individuals and to society as a whole. The only
people benefiting from these laws are prejudiced individuals who
are immune to logic. For example, most drug laws, and almost all
laws pertaining to marijuana are of this type. A more recent
example of the destructive use of language --- calling something
by a different name --- is Credit Default Swaps. These were a
form of insurance. In this case the financial institutions
instead of saying that X is B, said said that X is NOT B. By
calling something that was insurance by a different name, NOT
insurance, they managed to avoid appropriate regulation, and to
eventually create the economic mess in which we find ourselves.

Any definition that includes within itself the use of the
word that it is defining, is automatically suspect, and probably
invalid. There are many ways of defining a vegetable for example,
but you will seldom if ever see a vegetable defined as something
that comes from or is a vegetable

When it comes to human, on the other hand, that concept is
--- well complicated ---. It seems that all definitions contain
the word human, or some synonym such as people. That is, it is
not trivially easy to find a meaningful definition. Here is one
such definition from Kenneth Burke:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definition_of_man.
I am sure that there are others.

When defining a human without using the term human in the
definition one is always defining an adult human. Any other
definition would be unable to distinguish a very young child from
a pathologically hairless primate.

Historically, any definition that does not use the word
human as part of the definition will not define a child except as
some sort of potential human. In fact, historically, the killing
of a child was a crime of property since children and women were
in fact property, not equivalent to any form of homicide.

The point of the above is to point out what is far from
obvious. That is, that without a circular definition, or the kind
of legal fictions in which our representatives, acting as self
ordained gods indulge, one can not logically say that a fetus or a
child is the same thing as a fully realized human being. I used
the term god in the sense that the bible does when referring to an
entity that creates reality by the power of the word. It is
unfortunate that our “public servants” often see themselves as
some form of god, able to define reality by the power of their
written word.

Many who are pro-life cite the laws that state that if a man
harms a woman in such a way as to cause here to abort her fetus,
then he is guilty of a form of homicide. They then go on to claim
that it is a hypocrisy to then allow the woman to terminate the
pregnancy. This line of reasoning is false for the following:

In order to object to dying beyond a very pr imitative
reflexive level exhibited by almost reproducing systems, such a
system must have a concept of death. Any human not yet a capable
of language has no such concept and thus can not object.

The reason that we have laws pertaining to homicide is the
assumption that nobody wants to die. But this presumes an entity
capable of wanting and objecting to dying, either now or sometime
in the future.

The question: Would objected to being aborted? is not
really a question of the same sort as, would have objected to
being killed last week. Many people can make a coherent argument
about the lack of meaning of the first, and yet almost everybody
will say that, yes they would have objected to being killed last
week.

Laws, to have meaning, have to relate to parties who have
an interest in the situation. That is why many lawsuits are
dismissed because the people involved have no standing.

An entity that does not have a comprehension of death can
not have standing in relative law. Person A, can object to a
stranger being killed, because the person doing the killing, may
later kill person A. Laws against all forms of homicide are
relevant to all people who can feel threatened by that. However,
in the case of a mother and fetus, the only entity with standing
is the mother. In a similar manner, a person with severe
neurological deficits and indicating little if any brain activity
has no standing, though his/her family does.

Because of this, it is not logically inconsistent to have
a law that says that it is homicide to cause the termination of a
pregnancy against the mothers will since she is the only one with
standing in the case.

In fact, in reality, a person or what we normally call a human
is NOT a child, and neither one is a fetus. As a society we may or
may not give them the same or similar rights or responsibilities.
Indeed, in different states, the offspring of humans indeed have
rights and responsibilities that vary from state to state for a
given age. But let me restate. When we refer to humans, we are
seldom referring to children or to fetuses. Likewise, when we
refer to children or fetuses, we are NOT referring to humans but
to potential humans.

In addition to the above logic we know the following:

The nature of the adult at age, say 21, indeed even its vary
existence depends on many things. While people who claim to be
pro-life attribute some sort of specialness or sacredness to a
fertilized egg, any basic search will turn up the fact that the
rate of spontaneous abortions, AFTER pregnancy is confirmed,
varies from 12 to 20 percent. Various estimates of spontaneous
abortions that occur before pregnancy is confirmed range up to
twice that. That is, nature concludes that 20% or more of
fertilized eggs are not in any way viable and thus implantation
does not take place, or if it does, it does not last for more than
a couple of weeks.

The point of all of this is to offer clear and convincing
evidence that a fertilized egg is NOT a human. It is, at most a
blueprint for what might, under the right circumstances, with a
little bit of luck, become a human being. Often, 10 to twenty
percent of the time in fact, the fertilized egg does not become a
human but is expelled by the body. Sometimes the badness of the
fertilized egg is not recognized, and what develops is some entity
that will not survive after birth, or if it does survive, will
require very expensive lifelong care.

And here is a good time to note the degree to which those who
torture language by calling a fertilized egg a human, torture it
more by saying that “God does not make mistakes” If a
fertilized egg that is rejected by the mother, or a blob of flesh
without a brain or is in some other way can not survive outside of
the mother is not a mistake, then exactly what is a mistake?

A person can call a fertilized a human on the grounds that it
comes from a human. But lots of things come from humans that are
not human. And of course calling something human because it comes
from a human is a circular definition, which we noted above is a
logical fallacy similar to circular reasoning.

In conclusion, those who put forth the argument of right to
life have no logic, no facts, no biblical scholarship* no biology
and no compassion on their side. They simply want what they want
and are willing to use the power of the state, which includes
killing, to get it.

One final thought on the misuse of words. Fully grown oak trees
are valuable things. Imagine that you had a contract for the
delivery of a dozen Oak trees to your sawmill, and the person to
whom you paid money for those trees showed up with a dozen
seedlings. Or better yet, a bag of Acorns. And then to add insult
to injury stated that under law that all three of these are the
same so that he kept the terms of the contract.

I have no problem with people wanting to give different things
the same legal protections. Peta, for example, wants to give
primates the same legal rights as people in many circumstances.
But they do not do this by telling the lie that primates are the
same as people. Even though evidence would show that, by many
measures, many primates are smarter than many people. This
argument is not about if a fetus should have the same rights as a
30 year old adult human. It is about the factual and logical lies
that the Pro life people cling to that a fetus is the same as an
adult human.

* True believing zealots, immune to logic and reason cite some
of the following

http://www.ccel.us/BiblePassages.html

to prove that a fetus is human. I would like for one of them to
take any of the statements on the above page and apply it to a
spontaneous abortion. Especially a late term spontaneous abortion.
That would surely make for an interesting paper. But these are the
same people who still insist that, according to the bible, some
day in the past, the sun stood still in the sky. This biblical
statement was used for hundreds of years to punish people who put
forth the idea that the earth actually moved about the relatively
stationary sun. It only took the Catholic church 400 years to
admit that error.

A little footnote here on the MISuse of the word proof or
prove. EVIDENCE IS NOT PROOF. Evidence is evidence.

If you would like to comment, please send me an Email ( dpaladin@ix.netcom.com?subject=Life-Choice%20commentary )

Feel free to post links to this, or just take it, in its
entirety and put it in your site with attribution.

I could be wrong about any of this. I am open to logic and
facts that refute any of the above. Please be aware that name
calling is the technique used by people who have neither logic nor
facts on their side. Any editorial contributions are welcome.

A section on consequences. Has anyone thought that if an
abortion is some form of manslaughter, then every spontaneous
abortion must be investigated as a possible homicide? And should
we have some regulation that every woman who travels outside the
country must take a pregnancy test so that her other mommy, the
state, can be sure that she is not leaving the country to commit
murder?

I have an assignment in class; the topic is to be controversial, and I am prochoice, as well.  I read your views, and I am gratefull that the freedoms we have today allows us (women) to be able to speak out. 

 I was recently invited to attend a community prayer vidual. surrounding a clinic, in our community.  These are dear close friends that invited me.  I kindly had to inform them that I do not support their views on this subject.  Like you, I believe that it is not our duty to cast judgement, only provide guidance.  We absolutly need the option of choice to remain available for those that feel this is their only choice.  Otherwise, we could face a harsher and more devastating reality.  Leaving the option open allows  those women to make a decision.  Their own decision with the availability of some guidance.  Reverting back to old ways, back street abortions, will only create more back street murders, and loosing these women forever.    

Meleata,

The goal here at BlogHer is to have respectful dialog. That doesn't mean we can't disagree or do not argue our points of view forcefully. However, shouting (all caps) and calling those who disagree with your point of view criminals is hardly respectful.

I hope that you will read the post and comments rather than simply react to the title and open yourself to understanding where many of us who are pro-choice are coming from and then come back and see if we can find some common ground.

And if you are commenting that I (and others) would consider it a great feat for society when women are supported, educated and empowered so that they never have unwanted pregnancies, their lives are never endangered and are never in a position where they feel they must consider abortion then yes, you are correct, I will be very proud when that day arrives.

Pro-Choice is not necessarily Pro-Abortion, Meleata.  You can be Pro-Choice (legislatively) and Anti-Abortion (morally and in practice.)

Why do you Pro Choice people make it out like you're accomplishing such a great feat for society?  Why in the world are you proud of such a thing?  I truly don't get it.  IT'S MURDER.   IT'S MURDER OF THE COMPLETELY INNOCENT.  IT'S MURDER OF A HUMAN BEING. 

Glad you found this post useful. Thanks for your comments.

i totally messed up. sorry about that!

i didn't scroll down enough

=] 

i loved how into this you are

i'm researching stuff for a speech i have to do in class and its a pro-choice speech. your blog has been a life saver! it defiantly helped me in what i needed to say.

this was just too good.

again, thanks for posting something about this!!!! 

i loved how into this you are

i'm researching stuff for a speech i have to do in class and its a pro-choice speech. your blog has been a life saver! it defiantly helped me in what i needed to say.

this was just too good.

again, thanks for posting something about this!!!! 

Thank you for your kind words and for sharing your thoughts and your heart.

You have expressed everything I could have said with eloquence and compassion. My own experiences with infertility, miscarriage, and an unwanted pregnancy have caused me to go back and forth on this issue. But I think, in my heart, I've always been Pro-Choice - and for the exact reasons that you state.

Until we're willing, as human beings, to care for children whose mothers either didn't want them, or couldn't care for them, or whose mothers died at the hands of a back-street abortionist rather than have ANOTHER child, we cannot, as a society, be the reason those children are unfed, unwashed, on the streets.

Thank you for the opportunity to share my own thoughts.

Thank you for sharing your beliefs as well as your belief in love.

1,000% agree with you:

In my opinion, we should be kinder, more understanding and accepting of any woman's story. Period.

Thank you for sharing your story.

Thank you for sharing your beliefs. I rarely discuss the fact that I am a conservative and a very serious Christian and also pro-choice. It's hard to explain, but I'm pro-choice because I believe God gave us free will for a reason. He allows us to make our own choices, and I have no business judging anyone else's choice. Do I want people to have abortions? No. Do I hope that less people have them? Of course. Especially now that I have had children, my perspective has changed about how precious each new life is, and how it can blossom into something so amazing. My children are EVERYTHING to me. But I believe that Jesus taught us that we are ALL flawed, and we can all be forgiven. I'm really in no position to judge someone else's actions, because my own actions are less than perfect. I'm grateful to be forgiven and I try hard every day to forgive and avoid judgment. Thank you for talking about the importance of love. We need to work from a position of love. Let's try to create a situation where more and more women won't ever be in the position of having to make a choice.

Katherine Stone
Postpartum Progress

It wasn't long after my son was born that life circumstances and my ability to handle them did not meet with any kind of a "Oprah Magazine" tidiness. I was an absolute mess. New motherhood was killing me. Postpartum depression was wrecking havoc on me. Insurmountable breastfeeding obstacles turned me into something more soggy than infant rice cereal. I hated motherhood, PPD took over my experience. I was 33.

Somewhere in that period of time, I went to my OB-GYN for my 6 week after delivery follow up and got my new script for birth control. Then, we moved, 1500 miles to Texas. I continued to refill my birth control script. I found a new family physician group in Texas. Birth control scripts were refilled each month. I mostly remembered to take my birth control pill every day. There was not a lot of sex happening in our home. My use of the pill was/is for contraception and a method to regulate my menstrual cycle as it is wacky due to my progesterone deficiency.

Some background is required here. Before I had my son in Feb, 2005, I suffered more than 15 miscarriages Trying to get pregnant and stay pregnant was horrible, unforgiving and filled with sorrow and a divorce from my first husband. My reproductive desires were coupled with intense anxiety when I married my amazing second husband. As t turns out, I was unable to sustain pregnancy due to my progesterone deficiency. Without vaginal progesterone suppositories, as it was explained to me, I was not able to sustain a pregnancy past the first trimester. Oh, when I heard those words, my many miscarriages made so much sense to me then. It did not remove or remedy the past hurt and suffering but it did give me hope. And, hope, (along with progesterone suppositories), presented me with my son in February of 2005.

When my son was about 10 months old and my period did not show up on time, but that never surprised me. I had scheduled an appointment with my OB/GYN because I needed a refill on my birth control (which I was given and continued taking). The resident OB-GYN preformed my well woman exam including a vaginal exam. He declared all was okay and he refilled my birth control script. A few weeks later, I began feeling those "only women know" feelings that I might be pregnant. I went to the drugstore and bought multiple pregnancy tests. Before, I has AWAYS purchased these tests with optimism and hope. It was not so with the purchase of these tests. And, these tests were positive. I was not prepared for nor desired another child. I was sure that if I had another child, it would destroy me. I did not want to be pregnant and I did not want to have another baby.

I have lived on just about every single side of women's reproduction at this point. It is emotional and unforgiving. In my opinion, we should be kinder, more understanding and accepting of any woman's story. Period. Choice is SO important, regardless the age, race or financial disposition of the woman "choosing". Respectful choice is the ideal. In this day and age of choice - women who do "choose" usually face cold, sterile and an unemotional environment. No follow up. No mental wellness follow up. Sigh.

Our country has stopped supporting open and respectful dialogue regarding reproductive education and options for women who are struggling to understand, implement and choose preventative and consequential reproductive decisions. Our country has a deep rooted aversion to condoning "pro-choice" for those women whose "choice" would undeniably and positively change the direction of their lives.

I am tired of arguing for my fundamental right to choose but will continue to do so. I believe, if you don't live in their home, know the physical, financial or emotional circumstances and if you are unwilling to financially and emotionally support the unwanted children and the unwilling mothers, I don't believe you have the right to an opinion, let alone the right to vote on what choice is made.

This country does such a poor job of supporting single and economically disadvantaged mothers. It is one of my greatest wishes that the "pro-life" efforts, energy and funds would focus on the well being and rights of children that currently live.

Erin
ExpectingExecutive ( http://blogspot.expectingexecutive.com )

you may profess any love for me, here. ;-)

I'm beyond flattered and honored and I really appreciate your kindness and support.

I'm honored to have the opportunity to write this piece in companionship with Shannon's.

I respect that you may feel like your perspective might not be pertinent in some ways to this discussion but I think it is critical that men be involved in helping us figure out how we can support and empower women. If we are going to get to that better place we will all - male and female - have to join in walking the path.

Thank you.

It is unfortunate but I believe you are right, Crunchy Carpets

it IS sadly an issue that has to be politicized until people can get past the emotional and religious side of it all.

I'm honored by your comment, thank you.

And I agree completely - I hope perhaps this will inspire respectful conversation beyond BlogHer.

I guess that is my role in life - to be a living, breathing contradiction of sterotypes and conventional wisdom ;-)

Thanks for the Amen!

Maria, I just loved this post and I have to agree with Jim-you and Shannon did fantastic jobs representing your side of a very very heated and complex issue.

strong>Politics & News Contributing Editor
Queen of Spain ( http://queenofspainblog.com/ )

I have loved both of these posts (yours, and Shannon's) for the respectful discussion they have inspired, and for the honest, simple goals of bringing us together without trying to change anyone.

This post, however, just made me love you a little bit more. (And I already sort of loved you. Can I say that here?) ;)

--
Mir Kamin
(BlogHer Mommy & Family contributing editor)

Personal: Woulda Coulda Shoulda ( http://wouldashoulda.com/ )

Having it all with less: Want Not ( http://wantnot.net/ )

I was going to post yesterday on Shannon's pro-life piece but I couldn't bring myself to since I (respectfully) disagree with her.

I've spent 13 years of my life defending (US Army Combat Engineers - hoo yah!) the right of every person in our country to make (and live with) their own choices. I have become fearful that there are people (politicians) here who seriously consider taking away that freedom and forcing their choices on others (the needs of society not withstanding).

I don't believe that the rights of a fetus begin at conception, even if life does, or are more important than the rights of the mother. However I also believe that, being male, my position on the issue is academic at best. Various posts here have shown me that there may arise situations where my position becomes more critical (I don't recall the post but a husband had to choose whether to lose both his wife and her baby).

To me it is much more important that each person be allowed to make their own choice and have healthy, safe, dependable options to carry that choice out. And having a good place to discuss the issue with intelligent people who can present their position helps move the issue along paths that will bring us to a better place, as Maria has so eloquently put. So thank you both, Maria and Shannon, for your posts. :)

Jim Heivilin

In a world where women are still bought and sold.....murdered by husbands and husbands families, where children are still sold into slavery,where birth control is hard to come by depending on the religious views of your pharmacist or care provider, where reproductive issues are still all over the place and controlled more by doctors than the women doing the reproduction.....making abortion illegal would a slippery slope....it IS sadly an issue that has to be politicized until people can get past the emotional and religious side of it all.

I have two children. And have had 3 pregnancies.....while I cannot imagine having an abortion -only because I have not been in those shoes ......I will fight for a woman's right to chose that path....

Look for me at http://crunchycarpets.com or check out the ladies at www.wetcoastwomen.com ( http://www.wetcoastwomen.com )

It's true that many of us have deeply held views and are resistant to change but I believe the communication of those views is absolutely essential if we are ever to reach any sort of compromise or agreement. All of these issues are important, the mother, the ... I can't bring myself to call the fetus a baby, society, etc. Where we place them in relation to each other varies widely but if we don't communicate our beliefs to each other then the situation will remain in the dismal state it's in now and we'll never reach that better place Maria describes.

Jim Heivilin

This was so well-written, I couldn't help but comment to offer you kudos.

Stephanie
http://quirkyblogger.com

Excellent post Maria.

I think it's great how the women of BlogHer can have a dialog like this. You don't find this kind of respect happening anywhere else in the blogosphere...I am very happy (and proud) to be part of the wonderful community of women here.

Contributing Editor Catherine Morgan
CatherineBlogs ( http://www.catherineblogs.com/ ), The Political Voices of Women ( http://politicsanew.com/ ), Care2 Election Blog ( http://www.care2.com/politics/features/ )

Maria, that's what I call common ground! ;)

Shannon @ Rocks In My Dryer
BlogHer Contributing Editor, Mommy and Family
rocksinmydryer.typepad.com
bloggygiveaways.com

Amen. We don't hear that enough in this country!

Wow. I have nothing else to add but thank you.

Except to say thank you, as well, for your kind words and support.

PopConsumer ( http://www.consumerpop.typepad.com/popconsumer )
Beyond Help ( http://mariax.vox.com/ )

Thanks for understanding. :) I always worry that I'm going to come off as uber-argumentative because of the passion I hold for this topic. Thanks for taking the time to listen and understand.

Keep on keepin' on!

-
Jenna
Stop, Drop and Blog ( http://stopdropandblog.com )
Birth/First Parent Blog ( http://birthparents.adoptionblogs.com )
The Chronicles of Munchkin Land ( http://www.thechroniclesofmunchkinland.com )

Of anything new or different to say except Thank You. Now I know exactly where to point people when I need to tell them exactly why I'm pro-choice. I also agree in particular with the section Lisa Stone highlighted - absolutely prime-time podium.

Thank you.
Jill
Writes Like She Talks ( http://www.writeslikeshetalks.com )

I appreciate your thoughtful post, as well. (I didn't try and add my voice to the amazing outpouring of comments on your post - great conversation you've inspired).

I truly believe It is only through dialogue that we will make any progress towards what I believe is the common goal of reducing and ending abortion.

PopConsumer ( http://www.consumerpop.typepad.com/popconsumer )
Beyond Help ( http://mariax.vox.com/ )

Thanks, dawn224!

PopConsumer ( http://consumerpop.typepad.com/popconsumer )
Beyond Help ( http://mariax.vox.com/ )

A commenter at my post earlier today wondered if there was really any point in having this discussion, since so many of us aren't going to change our deeply-held views. But the dialogue matters, and I do think it's important to hear other views.

Clearly, you put great thought into your post, Maria. Thank you for speaking your mind.

Shannon @ Rocks In My Dryer
BlogHer Contributing Editor, Mommy and Family
rocksinmydryer.typepad.com
bloggygiveaways.com

Thoughtfully and rationally stated : )

(and long live the ecusa!)

I appreciate your kind words.

PopConsumer ( http://consumerpop.typepad.com/popconsumer )
Beyond Help ( http://mariax.vox.com/ )

What a well reasoned, well stated and thorough statement! It was a pleasure to read.

I'm sorry I took issue with one little set of words that you probably didn't know rub many birth mothers and biological fathers the wrong way.

I really appreciate you sharing your perspective because I did not know and I'm glad you've helped me to better understand.

I used the word "better" because it is the language I've generally seen used by those who argue adoption is an always available alternative to abortion, so that was what was on my mind while composing this piece.

And I'll and that some of my perspective and understanding of adoption's possibilities and pitfalls is that my nephew is adopted. He was abandoned at birth by his drug addicted biological mother whom I doubt was equipped to do anything else but give birth and then leave him. So, I'm very aware that even making a choice to place a child for adoption isn't one that every woman is free to make. He was very fortunate in that he was placed with an incredible foster family and then adopted as an infant into an extended family that continues to love and support him. This is certainly not the case for many if not most black, male drug-exposed abandoned babies. Is his life perfect or pain and difficulty free? Far from it. Is his life good and is it better than a life of foster care or homeless with a drug addict mother? Definitely. And can I say that the life he would have had if he was not adopted is absolutely better than not being born? No, I can't. So just to make my larger point again, that's why I hope we can work together to make that life never be an option or the alternative to abortion.

PopConsumer ( http://www.consumerpop.typepad.com/popconsumer )
Beyond Help ( http://mariax.vox.com/ )

Of note, I am pro-choice and stated why on the previous post regarding this matter. However...

Your point is almost on-mark. So close.

That we recognize that our systems for adoption and foster care are not adequate and if we truly want to ensure that even those women who do not choose abortion and offer their children the hope of a better life through adoption we must work to fix those institutions.

My relinquished daughter does not have a better life. She has a different life than she would have had with me as her everyday mother. You will find many birth mothers, even ones who do not have the same regrets that I have regarding placement, whose children did not have "better" lives. When we try to sell adoption as a "hope of a better life," we are doing a disservice to expectant mothers and fathers considering placement. We should be telling them, so very honestly, that adoptive families divorce, get ridiculously awful illnesses like cancer, experience financial hardship and even die. Just like every other family. They need to understand and digest that information in order to make that fully informed decision. Without that information, regrets are just a realization and revelation away. The "better life" is often a myth for the mother who is simply experiencing an unplanned pregnancy and doesn't know if she can be a good parent. (Also be aware that the average age of a mother who places her child for adoption is not a teen but a woman in her early twenties.)

It's little issues like this that further prove how ingrained adoption is as a "good answer to a bad problem" in our society. We're not talking about just changing the structure of the foster and adoption systems (which is also necessary in these reform movements!). We're talking about changing our country's minds about what single motherhood is, what a birth mother is and why both are okay. The stigmas that follow both are ridiculous. I am an amazing parent. I would have been to my daughter as well.

Jumping back to the rest of your post? Amazing. I'm sorry I took issue with one little set of words that you probably didn't know rub many birth mothers and biological fathers the wrong way. I wasn't so much ranting at you as I was ranting at a society that refuses to listen to the issues that others like me are experiencing... and others will continue to experience until agencies, attorneys and others are all acting in ethical manners with expectant parents considering adoption. Coercion is still alive and "well" and won't be going away until someone starts holding these groups accountable.

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Jenna
Stop, Drop and Blog ( http://stopdropandblog.com )
Birth/First Parent Blog ( http://birthparents.adoptionblogs.com )
The Chronicles of Munchkin Land ( http://www.thechroniclesofmunchkinland.com )

I too am proud to be associated with this community. Thank you for helping create it and for allowing me the opportunity to participate and share this view and for your kind, supportive words.

PopConsumer ( http://www.consumerpop.typepad.com/popconsumer )
Beyond Help ( http://mariax.vox.com/ )

Thanks laurenbpgh for summing up what I was trying to say so much more succinctly than I.

PopConsumer ( http://www.consumerpop.typepad.com/popconsumer )
Beyond Help ( http://mariax.vox.com/ )

...I would like to see you deliver this speech from a podium, Maria:

What I would love to see is that we focus our energy towards loving women.

Loving them enough to ensure that every woman has sex only when they are fully capable of choosing to do so and fully capable of making choices regarding pregnancy. That no woman has sex because she lacks self esteem, because she thinks it is the only way she will be loved, because she was physically and emotionally abused and is acting out, because she is forced in any way.

That no woman does not use birth control because she cannot buy it, because she cannot afford it, because her partner is controlling and will not allow her to use it or refuses to use it himself. That no woman be forced to give birth when it would risk her life or prevent her from having wanted children in the future. That no woman be faced with the fear that raising a child when she is not equipped with the resources or support to do so will destroy her.

That we try our best to ensure that children are not brought unwanted into a life of poverty, neglect and abuse. That we recognize that most forms of birth control are not 100% perfect and that we support further development of safe, reliable, reversible forms of contraception. That we do not fool ourselves into believing that children born when they are desperately not wanted and because contraception fails are somehow likely to magically grow up healthy, happy and whole and be President someday when they are raised by a parent who tried to prevent their conception because they are aware that they were inadequately equipped to raise them. It could happen but realistically, probably will not.

That we recognize that our systems for adoption and foster care are not adequate and if we truly want to ensure that even those women who do not choose abortion and offer their children the hope of a better life through adoption we must work to fix those institutions.

Amen.

I won't repeat what I said to Shannon ( http://www.blogher.com/why-im-pro-life#comment-356... ), but I can tell you that I am prouder than ever to be associated with this community after reading your post.

Thank you.

Lisa Stone
BlogHer Co-founder ( http://www.blogher.com/member/lisa-stone )
Surfette ( http://surfette.typepad.com )

I think your conclusion in this post is right on the money. Abortion is a symptom, not a disease. It's a symptom of sex ed programs that are inadequate, of poverty, of disintegrating restraint in the media. If we work together to fix those problems - which I think almost everyone, regardless of abortion-specific views, can agree are problems - then I bet we would see significant decline in the need to discuss the legality of abortion.

I'm sorry I made you cry, but not - you know? Thanks for the kind words.

PopConsumer ( http://www.consumerpop.typepad.com/popconsumer )
Beyond Help ( http://mariax.vox.com/ )